Men talking about women

[ThaWholigan]

The language and the "dissection" of her body is the part I don't personally care for. If he had said "she's overweight, but her overall figure is pretty nice" that's a subtle way of referencing her curves without carving her up like a turkey. The use of "rack" is what really got under my skin, and the unnecessary mention of it.

 

"She's overweight but her overall figure is pretty nice" is a bit of an oxymoron, but such is the nature of ambiguity. It doesn't sound like a description at all. Which is why I propose we just don't describe it.

[oaks]

The language and the "dissection" of her body is the part I don't personally care for. If he had said "she's overweight, but her overall figure is pretty nice" that's a subtle way of referencing her curves without carving her up like a turkey. The use of "rack" is what really got under my skin, and the unnecessary mention of it.

 

hmm. Okay.

[verhrzn]

Maybe, but on this point the poster was talking about a part of her physical appearance that he did like - her nice rack - not a part that he didn't like your example of a microscopic penis. I can see plenty of reasons for bland or neutral or tasteful language in rejections, but that's not what we're talking about here... he wasn't talking to her, and he liked her nice rack. erm, I mean breasts, obviously. not rack.

 

He was still carving her up and using objectifying language while doing it. It just comes down to.... it's not respectful. It wasn't NECESSARY for him to describe either her boobs or her "rack." Saying "rack" was just extra offensive.

 

You have to understand.... some women (not all women, but some) see these comments, hear these comments, and feel objectified. Even if a guy still respects her inside his head, he isn't using respectful language, and he's dividing her up like she's cattle. ("Well, this milk cow is a little too skinny but she's got nice udders.... So sure, I'll buy her.")

 

When women are constantly surrounded by this language and this sort of attitude, it's really starts to get under their skin. If you want to know where DY, and I, get our attitudes about "men all want super models".... THIS is where. This sort of attitude towards women's bodies!

[ThaWholigan]

hmm. Okay.

My exact reaction upon reading .

 

At this point, I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I'm really curious as to why the acceptable answers sound so dead . I guess this is the price for being respectable. I've found my "fine line". Will the rest find theirs?

 

Where I think I am even going to be remotely offensive, I will just not say it. Like the nice boy I am .

[verhrzn]

"She's overweight but her overall figure is pretty nice" is a bit of an oxymoron, but such is the nature of ambiguity. It doesn't sound like a description at all. Which is why I propose we just don't describe it.

 

No, much better to use offensive language and describe her by her body parts. I notice that no where did he say that her PERSONALITY might have been attractive.... No, it was entirely her body. Her "rack."

 

You want women to stop seeing men as superficial? That sort of thread would be a great place to start.

[xxoo]

"She's overweight but her overall figure is pretty nice" is a bit of an oxymoron, but such is the nature of ambiguity. It doesn't sound like a description at all.

 

I agree. That description would just be confusing, and beg a bunch of questions (is her figure nice, or is she overweight?)

 

The term "rack" doesn't bother me. It's crude, but I'm crude with friends, and we use that term. I'm pretty sure my own sister once commented on one of my photos with "nice rack"

[oaks]

You have to understand...

 

I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that.

[xxoo]

You have to understand.... some women (not all women, but some) see these comments, hear these comments, and feel objectified. Even if a guy still respects her inside his head, he isn't using respectful language, and he's dividing her up like she's cattle. ("Well, this milk cow is a little too skinny but she's got nice udders.... So sure, I'll buy her.")

 

Ok, some women feel objectified.

 

Does that make what he said wrong?

[oaks]

No, much better to use offensive language and describe her by her body parts. I notice that no where did he say that her PERSONALITY might have been attractive.... No, it was entirely her body. Her "rack."

 

The context was one of meeting someone who hadn't posted a full-body photo. Her personality wasn't at issue (although I think I recall that they had an agreeable exchange of messages prior to meeting, and that he enjoyed the date). Her body was, consequently, a relevant topic of discussion regarding the success of the date.

[verhrzn]

I agree. That description would just be confusing, and beg a bunch of questions (is her figure nice, or is she overweight?)

 

The term "rack" doesn't bother me. It's crude, but I'm crude with friends, and we use that term. I'm pretty sure my own sister once commented on one of my photos with "nice rack"

 

But that's speaking among friends, not to a stranger. I am crass with my friends as well because I have a history with them where I know what offends them and what doesn't. If you were at a place full of strangers, like a restaurant, would you be saying "nice rack" at the top of your lungs?

 

This may be the tricky thing about the Internet. It FEELS so anonymous, but it's still full of people. Strangers, in effect. None of you know me in real life. Were you to pass me on the street, you'd never know it. AND this is a community filled with both regulars and strangers.

 

So my question is, what is the level of manners? Of decorum? Do we use respectful language, the kind of baseline we would use with strangers, or are we crass like we would be among friends?

 

The Internet is full of seedy, disgusting places, places I would never want to be party to (like certain subthreads of Reddit.) In some ways, the Internet seems to encourage seediness, because we never have to experience, in person, the social discomfort we give other people. So does that mean we should be more, or less, careful in these sorts of environments?

 

In a weird way, if our "real" identities were linked up with our accounts, I think I'd feel a little better about a lot of the discussions we have on forums like this. Sometimes it seems like knowing the people on the other end of the discussion, be able to SEE them and have a real sense of them, would be beneficial, so people would have a better sense of when the use of "rack" was appropriate, and when it was not.

[ThaWholigan]

I agree. That description would just be confusing, and beg a bunch of questions (is her figure nice, or is she overweight?)

 

It's the kind of wordplay that makes a lot of men seem wishy-washy - to women no less . Nonetheless, this is a forum, and not a dating scenario, so adhering to it is not exactly going to hurt anybody - it will probably mildly irritate me but nothing more.

 

The term "rack" doesn't bother me. It's crude, but I'm crude with friends, and we use that term. I'm pretty sure my own sister once commented on one of my photos with "nice rack"

 

I'm actually bothered that the word "rack" is even remotely offensive - even more bothered that anyone actually uses that word . But hey whatever - lets be PC and tone it down.

[verhrzn]

The context was one of meeting someone who hadn't posted a full-body photo. Her personality wasn't at issue (although I think I recall that they had an agreeable exchange of messages prior to meeting, and that he enjoyed the date). Her body was, consequently, a relevant topic of discussion regarding the success of the date.

 

Why does her body need to be carved up? Why did he focus on her chest, instead of some other part of her? Why couldn't he have discussed it in a more respectful way? Her WEIGHT was at issue, but you can discuss your attraction to someone without going into detail about all the things you like/don't like on them.

 

Ok, some women feel objectified.

 

Does that make what he said wrong?

 

Wrong is a sticky word. I'd say "inappropriate." Like I said in my previous post, if you wouldn't say it in polite society, or you wouldn't say it to someone's face, maybe you shouldn't say it here either.

 

The Internet is slowly becoming a dark, twisted place where people spill out all of their venom and worse thoughts with the safety of anonymity. I'm just not sure we should encourage it.

[oaks]

I'm actually bothered that the word "rack" is even remotely offensive - even more bothered that anyone actually uses that word . But hey whatever - lets be PC and tone it down.

 

Perhaps the overweight woman had great décolletage.

[ThaWholigan]

Wrong is a sticky word. I'd say "inappropriate." Like I said in my previous post, if you wouldn't say it in polite society, or you wouldn't say it to someone's face, maybe you shouldn't say it here either.

 

The Internet is slowly becoming a dark, twisted place where people spill out all of their venom and worse thoughts with the safety of anonymity. I'm just not sure we should encourage it.

 

The internet was always that way .

 

I don't think we should "encourage" it, but at the same time, I shudder to think what would happen if that "venom and worse thoughts" didn't have a channel and stayed bottled.

 

Mind you, you can just buy a diary I suppose, or a private blog . Like Udolipixie's blog :lmao:

[ThaWholigan]

Perhaps the overweight woman had great décolletage.

 

F*ck it, let's be Shakespearean about it .

[xxoo]

But that's speaking among friends, not to a stranger. I am crass with my friends as well because I have a history with them where I know what offends them and what doesn't. If you were at a place full of strangers, like a restaurant, would you be saying "nice rack" at the top of your lungs?

 

It is not analogous to saying at the top of your lungs in a restaurant, where people would not expect to hear such language, or such a conversation. On a thread about OLD and full body shots, the readers have some forewarning that bodies will be discussed.

[xxoo]

Why does her body need to be carved up? Why did he focus on her chest, instead of some other part of her?

 

IIRC, he did also say she had a pretty face.

[ThaWholigan]

Ugh. Fine, whatever, I give up. I have been trying to explain for pages and pages. You f*ckers says whatever you want, apparently us women are just cattle. Check and double check.

 

God, every time I think "hey men aren't so bad," I come back to this forum and realize that as a gender, you're just superficial, entitled bullies.

 

See, this is more overreacting

 

No, really, let's just not talk about bodies. There is to be no mention of boobs, ass and legs. Or faces. We are only allowed to reference a woman's character/personality traits, reference weight in passing and any mention of body parts or type is offensive.

 

By the same token, 6 packs, heights and monetary income are also deemed offensive by bitter male posters, and thus we are not allowed to talk about it.

 

*see, I can overreact too, ner-ner-ner-ner-ner

 

Nobody has even dismissed your arguments or ignored them, so I don't know what that was all about.

Edited September 22, 2012 by ThaWholigan

[oaks]

Why does her body need to be carved up? Why did he focus on her chest, instead of some other part of her?

 

Who knows. Perhaps because he liked that part. Perhaps because it stood out. Perhaps, having offered a description of what he discovered that he didn't like he sought to apply some balance by making mention of something that he did like.

 

Why couldn't he have discussed it in a more respectful way? Her WEIGHT was at issue, but you can discuss your attraction to someone without going into detail about all the things you like/don't like on them.

 

To that question, I don't know. Maybe he wanted to be specific in describing what he experienced and what he liked and didn't like. Perhaps he wasn't expecting "she had a nice rack" (or whatever the exact phrase was - I didn't check) to be so offensive to you (and others). To me it seems crude, but not particularly vulgar, so I'm also a little surprised at the reaction to the phrase... (but only a little - I know that people can be offended by pretty much anything).

 

Yes, you can discuss things in a different, anodyne, way. He chose to be specific, and used a term which you find offensive.

[verhrzn]

Yeah, yeah, who cares what I, or women in general, find offense. What matters is that the guy, some stranger on the Internet, got to discuss his date's body in detail to a bunch of people who didn't know her using offensive language. Because that's RESPECTFUL.

 

But who cares about my feelings? Or women's feelings? Or how this sort of language and discussion encourages a culture of objectifying women's bodies and thus increasing the chances of sexual harassment?

 

You guys aren't even TRYING to see my side. You've done nothing but argue this entire f*cking thread, or make remarks about "Poor me, I have to use respectful language, POOR entitled me!" F*ck it. I'm out.

[verhrzn]

But since nobody will listen to me, probably because I'm a fat ugly b*tch with a "fragile psyche," maybe you'll listen to a man:

 

[oaks]

Ugh. Fine, whatever, I give up. I have been trying to explain for pages and pages. You f*ckers says whatever you want, apparently us women are just cattle. Check and double check.

 

God, every time I think "hey men aren't so bad," I come back to this forum and realize that as a gender, you're just superficial, entitled bullies.

 

We're "f*ckers" and "bullies"? It's unlike you to call names like this, V.

[ThaWholigan]

Yeah, yeah, who cares what I, or women in general, find offense. What matters is that the guy, some stranger on the Internet, got to discuss his date's body in detail to a bunch of people who didn't know her using offensive language. Because that's RESPECTFUL.

 

If he knew there would be such offense, he probably wouldn't have posted it. How was he to know?

 

Hell, if I knew it was so offensive, I probably wouldn't have made this thread. I'm glad I made it now, because I know it's offensive now.

 

But who cares about my feelings? Or women's feelings? Or how this sort of language and discussion encourages a culture of objectifying women's bodies and thus increasing the chances of sexual harassment?

 

I've already proposed a solution - stop talking about it. If that's not in thought of your feelings I don't know what is.

 

You guys aren't even TRYING to see my side. You've done nothing but argue this entire f*cking thread, or make remarks about "Poor me, I have to use respectful language, POOR entitled me!" F*ck it. I'm out.

 

Yes we f*cking have, don't give me that sh*t. I've done NOTHING BUT TRY TO UNDERSTAND this entire thread. Even though I think it's stupid, I have enough respect to understand and to not do it. Is that not good enough?

[january2011]

Anyone care to give a summary of what just happened in the last 10 or so pages?

 

At first I thought that ThaWholigan had conceded about 20 pages back and then I thought Imajerk pretty much nailed it and everyone was friends again.

 

My read of it is that men like to talk about women's bodies. Some women said that they don't like that. And some guys conceded that they will try to be more respectful in the future. No? Why are we now swearing at each other?

[oaks]

Anyone care to give a summary of what just happened in the last 10 or so pages?

 

V went off on one.