Men talking about women

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Well perfect the are of discussing it then and not ask men to change habits for your own personal benefit or insecurity.

 

Often in relationships between men and women, there is a learning curve on both sides. A learning curve that can enable men and women to understand each other better and relate to one another on a different level independent of either one of our most selfish of needs. This has nothing to do with making people "change their habits for another's personal benefit" or "insecurity". In life, people accumulate all kinds of skills in how to interact with others. This is generally a positive. Because the world is usually made up of so much more then ourselves. I know that there are skills I have developed that have helped me better interact with men. When I was younger I was much more selfish and center focused around myself and what I would need from relationships with men. At the time, I didn't realize that I was being selfish. I just didn't really think as much about what men would need or how they wanted to be treated different from myself. But through talking with men, reading information and putting this information to practice, it has improved my relationships with men because I learned skills that helped me interact with men better. And because of these skills and improved relationships, I got something valuable in return and realized I LIKED being able to give something of myself and change my behavior to treat other people how they wanted to be treated. I first started these little "tricks" on my male family members, like my Dad and brother. When I responded differently to them, they responded differently to me and we were able to have a deeper relationship. I am far from perfect and still have a hard time with men and relating to them or understanding them but I have come a long way from when I was younger. I don't consider this a matter of my "habits" being forced to change, although I don't see what is so terrible about changing habits. I see this is a personal growth and development to my character that enabled me to see other people and their needs as being worthy and important to meet, not just my own. And I learned that I liked giving those things. This is how relationships are built upon. When I was more stubborn and lacked understanding of men, my relationships where a lot more rocky and difficult.

[Woggle]

I hate it when women are blamed for being raped because if a man is going to rape what a woman is wearing and anything else has nothing to do with it. It is about violence towards a woman.

[EasyHeart]

I've been called "sexy" for something like twenty-five years, and it's mainly brought me trouble - I don't even see this supposed sexiness, most of the time. I don't appreciate being ogled and having things yelled at me about my body, and what someone would like to do with it. I don't dress in a way that should attract attention, and it has still happened. Apparently, I have a "sassy little walk", so I guess I have to watch that, as well. The attention freaked me out so much as a teenager, that I even stopped wearing shorts, or skirts above the knee, I stopped swimming.

It's not your fault. Every Aries is a walking sex-machine.

 

We can't help it. And we can't turn it off.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Sure I called you a lackey. Big whoop. "Lackey" isn't an insult. The type of nonsense being spewed earlier in this thread was, however.

 

 

Clean up in Aisle One...Calling Aisle One..Someone just dropped a big pile of poo in Aisle One......

 

Oh cut the bullcrap BigQuestion. A "lackey" means someone's "follower" or "servert". Look the word up. If you think calling someone a "follower" or a "servert" isn't an insult then I have no clue where you grew up but where I grew up, that wouldn't fly.

 

Now personally I don't believe for one minute you don't think that word isn't offensive. At least own your own words instead of your double back track back talk nonsense you currently are engaging in. No one calls someone else a "lackey" without trying to be offensive.

 

Could you elaborate on what nonsense that was being spread earlier that you found offensive? Was I part of that conversation? Did I say anything about men being rapists? I certainly don't remember that.

 

You two are cut from the same cloth: the female version of the LS beta male troupe. You hold views that I could see myself supporting to some extent or another, but the dogmatic attitude you take to expressing them destroys your message for everyone but those equally as disillusioned as you.

 

V and I may have similar views on SOME things but that in no way insinuates that I follow her or she follows me. I also have disagreed alot with V in past discussions and some of her comments here. So no, we aren't cut from the same cloth. We are two seperate individuals with seperate minds and seperate opinions that have regulary been expressed here but who *you* lumped together because you didn't want to take the time to distinguish us from one another before you swooped into this thread with offended outrage.

 

Whether someone else expresses a dogmatic attitude or not, it should in reality have no baring on your own thoughts or what you express. If you are letting yourself be influenced by what you perceived to be my or V's thoughts (which you haven't even fully gotten right) that is something you need to deal with on your own. You understand where each of us may be coming from on some level yet you purposely attempt to make it both mine and her fault on why you don't freely express that. That is messed up Dude. It's not our fault if you don't want to stand up for what you really believe in no matter how you perceive either of us acting.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I dont think women understand how powerful the male sex drive is especially for us with a lot of testosterone

 

It takes alot to keeping it in our pants sometimes:laugh: and sometimes u just want to let the poison out and release:)

 

Steve, I probably don't fully understand how powerful the male sex drive is. But then it's probably fair to say that you and other men don't understand how difficult it is living in a world where your body, and the bodies of other women, are always on the table for discussion and judgement.

 

Is it really fair to say that how men talk about women is okay because men are powerfully horny?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

that should be all that needs to be said people can do and act as they please the language police can compalin all they want its not gonna change anyhting u cant control people

 

I agree you can't control people. But I expressed a few times now ways that I learned to relate to men better that was baout changing my habits to better relate to them and it was for the better. The better for me and for the men in my life. What some people are seeing as "policing" is simply a matter of growing and developing as a person and learning how to relate to other people other then yourself. I certainly experienced this in my personal life. As I am sure many other people have. I don't consider it "policing" because I got better at responding to men differently and giving them more of how they wanted to be treated. Do you?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Yeah, you certainly helped the dialogue along by engaging in petty insults.

 

Like you did when you called another poster Lackey and you blamed two posters for how you respond or don't respond.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Thanks for being patronising, I didn't bother reading the rest because you are not a poster whose opinion matters to me the slightest.

 

I honestly wasn't trying to be patronising. I thought your response was the over simplified answer. I responded by telling you why that doesn't always work. I think my points where well made. I'm not sure why it's okay for you to say things like "don't be in relationships like that..simple"...or something to that affect and that's okay and what..not patronizing to tell other people that things are actually "simple"?

 

 

What I was trying to tell you was that you hijacked my comment that I had made to someone else's posts and you responded as if it had related to yours. It didn't.

 

I don't usually read your posts because I find them neurotic, offensive and often irrelevant.

 

I hijacked your comment? I responded to it but how did I hijack it? Didn't you post a comment to be part of a conversation? A conversation I am sure you knew some would disagree and some wouldn't?

 

Not sure the point of your personal shots since I didn't make any personal shots toward you.

 

You are a very negative person who tries to suck positivity out of anyone else just because you prefer to sit in front of a keyboard every night with nothing else to do. Some of us have a life and some of us actually do appreciate men. Some of us are even able to view them as individuals! Imagine!

 

You should keep better tabs on me! I haven't posted regularly in a couple weeks. I have been pretty busy lately. *shrug* I also wouldn't exactly say you display lots of positivity on the board. But that's neither here nore there.

 

I would very much appreciate it if you ignored me from now on and didn't try to suck me into your defeatist, negative, sad arguments.

 

I don't really feel a need to ignore you. I also naturally will respond when I think I am getting wrongly attacked. Which I think you are engaging in right now. But I have seen this beahavior from you before so I don't take as much stock in it as I once might have.

 

 

Wanted to get this off my chest for ages and was doing my best not to say anyting for months until you started bugging me.

 

Leave me alone please. Thank you.

 

I started bugging you because I responded to one comment you made?

 

You are free not to respond if I bug you that much but you said something in response to my post. If you are free to respond to my posts, then aren't I free to do the same? I believe so.

[Woggle]

I agree that some decorum is a good thing but I think we are seeing the backlash against a few decades of political correctness where men have told over and over again to censor ourselves and be as polite as possible. This is a good thing but then we watch how men who listened strike out again and again with women while men who still act as piggish as ever get all the attention and many men are just throwing their hands up and saying the hell with it.

 

Political correctness has turned many men into something that many women are completely unattracted to so many are just doing what the hell we want since it seems we are damned if we do and damned if we dont'. When you can't win no matter what might as well just be you truly are.

[ThaWholigan]

Wholigan, what was the hurtful part? I think I missed something.

 

Let's see:

 

The part where us talking about women's bodies was described as a facilitator to violence against women.

 

The part where we were called "bullies" and "objectifying a**holes" when the majority of the men in this thread are far from any of those things.

 

The part where we were accused of not being understanding.

[LittlePrince]

Incorrect. It is used as a weapon during wars for example. It sounds like you need to read up on the psyche of your own sex.

If rape was solely about power or to be used as a weapon then men would only rape men. There would be no point in raping women. Except there is since the primary purpose of sex no matter the form is to satisfy the reproductive instinct. Humans are hardly the only species who rapes and they aren't even one of the species who rapes the most.

[Woggle]

If rape was solely about power or to be used as a weapon then men would only rape men. There would be no point in raping women. Except there is since the primary purpose of sex no matter the form is to satisfy the reproductive instinct. Humans are hardly the only species who rapes and they aren't even one of the species who rapes the most.

 

Men who rape women want to hurt women. When men want to hurt they just beat the crap out of them except for in prison where rape is used as form of showing power.

[LittlePrince]

Because clearly your word is worth more than hundreds of psychoanalysis studies into the history and psyche of actual rapists, amirite?

Psychology and psychiatry are more ideology and religion than science dictated more by mores and politics than a proper scientific method.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Let's see:

 

The part where us talking about women's bodies was described as a facilitator to violence against women.

 

The part where we were called "bullies" and "objectifying a**holes" when the majority of the men in this thread are far from any of those things.

 

The part where we were accused of not being understanding.

 

I think some guys in this thread aren't understanding and I think some guys in this thread ARE understanding. Such as you and ImAJerk and a few other guys I am not mentioning right now. I think that women DO and easily can feel bullied about comments regarding their bodies and there is a tone here that women need to accept how men treat and talk about them because men are very sexually driven. That has been part of the discussion.

 

I don't think talking about women's bodies is always a facilitator in violence against women but it can be. Is that such a bad thing to say? When women are objectified, they are seen as less human and when they are seen as less human, there are ways they are treated that isn't very respectful. This could possibly lead to violence in some cases. Such as a man freely smacking or grabbing a woman's body because he feels entitled to it.

 

A few years ago at New York Jets stadium, there was a section, I think section D, where men would stand around outside near the consession stands and watch women come up and down the ramps or stairs and scream things at them and harress them. Women by themselves, women with kids, women with other men. Sometimes they would even throw things at the women. This went on apparently for a long time and the security and other people at the stadium never said anything about it until women began complaining about it. To me, this is a form of violence against women.

 

Even longer ago there was a group of men, a mob mentality developed, that was harressing women walking through Central Park and some women where rapped, some where doused with water and others where groped and man-handled.

 

Are all cases of men talking about women's bodies going to lead to violence? Most certainly not. But the possiblity that sometimes that happens still exists. When men look at women as more objects that bring him pleasure then a person, it changes the way that man treats her sometimes. That's a reality we need to be honest about. That's areality that a lot of women are saying they experienced and have seen other women experience. I know that some of that is dark and ugly and not always positive toward men, but it's something a lot of women experience. Myself included. Does that mean that all men or most men are horrible people that are going to rape or harress women? No. But I have had it happen to me on varying scales and clearly other women have as well.

[LittlePrince]

Men who rape women want to hurt women.

False. It has been found men who rape typically use only as much force as they need in order to have sex.

[Els]

Psychology and psychiatry are more ideology and religion than science dictated more by mores and politics than a proper scientific method.

 

So, pray tell, what 'scientific methods' are you using to attain your conclusions?

[Els]

False. It has been found men who rape typically use only as much force as they need in order to have sex.

 

Are you kidding me? So false I don't even know which planet you've been living on. The amount of force used in rape varies from minimal to sadistic torture to death, depending on the psyche of the rapist and his reasons.

[Emilia]

False. It has been found men who rape typically use only as much force as they need in order to have sex.

 

I thought that's what prostitution was for?

 

I'm sure you won't mind quoting your source. This 'gentle' rape article should be interesting.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Emilia

[William]

Rather than try to unwind the mess this thread has become in the last 80 posts or so, I'll just close it up. The talking about women subject has been sufficiently explored. Thanks.