To go NC or not to go NC?

[whichwayisup]

but he was bound and determined to not do anything that would negatively affect his child

 

Yet having affair(s) obviously has taken their toll. He may not want to bust up his family unit as one, but if has mentally checked out, is having affairs, not home as often as he should be, expelling energy and money outside of the home and not focussed on his child, not spending more time as a family unit, then this is about his own guilt..not what is best for his kid. Many kids do okay with both parents co parenting together yet living separately. Sure it is a hard adjustment but two good parents will work together and do all they can to make it work and be fair.

 

He's had one foot out the door (hasn't he moved out, moved back in, moved out, moved back in) for a while and I'm sure their child has noticed the changes going on, let alone having to deal with a crazy exOW bunny boiler..

[whichwayisup]

Sorry AR, there's a good possibility I'm slightly mixing you up with another poster and her details of her affair with her MM. Plus it's 2am..

 

Basically just shield your heart. Don't get sucked in, dragged into his ending of his marriage. What if in 2 weeks from now his wife wakes up and says she wants to try to fix things and do counseling? Never say never..He could easily change his mind.

[AnotherRound]

And in all that unhappiness HE never INITIATED a divorce... ?

 

No, he didn't. He brought up divorce, and again, she refused to discuss it.

 

I think that people aren't understanding how much his stbxw truly avoids discussing ANYTHING here. I know it sounds weird, it IS weird. I've never understood it, and know from others that she IS this way. It's an odd defense mechanism that she has always had, even prior to him apparently. It's a noncommunicative style that I've never seen in anyone, at least not to this level.

 

I don't know how anyone could make decisions for the relationship when dealing with someone like this. When you aren't getting ANY feedback or responses at all (other than weird little cliches or maybes or i don't knows), it would be very difficult to decide what to do bc you would have NO idea what the other person wants or thinks or feels. None.

 

I think that was his struggle. That she wasn't giving him anything to go on at all about where she was, or what she wanted. And, had they not had the child together, I think it would have ended long ago, bc he would have had no reason to stay. I don't know, I've NEVER understood their marriage, it has always struck me as odd (and many others in town who have commented on the oddness of it all).

[Tenacity]

Thanks. I think I've asked twice (out of a few hundred posts) if someone read my posts - both times I asked, it was sincere as it appeared that they were not understanding the situation. I do agree with your points, IF he had been back and forth more.

 

And, I do NOT want him to end up with me. I am being sincere when I say that I want him to end up where he wants to be - even if it is NOT with me. Trust me, I am not chasing this relationship, as I do realize it is going to be a lot of work, and I'm not sure I have the strength or the energy to put into it (and sometimes not even sure that I want to).

 

I'm just trying to get a good idea of what I'm dealing with, and where he is and where I am, so that I can make good decisions. My decision may be to not have a relationship with him - that is a very real possibility right now, and my decision is much dependent on what he does next, how he handles things, etc.

 

I do want him to consider his stbxw's feelings re me. I think that shows progress in that prior, he did NOT care how she felt bc they were so resentful of one another. I respect that he isn't wanting to hurt her or make her feel more insecure right now. They have a child together, and that is true whether they are together or not, so respecting each other (finally!) isn't a bad thing in my mind.

 

So, thanks for the response. I don't disagree with you, I just think that you are missing some key things in my story that I would consider important factors in determining an "outcome". No big deal, I appreciate your response, and will take your points into consideration.

 

And again, I am sorry that you had a bad situation. That is part of my fear, reinvesting to the level that if we didn't work out, that I would be heartbroken again - whether he left me to be with the stbxw or someone else, wouldn't really matter my feelings.

 

I've read all your posts now and I don't think I'm missing any key things. My response hasn't changed. I know it seems like your personal situation is totally different from that of most people here - that is something I felt strongly when first coming on this site years ago - but I learned that my situation really wasn't special or different.

 

There is no threshold for "more" vs less "back and forth" about his divorce. Just my opinion.

 

I read now that there is another OW. Wow. Run, don't walk.

[2sunny]

I think the judgment comes in thinking people shouldn't divorce. He bought in to that lie. I did too for many years. I don't believe that nymore.

 

And in most states - when a dad ASKS for 50% custody - most courts grant it when asked. Kids benefit from both parents. I think that was another fallacy he presented.

 

He believed lies he was told... But it gave him good reason to keep cheating.

 

Divorcing isn't necessarily a bad thing - I feel freedom now. I wish I hadn't believed in not divorcing. I wasted 23 years on that theory.

 

Life is too short to ever settle.

 

He seems to live in fear... Fear of taking charge of his life! He leaves all the moves and action on his wife = who he also blames for HIS unhappiness. How convenient for HIM.

 

I can't see how he could be a healthy choice for YOU. You seem light years ahead of his emotionally stunted self.

[AnotherRound]

Yet having affair(s) obviously has taken their toll. He may not want to bust up his family unit as one, but if has mentally checked out, is having affairs, not home as often as he should be, expelling energy and money outside of the home and not focussed on his child, not spending more time as a family unit, then this is about his own guilt..not what is best for his kid. Many kids do okay with both parents co parenting together yet living separately. Sure it is a hard adjustment but two good parents will work together and do all they can to make it work and be fair.

 

He's had one foot out the door (hasn't he moved out, moved back in, moved out, moved back in) for a while and I'm sure their child has noticed the changes going on, let alone having to deal with a crazy exOW bunny boiler..

 

 

I know... I told him that about kids all those years (I come from divorced parents, and was ecstatic when they divorced bc they were TERRIBLE together), but he just didn't believe me. And there may have been some guilt in that he might have felt like there WAS a way to get through to his stbxw and he just wasn't getting it. I do think he tried, and she maybe even tried, but I think they married for the wrong reasons (expectations of those around them), and that it was set up for failure from the start. Neither of them's fault, imo.

 

And yes, he has had one foot out the door, but no he hasn't moved back and forth. He has been moved out since February, and is maintaining his own home across town. And yes, he has talked with his child, and has been surprised at how much his child was noticing (I told him this for years!). Also, yes, the other OW made scenes in front of the child, and said way more in front of the child than ever should have been said with a child present. She also, apparently, was showing up at the child's school to stalk them as they picked him up and dropped him off. It was some weird stuff, and I heard about it from several people. She apparently made quite the scenes in several places around our small town (and she is in her mid 50s!!!!).

[Summer Breeze]

Of course he knew you would be the only one to end it - that's the way he operates.

 

I guess I'm good with the fact he 'operates' that way and the end of the A was left to me.

[AnotherRound]

I've read all your posts now and I don't think I'm missing any key things. My response hasn't changed. I know it seems like your personal situation is totally different from that of most people here - that is something I felt strongly when first coming on this site years ago - but I learned that my situation really wasn't special or different.

 

There is no threshold for "more" vs less "back and forth" about his divorce. Just my opinion.

 

I read now that there is another OW. Wow. Run, don't walk.

 

Advice taken. But you are missing key things. You just said that there is another OW, and there isn't. And, if you read about how she came about, I think you will see a key element that you missed.

 

No problem, thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

[2sunny]

You are so emotionally invested in this guy - there is no way any new guy you would date stands a fair chance.

 

I vote to go NC with this wussy guy - and get emotionally available for the single more healthy guys you COULD be connecting with.

 

Your MM has too much emotional baggage. It will take a LONG overhaul for him to get a healthy mindset.

[2sunny]

I guess I'm good with the fact he 'operates' that way and the end of the A was left to me.

 

And that same passive man stays married while stating he's miserable. Hard to respect that decision...

[2sunny]

I know... I told him that about kids all those years (I come from divorced parents, and was ecstatic when they divorced bc they were TERRIBLE together), but he just didn't believe me. And there may have been some guilt in that he might have felt like there WAS a way to get through to his stbxw and he just wasn't getting it. I do think he tried, and she maybe even tried, but I think they married for the wrong reasons (expectations of those around them), and that it was set up for failure from the start. Neither of them's fault, imo.

 

And yes, he has had one foot out the door, but no he hasn't moved back and forth. He has been moved out since February, and is maintaining his own home across town. And yes, he has talked with his child, and has been surprised at how much his child was noticing (I told him this for years!). Also, yes, the other OW made scenes in front of the child, and said way more in front of the child than ever should have been said with a child present. She also, apparently, was showing up at the child's school to stalk them as they picked him up and dropped him off. It was some weird stuff, and I heard about it from several people. She apparently made quite the scenes in several places around our small town (and she is in her mid 50s!!!!).

 

Yet he didn't stop her after the first episode?

 

HIS actions put his family in jeopardy... Yet he didn't get a RO right away?

[AnotherRound]

I think the judgment comes in thinking people shouldn't divorce. He bought in to that lie. I did too for many years. I don't believe that nymore.

 

And in most states - when a dad ASKS for 50% custody - most courts grant it when asked. Kids benefit from both parents. I think that was another fallacy he presented.

 

He believed lies he was told... But it gave him good reason to keep cheating.

 

Divorcing isn't necessarily a bad thing - I feel freedom now. I wish I hadn't believed in not divorcing. I wasted 23 years on that theory.

 

Life is too short to ever settle.

 

He seems to live in fear... Fear of taking charge of his life! He leaves all the moves and action on his wife = who he also blames for HIS unhappiness. How convenient for HIM.

 

I can't see how he could be a healthy choice for YOU. You seem light years ahead of his emotionally stunted self.

 

Agreed. Many people buy into that no divorcing thing. I used to also - I only stayed briefly though, and thankfully, had no children. And it was the BEST thing I ever did for myself, leaving that relationship/marriage. And I tried to tell him that his child would be better served to have two happy parents in functioning relationships, than two miserable parents who can only model a broken relationship for him. He just never agreed with me, and I still think he is now waiting for his child to start exhibiting some odd behaviors or something bc of the divorce. Truth is, the child is adjusting extremely well, and hopefully, over time, exMM will see that it didn't ruin his child's life.

 

In my state, fathers often do not get 50% when it comes to parenting time. It's unfortunate, but I live in the bible belt, where many still believe that women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen - and should shoulder most of the parenting time. We actually have a mutual friend who is in the process of a divorce and is a wonderful father to his two children, and the courts are attempting to get him to settle for 25% parenting time. He has an attorney, and is fighting it, but it appears that he is not going to win, and he WAS the primary support giver in the home prior to the divorce. So, sometimes, it does work out unfairly, and that is a fear of exMMs for sure. Like I said, thankfully, he and stbxw are getting along well and are sharing their time well, even without any type of legal paper work as of yet. So, at least that.

 

I have thought of that. About him not making decisions about the divorce (previously) bc of not wanting responsibility for "breaking up the family". But I honestly believe that it was more about the effects on his child, or the reactions of his family due to them not believing in divorce. They are pretty religious (he isn't as much so) and they just simply do not believe in divorce (neither does his stbxw's family, as her parents have an abusive relationship and are LT married, and will never get divorced due to their beliefs).

 

I agree, I have never thought that someone should settle or stay in any relationship if it isn't adding to their life, or healthy. But, not everyone thinks like that, so I try not to judge. And honestly, I think the ONLY reason that the stbxw filed for the divorce is bc OTHER people found out and knew (thanks to the other OW) and she felt like she had to do something at that point, as others were judging her and expecting her to react. Again, it was/is dysfunctional, but for their own reasons, they both stayed. Trust me, he and I have had many discussions about it over the years where I expressed my opinions (and my professional knowledge) in an effort to help him see it more realistically (that divorce was NOT the end of the world, and it wasn't going to make his child become a serial killer). He just didn't believe me...

 

So, I get what you are saying. And I probably do have a higher EQ than him. I am not sure what I want to do. I'm not sure if I want to try or not. I go back and forth in my own head. It's a decision I will have to make at some point it appears, but right now, I just feel like I need more information - or something, before I can make a solid decision. I want to be with him in my heart - but in my head, I am not sure it's healthy, or good, or even worth trying. That's why I was contemplating (and trying) the NC... thinking that maybe that is what I needed to do. But, it's obvious that I have some curiosity, and some desire to try - so, I'm just taking it as it comes and hoping for the best, whatever that may be (as in my head, the best doesn't necessarily mean ending up with him).

[Summer Breeze]

And that same passive man stays married while stating he's miserable. Hard to respect that decision...

 

He never stated he was miserable at any time.

 

He left home 4 years after I ended things and he's been moved out for about 10 months. His D is final next month. I do respect that decision. I do not respect the fact he had an A but that's something we'll work on if we move forward together. I do respect that in the time after I left he and she worked hard to make things right and never managed it. I respect the fact that when she admitted in MC that she'd had an A a few years before he and I met, they still continued to try and piece it back together.

[AnotherRound]

Yet he didn't stop her after the first episode?

 

HIS actions put his family in jeopardy... Yet he didn't get a RO right away?

 

No, he didn't get a RO right away. He said that he tried to give her the benefit of the doubt in that she told him that she is Bipolar, and couldn't control it. Then it happened again, and he said he took his stbxw's side bc he saw a "mean streak" in the other OW in that she was simply trying to hurt the stbxw (for whatever reasons). And, she explained the calls bc she was drunk and she promised to stop drinking.

 

I don't know all the details on the new OW, as I prefer not to talk about her much. I'm just waiting for her to show up at my house and make a scene, if she could ever figure out who I am, I'm sure she would. She knew that he had seen someone for 7 years, but he wouldn't tell her who I was (thankfully, lol). I prefer not to have anything to do with her, the less I know, the better - bc I don't want or need the drama that she apparently causes.

 

He said they got the ROs when she showed up at the school the first time, as at that point she was involving the child again. Like I said, I don't know all the details on that, as he and I weren't talking much at all, and when we did, he simply said that she was "prone to tantrums", and I didn't care to hear anymore about her.

 

As far as giving SGs a chance, I do! I have dated several different guys, and one in particular that I REALLY like. I would date him exclusively in a heartbeat! But he has issues with our religious differences (happens a lot here, I'm a minority in not being a christian in the bible belt), and they are important enough to him that he is not willing to be bf/gf and possibly have a family together as he wants his children to be raised by two christians. So, I really have given them a chance, I just have a hard time here meeting people that I have a lot in common with. I grew up in San Diego and Las Vegas, my values and beliefs are not real common here. And I'm not a barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen kind of girl - which is what a lot of men here are looking for. So, I've tried, but short of moving back to the West Coast, I'm not sure what more I could do to broaden my dating pool. I'm open to suggestions on that too! lol

[2sunny]

No, he didn't. He brought up divorce, and again, she refused to discuss it.

 

I think that people aren't understanding how much his stbxw truly avoids discussing ANYTHING here. I know it sounds weird, it IS weird. I've never understood it, and know from others that she IS this way. It's an odd defense mechanism that she has always had, even prior to him apparently. It's a noncommunicative style that I've never seen in anyone, at least not to this level.

 

I don't know how anyone could make decisions for the relationship when dealing with someone like this. When you aren't getting ANY feedback or responses at all (other than weird little cliches or maybes or i don't knows), it would be very difficult to decide what to do bc you would have NO idea what the other person wants or thinks or feels. None.

 

I think that was his struggle. That she wasn't giving him anything to go on at all about where she was, or what she wanted. And, had they not had the child together, I think it would have ended long ago, bc he would have had no reason to stay. I don't know, I've NEVER understood their marriage, it has always struck me as odd (and many others in town who have commented on the oddness of it all).

 

HE knew how HE felt - and HE could have just filed for D! That would have been appropriate action for an unhappy man in a M - but he never did that.

 

Very unhealthy. And EVEN MORE unhealthy that HE blames her for HIS inability to take action.

[2sunny]

No, he didn't get a RO right away. He said that he tried to give her the benefit of the doubt in that she told him that she is Bipolar, and couldn't control it. Then it happened again, and he said he took his stbxw's side bc he saw a "mean streak" in the other OW in that she was simply trying to hurt the stbxw (for whatever reasons). And, she explained the calls bc she was drunk and she promised to stop drinking.

 

I don't know all the details on the new OW, as I prefer not to talk about her much. I'm just waiting for her to show up at my house and make a scene, if she could ever figure out who I am, I'm sure she would. She knew that he had seen someone for 7 years, but he wouldn't tell her who I was (thankfully, lol). I prefer not to have anything to do with her, the less I know, the better - bc I don't want or need the drama that she apparently causes.

 

He said they got the ROs when she showed up at the school the first time, as at that point she was involving the child again. Like I said, I don't know all the details on that, as he and I weren't talking much at all, and when we did, he simply said that she was "prone to tantrums", and I didn't care to hear anymore about her.

 

As far as giving SGs a chance, I do! I have dated several different guys, and one in particular that I REALLY like. I would date him exclusively in a heartbeat! But he has issues with our religious differences (happens a lot here, I'm a minority in not being a christian in the bible belt), and they are important enough to him that he is not willing to be bf/gf and possibly have a family together as he wants his children to be raised by two christians. So, I really have given them a chance, I just have a hard time here meeting people that I have a lot in common with. I grew up in San Diego and Las Vegas, my values and beliefs are not real common here. And I'm not a barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen kind of girl - which is what a lot of men here are looking for. So, I've tried, but short of moving back to the West Coast, I'm not sure what more I could do to broaden my dating pool. I'm open to suggestions on that too! lol

 

Can you move?

[2sunny]

He never stated he was miserable at any time.

 

He left home 4 years after I ended things and he's been moved out for about 10 months. His D is final next month. I do respect that decision. I do not respect the fact he had an A but that's something we'll work on if we move forward together. I do respect that in the time after I left he and she worked hard to make things right and never managed it. I respect the fact that when she admitted in MC that she'd had an A a few years before he and I met, they still continued to try and piece it back together.

 

I was typing to the OP - AnotherRound.

[AnotherRound]

Can you move?

 

Lol... I wish. I have a really good life here though, and I would hate to leave it. Apart from him, since I'm a transplant here, I have built a great group of friends and truly love it here. Plus, I own my house, and we all know that it's a buyer's market, not a seller's market. And, I have a career - if I moved out of state, I would have to get relicensed in whatever state I moved to.

 

So yes, I could move - but it would be a lot of hassle. And honestly, I'm fairly content being single and just dating right now. I don't plan on ever getting remarried, as I'm not much of a believer in marriage. And, not sure how that would work around here, as it would be considered "odd", I'm sure. I'm already "odd" in that I'm single and in my mid to late 30s with no children, lol.

 

So, no, at this point in my life, I'm not willing to uproot the last 11 years of my life to have a broader dating pool. So, I will stay where I am and see what happens. If I'm meant to be single forever, then I'm really okay with that. I like it, and enjoy my alone time, and my freedom. I was married once, and felt so stifled - I like this MUCH better... lol.

[AnotherRound]

HE knew how HE felt - and HE could have just filed for D! That would have been appropriate action for an unhappy man in a M - but he never did that.

 

Very unhealthy. And EVEN MORE unhealthy that HE blames her for HIS inability to take action.

 

I agree that's what he SHOULD have done, imo. But he has to make his own choices and his own decisions regarding his life and his relationships.

 

I know that you are judging him for it, and that is your right. But it's just not how I operate. I am able to see WHY he did it the way he did it, even if I don't agree with it. I guess it's just a difference in how we view the world and those around us, I'm okay with differences.

[2sunny]

Agreed. Many people buy into that no divorcing thing. I used to also - I only stayed briefly though, and thankfully, had no children. And it was the BEST thing I ever did for myself, leaving that relationship/marriage. And I tried to tell him that his child would be better served to have two happy parents in functioning relationships, than two miserable parents who can only model a broken relationship for him. He just never agreed with me, and I still think he is now waiting for his child to start exhibiting some odd behaviors or something bc of the divorce. Truth is, the child is adjusting extremely well, and hopefully, over time, exMM will see that it didn't ruin his child's life.

 

In my state, fathers often do not get 50% when it comes to parenting time. It's unfortunate, but I live in the bible belt, where many still believe that women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen - and should shoulder most of the parenting time. We actually have a mutual friend who is in the process of a divorce and is a wonderful father to his two children, and the courts are attempting to get him to settle for 25% parenting time. He has an attorney, and is fighting it, but it appears that he is not going to win, and he WAS the primary support giver in the home prior to the divorce. So, sometimes, it does work out unfairly, and that is a fear of exMMs for sure. Like I said, thankfully, he and stbxw are getting along well and are sharing their time well, even without any type of legal paper work as of yet. So, at least that.

 

I have thought of that. About him not making decisions about the divorce (previously) bc of not wanting responsibility for "breaking up the family". But I honestly believe that it was more about the effects on his child, or the reactions of his family due to them not believing in divorce. They are pretty religious (he isn't as much so) and they just simply do not believe in divorce (neither does his stbxw's family, as her parents have an abusive relationship and are LT married, and will never get divorced due to their beliefs).

 

I agree, I have never thought that someone should settle or stay in any relationship if it isn't adding to their life, or healthy. But, not everyone thinks like that, so I try not to judge. And honestly, I think the ONLY reason that the stbxw filed for the divorce is bc OTHER people found out and knew (thanks to the other OW) and she felt like she had to do something at that point, as others were judging her and expecting her to react. Again, it was/is dysfunctional, but for their own reasons, they both stayed. Trust me, he and I have had many discussions about it over the years where I expressed my opinions (and my professional knowledge) in an effort to help him see it more realistically (that divorce was NOT the end of the world, and it wasn't going to make his child become a serial killer). He just didn't believe me...

 

So, I get what you are saying. And I probably do have a higher EQ than him. I am not sure what I want to do. I'm not sure if I want to try or not. I go back and forth in my own head. It's a decision I will have to make at some point it appears, but right now, I just feel like I need more information - or something, before I can make a solid decision. I want to be with him in my heart - but in my head, I am not sure it's healthy, or good, or even worth trying. That's why I was contemplating (and trying) the NC... thinking that maybe that is what I needed to do. But, it's obvious that I have some curiosity, and some desire to try - so, I'm just taking it as it comes and hoping for the best, whatever that may be (as in my head, the best doesn't necessarily mean ending up with him).

 

Good balance is when the head, heart and gut are in alignment. The heart shouldn't be so out of balance that it has to "convince" the head to do this.

 

I wouldn't step in unless you feel balance.

 

Being out of balance tells you that something is terribly "off" - personally, I never gt involved when I'm out of balance... It's my CLEAR indicator to stay away - I never betray my instincts anymore on that level.

[2sunny]

I agree that's what he SHOULD have done, imo. But he has to make his own choices and his own decisions regarding his life and his relationships.

 

I know that you are judging him for it, and that is your right. But it's just not how I operate. I am able to see WHY he did it the way he did it, even if I don't agree with it. I guess it's just a difference in how we view the world and those around us, I'm okay with differences.

 

I'm just pointing out that HIS CHOICES and actions show his character. I don't see that as judgment - but rather as EVIDENCE of WHO HE IS based on his actions and inaction - you should see it as who he is as well.

 

We are defined by our ACTIONS and INACTIONS - that represents who we are as a person- an individual. He plays a good "victim" role. He's only of victim is himself for NOT changing it. HE could have gotten divorced... Yet he complained and blamed her then chose to cheat.

 

That's not a man I would find "attractive".

[Summer Breeze]

I was typing to the OP - AnotherRound.

 

You quoted my response to you so I naturally assumed it was directed at me. I do apologize.

[Tenacity]

Advice taken. But you are missing key things. You just said that there is another OW, and there isn't. And, if you read about how she came about, I think you will see a key element that you missed.

 

No problem, thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

 

I'm not missing anything, AR. I have read all your posts. He found an OW. Just because she was unstable does not excuse his actions in doing so. How can you possibly be okay with this?

 

You are determined to think that your situation is different. It isn't. But, I wish you the best.

[2sunny]

I'm not missing anything, AR. I have read all your posts. He found an OW. Just because she was unstable does not excuse his actions in doing so. How can you possibly be okay with this?

 

You are determined to think that your situation is different. It isn't. But, I wish you the best.

 

Like energy attracts - he picked an unstable/unhealthy OW.

[AnotherRound]

I appreciate all the feedback. I am pretty aware of myself and my situations, and I do take into account what others say - to an extent. I will not change who I am, and that is someone who is understanding of the why for others, even when I don't agree. That's just the way I am. I can disagree, but still understand the other person's perspective.

 

Thanks for the good wishes. Still not sure what my/our label was/is, and still not sure what I want to do exactly re a relationship with him - but know that I am not going to do NC at this time.

 

If I get to a solid decision of not wanting to be in a relationship with him, I will do NC. For now, just going to observe, and see what comes. He may date around and fall in love with someone else, and all of this would then be moot anyway. And I'm okay with whatever he decides, as long as he is happy.

 

Thanks again!