ThaWholigan Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I've been accused of being on the fence for believing in a higher power or being spiritual without committing myself to a religion. I'm not sure how to react to that (likely I won't), but it makes me think. What is it about spirituality that divides people and makes them want to impose their reality on others? What is wrong with having a personal faith in the unseen, without subscribing to the beliefs of everyone else? 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Pyro Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 What is wrong with having a personal faith in the unseen, without subscribing to the beliefs of everyone else? Everyone wants to be right and they want everyone to agree with them. I personally have no problem with what anyone believes as long as they don't sit there and tell me that my beliefs are wrong. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I think everyone has to determine for themselves what their belief system is, but you should also understand that Christians are called to witness their faith to others so that for those who are seeking answers and have an open mind about it, they can consider the possibility of what Christians believe to be true. They can get the answers to qustions they are looking for through the testimony of others. If you experienced a wonderful miracle in your life, wouldn't you want to tell others about it? If you've experienced the love of God in your life, wouldn't you want to share that with others so that they may also experience that? Christians are called to spread the gospel to others who are open to hearing it, and not to force it on people who have hardened their heart to receiving it. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThaWholigan Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 I think everyone has to determine for themselves what their belief system is, but you should also understand that Christians are called to witness their faith to others so that for those who are seeking answers and have an open mind about it, they can consider the possibility of what Christians believe to be true. They can get the answers to qustions they are looking for through the testimony of others. If you experienced a wonderful miracle in your life, wouldn't you want to tell others about it? If you've experienced the love of God in your life, wouldn't you want to share that with others so that they may also experience that? Christians are called to spread the gospel to others who are open to hearing it, and not to force it on people who have hardened their heart to receiving it. I understand very much the Christian's call to spread the gospel, having been a Christian myself previously. I have good rapport with many Christians (my mother being one of them), and still practice customs associated with Christianity . I am still trying to find my belief system that resonates with me spiritually - I suspect that I won't find it in religion but I firmly believe that there is something out there higher than us. It really depends on what the individual interpretation of God is - or rather, in many Christian's case, how God manifests in their lives (i.e. miracles - of which I have seen a few ). 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I understand very much the Christian's call to spread the gospel, having been a Christian myself previously. I have good rapport with many Christians (my mother being one of them), and still practice customs associated with Christianity . I am still trying to find my belief system that resonates with me spiritually - I suspect that I won't find it in religion but I firmly believe that there is something out there higher than us. It really depends on what the individual interpretation of God is - or rather, in many Christian's case, how God manifests in their lives (i.e. miracles - of which I have seen a few ). Keep searching friend. Took me many years myself For me faith is something that is constantly evolving. As soon as I think I have all the answers, God will give me three new doubts I never knew I had before When seeking faith, I have found to careful what you wish for. Increased faith, i have found, comes from enduring through trials. Well like Kathy M said, sharing the gospel is the epitome of the Golden rule for Christians. But like you said, faith is a personal journey and you can't force it on anyone else. Only God can give it and not even He will do so without our permission. If He doesn't force His will on us, what right do we have to force his will on others? "Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies b/c you know that they breed quarrels. The Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to all, apt to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness that God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I understand very much the Christian's call to spread the gospel, having been a Christian myself previously. I have good rapport with many Christians (my mother being one of them), and still practice customs associated with Christianity . I am still trying to find my belief system that resonates with me spiritually - I suspect that I won't find it in religion but I firmly believe that there is something out there higher than us. It really depends on what the individual interpretation of God is - or rather, in many Christian's case, how God manifests in their lives (i.e. miracles - of which I have seen a few ). I hope you find the answers you are looking for. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I've been accused of being on the fence for believing in a higher power or being spiritual without committing myself to a religion. I'm not sure how to react to that (likely I won't), but it makes me think. What is it about spirituality that divides people and makes them want to impose their reality on others? What is wrong with having a personal faith in the unseen, without subscribing to the beliefs of everyone else? There is nothing wrong with having a personal faith in the unseen, as well as there is nothing wrong with not having a personal faith in the unseen. Freedom is cool that way. I think the reason there are differences is becasue people are passionate about what they personally think or believe. That is the same with politics. You have passionate people on both sides. Link to post Share on other sites
Titanwolf Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 My adviser and I once discussed this (when I was young) and he told me that, next time someone asks you to define your religion, just tell them "I have personal beliefs". I have been saying that ever since and I find it really useful in stopping those overly-zealous folk dead in their tracks. They never persist once I explain that to them. Too many possess the mentality of "You're either with us or against us" and that's just ridiculous. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Nothing is wrong with it. According to me, anyway ! I was raised 100% "unchurched" and I came to my own spirituality through the path my life took. I have a deep spiritual life. Because of my own experiences in that area, I am not ever going to denigrate the beliefs of other people … I appreciate it when the same is extended to me and to people with other beliefs. I also really love to discuss spirituality, and specific belief systems with all kinds of people, as long as they are really discussing and not simply trying to be "right." To clarify, I don't disrespect fundamentalist bible believers, for example, AND I take exception to having my own spirituality / faith questioned by them. There certainly exists a great heap of RELIGIOUS people who believe "my way or the highway." I've noticed that there are atheists with the same propensity. They show the exact same level of tunnel vision and disrespect as those who beat others over the head with their religion. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 "A little Respect, a little reverence, for the things we cannot see...." I don't know if there's a name for the attitude I have.... Those who don't believe will always demand indisputable proof, and deride those who do believe, and those who do believe will forever protest their faith and insist that the Word of God is proof enough. Me? Well, I think that it actually doesn't really matter whether God exists or not, there's really no point in arguing.... If s/he does exist, then I personally believe s/he's a 'big enough' Deity to accept and forgive those who didn't believe in him providing they led the best life they could, maybe....? people like Gandhi, or HH the Dalai Lama.... And if s/he doesn't exist - well, the good did all they could to be good in this life, and hopefully they enjoyed being good, while they were being good. It helps to live life as if 'heaven' exists, whether it really does or not. As Gandhi famously put it, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Bit of a sweeping statement there.... but in some ways, I can understand his attitude.... There are several organisations that combine practices which are, by some, considered distinctly non-Christian, with Christian worship, and there is a strong fellowship between some Buddhist schools and Christian churches, who meet and combine forces for the general good of others. This, I like, because if we delve, we discover that different practices are actually, distinctly more similar to one another than we give them credit for. Fundamentally, it really doesn't matter what you believe exactly. There is more virtue in Practice - than Belief. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThaWholigan Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Nothing is wrong with it. According to me, anyway ! I was raised 100% "unchurched" and I came to my own spirituality through the path my life took. I have a deep spiritual life. Because of my own experiences in that area, I am not ever going to denigrate the beliefs of other people … I appreciate it when the same is extended to me and to people with other beliefs. I also really love to discuss spirituality, and specific belief systems with all kinds of people, as long as they are really discussing and not simply trying to be "right." To clarify, I don't disrespect fundamentalist bible believers, for example, AND I take exception to having my own spirituality / faith questioned by them. There certainly exists a great heap of RELIGIOUS people who believe "my way or the highway." I've noticed that there are atheists with the same propensity. They show the exact same level of tunnel vision and disrespect as those who beat others over the head with their religion. Atheists give me more trouble than most. There are a number of them who treat you like you're stupid for having a belief in anything outside of a tangible understanding of life, then death and that's it. I've had wonderful conversations with people of many different religions, as well as atheists and agnostics, but a handful of atheists have been less then respectful. It's perhaps ironic that it was a Christian in this case who accused me of being a fence-sitter. I believe that Atheists (and people of Judaic-based religions) refer to Agnostics and people who think like me as intellectual cowards - which speaks volumes about their own motivations as far as their position as intellectuals. That they would rather turn spirituality, reason and intellectualism into a battleground rather than a search for personal development is humorous. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I believe that Atheists (and people of Judaic-based religions) refer to Agnostics and people who think like me as intellectual cowards - which speaks volumes about their own motivations as far as their position as intellectuals. That they would rather turn spirituality, reason and intellectualism into a battleground rather than a search for personal development is humorous. I don't think Agnostics and people like you are "intellectual cowards" at all. One thing, I found them to be extremely honest with the fact that the answers to questions about God are not as cut and dry as either Theists or Atheists say. It's completely understandable that some people understand that life is not all about the physical and yet question what other people believe concerning the spiritual and/or concerning God or gods. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I keep bringing up my husband's family in this type of discussion. "PK" (pastor's kids) and raised in a profoundly rigid and even stifling environment. I think I posted before about how one sister had a school project and was partnered with a Catholic boy - who was not allowed to set foot in her house! My father in law has died, but mil lives on and boy, has she had quite a journey. She is and always has been a very serious biblical scholar, and does take it literally as the word of God. She loves her church, and she works with homeless people in an outreach mission (and drives herself there - at the age of 92!!) She is TRULY an open minded person, though she has not always been that way. Over the years she has found it necessary, for herself, to accept some things that would be deemed "unacceptable" by her religion. Me, for one example! And some wonderful people in our lives who are gay, and whom she now loves. Her daughter, thrice divorced, who is co-habiting out of wedlock and in a really healthy and nurturing relationship for the first time. Her granddaughter's abortion. I think that the older she gets, and the more wisdom she gains, the more deeply she realizes what she does not and cannot know. She leaves it all in the hands of God. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Personally I think you have a great spirit. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThaWholigan Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 As atheism has gained popularity and acceptance (moreso on the internet than in real life), it has developed its own herdlike followers, and mirrored organised religion in other ways. Refer to the drama over Atheism+ (or the Judean Peoples' Front as I like to call them). This is inevitable, really. But still amusing. It is amusing I think one of the most common motivations for this attitude towards those who don't choose sides and go their own way is simple insecurity, which they compensate for by surrounding themselves with like-minded people so their views won't be challenged. That's probably more cowardly than they realize What, in your opinion, is spirituality? Good question I struggle to define it at times, as it changes over time. Right now, I am of the opinion that spirituality is simply life beyond the paradigm of existence that we are currently aware of. An inner energy that exists within me that is connected to anything and everything in the universe and beyond. That there is something more. Spirituality to me is simply acceptance of all that is, even that which I don't know. At least that is what I think. But I'm a weird guy, I'm into chakras, Astrology and a half-hearted dabble in the idea of Metaphysics (soon ). As well as other religions. I don't think I answered your question the way I wanted to, it was a good question. Maybe I have still yet to define a solid opinion on what spirituality is. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I've noticed that there are atheists with the same propensity. They show the exact same level of tunnel vision and disrespect as those who beat others over the head with their religion. This was a problem I had with more than one person, a few years ago. Atheists who complained about religious people pushing their beliefs down the throats of others - one guy was on a site called 43 Things, where they also had "Lists of Bests", and he'd listed the names of any believers he came across on the site, with a personal note to harass them at some point. I also found some (just in general, not on that site), who were wanting to ban anything remotely spiritual or religious, even going so far as astrology, tarot cards/readings, etc. They considered it their right to ban anything that they deemed to be idiotic. *edit. Oh, that's why I couldn't find it. I was in the wrong thead. Link to post Share on other sites
denise_xo Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 That's probably more cowardly than they realize I disagree. I think living with insecurity is actually very courageous - to admit that you don't know, and that you will probably never fully know, the answer to all those big questions that religion revolves around, but that you remain committed to a continuous search in terms of what living morally and spiritually means. IMO, the most cowardly people are those who blindly follow scripture and dogma. That's really the easiest thing to do, by far. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThaWholigan Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 I disagree. I think living with insecurity is actually very courageous - to admit that you don't know, and that you will probably never fully know, the answer to all those big questions that religion revolves around, but that you remain committed to a continuous search in terms of what living morally and spiritually means. IMO, the most cowardly people are those who blindly follow scripture and dogma. That's really the easiest thing to do, by far. That's what I was saying I agree though Link to post Share on other sites
denise_xo Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 That's what I was saying I agree though Yes, sorry - I should have quoted that other post that you were responding to! Link to post Share on other sites
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