Fornication.

[Titanwolf]

Thanks for the responses/debate guys. It's made me realize that I can only do what I believe to be ethically and morally correct in my eyes. As TaraMaiden said, as long as I'm not bringing about any form of harm towards myself or others, all should be well. Over the years, I've tried to do away with "right and wrong" because when you think about it, killing is deemed as "wrong", but when a terrorist is holding a bus full of children hostage, his life has to be ended, to save the lives of many (For the greater good, much like the Buddhist teachings) but I digress.

[TheFinalWord]

Thanks for the responses/debate guys. It's made me realize that I can only do what I believe to be ethically and morally correct in my eyes.

 

So good and evil are up to each person? How can you then say what a terrorist does is evil? It's up to them and according to them it's right. To you its to prevent harm. They see it the same way, that this is a war zone and they are trying to prevent harm to their way of life.

 

If morality is subjective, it's based only on cultural norms and emotions. But we all know morality is objective. Why? What is that based on?

 

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart." -- Proverbs 21:2

 

Interestingly, your posts about subjective morality and homosexuality were addressed by Paul. If you want the Christian perspective, study Romans 1

 

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

 

God gave them over to a reprobate mind. Not a place I want to be in.

 

If you only want to look at the physical outcome of sin, "murder" you will find it is frequently addressed in the context of man's fallible opinion and cultural norms. It can change at a whim. One day x may be wrong, then if your emotions change, now it's right. If you want to know the spiritual reason that leads to murder, hatred, that is a heart issue. The bible is clear that hatred is sin. How can hatred be addressed? By loving our enemies and forgiving them.

 

If you want to know is masturbation a sin, that's the physical act. What occurred in the heart that lead to masturbation? Lust, which is a sin (no gray area at all).

 

If we only want to look at the physical outcome, and ignore the reality of sin, we can easily justify any action we want. "Yeah I treated that person like crap, but they deserved it!"

 

The thing is we all have our self-made rules, but then routinely break our own rules when it serves our own interest, which only reveals the hypocrisy in our hearts. Sin is real. Evil is not something that varies from person to person. What is sin? It's heart-based desires that opposes that nature of God. Objective morality is based in the nature of God. If not, it varies from one man to the next and no one can make any claim about right and wrong.

 

The bible is clear about what sin is. There are few grey areas when you get past the physical act and look at the heart-based motivation. People want to find gray areas, b/c it's our natural inclination as humans to create a god in our mind to suit our personal carnal desires (violation of the second of the 10 commandments).

[Titanwolf]

So good and evil are up to each person? How can you then say what a terrorist does is evil? It's up to them and according to them it's right. To you its to prevent harm. They see it the same way, that this is a war zone and they are trying to prevent harm to their way of life.

 

If morality is subjective, it's based only on cultural norms and emotions. But we all know morality is objective. Why? What is that based on?

 

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart." -- Proverbs 21:2

 

Interestingly, your posts about subjective morality and homosexuality were addressed by Paul. If you want the Christian perspective, study Romans 1

 

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

 

God gave them over to a reprobate mind. Not a place I want to be in.

 

If you only want to look at the physical outcome of sin, "murder" you will find it is frequently addressed in the context of man's fallible opinion and cultural norms. It can change at a whim. One day x may be wrong, then if your emotions change, now it's right. If you want to know the spiritual reason that leads to murder, hatred, that is a heart issue. The bible is clear that hatred is sin. How can hatred be addressed? By loving our enemies and forgiving them.

 

If you want to know is masturbation a sin, that's the physical act. What occurred in the heart that lead to masturbation? Lust, which is a sin (no gray area at all).

 

If we only want to look at the physical outcome, and ignore the reality of sin, we can easily justify any action we want. "Yeah I treated that person like crap, but they deserved it!"

 

The thing is we all have our self-made rules, but then routinely break our own rules when it serves our own interest, which only reveals the hypocrisy in our hearts. Sin is real. Evil is not something that varies from person to person. What is sin? It's heart-based desires that opposes that nature of God. Objective morality is based in the nature of God. If not, it varies from one man to the next and no one can make any claim about right and wrong.

 

The bible is clear about what sin is. There are few grey areas when you get past the physical act and look at the heart-based motivation. People want to find gray areas, b/c it's our natural inclination as humans to create a god in our mind to suit our personal carnal desires (violation of the second of the 10 commandments).

 

I believe that "right and wrong" depends on the values that are instilled within us, whilst maturing. That's a case of nature and nurture at work. I'm not saying that what a terrorist does is evil, because one country's terrorist is another country's freedom fighter. It's a case of perspective. Murder (in our society) would be justified for the sake of the greater good. The terrorist believes what they do is right, fair enough, but that will conflict with what other's beliefs, concerning what's "right". The outcome of that scenario will obviously be special to each case, but whomever achieves their objective and stays true to their beliefs in that case, will obviously reinforce the notion that what they did was "the right thing to do", using the course of events as reference. It's a very difficult topic for me to explain fully.

 

I understand where you're coming from and I'll read that extract but, the human element involved in organized Religion, eliminates any possibility of truth and authenticity in my eyes, because the bible was written by man and men lie, misconstrue and manipulate facts to serve a function at any given time. Marriage and monogamy to establish societal order for example. Perhaps if I was alive during or near to the time frame of Jesus, I wouldn't feel this way, but as it stands, I feel like it's now a case of Chinese whispers and I don't know what to believe. The pope exacerbated my doubts when he just up declared that there was no more limbo (and I think one said that hell doesn't exist anymore either)....I mean really? . I digress.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Titanwolf

[TaraMaiden]

Good and bad are subjective.

we are convinced that wanton acts of suicidal terrorism are bad.

And few would argue... except many fundamental extremists believe they are doing the Will of Allah and either fail or refuse to prescribe to our POV.

 

Within the 'normal' scheme of things however, laying aside such extreme examples - because truth be told, the majority of us will remain relatively unscathed by such occurrences, save by association, or through media coverage - 'Good' and 'Bad' are relative to personal experience.

And sometimes, if it were not for certain 'bad' things happening, we would not gain experience, insight and wisdom, for example.

[TheFinalWord]

I believe that "right and wrong" depends on the values that are instilled within us, whilst maturing. That's a case of nature and nurture at work. I'm not saying that what a terrorist does is evil, because one country's terrorist is another country's freedom fighter. It's a case of perspective. Murder (in our society) would be justified for the sake of the greater good. He believes what he does is right, fair enough, but that will conflict with what other's believe is what's right. The outcome of that scenario will obviously be special to each case, but whomever achieves their objective and stays true to their beliefs in that case, will obviously reinforce the notion that what they did was "the right thing to do", using the course of events as reference. It's a very difficult topic for me to explain fully.

 

Yes, you are right. The way we are raised can vary considerably from religion, to politics, the whole gambit. That's why God's Word is a solid reference. We can weigh any situation against it and have a sure foundation (from a Christian perspective).

 

I understand where you're coming from and I'll read that extract but, the human factor involved in organized Religion, eliminates any possibility of truth and authenticity in my eyes, because the bible was written by man and men lie, misconstrue and manipulate facts to serve a function at any given time. Marriage and monogamy to establish societal order for example. Perhaps if I was alive during or near to the time frame of Jesus, I wouldn't feel this way, but as it stands, I feel like it's now a case of Chinese whispers and I don't know what to believe. The pope exacerbated my doubts when he just declared that there was no more limbo....I mean really? . I digress.

 

I understand that sentiment completely. I think you are doing the right thing to investigate everything. I went through that period myself Here are some books to read if you want a Christian perspective. These helped me a lot:

 

The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict Fully Updated To Answer The Questions Challenging Christians Today: Josh McDowell: 0020049106884: Amazon.com: Books

 

http://www.amazon.com/Hard-Questions-Answers-William-Craig/dp/1581344872/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1348351902&sr=1-3&keywords=william+lane+craig+books

 

If you want to study the bible, I'd recommend the English Standard Version. Here is a free on-line bible:

 

English Standard Version (ESV Bible) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com

 

Yes, the church is rife with folly. One good thing about that is the church is full of sinners which means I fit right in Often though Christians forget they are sinners and become holier than thou. Annoying, but happens

 

What I said about right and wrong varying from one person to the next, is very true for myself and other Christians as well. If we do not constantly check ourselves it is easy to fall into what the bible calls a "stronghold". For example, let's say I love drugs and want to smoke pot. Well many Christians will say "God gave man all the herbs for food so smoking pot is okay". However, the bible condemns drug use in many places. But those people want to smoke pot and they use whatever means to find a justification for that. People do that with the bible, they do it with cultural norms "everyone else is doing it", they do with politics. It's not really the source they do it from that is the issue, it's the heart based motivation that is the core of the matter. For myself, I have found the best way to keep myself in check is to pray, and ask God to reveal if there is any sin in me. Meditate on scriptures and God will show you.

 

Good points though friend. All the best in your quest.

[Hawaii50]

Jesus forgave the prostitute because of her faith.

 

I did that, too.

[TaraMaiden]

....However, the bible condemns drug use in many places......

 

passages?

Reference?

Thanks.

[veggirl]

That's why we're there. We seek forgiveness.

 

The simple answer is: no one is perfect. We all sin, and we all do things that are against God's Word.

 

Luckily, God's grace and love for us is so incomprehensibly massive and good that He can forgive us our shortcomings, and failures. Jesus forgave the prostitute because of her faith.

 

I don't get it. I assume the 2 of you are both or were both sexually active on the regular outside of marriage?

 

so you actively and continually do something you know is a sin, why is it forgiven again? I would think doing something and knowing "well I can ask for forgiveness for this later" would be frowned upon.

[Titanwolf]

Yeah this has puzzled me also. Its one thing to do something and ask for forgiveness. But alot of people just do it and have it in the back of thier mind that because they believe thier god is forgiving then its ok. Yet they know what they are doing is not only wrong but looked down upon very heavily.

 

That's EXACTLY how I feel/felt. I can settle for "Impulse, spur of the moment" but for a person to premeditate such an act and continue such a behaviour, but still subscribe to a Religion that heavily condemns these acts..I can't understand that. I know we're human but surely there is something wrong with that method of thinking.

 

As the above poster put it though, "We are only human". What more can you say?

[Hawaii50]

The simple answer is: no one is perfect. We all sin, and we all do things that are against God's Word.

 

Luckily, God's grace and love for us is so incomprehensibly massive and good that He can forgive us our shortcomings, and failures. Jesus forgave the prostitute because of her faith.

 

passages?

Reference?

Thanks.

 

 

There seems to be a sect on my Island that will be happy to reference any marijuana related passages for you

 

 

• Holy Cannabis sacrament is used by members for prayer, meditation, worship, nutrition, healing, and fellowship.
  
• We use Cannabis in formal rituals, including baptisms, weddings, & funerals.
  
• Cannabis use as a sacrament is also encouraged for communing with nature.
  
• Holy Anointing Oil, made according to the recipe given to Moses, is used to bless and heal.
  
• Making and providing Cannabis sacramentals for those in need is an important part of the THC Ministry’s mission.
  
• We teach members to bless their challenges, find the good in any situation and to honor all of God’s creation.
  
• We strive to live with modesty, good manners and humbleness.
  

Hawaii Marijuana | The THC Ministry and marijuana in Hawaii; Legal Precedents & Religious Advocacy

[Titanwolf]

if there is a god then he cares nothing about us

I believe that he does exist, but not in the way that people think. I believe that he is the architect and nothing more. He created (simply because he is the creator, it's what he does) nature and the universe to be self-sustaining entities, that function without any external input. I just don't believe he has any involvement with his creation. Bar nature, every scenario can be explained by a subsequent path of free wills. Choices that were made by people, that led to the outcome of that scenario. Divine intervention doesn't compute with me. Edited September 22, 2012 by Titanwolf

[mercy]

I don't get it. I assume the 2 of you are both or were both sexually active on the regular outside of marriage?

 

so you actively and continually do something you know is a sin, why is it forgiven again? I would think doing something and knowing "well I can ask for forgiveness for this later" would be frowned upon.

 

Many things I did when I was young and dumb.

 

Yes, I do. I get angry, I say things I regret. The list goes on and on.

 

And no I don't live like the words in bold ^^ never have. Though I do fail every single day but each day I strive to do better than the last.

 

No, h was not my first but he will be my last.

[mercy]

It is confusing. After I accepted Christ, I made a vow to never have premarital sex again. I don't necessarily know if there's any point-or if I'm already too impure for it all, but I'm trying to get right with God.

 

All sin is equal, too. Some churches and people would have you believe that one sin is worse than another sin, but that is not so. That's a part that's always confused me when people focus on homosexuality like it is somehow worse than the other sins. So if all sins are equal, and we're all sinners, we're all going to Hell in a hand basket unless someone forgives. Jesus made a point of healing and forgiving those that had faith in Him, no matter the sin. I know I keep laboring the story about the prostitute, (but it's relevant to this thread) but He forgave her. He saw her faith in Him, and that was all it took. For the simple fact that she believed, and had faith that He was the one who could forgive her, He did it.

 

I'm not saying people should just allow themselves to fall at their nature's whim, and do the wrong thing whenever the fancy takes them. I'm just saying that if we didn't need saving, we wouldn't have been given a savior.

 

I love this post!

Hope you know what a blessing you are!

[Titanwolf]

It is confusing. After I accepted Christ, I made a vow to never have premarital sex again. I don't necessarily know if there's any point-or if I'm already too impure for it all, but I'm trying to get right with God.

 

All sin is equal, too. Some churches and people would have you believe that one sin is worse than another sin, but that is not so. That's a part that's always confused me when people focus on homosexuality like it is somehow worse than the other sins. So if all sins are equal, and we're all sinners, we're all going to Hell in a hand basket unless someone forgives. Jesus made a point of healing and forgiving those that had faith in Him, no matter the sin. I know I keep laboring the story about the prostitute, (but it's relevant to this thread) but He forgave her. He saw her faith in Him, and that was all it took. For the simple fact that she believed, and had faith that He was the one who could forgive her, He did it.

 

I'm not saying people should just allow themselves to fall at their nature's whim, and do the wrong thing whenever the fancy takes them. I'm just saying that if we didn't need saving, we wouldn't have been given a savior.

 

I understand how you feel and what you mean. I struggled with religion quite a lot previously as well. One church teaching one thing, whilst another contradicts that somewhere else. It's enough to make anyone go insane and being the curious person that I am, that's almost what it did because it fuelled my depression.

 

I agree, I don't think people should just yield to their carnal desires. Resistance makes one's heart strong and the mind, disciplined. However, what is deemed as morally wrong, varies from person to person. Hence, some will feel they have sinned from having premarital sex, whilst some believe that it's a non-contributing factor in the grand scheme of things.

[ImperfectionisBeauty]

I always wondered about this too, and what about people who never get married? Are you supposed to just never masturbate or have sex ever in your whole life?? That just seems unrealistic. I mean I am not a virgin and I am Christian but I don't think that God will necessarily punish me because I have premarital sex. I don't want to wait for marriage, that seems so far away to me and I have needs haha.

[TheFinalWord]

passages?

Reference?

Thanks.

 

Hi TaraMaiden! Sure!

 

Couple of important things for everyone.

 

One is, if we want to identify sin, we have to seek God.

 

"Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the Lord understand all things." --Prov. 28:5

 

It is easy for me to give a list of sins (Paul said sin is obvious: Gal 5:19), but the truth is not everyone is tempted in the same areas. For some people, adultery is not an issue, for others it is a constant battle. For some, drug use is highly tempting, for others not even an issue. For some, being a work-a-holic is a temptation (me) for others they have no problem freeing their mind when they are off. Great video by Franis Chan who gives a funny example of temptation:

 

 

In order to identify sin at a spiritual level, we have to be receptive to the Holy Spirit. That is how it is handled on an individual level. Also, if a godly mentor, such as a parent or pastor, notices an area in your life, we should be open to reproof.

 

Seeking God is an active process, which means we have to commit our heart to learning about God, desire to please Him, and, most importantly, be receptive to His teachings.

 

Outside of the many verses which state we are to be sober-minded, avoid intoxication (mind altering substances), and that our body is to be a temple for God, there are passages which condemn drug use (I assume you mean illicit drugs and not just alcohol which is also a drug; note you will not find LSD or heroin in the bible but intoxicants are addressed).

 

The Greek word is pharmakeia, which according to Strong's Lexicon:

 

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

 

"the use or the administering of drugs"

 

it is often interpreted as "witchcraft" in the King James Version. Witchcraft generally encompasses a range of activities,

 

1) the use or the administering of drugs

2) poisoning

3) sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it

4) metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

 

 

Here is from Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

 

Blue Letter Bible - Dictionaries

 

Sorcery:

(Eng., "pharmacy," etc.) primarily signified "the use of medicine, drugs, spells;" then, "poisoning;" then, "sorcery," Gal 5:20, RV, "sorcery" (AV, "witchcraft"), mentioned as one of "the works of the flesh." See also Rev 9:21; 18:23. In the Sept., Exd 7:11, 22; 8:7, 18; Isa 47:9, 12. In "sorcery," the use of drugs, whether simple or potent, was generally accompanied by incantations and appeals to occult powers, with the provision of various charms, amulets, etc., professedly designed to keep the applicant or patient from the attention and power of demons, but actually to impress the applicant with the mysterious resources and powers of the sorcerer.

 

 

The Greek work for drunkenness is methē, which means to be intoxicated.

 

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

 

There are many verses about drunkenness and drug use. This pretty much sums it up:

 

"Galatians 5:19-21: The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft [pharmakeia]; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions

and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

 

In bible times, drugs were used to elicit hallucinations and to invoke a spiritual experience (still are in many occult practices).

 

But, let us get to the heart of the matter What motivates someone to take drugs? They desire a mind-altering state. So drug use is the physical outcome to a sinful desire. The medium is less important.

 

Believers are to be sober-minded and not under influence of mind altering intoxicants (I Peter 1:13), filled with the spirit not with wine [i.e. intoxicants: alcohol is a drug so the same verses regarding alcohol in the bible can apply] (Ephesians 5:18), have self-control by walking in the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), good citizens that avoid debauchery (Romans 13:12-14) and obey civil law (Romans 13:12-14 [many drugs are illegal]). These things are not possible when intoxicated. Various intoxicants cause different effects. Drunkenness lowers our inhibitions, marijuana clouds our judgment, cocaine damages the body and is addictive. Nothing is supposed to master us, except for God's Spirit; to allow that to occur we have to be sober and filled with the Spirit. Drugs can also easily become an idol. How do I know? I was a drug user. Pretty much everything but crystal meth. It can easily consume your life and can cloud your judgment. God delivered me

 

Couple of good videos:

 

 

Not everyone will be able to handle this one:

 

 

Good link with lots of reference verses:

 

Drug Abuse and the Bible: Intoxication, Addiction, Sobriety

[TheFinalWord]

It is confusing. After I accepted Christ, I made a vow to never have premarital sex again. I don't necessarily know if there's any point-or if I'm already too impure for it all, but I'm trying to get right with God.

 

All sin is equal, too. Some churches and people would have you believe that one sin is worse than another sin, but that is not so. That's a part that's always confused me when people focus on homosexuality like it is somehow worse than the other sins. So if all sins are equal, and we're all sinners, we're all going to Hell in a hand basket unless someone forgives. Jesus made a point of healing and forgiving those that had faith in Him, no matter the sin. I know I keep laboring the story about the prostitute, (but it's relevant to this thread) but He forgave her. He saw her faith in Him, and that was all it took. For the simple fact that she believed, and had faith that He was the one who could forgive her, He did it.

 

I'm not saying people should just allow themselves to fall at their nature's whim, and do the wrong thing whenever the fancy takes them. I'm just saying that if we didn't need saving, we wouldn't have been given a savior.

 

It amazes me how much wisdom you have.

[taiko]

I always wondered about this too, and what about people who never get married? Are you supposed to just never masturbate or have sex ever in your whole life?? That just seems unrealistic. I mean I am not a virgin and I am Christian but I don't think that God will necessarily punish me because I have premarital sex. I don't want to wait for marriage, that seems so far away to me and I have needs haha.

Yers that is the Catholic Church position and how most of its Priest and all of the nuns are supposed to live.

[irin]

i think its all about self-control.

[ImperfectionisBeauty]

Yers that is the Catholic Church position and how most of its Priest and all of the nuns are supposed to live.

 

Oh I'm not Catholic, I'm Baptist. We never talked about that in my church, or maybe I didn't hear it. I have no idea. I just couldn't imagine waiting for like ever. Then what if you don't get married until you're like 50 you waited almost your whole life for sex.. You won't even get to enjoy it.

[Hawaii50]

I think you'll be fine "in lust you trust" lol.

[TheFinalWord]

I don't have that much wisdom at all, but thank you.

 

I think if anyone has the wisdom here it's you

 

You do, its a natural spiritual wisdom that you can't learn from books.

 

I only have what little God grants

 

Take care.

[ImperfectionisBeauty]

What makes you think 50 year olds don't enjoy sex?

 

It's not that they don't enjoy it as much as when you are older you probably can't get wet or as wet, and you aren't as flexible (I am 21 and not flexible lol but in normal cases lol) and I just feel like its such a late start.

[taiko]

Oh I'm not Catholic, I'm Baptist. We never talked about that in my church, or maybe I didn't hear it. I have no idea. I just couldn't imagine waiting for like ever. Then what if you don't get married until you're like 50 you waited almost your whole life for sex.. You won't even get to enjoy it.

The almost all or nothing doctrine would seem to encourage Catholics to be not so picky and settle for good enough at a younger age. However if they are racked with guilt because they let their hands stray, confessionals or not it does not seem healthy to my ears. But like the rest of us Catholics do stray from the letter of the law as taught by their Bishops and even joke about the stray then to confession, which according to doctrine is not a true cnfession so the soul is still in peril, cycle.

[ImperfectionisBeauty]

The almost all or nothing doctrine would seem to encourage Catholics to be not so picky and settle for good enough at a younger age. However if they are racked with guilt because they let their hands stray, confessionals or not it does not seem healthy to my ears. But like the rest of us Catholics do stray from the letter of the law as taught by their Bishops and even joke about the stray then to confession, which according to doctrine is not a true cnfession so the soul is still in peril, cycle.

 

It seems like Catholics have the strictest area of Christianity. No divorce, no masturbating no sex before marriage no abortion. It just seems like so much