Loving two women at once

[Sauron]

Can I ask why this question now?? You've been straight forward on all your post and replies about your W, OW, and OOW. You know you're not leaving and if one of the "others" moves on you'd be ok with that. Why now are you wondering if you could love 2 women??

 

Intellectual curiosity.

[Sauron]

I believe that a person can be in love with more than one person at a time, but my definition of truly loving someone includes kindness, faithfulness, respect, regard, caring, etc.. Cheating, dishonesty and keeping secrets does not fall under the definition of love. If you truly love someone you would not risk causing great harm to them as you do Sauron.

 

From your posts, you lust much more than you love. You don't love your wife, in fact I saw one post where you spoke quite badly of her. I'm just taking a guess, but I doubt she loves you either. She probably fell out of love with you, after your affair and then the final blow was when you f'd her friend. She probably just tolerates you too.

 

Uhhh that incident happened 30 plus years go. I feel all the things you mentioned in your first paragraph for all the women in my life. Well, except for the one that told her husband about us, thats why I don't mess with married women. And if my wife doesn't love me why HAS she stayed? Because I make her feel loved and love her as well. Yes, I complain about her, but that doesn't mean I don't lover her.

[AnotherRound]

Thank you AR. I am asking out of intellectual curiosity. I have friend that discussed this with me as well. I love my wife for many reasons, even though I do not like some things about her, and as you mentioned we do have children together and that is a bond. I also love my OW, but for different reasons as I pointed out in an earlier response. I thought posting in the OW forum would get some reasonable feedback. And I feel love for all the women I have been with. Ins't there a reason sex is reffered to as love making? I get high of that connection with a partner during the intimate sensual moments we spend together.

 

ExMM and I used to describe that as a "full body buzz" it was a satiated feeling of sexual, emotional, and intellectual fulfillment. I know the feeling well, and truly miss that, as I haven't felt it with anyone since... yet. Like I said before, I will have that again, or I will stay single.

 

And the love languages are interesting. Mine is verbal, and is my life blood. Any idea what yours is?

[TaraMaiden]

You need your morning coffee, so bitter. Just because I don't fit into your world view doesn't mean you are right, or the fact that what I feel is genuine love for the women in my life. But this is the internet and you are entitled to your opinion.

The problem you have is - that it's not just 'my' opinion.

Others have expressed the same, but you obvioulsy don't approve of opinions that do not align with yours, labelling them as bitter and responding with sarcasm.

 

You just don't like hearing it 'like it is'.

 

You may personally see nothing wrong with what you're doing, which leads me to believe your moral boundaries are very blurred.

You 'believe' you feel 'genuine love' for the women in your life.

Many disagree, and have given you legitimate, logical, valid and absolutely rational reasons for why your view is skewed.

Giving it a noble title like 'feeling love' is all very well if it works both ways within the conditions of honesty, openness and personal integrity.

 

You are dishonest. You are not 'open' and frankly, I'm finding it a really hard job to see integrity anywhere.

I see 'self-gratification' I see 'deceit' I see 'using someone else to satisfy a carnal need that's out of control'. You clearly equate sex - with love. You said it yourself.

Sex and love are not the same thing.

And of course you put whomever your with at the time, first. We can't all multi-task.

Try thinking about another lover while you're screwing the woman under you.

Really, in terms of 'how much you love her'.

Then see how focussed your love is.

[TaraMaiden]

I respectfully disagree. I love making love. You met many trouser friends?

No, I stay faithful to the ones I'm with.

It makes me feel more honourable and dignified that way.

I don't just let any dick come near me. I have more integrity than that.

 

And there's a telling remark.

You 'love making love.'

That answers my point, beautifully.

What a dead give-away.

[frozensprouts]

if you love someone, you would not want to see them hurt, so you adapt your actions accordingly.

 

You don't do that. Over the years, you have exposed your wife, whom you say you love, to the potential for being hurt...it wasn't a one time mistake, it's been a series of calculated actions that you have taken with the full knowledge that your actions could be hurtful.

 

When I say "hurtful" I don't just mean in terms of your marriage ending should she find out, I also mean you hurt her by threatening her security. Every time you have sex with someone ( and let's be honest, it's been more than just a couple of other women) you potentially expose your wife to contracting an STD, fining out you have gotten another woman pregnant ( it can and does happen, even if a condom is used). You also expose her to the potential for one of your other woman being unstable and becoming what is termed on here "a bunny boiler"...again, this can and does happen.

If you "love" your wife, why do you expose her to those potential outcomes, over and over? Why do you deny her the knowledge that she needs to protect herself?

 

Honestly, to me it sounds like the way you treat your wife is more akin to a little boy stealing the candy behind mommy's back who then smugly sits there gloating about how they pulled one over on her.

 

If you look long and hard at the situation from her perspective ( or any one else's) would you really say that you are treating any of them in a loving way, beyond at a very superficial level? You like to say that "love" is nothing more than a chemical reaction in the body. At it's lowest level, perhaps that's true ( sounds more like "lust" though)...but if you are talking about higher level love where there are things like kindness, caring,compassion, gentleness, s desire to protect the one you love from being hurt, selflessness, a willingness to put the their before one's self....can you honestly look at the way you treat these women and tell me that you do these things? If your other women were to suddenly stop having sex with you due to something beyond their control, would you stick around for every long?

Seems you love only in terms of what "love' can get for you and how it meets your needs at the time...but no one here will convince you of that, because you don't like to see yourself in a negative way...

[Sauron]

I do think it's interesting that you choose not to respond to this reflection. It seems that this is truly at the heart of your dilemma, and not the chemicals in your brain you are so keen to discuss.

 

I admit to keeping my W in the dark. I have my reasons they are posted on this site. I have admitted to all the other women currently in my life that I have been a serial cheater, and that I was married before ever engaging with them. I have no dilemma as many of you would like to think, nor am I seeking validation, approval or anything else other than information. You seem to have a lot of hostility, bitterness and be very vindicative, and if it is coming through here, it probably comes through in other aspects of your life. I hope that you find some peace and happiness somewhere down the line and realize that you have one life to live and that you should get as much out of it as you can.

[TaraMaiden]

.......

Seems you love only in terms of what "love' can get for you and how it meets your needs at the time...but no one here will convince you of that, because you don't like to see yourself in a negative way...

 

QFT. Worth noting, OP.

See?

Not just my opinion......

[frozensprouts]

don't you see...it's not the having sex with other women that indicates you don't really love any of them on anything more than a surface level...it's the deception, the lying, and the willingness to expose them to harm, both physical and emotional, that indicates this.Can you honestly say that as long as you are getting your needs met that you really care about the potential negative outcomes?

 

on a very fundamental level, your behavior is quiet cruel.

[Sauron]

ExMM and I used to describe that as a "full body buzz" it was a satiated feeling of sexual, emotional, and intellectual fulfillment. I know the feeling well, and truly miss that, as I haven't felt it with anyone since... yet. Like I said before, I will have that again, or I will stay single.

 

And the love languages are interesting. Mine is verbal, and is my life blood. Any idea what yours is?

 

Connection, it is that moment when I look into my lovers eyes and there is almost a mental coupling that establishes a very powerfuil connection, where 2 become one. It happens almost everytime, and at that moment I am compeltely enslaved and the love making is off the charts.

[frozensprouts]

I admit to keeping my W in the dark. I have my reasons they are posted on this site. I have admitted to all the other women currently in my life that I have been a serial cheater, and that I was married before ever engaging with them. I have no dilemma as many of you would like to think, nor am I seeking validation, approval or anything else other than information. You seem to have a lot of hostility, bitterness and be very vindicative, and if it is coming through here, it probably comes through in other aspects of your life. I hope that you find some peace and happiness somewhere down the line and realize that you have one life to live and that you should get as much out of it as you can.

 

do they all know that you currently are sleeping with at least 3 women?

[TaraMaiden]

....I hope that you find some peace and happiness somewhere down the line and realize that you have one life to live and that you should get as much out of it as you can.

 

Yes, I have: in ways that don't involve cheating, lying, infidelity, self-gratification, and jettisoning personal moral standards and principles, in favour of pursuing something selfish and egotistical, simply because I think I can.

I don't abuse someone's affection, trust and faithfulness in such an impersonal and self-justifying way, simply because I believe 'one life is all I have'.

[Sauron]

The problem you have is - that it's not just 'my' opinion.

Others have expressed the same, but you obvioulsy don't approve of opinions that do not align with yours, labelling them as bitter and responding with sarcasm.

 

You just don't like hearing it 'like it is'.

 

You may personally see nothing wrong with what you're doing, which leads me to believe your moral boundaries are very blurred.

You 'believe' you feel 'genuine love' for the women in your life.

Many disagree, and have given you legitimate, logical, valid and absolutely rational reasons for why your view is skewed.

Giving it a noble title like 'feeling love' is all very well if it works both ways within the conditions of honesty, openness and personal integrity.

 

You are dishonest. You are not 'open' and frankly, I'm finding it a really hard job to see integrity anywhere.

I see 'self-gratification' I see 'deceit' I see 'using someone else to satisfy a carnal need that's out of control'. You clearly equate sex - with love. You said it yourself.

Sex and love are not the same thing.

And of course you put whomever your with at the time, first. We can't all multi-task.

Try thinking about another lover while you're screwing the woman under you.

Really, in terms of 'how much you love her'.

Then see how focussed your love is.

 

Actually I am extremely honest with my self, love my self as well, don't we all? I hold no guns to anyones head. The women I have in my life are all free to go. As I mentioned they get full disclosure on my status, well except my wife, and that is a situation none of you are mentally capable of wrapping your minds around.

[TaraMaiden]

Connection, it is that moment when I look into my lovers eyes and there is almost a mental coupling that establishes a very powerfuil connection, where 2 become one. It happens almost everytime, and at that moment I am compeltely enslaved and the love making is off the charts.

 

:lmao:

 

Now that - is hilarious.

 

For a moment there, I actually thought you were serious.

Doubtless, the feeling is mutual.....

[TaraMaiden]

Actually I am extremely honest with my self, love my self as well, don't we all? I hold no guns to anyones head. The women I have in my life are all free to go. As I mentioned they get full disclosure on my status, well except my wife, and that is a situation none of you are mentally capable of wrapping your minds around.

 

Ask your wife whether she could wrap her head around it too.

 

Full disclosure doesn't know exceptions.

Why lie to her, when you can be so honest with the others?

Surely, she should be the one person you should have complete and frank openness with?

What are we not getting here?

What is it we cannot wrap our minds around?

And surely, all mind-wrapping is mental?

or is there any other kind?

Other than thinking with your dick, that is?

[Sauron]

if you love someone, you would not want to see them hurt, so you adapt your actions accordingly.

 

You don't do that. Over the years, you have exposed your wife, whom you say you love, to the potential for being hurt...it wasn't a one time mistake, it's been a series of calculated actions that you have taken with the full knowledge that your actions could be hurtful.

 

When I say "hurtful" I don't just mean in terms of your marriage ending should she find out, I also mean you hurt her by threatening her security. Every time you have sex with someone ( and let's be honest, it's been more than just a couple of other women) you potentially expose your wife to contracting an STD, fining out you have gotten another woman pregnant ( it can and does happen, even if a condom is used). You also expose her to the potential for one of your other woman being unstable and becoming what is termed on here "a bunny boiler"...again, this can and does happen.

If you "love" your wife, why do you expose her to those potential outcomes, over and over? Why do you deny her the knowledge that she needs to protect herself?

 

Honestly, to me it sounds like the way you treat your wife is more akin to a little boy stealing the candy behind mommy's back who then smugly sits there gloating about how they pulled one over on her.

 

If you look long and hard at the situation from her perspective ( or any one else's) would you really say that you are treating any of them in a loving way, beyond at a very superficial level? You like to say that "love" is nothing more than a chemical reaction in the body. At it's lowest level, perhaps that's true ( sounds more like "lust" though)...but if you are talking about higher level love where there are things like kindness, caring,compassion, gentleness, s desire to protect the one you love from being hurt, selflessness, a willingness to put the their before one's self....can you honestly look at the way you treat these women and tell me that you do these things? If your other women were to suddenly stop having sex with you due to something beyond their control, would you stick around for every long?

Seems you love only in terms of what "love' can get for you and how it meets your needs at the time...but no one here will convince you of that, because you don't like to see yourself in a negative way...

 

Damn I am trying to keep up ladies. Yes, if they stopped making love with me, I would still be interested in them as people. It has never only been about sex, it is so much more complicated than sex. Bunny boilers, well maybe if you lie, set expectations anddon't keep committments then you have unhappy OW. I don't do that. I used to be angery at my W, because she wouldn't try too much, I found a solution. I am careful, she is lazy and that's on her. Like I said I have had OW for almost 7 years, and numeorus flings. I manage my life and am very detailed oriented and practice safe sex. None of it is superfical, all genuine.

[Sauron]

don't you see...it's not the having sex with other women that indicates you don't really love any of them on anything more than a surface level...it's the deception, the lying, and the willingness to expose them to harm, both physical and emotional, that indicates this.Can you honestly say that as long as you are getting your needs met that you really care about the potential negative outcomes?

 

on a very fundamental level, your behavior is quiet cruel.

 

Only in your eyes is it cruel. You all act like I am taking advantage of these women, including my wife. If a woman is lonely, alone and not in a realtionsghip or doesn't want one, and I can offer her love, kindness, companionship, a connection, intimacy would you prefer her to deny these very basic human needs we all have. What if she has had horrible bad marriages, and found nothing but jerks and losers on the dating market, would you have her deny her basic human needs? You all subscribe to some moral code that is defined by religon,which has killed, tortured and held humanity's progress back for thousands of years. That is cruel if you ask me. Open your mind that nature gave you andtakle of the blinders.

[Sauron]

QFT. Worth noting, OP.

See?

Not just my opinion......

 

Great Tara, Sprouts supports you, you are vindicaited. I am going to confess, release my W from bondage and check my self into moral rehab.

[TaraMaiden]

Damn I am trying to keep up ladies.

 

see... it's interesting how it's 'ladies' that find your behaviour, attitude, opinions and views so objectionable.

can't you stop and ask yourself why that is?

 

None of it is superfical, all genuine.

You don't get it:

Lying, cheating, deceit, non-disclosure - is not 'genuine'.

 

Only in your eyes is it cruel. You all act like I am taking advantage of these women, including my wife.

ESPECIALLY, SPECIFICALLY and PARTICULARLY your WIFE !!

 

If a woman is lonely, alone and not in a realtionsghip or doesn't want one, and I can offer her love, kindness, companionship, a connection, intimacy would you prefer her to deny these very basic human needs we all have.

If you're married, yes!! It's not your place and position to offer that to someone else! You're a married man - that is so disrespectful to the woman you promised FIDELITY to!!

 

What if she has had horrible bad marriages, and found nothing but jerks and losers on the dating market, would you have her deny her basic human needs?

Oh the poor things! so the way to find that is to screw a man who's blatantly screwing women behind his wife's back. Obviously counselling, divorce and integrity hasn't worked for them either, So, let's cheat and contribute to the ongoing problem! you're the solution to a symptom, not the cause. You're a sticking plaster, not a cure, you're a stop-gap measure, not the fulfilment of all they need!

You take advantage of the vulnerable, and manufacture the justification to mask the fact that you're a philanderer and a liar.

 

You all subscribe to some moral code that is defined by religon,which has killed, tortured and held humanity's progress back for thousands of years.

 

Oh please, spare us the grasping-at-straws accustaions. Most of us aren't religious in the slightest. we have a strong dislike of deluded liars who justify their actions by trying to convince us they're doing their women a favour. The big fly in the ointment is that you are cheating on your wife.

 

That is cruel if you ask me. Open your mind that nature gave you andtakle of the blinders.

Take your blinders off, free your wife to find someone who loves, honours and respects her, and gives their attention 100% devotedly.

jeesh, who died and made you the new all-giving sex-god?

[TaraMaiden]

Great Tara, Sprouts supports you, you are vindicaited. I am going to confess, release my W from bondage and check my self into moral rehab.

If I thought for one moment you were serious, I'd pay for your stay.

But that's sarcasm again, isn't it?

Best form of self-defence is attack, huh?

When you can find no reasoned or rational argument to justify your position, go for the barbed comment.

Nice.

[2sure]

Sauron, I don't know the answer to your question...but think it was just a conversation starter so...

 

Ive known men like you whom I had and still have no real issue with. Generally, they are the nicest guys, easiest to spend time with. You are sincere in your enjoyment and appreciation of women to the point where you love them.

 

I'm not accusing but asking you to give some thought to this...

The line is not so fine between a sincere appreciation of women and being a womanizer. A womanizer loves the enjoyment of women, including obviously, their company...but does not love women.

 

I don't think I need to go on and with that explanation? Besides, it brings up the more important thought(maybe)...that loving women , in their various varieties , means you cannot have a deep , fulfilling , and spiritual love with one woman.

 

But maybe you don't think that exists, or that it isn't important, or that you are happier with what you have instead.

 

Just thoughts.

[BetrayedH]

Great Tara, Sprouts supports you, you are vindicaited. I am going to confess, release my W from bondage and check my self into moral rehab.

 

What I find telling is that you cannot find support for this "loving two women at once" concept even on an anonymous internet forum for people involved in extra marital affairs.

[ThatJustHappened]

What is love? Really, it is a biological response that is hormone driven. The brain produces oxytocin in abundance which stimulates the pleasure centers of the brain when you think about the loved one. I will submit to you that regardless of the context, I can love, care for and please more than one woman at time. It is only in the last few hundred years that this became taboo in Western Soceity. I do not feel like a spoiled child, I am a mature man in a multiple mature realtionships. Because it doesn't fit your definition of what's right, doesn't mean its wrong.

 

Again, I I I I I. It's all about you. What about them?

[frozensprouts]

Only in your eyes is it cruel. You all act like I am taking advantage of these women, including my wife. If a woman is lonely, alone and not in a realtionsghip or doesn't want one, and I can offer her love, kindness, companionship, a connection, intimacy would you prefer her to deny these very basic human needs we all have. What if she has had horrible bad marriages, and found nothing but jerks and losers on the dating market, would you have her deny her basic human needs? You all subscribe to some moral code that is defined by religon,which has killed, tortured and held humanity's progress back for thousands of years. That is cruel if you ask me. Open your mind that nature gave you andtakle of the blinders.

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

ah, once again, we have found a new religion...someone else bows to the altar of moral relativism...

 

(BTW...for what it's worth, I am agnostic, and religion plays little to no role in my life. What plays a role is the idea that I treat others the way I would want to be treated myself...with honesty)

 

since I am not religious, I guess I'll have to thank something else for your existence...without you, where would all the lonely women find comfort and intimacy...

 

all joking and sarcasm aside...you just don't seem to get it...it's not the having multiple women in your life that gets under people's skin, it's the dishonesty with the one person to whom you made a tacit agreement to be honest...you can dismiss other people's opinions that don't agree with yours all you like ( and I really have to wonder why you even asked the question, seeing as you seem to feel you already know the answer) but I think you'd be hard pressed to find any cultural norm where dishonesty like this

is espoused as an acceptable means to an end...

( and BTW, in spite of your faith in your organizational prowess, you seem to have missed out on the fact that you can't organize nor control people...all it will take is one other woman whom is a wee bit unstable, who invests a bit more emotion into the situation than you realize, and your whole house of cards will fall...I feel very bad for your wife should that ever happen)

Edited September 22, 2012 by frozensprouts

[OpenBook]

What is love? Really, it is a biological response that is hormone driven.

 

Sauron, do you really believe that's all there is to love?? I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around that concept. If I believed that, then it would naturally follow that if we humanoids could remove all the hormones from our bodies, we wouldn't be able to love. Do you believe that as well?