Ross MwcFan Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 ImperfectionisBeauty, do you believe then that you could choose to be gay yourself, and then you would suddenly be attracted to members of the same sex as you, and find having sex with the opposite sex to be horrible? Link to post Share on other sites
Ross MwcFan Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Does not being a bigot instantly equal good person? From what I can tell, ganging up on someone does not make someone "good" by most standards. I knew I shouldn't have touched this dang thread... Nope, but you can't exactly be a good person if you're a bigot. Ganging up on someone who deserves it isn't bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Ross MwcFan Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Does this thread have to descend to the depths that it was destined to? If you're going to ask a Christian their views on whether or not homosexuality is a sin, don't act surprised when they say yes. Don't go all outraged and claiming "bigot!" when the answer is pretty self-explanatory. Biblically, it's a sin. If you're asking a Christian, then they are going to answer with what is in the Bible. Of course, it also says that we shouldn't judge, lest we be judged by the same standards we measure out. Motes and beams I might think homosexuality is a sin, but I don't judge anyone for it. I've enough to judge myself for, and I'd sooner work on getting right with my own sin, than worrying about another person's. I've said it countless times, all sin is equal. Being homosexual is not a greater sin than pre-marital sex. And we all sin. Why do we repent, and ask for forgiveness? If we are asking with all the sincerity of our hearts, and with all the intentions to not do it again, then we can be forgiven, and it's not hypocritical at all. Have you all never made a boo-boo, knowing you were doing the wrong thing, and asked to be forgiven? I made the analogy in the fornication thread of a child asking their parent's forgiveness for disobeying a house rule. The child knowingly stops out after curfew. They know their parent's will rightfully worry, and feel disobeyed, but they also know they will (unless their parents are...not good people) be forgiven. Are they forgiven because they apologize, and promise to not do it again? No, their parents, more than likely, know they WILL do it again, but they are forgiven because their parents love them. God forgives us because He loves us. Stop ganging up on ImperfectionIsBeauty, it's not fair. Granted, the choice of words could have been better employed, but I don't like to see someone ganged up on by a group of people. Also, stop with the race analogies man73, they aren't doing your argument any favors. So murdering some children is as bad as stealing a chocolate bar from the shop? Is this what your religion teaches you? Link to post Share on other sites
Ross MwcFan Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Well, that's a trademark attitude of a bully right there. You know that being a bully makes you a bad person, don't you? But it's OK so long as "they deserve it." I get ya. Ganging up on someone who deserves it doesn't make you a bully. I despise bullies myself, and being one is the last thing I would ever be. I could just as easily say that you saying that I'm bad makes you bad and a bully. Link to post Share on other sites
Ross MwcFan Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Way to miss the point, Ross! You were saying all sin is equal. How did I miss the point? Link to post Share on other sites
Ross MwcFan Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 For the record, the 'ganging up' that has happened seems to have been pretty mild. Link to post Share on other sites
ImperfectionisBeauty Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 ImperfectionisBeauty, do you believe then that you could choose to be gay yourself, and then you would suddenly be attracted to members of the same sex as you, and find having sex with the opposite sex to be horrible? Even if you don't make the choice to be gay you choose to act on it Link to post Share on other sites
Ross MwcFan Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Even if you don't make the choice to be gay you choose to act on it And there's nothing wrong with that, no one is being harmed. You can't excpect them to remain celibate and never experience any romance for the whole of their life. Link to post Share on other sites
ImperfectionisBeauty Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I honestly don't even want to talk about this I just know how I feel. I don't hate gay people or anything I think to each heir own but I know how I feel about it as a whole. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Even if you don't make the choice to be gay you choose to act on it I saw an amazing documentary about religious people who examined their thoughts about "GAY." It's called "For the Bible Tells Me So." It is excellent and I highly recommend it to anyone. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ImperfectionisBeauty Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 And there's nothing wrong with that, no one is being harmed. You can't excpect them to remain celibate and never experience any romance for the whole of their life. So they should also repent for their sin. I mean in the end the bible days no sex before marriage. Gay people can't get married (unless you live in one of those 8 states). It's a super confusing concept to me but in the end I'm not gay so it isn't a huge deal to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Ross MwcFan Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Does it not? So long as "they deserve it," it's OK to gang up on someone. Got it. I'll remind the school yard bullies of that next time I see 'em, they can play the "they deserved it," card when the teachers catch 'em ganging up on a kid. Nice one. I said simply not being a bigot doesn't make you a good person, and ganging up on someone is a bad thing to do. It's tantamount to bullying. But because y'all have got the crowd's backing, it's perfectly fine. Got it. Lol, what I have done in this topic hardly amounts to bullying. In fact if anyone is bullying it is you who is bullying me. I know you were saying not being a bigot doesn't make you a good person. Someone who murders people may not be bigoted. What I was saying is I am a good person, so obviously I'm not a bigot. As for ganging up on someone who deserves it, no of course it's not bullying. If the woman in this topic, was 'properly' being ganged up upon (which has been no where near the case) then I would think that it's out of order. Because I don't think that what she has said in this topic would make her deserve that. Link to post Share on other sites
ImperfectionisBeauty Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I just don't understand why we can't agree to disagree. Obviously you don't believe in God so your views will be different than mine. Link to post Share on other sites
Ross MwcFan Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Fair enough. I apologize. I saw a couple of comments, and got irritated. Okay, no problem. Link to post Share on other sites
ImperfectionisBeauty Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Its not different views. Its your hypocrisy that we are talking about. If the people in the church looked at you as you look at gays you would be saying the same thing. If there were hate groups for people that had premarital sex the you would be in the same boat. Im not saying you hate gays though. Majority of people have premarital sex majority of people aren't gay. Link to post Share on other sites
thatone Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 The funny thing is I'm black. Obviously you can't choose skin color which is why segregation was eventually overturned. I don't like the fact that people who are against gay marriage are "homophobes" and "bigots", maybe we just have certain beliefs and morals and values? Also it comes down to either or not marriage is a right or a privilege. Equal education is a right. the funny thing is you're lined up right next to the people who didn't want you around their white children in the 60s. Link to post Share on other sites
ImperfectionisBeauty Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 the funny thing is you're lined up right next to the people who didn't want you around their white children in the 60s. I understand that but being gay and being black aren't equal Link to post Share on other sites
William Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 After deleting about 20 or so posts, I'll call this thread a Stage Two and invite members to address the topic and refrain from personal and/or racial jabs. As this is the spirituality and religious forum, I think that bare minimum can be expected, but I'll require it anyway. Carry on. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Titanwolf Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) Majority of people have premarital sex majority of people aren't gay. sin is still sin no?. One is not a greater "evil" than another or am I wrong?. If I'm right, then those who had premarital sex will burn alongside the homosexuals right? (that includes you btw). I've even done a little research on this "hell" myself and it was intense research and from what I've gathered, that's also a tool used to control the masses through fear. Being born gay isn't a choice, anyone with reason could understand this, but right now all you're doing is covering your ears, closing your eyes and chanting the mantra "Gay is wrong, Gay is wrong, Gay is wrong". If more people did more thorough research into their religion and it's origins, you will realize that there's A LOT of areas that causes one to raise an eyebrow. Anything can be included in a book and I refuse to believe that the bible the disciples wrote are identical to the bibles and the teachings we have today. A lot of "extra" information have been added, a lot has been taken away. For goodness sake, just the other day, didn't they say that Jesus had a wife?. The fact that this is a discovery, suggests that the bible could easily have been altered and no one would be any the wiser. They believe what ever is written. I'm not even trying to be offensive. This is coming from a former Catholic's opinion, but my religion had always challenged my intelligence for the worst. I had to accept things that did not make sense. The gay "issue" being one of them. I dread to think what would happen if you had a child born gay..the torment he/she would suffer. What will you think of God then? would you think he's testing you? or would you finally accept that homosexuality is almost certainly, a product of nature? Edited September 23, 2012 by Titanwolf Link to post Share on other sites
ImperfectionisBeauty Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 sin is still sin no?. One is not a greater "evil" than another or am I wrong?. If I'm right, then those who had premarital sex will burn alongside the homosexuals right? (that includes you btw). I've even done a little research on this "hell" myself and it was intense research and from what I've gathered, that's also a tool used to control the masses through fear. Being born gay isn't a choice, anyone with reason could understand this, but right now all you're doing is covering your ears, closing your eyes and chanting the mantra "Gay is wrong, Gay is wrong, Gay is wrong". If more people did more thorough research into their religion and it's origins, you will realize that there's A LOT of areas that causes one to raise an eyebrow. Anything can be included in a book and I refuse to believe that the bible the disciples wrote are identical to the bibles and the teachings we have today. A lot of "extra" information have been added, a lot has been taken away. For goodness sake, just the other day, didn't they say that Jesus had a wife?. The fact that this is a discovery, suggests that the bible could easily have been altered and no one would be any the wiser. They believe what ever is written. I'm not even trying to be offensive. This is coming from a former Catholic's opinion, but my religion had always challenged my intelligence for the worst. I had to accept things that did not make sense. The gay "issue" being one of them. I dread to think what would happen if you had a child born gay..the torment he/she would suffer. What will you think of God then? would you think he's testing you? or would you finally accept that homosexuality is almost certainly, a product of nature? First of all don't wish a gay child on me, I would love my kid no matter what but I wouldn't be happy about their decision to go in that direction. As far as sin like I said before if you repent you could possibly spare yourself from hell. Link to post Share on other sites
loveunlimited Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 didn't jesus state your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more? The whole point of repentance is that you then make every effort to not repeat your mistakes. You exercise self-control, restraint and obey God's commandments, period, not go and do it again, because anyway, you can always seek forgiveness again... even the Pope has told Catholic followers that it doesn't work like that.... and i'm not an admirer of catholicism even in its best light. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
loveunlimited Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 You raise an interesting question. I have to admit I have gone back and forth between homosexuality being natural and unnatural. Since, I couldn't come up with some definitive I decided that it really does not matter to me. The only thing that should matter to me is how I treat those who are gay. I will be judged for my actions, not theirs. I love my gay family and friends and I will more than likely try to rip you a new one for mistreating them. my gay relatives are a true gift and while neither of them are god-fearing, or even believe in god, the good they do would shame the most pious, religious and devout of so-called godly people. I would take a bullet for either of them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Eve Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I thought the OP asked a good question. If we are mixing the discussion with faith, I would listen to what gay christians have to say on how they reconcile their orientation and faith. The Great Debate: Are Homosexual Relationships Sinful? Interesting reading. Seems like the issue goes beyond anatomy for some. Take care, Eve x 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Titanwolf Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 First of all don't wish a gay child on me, I would love my kid no matter what but I wouldn't be happy about their decision to go in that direction. As far as sin like I said before if you repent you could possibly spare yourself from hell. *sigh* here we go, trying to take play the victim. I didn't wish a gay child on you, I was entertaining the hypothetical possibility, but I'm sure you know that, you just wanted a reason to be defensive. This is pointless because you're still calling homosexuality a decision. In the same respect, that means that you decided (as in ACTUALLY had a choice between the two sexes) to be sexually attracted to men...I mean really -_- "You could possibility spare yourself from hell?" The closest thing we have to hell is this planet. There is no equivalent and it's thinking like this that causes others to suffer needlessly. I have nothing more to say to you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ImperfectionisBeauty Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 You raise an interesting question. I have to admit I have gone back and forth between homosexuality being natural and unnatural. Since, I couldn't come up with some definitive I decided that it really does not matter to me. The only thing that should matter to me is how I treat those who are gay. I will be judged for my actions, not theirs. I love my gay family and friends and I will more than likely try to rip you a new one for mistreating them. Would God go and rip someone a new one?? Doubtful Link to post Share on other sites
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