Gay

[ImperfectionisBeauty]

What's wrong with you? No one is wishing a gay kid on you.

 

You make having a gay kid sound like a curse or something.

 

Therefore I hope to god that you don't have any gay kids, as it wouldn't be fair on them at all. Can you imagine the damage it would do to the child if their mother saw them as bad and as something to be ashamed of just because of their sexual orientation?

 

I would love my kid no matter what but it isn't ideal

[BetheButterfly]

Forgive me if I'm spamming, I'd just like someone to answer a question for me. If being gay is seen as so wrong and unnatural, why did God create the male body with a prostate that can be stimulated during intercourse involving two men?.

 

Interestingly, God created people with the ability to enjoy sinning in many different ways. Some love the thrill of adrenaline of cheating on their marriage partner. Some love the thrill of stealing. Some people's brains have a sadistic lean and enjoy torturing and murdering people and animals. Again, God created people with the ability to enjoy different kinds of sin. However, that doesn't mean we are supposed to sin.

 

 

Assuming God is omniscient, why wouldn't he account for such a thing?.

He does. God knows how each person is and what is their weakness. For example, my weakness is sexual... I battled with bisexual thoughts when I was a teenager. Even though I was a virgin till I got married at 23, I was very experienced in masturbation and lust in my mind. After my divorce, I had sex outside of marriage. Thank God for His forgiveness!!!

 

By God's grace, I got married to a wonderful man who loves God too a year ago!!! As a happily married lady, it is now my responsibility and joy to be faithful to my husband for God's glory and for our good - both his and mine, to keep the wonderful marriage we have!!!

 

By the way, right now I am listening to

Why Christians Have Sexual Struggles: Sy Rogers

by Sy Rogers.

 

He is an awesome man who had many homosexual experiences before he became a Christian!

 

Fair enough it serves an alternative function, but why is it even a possibility, that it can be stimulated during such an act. It almost seems as though it's there specifically to cater for homosexuals. Would it be wrong for me to assume that segments of the Bible have been fabricated in order to combat some form of "threat" homosexual people propose?. I've thought about it a lot and spoken to a friend about it and she came to the conclusion that homosexual is completely natural. Perhaps that even explains why the female clitoris is located externally, to cater for gay females as well?.

Homosexuality is not the natural means to reproduction. Interestingly, the only way to have a baby without modern technology is for male/female sex. Therefore, heterosexuality is natural and is the natural means of reproduction.

 

Purely speculation here, I can only assume considering that anything that pertains to religion can never be resolved with a definitive answer :/ I want some insight though.

God doesn't give commands to hurt people. He wants people and the earth to be a beautiful and good place, not a place of broken hearts and sexual diseases. Sadly, broken hearts is often a product of sin. Sexual diseases is sadly spread oftentimes through sin. However, God forgives and God wants people to live pure and wonderful lives, no matter the past!

[BetheButterfly]

I personally don't believe in "born gay" I think it is a choice, and I don't believe in homosexual marriage (I know that isn't the question) these are my only thoughts about gayness. Otherwise I couldn't care less I just kind of want to whole gay marriage thing fight to end.

 

I think sexuality (whether homo or hetero or bi) is based on one's personal experiences.

 

About homosexual marriage, I personally admire homosexuals who get married and are faithful to each other. I also admire heterosexuals who get married and are faithful to each other.

 

Although I believe homosexuaity is sin, it is not my place to judge others. Rather, I need to make sure that I obey God. There are many sins, and I am only responsible for making sure that I live according to God's ideal.

[ImperfectionisBeauty]

I think sexuality (whether homo or hetero or bi) is based on one's personal experiences.

 

About homosexual marriage, I personally admire homosexuals who get married and are faithful to each other. I also admire heterosexuals who get married and are faithful to each other.

 

Although I believe homosexuaity is sin, it is not my place to judge others. Rather, I need to make sure that I obey God. There are many sins, and I am only responsible for making sure that I live according to God's ideal.

 

I agree but I would rather not see my country turn to shambles while I am making sure I don't sin. I mean I may as well be a super sinner too lol

[BetheButterfly]

you're avoiding the question which tells me everything i need to know. just to confirm, you were born heterosexual. thanks for clarifying through evasion.

 

Stop picking on her. She did answer. She chooses to act on her attraction to men. That's an answer. I agree with her.

 

By the way...

 

I choose to act on my attraction to men and I married a wonderful one by God's grace!!! By the way, when I was a teenager, I thought I was bisexual after sneakily watching pornography of women on women... I had a choice on being attracted to and acting on the attraction to women, but I never had a real experience with another woman and am thankful that I didn't. Rather, I told my Mom and she, a lovely Christian lady, did not condemn me, but just prayed with me. I got over it and consider myself 100% heterosexual now.

 

It was my choice. If I had wanted to, I could have acted out the temptation and maybe would consider myself bisexual today or homosexual, I don't know. However, praying with my Mom helped me. I struggled with heterosexual sins too, but by God's grace He has forgiven me of all of my sins and is helping me be pure and enjoy sex according to God's guidelines, with my hubby!!!

[BetheButterfly]

It should be a right. Look at all the people who are cheating, abusing their spouses taking them for granted and treating them like crap and trashing them behind their backs. What do gays have to do with any of that?

 

I still don't get why the marriage is even a business of the government.

 

The government doesn't make me be faithful to my marriage vows or not - that's between me and my husband if we keep our marriage vows. So, the government should have nothing to do with marriage.

 

Now, I do think it's important for children to be registered as to who is the child's father and mother. However, that should be with or without the parents being married!

[BetheButterfly]

Reminds me of a verse -

 

Matthew 7:5

 

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

This thread reminds me of the following verses:

 

Romans 1

Romans 1 NIV - Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called - Bible Gateway

 

"24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

 

Interestingly, Rome and Greece both had very active homosexual communities. Now, it is true that Jesus said not to judge. However, do you think Paul was disobeying Jesus in his writing his letter to the Christians in Romans? And to the church in Corinth (1 Corinthians 5)?

 

When I was disobeying God, I knew my Mom would pray with me if I just told her. However, she judged sin. She didn't judge me, but she judged sin.

[BetheButterfly]

didn't jesus state your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more?

 

The whole point of repentance is that you then make every effort to not repeat your mistakes. You exercise self-control, restraint and obey God's commandments, period, not go and do it again, because anyway, you can always seek forgiveness again...

 

.

 

Yep, I 100% agree!!! It's not just enough to ask forgiveness, one needs to repent too.

[mercy]

I saw an amazing documentary about religious people who examined their thoughts about "GAY." It's called "For the Bible Tells Me So." It is excellent and I highly recommend it to anyone.

 

Me too!

[msfreebyme]

For some reason religious people have a more emotional problem with gay people when truly it shouldn't matter at all. These apparent writings in the bible were made by man...not by the hands of god literally therefore to me it is not fact. To me religion is mostly flawed.

[Titanwolf]

For some reason religious people have a more emotional problem with gay people when truly it shouldn't matter at all. These apparent writings in the bible were made by man...not by the hands of god literally therefore to me it is not fact. To me religion is mostly flawed.

 

This is EXACTLY how I feel. Religion is a manifestation of men's hearts. Those hearts that desire control, manipulation and fear. Like I said, if I spoke to God myself (Oh and I tried, believe me) I would again rejoin the fight. However, the fact that the bible and religion is just an exchange of men's ideas and ideals on how to control the masses, causes me to reject the notion that the content of the bible is the direct will of God.

 

Also, to say "It's not my place to judge gay people" fair enough, but what you're essentially saying is "I love my gay friends/family, but when the time comes, I'm sorry but you're going to have to burn forever". Even so, again it wouldn't surprise me to find that the aspects of the bible that touch upon homosexuality and hell were fabricated in order to reject differences in people and cause fear to reel in more "believers". Fear is the most powerful form of control, days gone by has shown us this.

 

Interestingly, God created people with the ability to enjoy sinning in many different ways. Some love the thrill of adrenaline of cheating on their marriage partner. Some love the thrill of stealing. Some people's brains have a sadistic lean and enjoy torturing and murdering people and animals. Again, God created people with the ability to enjoy different kinds of sin. However, that doesn't mean we are supposed to sin.

I understand that but I'm talking about the anatomical regions on/in the body, that suggest that it was placed there specifically for homosexuals to enjoy. You're telling me that God specifically placed a prostate, that could be stimulated during anal sex, in that position just to tempt people to engage in homosexual acts, just so he has a reason to burn them later?. An all powerful being, against homosexuality, would not have placed the prostate in such a position that benefits homosexuals, he could have easily found a way to place it somewhere else. If for some divine reason, it had to be there, he could have made it immune to stimulation from the anal region, or any other alternative my small mind hasn't thought of yet. Female homosexuals bring the same argument. It's humerous to think that architect responsible for every single atom and the way it functions in the universe, would miss such an obvious "flaw" (if it is one) in the human body.

 

It's unnatural for humans to fly of our own volition, hence why we don't have wings. That is something that is truly unnatural because it's not possible if God hasn't made it possible. I believe in God, just a different model to the one I used to believe in.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Titanwolf

[loveunlimited]

thanks quickjoe, I have actually put imperfectionis beauty on ignore. she posted a thread on meeting a guy in a hotel and honestly, i thought that actually by just reading her first post there, she was a hooker which would tie in with her constant re-seeking forgiveness, but then i realised by reading her threads that actually she is quite young, and just very mixed up in her opinions and attitudes. I wouldn't have cared if she had been a hooker frankly, what people choose to do with their lives is their choice;, but her stance is very hypocritical and after some of the things I have experienced in my life, I just cut people like that off in my life. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but i don't need them and attitudes like that are just a complete turn off for me.

sorry everyone, no offense.

[mercy]

Also, to say "It's not my place to judge gay people" fair enough, but what you're essentially saying is "I love my gay friends/family, but when the time comes, I'm sorry but you're going to have to burn forever". Even so, again it wouldn't surprise me to find that the aspects of the bible that touch upon homosexuality and hell were fabricated in order to reject differences in people and cause fear to reel in more "believers". Fear is the most powerful form of control, days gone by has shown us this.

 

 

 

 

The popular scriptures that some relate to being about gays I believe are about the raping of angels and shrine prostitution. The Greek word Arsenokoita, in my opinion relates to shrine prostitution, not gays. No one really knows. All we have is different interpretations, therein lies the problem.

 

Is Arsenokoitai Really that Mysterious? | CRI

 

I'm a christian and a sufi. I've attended church with gays all my life.

 

As for your prostate - who knows. Ask God about it when you get to heaven. Rumor has it He has all the answers.

[ImperfectionisBeauty]

She can't see 'you'!

 

Hence the statement, put you on ignore.

 

 

I know but still I said it so what... And if you put people on ignore they can't see you? I seriously put a few people on ignore and I can still unfortunately see them wtf?!

[JamesM]

After deleting about 20 or so posts, I'll call this thread a Stage Two and invite members to address the topic and refrain from personal and/or racial jabs. As this is the spirituality and religious forum, I think that bare minimum can be expected, but I'll require it anyway. Carry on.

 

You mean it got worse than this!

 

Anyhow, some will think they know my response, and they may be partly right. Harmfulsweetz and BetheButterfly did a great job of responding as I would have so I don't have alot to add, but of course I will.

 

And if it adds to my credibility, I have a few cousins who are either lesbian or homosexual. I have friends who I know are (one with AIDs). I have hired individuals knowing they are gay (and one a pedophile). I have shared a hotel room with a homosexual guy. Simply said, people are people IMO. I like 'em or I don't.

 

I can say that my opinion has changed over the years. Things I know...

 

1. The Bible is clear about God's view of homosexuality. It is considered a sin along with a multitude of others.

 

2. The Bible is clear that God views all sin equally.

 

3. The Bible is clear that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and only those who have repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved.

 

4. The Bible is clear that all people should be treated equally and no one should place themselves above the other.

 

5. God hates the sin and not the sinner. Refer to number 3 and 4.

 

6. The Bible is clear that marriage is between a man and a woman. Marriages that are performed by a minister who states he is acting on the behalf of God can only be between a man and a woman. This does not necessarily mean that government unions should be defined as such.

 

7. Based on my reading the Bible, I find that I have enough sins of my own to make me realize that I don't have time to worry about others. However, this does not mean I cannot stand up and protest against sins which are being accepted in our country as okay. It does mean that I cannot stand up and say that I am better somehow than those who I protest.

 

8. With all of my heart and based on the Bible, I cannot say enough...nobody should be as lower than me or less of a human than I or as less of a citizen as I simply because of this or any other lifestyle choice or sin. Everyone should be respected and treated accordingly.

 

If I felt that there was no God and therefore the Bible is not a valid rule of life, then I could find no basis for arguing against any "sin," because then we have no basis for judging others since morals are based on the Ten Commandments.

 

One thing I don't know.......

 

How does someone become heterosexual or homosexual?

 

Since heterosexual is the norm, then by definition homosexuality is not. I have decided that someone (in most cases) does not choose to be gay. I also cannot say that someone is born (in most cases) gay. It may be true to a degree that there is a gene that predisposes someone to homosexuality as there seems to be one that predisposes someone to alcoholism. I do think that many cases of homosexuality may possibly be a response (not by choice) to a sexual abuse or a family situation. Many homosexuals have a non-existent father or mother. Many have been abused by the parent. And many can point out a sexual abuse situation from a member of the same sex in their early childhood. Not everyone "turns gay" as a result, but yet this cannot be ignored.

 

If our current politics allowed research into why or how people became homosexual as we can research any other non-normal occurrence, then by now, I am certain we would know. If we could have an open and honest search and survey, then some questions would be answered easily. Unfortunately, both sides (as seen by this thread ) take it to personally one way or the other to prevent this.

 

 

My 2c worth.

[loveunlimited]

it is kind of ridiculous that you can put a person on ignore, but still read their posts if someone quotes them; it kind of defeats the object in a way.

Well really i'm not bothered, it's frankly a waste of time appealing to someone's better nature if you've already ignored them...but it does seem weird. I'm on a website here in the uk where if you ignore someone, you don't get to see their comments even if someone else does quote them, but i don't know how they do that.

[JamesM]

her stance is very hypocritical and after some of the things I have experienced in my life, I just cut people like that off in my life. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but i don't need them and attitudes like that are just a complete turn off for me.

sorry everyone, no offense.

 

no offense...but why the name loveunlimited if you are turned off by people who are not perfect?

 

I don't mean to be critical or judgmental, but the irony did catch my attention.

[Titanwolf]

The popular scriptures that some relate to being about gays I believe are about the raping of angels and shrine prostitution. No one really knows. All we have is different interpretations, therein lies the problem.

 

Here we have it in a nutshell. It's really about popular belief, aka herd mentality. Once you leave something as powerful as religion to man's interpretation, it's guaranteed that they will find a way to profit and gain advantage from it. The problem is, no one knows anything really and all else is speculation, based on a book written by men. Realistically, anyone can create a religion. Look at Scientology.

[loveunlimited]

it very much depends who the love is unlimited for, isn't it?

It doesn't say loveunconditional. This is in reply to JamesM.

[Els]

The funny thing is I'm black. Obviously you can't choose skin color which is why segregation was eventually overturned. I don't like the fact that people who are against gay marriage are "homophobes" and "bigots", maybe we just have certain beliefs and morals and values? Also it comes down to either or not marriage is a right or a privilege. Equal education is a right.

 

But why do you feel that people can 'choose' their sexual preferences?

 

Let's put it this way. If, hypothetically, the world changed entirely and it was only considered 'morally right' for women to be with women, would you be able to CHOOSE to only be with women? Why does this not apply the other way around?

[William]

I know but still I said it so what... And if you put people on ignore they can't see you? I seriously put a few people on ignore and I can still unfortunately see them wtf?!

Note from moderation:

 

Clicking on this link will take a member to their ignore list:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/profile.php?do=ignorelist

 

Adding a member and confirming the addition will block viewing of the ignored member's postings and disable PM access from that member. It will *not* block the ignored member from viewing the originating member's postings if the originating member is not on the ignored member's ignore list.

 

On the thread list page, ignored members screennames will still be visible but all other information and their posts will be blocked, with the option to view if desired. On the forum list page, ignored members starting post titles will still be visible. I'll add this information to the announcements. Thanks. Carry on.

[JamesM]

it very much depends who the love is unlimited for, isn't it?

It doesn't say loveunconditional. This is in reply to JamesM.

 

No, but then there IS a limit!

 

Just a comment and certainly not a derail.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Can you even IMAGINE the mindset of a heterosexual, "normal" person just getting the idea in his or her head one day, "boy howdy! I think it would rock to be gay! I'm gonna be! From here on out!"

 

I think it would be almost unthinkable that anyone would or could do that, though it's probably possible.

 

I know that some people do experience their own sexuality and approach to loving others in a very open and experimental way, and people like that might just "choose" to try stuff out. I also know for a fact that some people are not completely gender specific when they are getting attracted and feelings for others. True "bisexual" people.

 

And if you believe that being "promiscuous" (by that I mean being sexually adventurous with multiple people) is hated by God, I hope you believe that he hates it when it's straight sex or gay sex equally.

 

Anyway, I don't think that anyone, Christian or not, who has close relationships with any gay people can really and truly believe that those people simply "chose" to be gay.

 

And I also don't believe that anyone, Christian or not, can believe deeply in their heart that if someone really is a gay person, that they should refrain to "act" upon that because it's a sin. "Acting" upon it is not necessarily having supposedly debauched gay sex. It can mean experiencing love (AND) sex with a compatible fellow human being.

 

That can't be reserved for heteros. Unless we are going to agree that ALL romantic and sexual love and expressions thereof need to be relegated to procreative-related scenarios in order to be OK with God.

[loveunlimited]

No, but then there IS a limit!

 

Just a comment and certainly not a derail.

if you must know it's in reference to the tune by the

. It was 'our' tune.

[Eclypse]

If someone has a valid reason for not liking gays or believing they shouldn't get married, then that's fine.

 

But I don't think it's fine to go spouting off all this stuff just because a 2000 year old book told you. A book that was written by many random people and translated many times before reaching its current form. And we all know what happens there, it's like first grade Chinese whispers. I just find it baffling that so many people, many of them intelligent, display such blind faith? Isn't free will and the ability to use rational thinking an integral part of who we are? If your only excuse for some of the things said about gays here is "the bible says so" then you need to work harder. Being a sheep is about the worst possible thing you can be, especially today.

 

I am a scientist, and I don't take everything other scientists say as the gospel truth right away. I don't jump on the climate change bandwagon just because it's the trendy thing to do before reading all I can and making an informed decision. The most important aspect of science, as many will tell you, is the ability for your findings and papers to stand up to proper peer review. People however, blindly accept the bible. Why? What is one good reason gay love is less valid than hetero love? Were the writers of the bible gay? How do they know if it's a sin or not? What gives them a right to say its a sin? We have worked for decades to get rid of the "old boys club" in the workplace to make it more equal. Why haven't we done that for the bible? Doesn't anyone scrutinize the people who wrote it? It was all written many years after the events it described, and often through second or third hand accounts.

 

Anyway, what I say won't change anyone's opinion but I just ask you to open your minds. I am glad my country no longer burns people at the stake or stones them. Others however, are not so lucky.