Don't love my wife or find her attractive anymore

[Got it]

No you are not confused. She has indicated in the past that if I wanted to divorce her she would agree to an amicable, mediated approach to a divorce rather than dragging this all through the court system. BUT, she also said this in a very emotional state. I know women are typically more "passionate" about things, but I wish I could show you how crazy she gets. I can't take that anymore and do almost anything to avoid it. She doesn't get physical, but it's like dealing with someone coming off drugs (only way I can describe it).

 

Here's how I know I am done. As I mentioned earlier, she received a series of texts from someone she knew back in high school. There wasn't one ounce of jealousy, not one! I was almost "relieved"!

 

I only want happiness for her. She says she wants to go see a counselor and wants to work on the marriage. I just don't. I feel like asking her, "Where the h*ll have you been?!". I've been trying to work on this for years but there is so much damage here, it's beyond repair.

 

When you can say, with no emotion, no fear, no remorse that you are done. I think you just are.

 

I agree and that was where I was. After years of investing energy you get to a point that one more drop seems like the most utterly exhausting thing to do. And I feel/felt the same way, I had no jealousy over my ex and wouldn't have cared if he had cheated. He started dating very quickly and there was no jealousy over it, never any thought of wanting back. I had/have absolutely no sexual desire for him and view him as a brother/friend. The only things that I had to reconcile were some beliefs/practices that he held firm to in our relationship that he did a 180 on afterwards, things that I had asked him to be more open to, but he had no desire. Another was misappropriation of funds. He made good but not until I noticed it.

 

C'est la vie. Life is too short to hold grudges and to be upset over it. I saw it as a square peg round hole and how can I get upset with him for being a square peg? But I was tired of trying to change my shape to make it fit. We just didn't. No right, no wrong, just no fit. He isn't perfect but he isn't a bad guy. I think he has a lot of great qualities and I think he is SO much happier with his new wife. I am very happy about that and really I just wanted him to be happy. It wasn't with me.

[Got it]

What,

If you wish to improve yourself, so that your next relationship is not a train wreck like this one, the best way to do that is to give your current marriage a well defined time period for recovery.

 

This is a suggestion from a well meaning stranger, take it for what it is worth.

 

If your wife wishes to go to MC, you absolutely should. Without ANY further discussion I would tell her: I agree we should attend MC together and to see if we can fix our marriage. If possible, please schedule the appointment for x or y or z times. If not, I will find a way to make it work.

 

Thats it. Not another word about it. If she doesn't make the appointment during the next two weeks you should find a MC, get some possible dates/times from them and then ask your wife which is best for her. If she does not attend, do a 180 at home to deliver the message that you are not going to tolerate a marriage where you pretend everything is ok.

 

If she does attend MC, then you need to go into the first session prepared to listen mostly and not talk too much. Except for one thing, I think you need to give each other some homework. You each need to write down the main things you think that YOU have done to get the marriage to almost dead. And then you will read the list to each other and ask what you left out, add it and APOLOGIZE to each other. The basis for that is simple. If you lack the respect for each other to apologize for harming each other, MC is a waste of breath.

 

Apologies: I am not going to call this “conflict” management. Because there are folks who excel at “jumping over” their own bad behavior. Literally they pretend like nothing happened, and they often get away with it. This is a big aspect of a relationship, maybe even be THE biggest one. We all make mistakes, treat each other unfairly, etc. The list below goes from your basic perfect world, slowly down the steps to Hell. For the purpose of this discussion, let’s pick a case where a few things are true. (1) Your partner has very clearly treated you badly. (2) There is no way they would tolerate you doing to them, what they just did to you. (3) You are no longer “in the moment”, and in fact have some quality time in which the event can/should be addressed.

 

I call this section “apologies” only because that is actually the standard way in which 21st century people think about redress. The irony is that a “spoken” apology might mean a lot, and it might mean almost nothing. You cannot tell the first time around. You can however tell if someone keeps doing the same “unkind” thing to you and then sincerely apologizing. Those apologies are hollow.

 

1. GOLD STANDARD: THEY bring it up shortly after it happens. They don’t wait to see if you will let it go. THEY believe you deserve better than that. They apologize, commit to behaving better next time, and do something nice for you to show their contrition is sincere.

2. When you bring it up they apologize, commit to fixing it and perform some acts of contrition.

3. They don’t apologize but they DO commit to not repeating the behavior. If sincere, this is actually WAY more important than an apology.

4. They sincerely apologize but avoid committing to change. Beware the “empty” apology that means nothing. This step is however a positive step. By the second or third empty apology you simply begin insisting on a commitment to improve.

5. They flat out refuse to commit to handling that type situation differently/better in the future

6. They give you the non-apology. Some variation of “I am sorry if that hurt your feelings”. The implication is that you are too sensitive.

7. They go into “lawyer” mode and explain that while normally this behavior is frowned on, in this specific case it was justified by “insert long, self serving rationalization”.

8. They directly blame you. If only you hadn’t forgotten to take about the trash on Memorial day 3 years ago, they wouldn’t still be angry and would never have done this.

9. They deny the whole thing. Look you in the eye and deny that it ever happened.

10. They deny the whole thing and attack you for even SUGGESTING they might do something like that.

11. They deny, attack you for suggesting it and then blow it up into “I am not even talking to you until you apologize” for even saying such a thing.

 

mem - if he is done with the marriage to where he can't stir up any emotions to care who and what his wife is interacting with why the need to address it in MC?

 

I can see the desire to have it in one's back pocket if the divorce gets messy as collateral but trying to address it? I don't know.

[WhatASituation]

mem - if he is done with the marriage to where he can't stir up any emotions to care who and what his wife is interacting with why the need to address it in MC?

 

I can see the desire to have it in one's back pocket if the divorce gets messy as collateral but trying to address it? I don't know.

 

Got it, did you try separation first or just went straight to divorce? If so, how did it play out for you?

[mem11363]

What,

Consider this, you attend one counseling session during which you give your wife a short list if things she must start doing immediately in order for you to delay filing.

You deliver this list nicely in the form of: in order for the marriage to have any chance she needs to demonstrate through actions that you are a high priority.

 

Tell her that physicality needs to resume and as a start you will accept the idea of a full body massage not leading to sex twice a week. I would say an hour each. I think she will say no and then you will have prevented her from telling everyone even the kids that you weren't even willing to try. Actually she may say she needs to 'think about it', I would firmly tell her that if she isn't willing to make such a small effort the marriage is totally dead and best acknowledged as such.

 

 

QUOTE=WhatASituation;4284066]Got it, did you try separation first or just went strai

 

ght to divorce? If so, how did it play out for you?

[WhatASituation]

What,

Consider this, you attend one counseling session during which you give your wife a short list if things she must start doing immediately in order for you to delay filing.

You deliver this list nicely in the form of: in order for the marriage to have any chance she needs to demonstrate through actions that you are a high priority.

 

Tell her that physicality needs to resume and as a start you will accept the idea of a full body massage not leading to sex twice a week. I would say an hour each. I think she will say no and then you will have prevented her from telling everyone even the kids that you weren't even willing to try. Actually she may say she needs to 'think about it', I would firmly tell her that if she isn't willing to make such a small effort the marriage is totally dead and best acknowledged as such.

 

 

QUOTE=WhatASituation;4284066]Got it, did you try separation first or just went strai

 

ght to divorce? If so, how did it play out for you?

 

 

Wow mem, I have to admit I am a bit surprised at this as it seems you were advising me to do everything to save this. This is a terrific idea and I will take it under advisement. Thank you for ALL of your thoughts!

[mem11363]

What,

ALL sexless marriages are predicated on one thing. The "refuser" has totally deprioritized their "pursuer". They ALL have that in common.

 

The the refuser will say that isn't true, that they do LOTS of things for their pursuer. They cook, and ..., ..., and ...

 

But it turns out those are all things they either WANT to do or HAVE to do for themselves anyway. When you ask: What is it you do for your spouse that you DO NOT WANT TO DO, but do PURELY because it is IMPORTANT TO THEM? If you ask that question, you will get a stunned silence. Followed by an attempt to change the subject, an attempt to blameshift or them getting up and walking out claiming they are being ATTACKED.

 

The "body massage/back massage" is a litmus test. If they won't do that, then you have zero chance of repair.

 

It is also true that you now have the moral high ground with the kids and your extended family and your social circle. Humans NEED a certain amount of TOUCH to be emotionally healthy. This is a NEED, not a want. Deny them that touch, and they slowly wither. Your wifes refusal to even give you a couple massages a week is a huge **** u to all the financial support and other stuff you do for HER.

 

And I think your best chance of saving the marriage is to bet the marriage. If she is non-committal in responding to that request, you just smile and say "babe, 7 days from now it will either have happened or not, I really am ok either way". If this request is simply too much trouble for you we should both accept that EACH of us deserves a shot at happiness and we aren't going to have that in this marriage.

 

And then don't debate. Don't argue. Don't do anything. She may say you are giving her an ultimatum and that is unacceptable. Do not respond to that. I mean it. Be silent. This is not a subject for debate. It is a boundary. Boundaries are described not debated. Your W is likely to flip out when you refuse to discuss this. And honestly if this was 13 years ago at the start of your issues I would suggest you explaining it gently. But to change your current dynamic she is going to need to understand you are serious. And the more you TALK/EXPLAIN/DEFEND the weaker she will perceive your resolve.

 

She may counter offer - how about once a week. Again - I would remain silent because THAT request is her attempt to bottom fish. To find the absolute bare minimum you will tolerate from her in terms of effort. That is a train wreck in motion. If she counters, just shake your head no. If you really feel the need to speak - the one word "no" in a firm voice is ok.

 

If she asks how you came up with the 2/week for an hour each thing, just shrug. I would also add that if she comes to you and says "fine lets go, I will give you your stupid massage", just laugh at her. And don't move. I mean it. The point is for her to show you she WANTS to please you. THAT is the whole point of this. If she is going to be unloving about it - you will not feel good afterwards. Trust me on that. It will defeat the whole exercise.

 

So perhaps when you fist describe it - you need to make that point: She needs to do it, and she needs to convey by her tone/attitude that she WANTS it to be a positive experience for you. So a unfriendly/cold/indifferent posture on her part will be a non-starter.

 

If you do not do this. If the MC is just talking about feelings this is what you will eventually discover. When you want her to actually DO SOMETHING for you, she will insist that before doing anything ALL her FEELINGS need to be addressed. However when she wants something from you, say continued access to a large amount of extra discretionary income from your paycheck, she will tolerate nothing less than complete and immediate compliance.

 

So your standard will be ONLY what you do for her. And her standard will be only "talking about her feelings". And THAT is why most MC is total horse-shlt. Because one of the spouses gets away with THAT.

 

 

 

Wow mem, I have to admit I am a bit surprised at this as it seems you were advising me to do everything to save this. This is a terrific idea and I will take it under advisement. Thank you for ALL of your thoughts!

[WhatASituation]

@mem: She's trying to get me to MC and honestly, I really don't have the energy nor the desire.

 

@abelincoln: I enjoyed the "tough love" approach to your response. It actually made me really look at somethings in this marriage and I can't say it "opened my eyes" because I think I knew deep down inside a lot of these things are accurate. My first born was DNA tested because I had just that concern when I first heard she was pregnant (and that was another fun episode, let me tell ya).

 

We actually had sex last night, it was great because it's just been a while but it was just "sex". I think it was only sex for her too. I just want out of this and be alone for a while.

[2sunny]

Yes agreed. The texts stopped the next day and she closed her FB account. Unless they are communicating some other way??

 

Of course they are.

[2sunny]

@mem: She's trying to get me to MC and honestly, I really don't have the energy nor the desire.

 

@abelincoln: I enjoyed the "tough love" approach to your response. It actually made me really look at somethings in this marriage and I can't say it "opened my eyes" because I think I knew deep down inside a lot of these things are accurate. My first born was DNA tested because I had just that concern when I first heard she was pregnant (and that was another fun episode, let me tell ya).

 

We actually had sex last night, it was great because it's just been a while but it was just "sex". I think it was only sex for her too. I just want out of this and be alone for a while.

 

That sex is what I call "manipulation sex".

 

It sucks!

[WhatASituation]

That sex is what I call "manipulation sex".

 

It sucks!

 

Probably, and the more I really look into this marriage the more I don't know who I married.

[2sunny]

You want to get D - and you have valid reasons - then go ahead and get it done.

 

Next time find a gal that considers your feelings and one that respects and honors you... This one doesn't.

[AnotherRound]

That sex is what I call "manipulation sex".

 

It sucks!

 

Yep. Withholding intimacy from your spouse is a form of abuse - I don't care what some folks WANT to call it. It is abusive, and manipulative. And here's a newsflash - if you are a spouse, and you DON'T want to be intimate with your spouse - then you are in the WRONG relationship. Sex is the ONLY thing that separates our SO relationship from all the others in our lives. If a partner is not willing to participate in that intimacy with me, then we are just FRIENDS, not lovers/not intimate/not SOs.

 

Anyone that manipulates in ANY relationship is abusing their partner - emotionally and psychologically. If this is how someone gets what they "want" or "punishes" or withdraws - and they have NO desire to attempt to fix it, the relationship is dead, and there is no point to trying to revive it in my opinion. If you have to BEG your SO to be intimate with you, then the relationship is DONE.

 

I have no understanding of WHY people stay in situations like this. It's so pointless to flog yourself bc you made a decision years ago that was either misguided or wrong or no longer fits you. Count your losses and move on. Divorce is not the end of the world, kids are resilient and will adjust just fine, as you and your ex will. It's not a death sentence - in fact, it's a life sentence in that it will allow you both the chance to find partners that you are compatible with, AND it will allow your children to see mom and dad finally happy (instead of miserable, or unconnected). You will have the chance to model what a relationship SHOULD look like to your children, and they will benefit so much from having two parents who are at peace, instead of two parents who are unhappy all the time.

 

Good luck. Sorry it didn't work out, but I can almost guarantee that after it is all said and done, you will wonder why you waited so long to divorce in the first place. I did...

[Got it]

Got it, did you try separation first or just went straight to divorce? If so, how did it play out for you?

 

My state requires a year separation before divorce so we just waiting that out. We did not have attorneys. He moved on quickly as well and is now married to the girl he started dating a few months after our split. They actually just had their first child.

 

I know the biggest piece for us was we didn't have kids together, made the same income, and the only thing negative was a house underwater. But there wasn't either party that felt they needed to "hang" on to the other for financial or offspring reasons.

 

My parents divorced amicably when the youngest turned 18 and it was a very quiet divorce without any major negativity. My father gave my mom the proceeds from the house (outside of paying off some debt) so she could buy another/smaller place. They have proceeded in that light since then and have remained amicable. In fact they have gone on vacation together multiple times.

 

While my parents may not have done marriage right they have definitely done divorce right and truly put the kids first and made sure that everyone gets alone and can still do things together. Regardless of their marital status and whether they are dating, we are still a family. Just a little different than before. It didn't have to die just because they divorced. It takes both parties actively working towards that but I have a lot of respect for them for doing so.

 

That is the approach I have taken with my ex. It doesn't have to be this black and white, doom and gloom, thing. Just a transition.

[WhatASituation]

My state requires a year separation before divorce so we just waiting that out. We did not have attorneys. He moved on quickly as well and is now married to the girl he started dating a few months after our split. They actually just had their first child.

 

I know the biggest piece for us was we didn't have kids together, made the same income, and the only thing negative was a house underwater. But there wasn't either party that felt they needed to "hang" on to the other for financial or offspring reasons.

 

My parents divorced amicably when the youngest turned 18 and it was a very quiet divorce without any major negativity. My father gave my mom the proceeds from the house (outside of paying off some debt) so she could buy another/smaller place. They have proceeded in that light since then and have remained amicable. In fact they have gone on vacation together multiple times.

 

While my parents may not have done marriage right they have definitely done divorce right and truly put the kids first and made sure that everyone gets alone and can still do things together. Regardless of their marital status and whether they are dating, we are still a family. Just a little different than before. It didn't have to die just because they divorced. It takes both parties actively working towards that but I have a lot of respect for them for doing so.

 

That is the approach I have taken with my ex. It doesn't have to be this black and white, doom and gloom, thing. Just a transition.

 

Thanks Got it, I'm glad it's worked out for you and it's probably a lot easier without kids. I think I've decided to just separate so I have that buffer zone with her. She can get SO emotional and at least I would have a place to go to so she and I both can just cool off and talk things through. Again, I don't want to get to the point of resenting her, it's not fair to her or the kids. It's a transition not the death of the family.

[WhatASituation]

If she is still actually having sex with you and you both are enjoying it, despite my tough love approach and whatever the past mistakes have been, I think there is still hope for your marriage.

 

It's when the sex completely dries up or it's just duty sex on the spouse's part that it seems mostly hopeless.

 

I don't care if she thinks she's gaming you by having sex with you, as long as she's getting something out of it, she's still bound to you on a very primal level.

 

You need to go full-on "caveman", set your boundaries, lay down the law, and try to completely dominate her--in a loving way of course.

 

She will continue to push the boundaries and shyte test you to the max so be ready for it and be prepared to be constantly tested by her but also always show her who's the boss in the relationship.

 

You may have to really change your mental and emotional approach but usually in your type of situation this works as well as anything with a spouse like yours, at least judging from other threads on here.

 

You know abe, yes we've had sex in the past week but it was just "sex". Hell we both just get up and roll over to go to sleep after we are done. To me it was "duty sex". I know so many on here would not want to see a marriage fall apart and see two people with kids go their separate ways, but when I really look at the situation, I don't even want it to improve. I just want out and learn how to co-parent and be friendly towards each other.

 

One point you made earlier, is that you said we weren't honest in the reasons why we got married in the first place. I think that's exactly correct. I knocked her up, it was my "duty" to marry her and although I really did love her, I think that maybe she really didn't love me and wasn't 100% honest with herself. I think it's time to just move on while we are both relatively still young.

[2sunny]

Yep. Withholding intimacy from your spouse is a form of abuse - I don't care what some folks WANT to call it. It is abusive, and manipulative. And here's a newsflash - if you are a spouse, and you DON'T want to be intimate with your spouse - then you are in the WRONG relationship. Sex is the ONLY thing that separates our SO relationship from all the others in our lives. If a partner is not willing to participate in that intimacy with me, then we are just FRIENDS, not lovers/not intimate/not SOs.

 

Anyone that manipulates in ANY relationship is abusing their partner - emotionally and psychologically. If this is how someone gets what they "want" or "punishes" or withdraws - and they have NO desire to attempt to fix it, the relationship is dead, and there is no point to trying to revive it in my opinion. If you have to BEG your SO to be intimate with you, then the relationship is DONE.

 

I have no understanding of WHY people stay in situations like this. It's so pointless to flog yourself bc you made a decision years ago that was either misguided or wrong or no longer fits you. Count your losses and move on. Divorce is not the end of the world, kids are resilient and will adjust just fine, as you and your ex will. It's not a death sentence - in fact, it's a life sentence in that it will allow you both the chance to find partners that you are compatible with, AND it will allow your children to see mom and dad finally happy (instead of miserable, or unconnected). You will have the chance to model what a relationship SHOULD look like to your children, and they will benefit so much from having two parents who are at peace, instead of two parents who are unhappy all the time.

 

Good luck. Sorry it didn't work out, but I can almost guarantee that after it is all said and done, you will wonder why you waited so long to divorce in the first place. I did...

 

Not only is it manipulative and abusive when she withholds the sex - its the made into a "power play" when she puts it out there.

 

None of which are a good thing...

[stillafool]

Since you aren't in love with her anymore and don't find her attractive anymore, plus her past history, I think your marriage is done. You may as well go ahead and file. Separating from her is not going to make you fall back in love with her or think she's attractive anymore so why waste anymore of your time or hers.

 

You may not feel it but your wife is still good in bed. What makes her good in bed is desire for the man. If she doesn't really desire you you will not feel it.

[WhatASituation]

Since you aren't in love with her anymore and don't find her attractive anymore, plus her past history, I think your marriage is done. You may as well go ahead and file. Separating from her is not going to make you fall back in love with her or think she's attractive anymore so why waste anymore of your time or hers.

 

You may not feel it but your wife is still good in bed. What makes her good in bed is desire for the man. If she doesn't really desire you you will not feel it.

 

You're right still, it's time to stick a fork in this. It's easy to be bitter and choose to hate her but I choose not to do that. I'm sure she could choose to hate me as well, which I hope she won't, because obviously I didn't do things for her and she may have a laundry list of things I did wrong too. We were mismatched from the beginning and weren't honest about why we got married in the first place. She gave me three amazing kids. No regrets here at all!

[Lucky_One]

I'm a little surprised that no one has touched upon the fact that this woman was raped prior to marriage. There is also a certain sense of resentment from the OP that she "did things" with frat brothers that she will not do with him. His wife has clearly stated that she did those things because she didn't care - a common occurrence after sexual assault (her body and its desires didn't matter to the rapist, so why should they matter to her?)

 

And now, in a marriage that she feels occurred simply because she was pregnant (and where her H clearly had doubts as to her fidelity to him evidenced by his asking for a paternity test), she feels a certain disconnect from her body and its sexuality.

 

Sounds like counseling is in order - singly and as a couple.

 

It's just not so easy to *make* yourself have sex with someone you love, if there is an emotional disconnect. Some posters are advocating a making a demand for a sexual commitment, and IMHO, until her past history of sexual assault is resolved, she will not be able to give that sexual commitment freely or in a healthy manner; she could likely feel *semi-assualted* in a place where she should be safe and free to tell her own desires/wants.

[Lucky_One]

"Fit"? Seriously? You think that victims of sexual assault are not fit to be married?

 

Wow. I am not going there....

 

Anyway, yes, I think that a victim of sexual assault is still "fit" to be married, but I think it is pretty important that he/she receive counseling for that. I wouldn't expect my husband to divorce me for my having a physical illness, nor would I expect him to divorce me for having an emotional one.

[Sw3etdev1L]

If you are here trying to get an answer from strangers instead of knowing that what you want is divorce is because I believe you still care for her.

 

It seems as if when you had your children, her attention went to her children completely and that what you want is her to be attentive to you also, and have sex with you too.

 

Well, you can tell her that.

 

You can tell her that what you want is sex and for her to divide her attention to you and to your kids.

 

It seems as if your communication is good. Everybody talks about those things with their couples. But that doesn't seem to be what you are arguing about.

 

It's normal that you fell into routine. If you want experiences as a couple with her, you have to create those experiences.. Maybe adventure, maybe culture, maybe concerts, I don't know.. The only way to be integrated with your partner and keep on loving your partner is to keep on having fun with your partner. Doing things together! Outside the house! Take the kids with their grandma and have some time together as a couple. Even if you talk about your kids. I mean, your kids are an important part of your relationship because they are the product of your relationship. YOu have to know that, you don't stop getting to know someone just because society says so.. getting to know your partner is something daily, because people do change, people want different things from life too, different tastes, different feelings and hopes.

[Lucky_One]

I doubt I would want to have healthy sexual relations with a man who said that I was "claiming" to have an illness or a pre-existing condition.

 

I call it sexual assault, because the OP called it rape.

 

The mind is a pretty delicate thing. A person may think that they are coping well mentally, but the issues manifest in physical ways. There could even be hormonal issues that are causing her to have abnormally low libido, and an actual medical check-up could be a really important step, as well.

 

I am personally loathe to jump onto a "get a divorce" bandwagon until underlying issues are worked on jointly. I have been divorced, it isn't great for children, it isn't great for society, and I don't like throwing babies out with bathwater.

[WhatASituation]

I'm going to have to agree with Doug on this one. I have tried for nearly two decades to SHOW her that I love her, to get counseling, treat her with the utmost respect and be sympathetic to what's happened to her. But at the same time, to find out how promiscuous she was before we got married and then to shut off sexuality to me is a HUGE slap in the face.

[veryhappy]

I suggest you let her know you are working towards divorce, and she should let you know what kind of counseling she suggests the two of you attend togebet or separately if she wants one last chance.

 

You need to move beyond her promiscuous youth. Many people do things that are not representative for the rest of their lives when they are young. Focus on the present and what you want from her now.

 

Be prepared to be cornered into being made irresponsible for leaving your family, and not keeping your promises of "forever".

[WhatASituation]

I suggest you let her know you are working towards divorce, and she should let you know what kind of counseling she suggests the two of you attend togebet or separately if she wants one last chance.

 

You need to move beyond her promiscuous youth. Many people do things that are not representative for the rest of their lives when they are young. Focus on the present and what you want from her now.

 

Be prepared to be cornered into being made irresponsible for leaving your family, and not keeping your promises of "forever".

 

Agreed cutedragon, I am fully prepared for her to try to make me out to be the bad guy. I will suggest we go to counseling so we can co-parent effectively and be able to get along as best as we can.

 

I don't care about her promiscuous youth, I care about her un-promiscous marriage with me and ALL of the other rejections I put up with while trying to "date her" again along with other things I haven't mentioned here. I am NOT suggesting I am the perfect husband and she's a horrible wife but the constant sexual and non-sexual rejections get old after 15 years.