Who broke the vows first?

[AnotherRound]

Another Round:

I hope it's okay w/you that I comment... ( being the "BS" and all) but you have been SO great to me "on the other side"** your thread here and wantingmore's thread are the only OW threads I am intruding on, promise.

 

Please understand, this is ONLY in response to my personal situation, okay?

 

My husband & I came together w/nothing. It was awesome because everything we have has been worked for together. We supported each other and made agreements w/each other so that we could create a family, provide for them, take care of them w/out using daycare. For a few years that meant me staying home, being there for the kids, stepping up and performing ALL household responsibilities ( unless I didn't know how ie; fixing the lawn mower etc...) I made him lunch everyday and not enough sex was NEVER an issue no matter how tired I was. ( my Dad once told me that "if a man isn't being provided for at home, then he'll get it elsewhere" Don't know why but it stuck)

 

We then began our now growing & successful Company together and I added full time mom & business woman to my plate. The sex did NOT wane but the intimacy did somewhat on my part because I felt I was not getting ANY. help on his part at home and for me to maintain my health & fitness so as NOT to "let myself go" so to speak.

 

I had gone from a size four to a six. It wasn't so much the size but the "firmness" that was an issue, ya know? *

 

Then I guess he hooked up w/this OW. again I didn't know about it til it was over for ten months. But our sex life NEVER waned during this time.

 

I just wanted to tell you this because my story is not a generality as stated in the beginning thread. But I feel that my FWH was lacking the other types of attention he needed (constant attention) and found it for a time w/this OW who had none of the responsibilities that I did. It ended up being, she gave him more than he even wanted. But that is his (was) his choice.

 

Since the "out" of his A, I have actually gained more of a voice, we have split some of the household stuff, we both excersize & are healthy and the sex (as always) still all the time but the intimacy is back .

I just wanted to give you some hope like you have given me, that not all situations are the same. And thanks to you, I am REALLY getting my self confidence back!

I'll go back to the creepy BS side now**

 

Lol at you! I ALWAYS love your posts, and you are not intruding.

 

First of all - a size 6? You know you are beautiful and that was NEVER the issue! I haven't been a size 6 since probably 4th grade! lol I wish!

 

In your situation, the relationship was not 50/50, as he was not pulling his weight. In that case, I would say he was at fault for that. Like I said, it works both ways. If he agreed to have children and to the business (I'm assuming he did) then he had a responsibility to pull his weight in the relationship too. When he didn't, he was breaking his own vows to you, the contract of marriage.

 

Also, I don't think you (or he) pulled a bait and switch. When I enter a relationship, I am VERY clear what my expectations are, and my boundaries are, and what I'm willing to provide. If I go into the relationship, and then change that, it would be my fault, I would be breaking the contract, and I would take my lumps for that.

 

I'm talking here more about people who knowingly present themselves dishonestly to get an end result - marriage, children, etc. - and then expect the other spouse to stick it out, even though the contract is already being broken by them.

 

And lol... I don't think the BS side is creepy at all. I explored there many years ago when I was a BS. I just don't agree with a lot of what is said there, or thought there. Not creepy, just different.

[ComingInHot]

Alimony and child support. Is there ever a reason?

For me, and at my age, in regards to alimony, I am perfectly able to work. And I enjoy the fact that I am a financial contributor to my family & society* But I wonder, what if I were fifty five or sixty five and hadn't been in the job force. I think, if it had been the arrangement, I would want/expect something while I was trying to gain employment, if I could gain employment. I hope actually I know that won't be the case as both of my kids are in school and I do work. But just an idea?**

 

Child support in the above scenario wouldn't matter at that point as they'd be over eighteen. Asde from that child support is a definite so long as it is used FOR. The children**

[ComingInHot]

Another Round:

 

You are AWESOME!!

 

I also had NO idea you've been on more than one wide of the triangle. That really gives you a broader view of things.

 

I get now what you're saying bout the vow breaking...** very god topic! I'll go back and think about that for a bit then return to give my deep insight into the question w/the solution everybody will want... NOT!! **

[AnotherRound]

Alimony and child support. Is there ever a reason?

For me, and at my age, in regards to alimony, I am perfectly able to work. And I enjoy the fact that I am a financial contributor to my family & society* But I wonder, what if I were fifty five or sixty five and hadn't been in the job force. I think, if it had been the arrangement, I would want/expect something while I was trying to gain employment, if I could gain employment. I hope actually I know that won't be the case as both of my kids are in school and I do work. But just an idea?**

 

Child support in the above scenario wouldn't matter at that point as they'd be over eighteen. Asde from that child support is a definite so long as it is used FOR. The children**

 

Which is exactly why I would never agree to be a SAHM and give up all of my earning ability - my independence, and my contributions to society and to my relationship. I think if one does, then they are choosing that , and should be prepared for a very tough road if the relationship ever ends.

 

I know that society thinks it is "noble" for women to give up themselves, their identity to raise children. I think it's setting yourself up for hardship. I think it's admirable, but not practical, and not good for the woman - or the children necessarily as then they have one parent who is unable to contribute effectively if anything happens.

[AnotherRound]

I honestly don't even know what to say to this. I'm stunned that there is still this kind of thinking in this day and age .

 

So, you think that you should get paid to raise your own children? Children that you decided to bring into this world? Who should pay you? Your H? Society?

 

Look, if you want to be a mother, that's great. But, being a mother is not a paying job. Is it important? Yes. Is it hard work? Yes. But it is a choice. You chose that. If your husband was in agreement, and wanted you to be a mother, then maybe he owes you something for that. But imo, you chose a job that pays in emotions and the heart, not money. That was your choice. To expect someone else to pay you for a choice that you made is odd to me. Did you contribute? Sure - but not financially. Maybe you saved him money by raising his kids, and if that's the case, maybe he owes you for that. But at the end of the day, women, and women alone, have the ability to allow or stop pregnancies. WE choose to have children, to stay at home, to devote our lives to them. And that is a volunteer job - not a paying one.

 

I think that my way of thinking is much more modern than the traditional way. That it's a woman's responsibility. I'm not saying it's your responsibility at all, as you made a conscious decision that you were going to be a Mom, and a housekeeper (and hopefully a wife, but that ball sometimes gets dropped, hence this thread). You knew going into it what you were giving up - financial stability, independence, etc. Those are YOUR choices. Nobody forced you, and nobody told you that you would be rewarded for it. The reward is the children themselves - were you not aware of that prior to choosing to become a SAHM? If I work, and earn money, and you work and earn healthy children - Why do you expect me to share what I've earned with you? Because you consider your "job" more noble? More important?

 

You can't make it in this world without money. You CAN make it in this world without children. You chose to be a Mom, great for you. But I don't understand why you think that entitles you to money, or support, or more than 50% of what your husband has worked for, if that.

[LadyGrey]

Maybe later, I'll comment about your post but right now........I'm just flabbergasted at your post. How you view women who are mothers and sahm. Just wow.

 

I think you project onto all women who you see as being like your mm's wife. Your disdain for them shines through.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In your situations, there are obviously not things that are 100% his. In other situations, there are, and the woman feels entitled to it, despite not contributing to it. If a man is out working his arse off, he has earned that, not the woman at home. Sorry, this is just how I feel about it. I'm not saying that being a SAHM isn't important, it obviously is. But you have your reward, healthy and happy children. You don't get paid for that, it's not a "job" in that sense. You shouldn't expect to get paid for it, especially if you willingly decided to bring children into this world. It's a thankless job, everyone knows that - hence the reason some of us have not had children. It's a lot of hard work, and it has tremendous payback, but money isn't one of the paybacks.

 

And, there are situations where a woman will do the bait and switch, then get all huffy about the H wanting out and TRY purposely to take more than her "fair" share of the assets, bc she feels entitled. As if the H owes it to her bc she wanted to be a SAHM, or whatever. That's crazy to me. But then again, I've always had a job and a career, and would not stop wanting that even if I had children, bc it's important to me to earn money. Not for the money per se, but for the independence it allows me, and the contribution it allows me to make to any relationship that I go into. Yes, child rearing and housekeeping are contributions - but they aren't money earning contributions. That's just a fact. A man physically working hard to provide for a family does not owe the wife anything in that regard if she baited and switched. And alimony? Don't even get me started on that... child support is one thing, but expecting an ex to financially support you after the relationship is over? Greedy - and unjust.

[mercy]

I honestly don't even know what to say to this. I'm stunned that there is still this kind of thinking in this day and age .

 

I don't think she's a mother.

[woinlove]

Marriage is a legal contract and each person has their own personal responsibility for any legal contract they sign. If one doesn't like the legal contract, one should not sign it or one should supplement it as allowed. Many jurisdictions allow one to sign legal financial agreements that override parts of the marital contract, including protecting assets for being viewed as marital assets.

 

What really gets me is how many AP and WS feel that adults should not be responsible for their own decisions. When I married I made certain that I was happy with all the legal and other ramifications, otherwise I would not have married. It always astounds me how many posts assume that MM must be brain-dead and incapable of thinking for themselves and making adult decisions. Maybe some are. :laugh: But they can't all be like that, can they?

[AnotherRound]

No, I am not a mother. I have chosen not to be up to this point of my life. I admire mothers, but I don't want to be one right now (or maybe ever). I like having my independence, my earning power, my ability to walk away from something that is miserable for me without having to know that I won't be able to support myself or my children bc I gave up myself long ago to be a Mom.

 

I don't know why anyone is flabbergasted. Because they made a choice to do something that does not earn money, and then expect money for it. That's flabbergasting! We all choose our paths in this life, what we want our ripples to be. If you want your ripples to be being a mother and/or a SAHM, then more power to you. But that has some pretty clear cut results - and one, is that you will NOT get paid for that. That's just reality. If you choose that, great. It's just not my gig, or something I would choose.

 

As far as projecting about exMMs stbxw... um, what? She is not a SAHM, lol. She works, and always has. Point in case, she let the relationship slide in favor of her career and being a mother. She couldn't handle all 3 roles, and she chose which ones to put her energy into. And she is a GREAT mother. And her reward is that she has a happy, healthy, and well adjusted child. That's her result, and that appears to be okay with her. She seems to be good with her choices at this point.

 

I have many friends that are SAHMs, but they aren't expecting to get paid for that work, or that role. It's unrealistic to expect that the world owes you bc you chose to have babies and raise them. Now, if you work - and contribute financially, that's a different story. And many of you are saying that your spouse agreed that it was important for you to stay at home, and that's different too - as it was something that they chose too. But when you choose it solely, and then expect to be paid for it, I can't understand that. If I choose to work pro-bono, I can't later come back, when it doesn't work out, and say, Hey, I want 50% of what you OWE me bc now it's not working out and I can't support myself! That makes NO sense to me at all.

 

You don't get paid to the clean the house you are raising your children in, or raising them, that's just reality. Your choice, you picked it. And, when I got divorced, I wanted nothing more than the 50% I put in - since I worked and made up half the income. I didn't want alimony (although I could have gotten it), as why would I? Why would I expect my exH to pay my way after we weren't together? Why would I still get the benefits of being married when I wasn't married anymore? That's insane to me. Child support, I get, but alimony? Wtf is that about? Either way - man to woman or woman to man, doesn't make sense to me.

[canuckprincess]

From what I know my mm broke his vow not his bs. To the best of my knowledge she could not and would not cheat on her WS. In my marriage my exh broke his vows first but not by cheating.

[AnotherRound]

Oh. My. God. Seriously? Listen, being a parent was not just MY CHOICE, but his as well. We made a decision together and I am doing my part for our family. Nobody can get out the underarm stains in his shirts like I can, so it's a benefit to him. Do you think he would be getting his promotions if he went to work looking like he just rolled out of bed? No. I help him with that by ironing his shirts and making sure he looks like the professional that he is. I do my part in making our living.

 

Being a stay at home mom does not mean I have given up my identity...I still contribute to society. I do charity work, am involved on a volunteer basis for my kid's school, etc.

 

Just because I'm not the one going into work every day doesn't mean I'm not working and contributing. My job helps my husband in his and we made these choices TOGETHER, so yes i am entitled to 50%.

 

I am just flabbergasted.

 

Your situation is NOT what I'm talking about at all. If he agreed, then that's an entirely different subject. I am talking about women who do the bait and switch - you obviously did NOT do that.

 

I'm saying that if a woman gets married with only the intent of having babies and being "taken care of" and the man did NOT agree to that, then that is different. And yes, it does happen - some women get pregnant underhandedly on purpose, without the agreement of their husbands. Some women quit their jobs and stay at home, and their husband is not in agreement. That is what I'm talking about.

 

If you and your spouse AGREE that you raising the children is worth 50%, then by all means, split it up that way. Doesn't matter to me. But I would never agree to stay at home and clean and raise babies, it's just not my thing. And if I did, I would NOT expect to get paid for it - I just wouldn't.

 

This is JUST my opinion and how I choose to live my life. Obviously, others disagree and choose other paths. I don't have an issue with it - until they decide that they want to be "paid" for their choices. And even then, I don't really care, as it doesn't affect me at all. But it's not a choice I would make, and that's all I was saying.

 

This thread is NOT about SAHMs or what they "deserve". It's about who broke the marriage/relationship vows first. If someone is agreeing with you all the way, then they are just as liable for the decisions as you are. This thread is about when one partner is "tricked" into something that they would NEVER agree to. Completely different topic ladies...

[AnotherRound]

Marriage is a legal contract and each person has their own personal responsibility for any legal contract they sign. If one doesn't like the legal contract, one should not sign it or one should supplement it as allowed. Many jurisdictions allow one to sign legal financial agreements that override parts of the marital contract, including protecting assets for being viewed as marital assets.

 

What really gets me is how many AP and WS feel that adults should not be responsible for their own decisions. When I married I made certain that I was happy with all the legal and other ramifications, otherwise I would not have married. It always astounds me how many posts assume that MM must be brain-dead and incapable of thinking for themselves and making adult decisions. Maybe some are. :laugh: But they can't all be like that, can they?

 

Sigh. The whole topic in this thread is about people that present themselves in one way to get married - the bait and switch. So obviously, one person is signing a contract under false pretenses.

 

Where have I EVER said that people aren't responsible for their choices? Not here. This is about the tricked person's rights when they find out they've been tricked... so, they can't go back in time and choose not to sign the contract.

 

You guys are being so touchy today about this thread... maybe re-read the OP and stay on topic, as you are taking it somewhere else completely. And obviously somewhere that you are VERY uncomfortable. You can start a new thread about Moms and SAHMs if you want to talk about that, but it is NOT the topic here UNLESS the Mom or SAHM did the bait and switch and was unable to maintain the relationship part of their marriage contract - or never intended to in the first place.

[woinlove]

Sigh. The whole topic in this thread is about people that present themselves in one way to get married - the bait and switch. So obviously, one person is signing a contract under false pretenses.

 

Where have I EVER said that people aren't responsible for their choices? Not here. This is about the tricked person's rights when they find out they've been tricked... so, they can't go back in time and choose not to sign the contract.

 

You guys are being so touchy today about this thread... maybe re-read the OP and stay on topic, as you are taking it somewhere else completely. And obviously somewhere that you are VERY uncomfortable. You can start a new thread about Moms and SAHMs if you want to talk about that, but it is NOT the topic here UNLESS the Mom or SAHM did the bait and switch and was unable to maintain the relationship part of their marriage contract - or never intended to in the first place.

 

It is relevant. Legal marriage typically has clear guidelines as to what are marital assets and earnings. It doesn't come with clear guidelines as to what weight each person needs to maintain, etc. So if someone is getting married, one should consider that and make sure they are not signing a legal document they don't agree with. As to bait and switch, as I said, one thing is the examples you give are OUT IN THE OPEN and it is interesting how many choose to stay married for a decade, two decades, some 3 decades or more, AFTER they claim to have seen the bait and switch. Really, how many marital assets could have been acquired when the bait and switch was claimed to happen shortly after M and there they are still married some 30 or so years late?

[Athena]

There was no bait and switch in my marriage... I had a high sex drive before and during my marriage. My husband was very content in this area. H was the first to break his vows by cheating with 8 OW over the years while he was away working. Yes he did make the money, but did not take out the trash, nor help with the kids.

 

He was cheating in his first marriage too, though he claims his first wife was a little frigid, they still had regular sex, she just didn't like oral.

 

He broke his vows, so many times, and it had absolutely nothing to do with a lack of sex in our M! Narcissists are looking for attention from others, not only sex. One person giving them attention is never enough.

[LadyGrey]

Of course I could be wrong, and I'm not going back to find it, but I think you are the one who started the bash fest on sahm's about what they deserve and what they don't.

 

 

 

Sigh. The whole topic in this thread is about people that present themselves in one way to get married - the bait and switch. So obviously, one person is signing a contract under false pretenses.

 

Where have I EVER said that people aren't responsible for their choices? Not here. This is about the tricked person's rights when they find out they've been tricked... so, they can't go back in time and choose not to sign the contract.

 

You guys are being so touchy today about this thread... maybe re-read the OP and stay on topic, as you are taking it somewhere else completely. And obviously somewhere that you are VERY uncomfortable. You can start a new thread about Moms and SAHMs if you want to talk about that, but it is NOT the topic here UNLESS the Mom or SAHM did the bait and switch and was unable to maintain the relationship part of their marriage contract - or never intended to in the first place.

[woinlove]

Of course I could be wrong, and I'm not going back to find it, but I think you are the one who started the bash fest on sahm's about what they deserve and what they don't.

 

My impression, too. And, AR, who is being touchy? We don't agree with your logic and are giving arguments as to why. Calling us touchy is not an argument, and I wonder if that is the reason behind it? No counter-argument?

[AnotherRound]

It is relevant. Legal marriage typically has clear guidelines as to what are marital assets and earnings. It doesn't come with clear guidelines as to what weight each person needs to maintain, etc. So if someone is getting married, one should consider that and make sure they are not signing a legal document they don't agree with. As to bait and switch, as I said, one thing is the examples you give are OUT IN THE OPEN and it is interesting how many choose to stay married for a decade, two decades, some 3 decades or more, AFTER they claim to have seen the bait and switch. Really, how many marital assets could have been acquired when the bait and switch was claimed to happen shortly after M and there they are still married some 30 or so years late?

 

If someone is entering into a marriage with someone who is not being honest about what they plan to, or are able to, what are they supposed to consider? You cannot consider information that you have not acquired yet... ????? And, like I said before - often times the other spouse is NOT aware that there has been a bait and switch until AFTER there are children involved. That muddies things up in a big way - and makes it a hell of a lot harder to just walk away. And, then the spouse that has been tricked stays for the kids - in the meantime, assets are being obtained, jointly - in whatever set up the couple has. By the time the person tricked is exhausted and resentful enough to walk away, there is a LOT wrapped up in the situation.

 

That's the point. Now, the tricked partner has to walk away from their life too - all that that entails. Seeing the children daily, the business they may have built together, the house that they bought or built together - everything. Because the other person was not honest with them. Then, it seems that often, the spouse that walks away gets the blame - when it reality it wasn't a true contract anyway bc the other spouse was dishonest. Or, the tricked spouse tells the other spouse they are going to have an affair, and the other spouse is horrified. THAT is what I'm talking about...

[woinlove]

If someone is entering into a marriage with someone who is not being honest about what they plan to, or are able to, what are they supposed to consider? You cannot consider information that you have not acquired yet... ????? And, like I said before - often times the other spouse is NOT aware that there has been a bait and switch until AFTER there are children involved. That muddies things up in a big way - and makes it a hell of a lot harder to just walk away. And, then the spouse that has been tricked stays for the kids - in the meantime, assets are being obtained, jointly - in whatever set up the couple has. By the time the person tricked is exhausted and resentful enough to walk away, there is a LOT wrapped up in the situation.

 

That's the point. Now, the tricked partner has to walk away from their life too - all that that entails. Seeing the children daily, the business they may have built together, the house that they bought or built together - everything. Because the other person was not honest with them. Then, it seems that often, the spouse that walks away gets the blame - when it reality it wasn't a true contract anyway bc the other spouse was dishonest. Or, the tricked spouse tells the other spouse they are going to have an affair, and the other spouse is horrified. THAT is what I'm talking about...

 

As I said earlier, being tricked by a bait and switch is horrible. As I also said, that is out in the open and one needs to decide how to deal with that. Personally, I would not stay in an M for many years and decide to cheat as a way of dealing. Usually dealing with problems earlier is the best strategy and that is what I would try to do. Again, each person has responsibility, the bait and switcher definitely has responsibility and the other spouse also has responsibility in how they respond. That seems clear to me. Is any of this under dispute?

[AnotherRound]

My impression, too. And, AR, who is being touchy? We don't agree with your logic and are giving arguments as to why. Calling us touchy is not an argument, and I wonder if that is the reason behind it? No counter-argument?

 

Nah. I just get frustrated when my thread is taken off topic and people start to take it somewhere completely different and attempt to use it against ALL OWs.

 

I wasn't calling you touchy as an argument, lol. I was calling you touchy bc you disagreed with my opinion and then got all "flabbergasted" with my opinion and my explanation of my opinion.

 

I don't have to have a "counter argument" - and certainly not about an entirely different issue than what the thread is about.

 

Like I said, you are free to start another thread about SAHMs and your beliefs about what they "deserve", but this thread is not about that UNLESS the SAHM did a bait and switch or was dishonest entering the marriage so that she could be a SAHM and had no ability or desire to truly be a partner in the intimate relationship part of the marriage. And uses that status to force someone to stay in a marriage - in that, the other partner will now lose daily access to their children, and lose assets to the tricky spouse.

[AnotherRound]

As I said earlier, being tricked by a bait and switch is horrible. As I also said, that is out in the open and one needs to decide how to deal with that. Personally, I would not stay in an M for many years and decide to cheat as a way of dealing. Usually dealing with problems earlier is the best strategy and that is what I would try to do. Again, each person has responsibility, the bait and switcher definitely has responsibility and the other spouse also has responsibility in how they respond. That seems clear to me. Is any of this under dispute?

 

 

Lol, not for me. But the thread was about that, and how people thought of that situation. Some believe that there is no such thing as the bait and switch. Just, it went off topic bc I said something about SAHMs within a bait and switch situation, and it snowballed from there.

 

No biggie... I agree with this post.

[AnotherRound]

I think it's quite relevant to the topic because many people, women included, choose to say their marriage was a bait and switch so that they can not be the bad guy. My own husband essentially said that to his OW so he could justify his behavior, and according to you, I would have been entitled to nothing just based on his word just because I am a stay at home mom and not worthy of everything he worked for, even though my work helps his career.

 

And yes women get pregnant on purpose sometimes...I've also heard stories where men are the ones getting the woman pregnant on purpose. I once read a story of a man who sabotaged their birth control.

 

Agreed. But I'm talking about a situation when there truly WAS a bait and switch. And no, I have no idea how you would prove that. For argument's sake, let's just assume some hypothetical situation where there truly was a bait and switch by one of the partner's, male or female. That was the topic.

 

I never said that YOU weren't worthy. I said that the entitlement of someone who enters a marriage under false pretenses and THEN expects the other partner to give up half of everything, is ludicrous bc they themselves broke the vows from the get go by not holding up their end of the agreement.

 

You probably do deserve 50%, I have no idea, as I don't know your situation well enough - and, it's not my job to judge what you deserve. I don't want to make those judgment calls, so, I'm not a judge. I take you at your word that you have contributed and that your husband was in agreement. That is entirely different.

[woinlove]

I think the vast majority of M are much more complicated, and more of a duet involving the behavior of both, than a bait and switch by one spouse. However, there are mail-order brides from some countries and other specific scenarios that I suspect could lead to bait and switch. More common is I think two young people marrying, becoming parents, not having the communication skills to deal with their complex, changing roles and each failing to mutually support each other as needed, and then they each respond to that in different ways, perhaps the mother focussing more on the children and the father focussing more outside the marriage. Just one scenario that I think is more common that bait and switch.

[Silly_Girl]

You brought up something very interesting woinlove. Maybe the focus should be on the person who chooses to stay in that kind of situation. Maybe one should question if there something dysfunctional about them staying in such an unsatisfying place. Are they too afraid to leave, or they too afraid to demand a change or threaten a consequence and stick to it?

 

Ummm, so maybe the person who stays 10, 20 years or more that has had the old bait and switch pulled on them is really the problem.

 

Yes, yes, yes.

 

Ex-mm had no sex at all. She said it was for religious reasons, but he SHOULD have picked up on the lack of interest in any case. No sex after marriage. He tried to get her to talk, she went to a therapist once. She would clam up if he tried to talk about it and even would walk off/out of the house to avoid the subject. Your heart does bleed for him. He didn't feel justification enough to end the marriage, he liked and respected her, loved her. He had heard that many men 'get no sex', and felt it would be cruel to dismiss her for just that. But there comes a time that you know you are responsible for your own happiness. And you have to take that burden seriously.

 

She had an affair and was sexually active and he was devastated. He wasn't good enough for her. Even after she came back they didn't make love (or reconcile). 13 years total, 10 of marriage, no sex. He would never have had an affair if his wife hadn't first. I just can't relate to their roles in the whole thing.

[AnotherRound]

Yes, yes, yes.

 

Ex-mm had no sex at all. She said it was for religious reasons, but he SHOULD have picked up on the lack of interest in any case. No sex after marriage. He tried to get her to talk, she went to a therapist once. She would clam up if he tried to talk about it and even would walk off/out of the house to avoid the subject. Your heart does bleed for him. He didn't feel justification enough to end the marriage, he liked and respected her, loved her. He had heard that many men 'get no sex', and felt it would be cruel to dismiss her for just that. But there comes a time that you know you are responsible for your own happiness. And you have to take that burden seriously.

 

She had an affair and was sexually active and he was devastated. He wasn't good enough for her. Even after she came back they didn't make love (or reconcile). 13 years total, 10 of marriage, no sex. He would never have had an affair if his wife hadn't first. I just can't relate to their roles in the whole thing.

 

Yes, I can see this point. I guess for me, I just see how unfair it is to expect the spouse that is being cheated out of a true relationship to "just walk away". As they have invested in the marriage too - financially (sometimes), with children, with the home, possibly shared businesses, etc. Especially if they were lied to, or tricked, or manipulated by the other partner about what the expectations of the marriage were.

 

Again, I would have never have stayed. But, I can understand why they stay - and I can see how unfair the whole thing is when someone is tricked (in some way or another) and then is expected to cut everything in half with the person who tricked them. And sometimes, they just don't see the incompatibility until there is already so much wrapped up in it. And that sounds pretty hard to disentangle from, frustration or not! And if it was me, I certainly wouldn't be happy about giving someone 50% of everything (and giving up 50% of my time with my children) bc they were dishonest and never intended or wanted an intimate relationship with me, but did want the benefits or social status of marriage.

[canuckprincess]

Oh. My. God. Seriously? Listen, being a parent was not just MY CHOICE, but his as well. We made a decision together and I am doing my part for our family. Nobody can get out the underarm stains in his shirts like I can, so it's a benefit to him. Do you think he would be getting his promotions if he went to work looking like he just rolled out of bed? No. I help him with that by ironing his shirts and making sure he looks like the professional that he is. I do my part in making our living.

 

Being a stay at home mom does not mean I have given up my identity...I still contribute to society. I do charity work, am involved on a volunteer basis for my kid's school, etc.

 

Just because I'm not the one going into work every day doesn't mean I'm not working and contributing. My job helps my husband in his and we made these choices TOGETHER, so yes i am entitled to 50%.

 

I am just flabbergasted.

 

 

My exh said to me one time in front of his gf, "if it wasn't for me you wouldn't have this house" to which I replied, "thats right if it wasn't for you I'd have a bigger better house" dumass! His gf laughed at him. Do you think your the only woman that can iron and get put stains out? Not only do I keep a very clean organized home but I can also satisfy my mm man in so many other ways.

 

If bs were so incredible and could take care of all their "wifely duties" then most of us wouldn't be here. I'm not suggesting that you aren't a great wife I'm just saying we can all be replaced. It happens in the workplace and it happens in the homes.