Calling all women!

[Mitch]

Now, I should have waited at least 3 days perhaps but..

 

 

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"come and gone" has posted something which I think gets right to the heart of a complete and total difference of opinion between Tony and me.

 

Do women EVER call guys? Or rather should they?

 

We will never settle it by ourselves.

 

Please read her post and comment.

[Tony T]

I have never, anywhere in the world, even implied that women do not call guys or that they shouldn't. I have no problem with any women calling guys, asking them out, propositioning them or whatever.

 

If we have disagreements, it has to do with individual and unique circumstances on a case by case basis. In other words, I do believe anything can happen at the proper time and in the proper circumstances. I just want you to be very clear on that.

 

Above all, this forum is not for you and me to debate issues. We simply post our views so that the person seeking advice has a variety of opinions to choose from.

 

Mitch, I don't know where you're from but our biggest problem is understanding what each other has written...at least on my part. I don't really understand many of your posts too well, but it's only those who seek advice that must understand so I don't really need to.

 

Meanwhile, I do not feel it necessary to agree or disagree with you on anything in this forum and find it positive and wholesome that ours and so many other differing viewpoints are free to be posted here.

 

I hope you will understand that I absolutely encourage you to think in ways other than me. Otherwise, there would be no diversity of opinion that is most often sought out here.

[Mitch]

I have never, anywhere in the world, even implied that women do not call guys or that they shouldn't. I have no problem with any women calling guys, asking them out, propositioning them or whatever.

Well somebody has been using your alias then.

 

Because in response to "come and gone", who had been called by this guy most nights for about a month and a half and then had a Halloween party, and then was worried because she hadn't heard from him for .. 2 days .. you (or this other person named Tony) posted the following:

There are dozens of reasons he may not have called, from illness to having his phone shut off to just being busy. He may have met someone he liked at your party...hmmmm. I hope you made him feel comfortable at your party by introducing him to all your friends and making sure he stayed occupied socially. If you did this, good.

Okay. Agreed.

 

But then...

You'll hear from him, I'm sure. He's probably just giving you a little hard time right now, a challenge...and it seems to be working very well.

"You'll hear from him."

 

To me that line says it all.

 

IT IS HIS JOB TO MAKE CONTACT WITH YOU. That's what that says to me. Even though you are interested.

 

Am I wrong?

 

If I'm not, why?? That's the crux of the issue. Why in the world is it his job to call her in this case yet again?

 

They've known each other for awhile, and he's been doing all the calling/chasing for a long time now. And she's interested in continuing but has possibly shown no signs of real interest.

 

Why shouldn't she show that maybe she gives a damn?

 

What could be a potential friendship or relationship can now (with this frame of mind) fester into a pointless waiting game because, and let me reiterate, not once did you recommend, pick up the phone.

 

The single most obvious thing to do. Instead you conclude he's giving her a "little hard time now" ???

 

Come on Tony. You normally (and I think correctly) tell people to get on the psychic friend line for answers to stuff like this ("why doesn't he call??"), but here you're acting like the psychic friend.

 

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Look, I actually like what you say most of the time. I've agreed outright with you on many occasions and posted that to the board. If I thought you were full of it I'd completely and totally ignore you.

 

I disagree with you here and am interested in what others have to say.

 

If you simply don't have thick enough skin to admit occasionally that you were wrong (because I know I do) or subject what you say to an occasional minor test, we will never, ever get along.

 

Which .. is fine.

 

Heck, I think diverse opinions liven things up.

 

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Again, people not named Tony because otherwise this is a debate of 2 and he doesn't want that, thoughts?

[Joe]

Mitch.....my opinions are not as valued as Tony's are but I agree with you and disagree. Tony did say for him to wait to call, I'll give ya that. But he is not saying that ALL men should call women. He was just giving his opinion to this particular post and I agree with him. I have seen women pick up on guys right in front of my face. What "I think" Tony was trying to say is that these two had been communicating with each other for over a month. He calls her showing interest. And her talking with him shows interest on her part, okay interest from both sides has been established. But what would be the gentlemen thing to do would be for him to ask her out on a date. In this situation I don't think she should call. If he is still interested he will call. How would it look if she calls him and he has found some other gal, that would be embarrassing. Once again I don't believe it is always the man's responsibility to approach women, women can approach men also to show interest. But once there is interest & communication established from both sides, I believe the man should take it to the next level and ask the woman out.

 

Just my opinion,

 

Joe

[J]

I don't understand why you are hanging on to this Mitch. Tony has given his opinion, and never in the whole time that I have visited this site, has he claimed that he is 100% correct all the time. I guess like most of us, he gives advice based on his own personal experiences, his morals, ethics and belief systems, and a twist of his own individual personality thrown in.

 

Come and gone is just questioning why this guy has suddenly changed his tack. He has gone from regular contact to no contact, which indicates that either something is wrong or he is backing off for some reason. From a woman's point of view, I think she should wait. If he doesn't call, he is rude, because even if he NEVER wants to see her again, he should have the basic manners to say so. Why chase him and give him the option of copping out.

 

I have no problem calling guys, however only to a point. I like a man to be a man. Sometimes it's nice to be chased a bit.

 

Why don't you just let go of this little debate, and just agree to disagree. Tony's initial advice was quite sound - just his opinion. Isn't that why we are all here. There is always going to be diversity in the world, and if we all agreed on EVERY matter of the heart, then this site probably wouldn't exist, because we'd all co-exist harmoniously.

[Deejette]

I would like for there to be more equality in the dating and relationship scene, whereby women can call men and men can call women whenever they want to without freaking each other out that the relationship is becoming too intense too soon.

 

Where the problems come in is when women call men too often, too soon (and vice versa). Once the relationship has become established, then the ease of friendship sets in and who calls whom is not such a big issue.

 

In an established relationship you call each other because you need and want to talk to each other, and even if you call at a bad moment, you are still easy enough in the relationship to be able to take your mate's time because it is important to you.

 

But if you call too often, too soon in the early stages of dating, it can be intrusive and smack of desperation and smothering.

Mitch.....my opinions are not as valued as Tony's are but I agree with you and disagree. Tony did say for him to wait to call, I'll give ya that. But he is not saying that ALL men should call women. He was just giving his opinion to this particular post and I agree with him. I have seen women pick up on guys right in front of my face. What "I think" Tony was trying to say is that these two had been communicating with each other for over a month. He calls her showing interest. And her talking with him shows interest on her part, okay interest from both sides has been established. But what would be the gentlemen thing to do would be for him to ask her out on a date. In this situation I don't think she should call. If he is still interested he will call. How would it look if she calls him and he has found some other gal, that would be embarrassing. Once again I don't believe it is always the man's responsibility to approach women, women can approach men also to show interest. But once there is interest & communication established from both sides, I believe the man should take it to the next level and ask the woman out. Just my opinion, Joe

[Louise]

Ok here's my opinion on the whole "should she call" debate. It may be unpopular...

 

First of all, if he is not calling then he is not interested. No excuses. His phone is off? And...he is incapable of getting his butt over to another phone? Please. If he really wanted to call he would find a way. He's busy? Even the busiest people will find the time to make a call if it is something (someone) important to them.

 

A woman who calls will be taken for granted by the guy she is calling. This may seem old-fashioned but it's true. If she is too easy and not at all a challenge, he will lose interest. And if she calls too often he'll feel smothered and bail.

 

Men and women are different. What is appropriate and expected of a man to do (make the first move, do the calling) just doesn't work when the woman does it. It is not a matter of right and wrong, it is a matter of what works - what is effective. If she comes on too strong he will lose interest and/or run away.

 

That's my opinion!

 

L

[Mitch]

I would like for there to be more equality in the dating and relationship scene, whereby women can call men and men can call women whenever they want to without freaking each other out that the relationship is becoming too intense too soon.

 

Where the problems come in is when women call men too often, too soon (and vice versa). Once the relationship has become established, then the ease of friendship sets in and who calls whom is not such a big issue. In an established relationship you call each other because you need and want to talk to each other, and even if you call at a bad moment, you are still easy enough in the relationship to be able to take your mate's time because it is important to you. But if you call too often, too soon in the early stages of dating, it can be intrusive and smack of desperation and smothering.

My argument exactly.

 

And if women want to wait for the guy to call in a young existing relationship, I say they lose all "bitching" rights ("Why DOESN'T he call? What's wrong with him??")

 

Don't want to hear it.

[Mitch]

off for some reason. From a woman's point of view, I think she should wait. If he doesn't call, he is rude, because even if he NEVER wants to see her again, he should have the basic manners to say so. Why chase him and give him the option of copping out. I have no problem calling guys, however only to a point. I like a man to be a man. Sometimes it's nice to be chased a bit.

Okay, cool.

 

Just wanted to confirm that we called all the shots on the dating scene as we decide when contact gets initiated and in some instances whether it continues.

 

It's fine by me and in a way, REALLY good news!