Direct correlation between narcassism, verbal/emtional abuse & Infidelity

[amaysngrace]

Hey. I've got a question... Any ideas on how to get my husband into therapy??

 

I've tried:

 

Because you cheated

Because of "family of origin"

Because of unresolved issues from prior relationships

Because I NEED it & your help w/it

For the kids

 

How about "get help for your issues or we're finished"?

[ComingInHot]

Amazingrace:

 

I KNOW, right!!?!

 

I think that I haven't given that ultimatum yet because I don't believe in threats unless I am willing to follow through. I'm a bit worried that I take that position only to Not follow through. Then I reenforce to him that I AM weak, I teach my kids that I am weak, to ultimately show myself that I am weak.

 

Great. I'm weak...

[amaysngrace]

Amazingrace:

 

I KNOW, right!!?!

 

I think that I haven't given that ultimatum yet because I don't believe in threats unless I am willing to follow through. I'm a bit worried that I take that position only to Not follow through. Then I reenforce to him that I AM weak, I teach my kids that I am weak, to ultimately show myself that I am weak.

 

Great. I'm weak...

 

I don't think you're weak...I think you've just adapted to your surroundings. I'm sure there's a fighter in you somewhere who knows that this environment is unhealthy for you and your children.

[BetheButterfly]

Because my question may overlap different topics, I wasn't sure where to post this...

 

Some of you who read this will recognize me from the infidelity forum ( I kind of hope nobody who has gotten to know me over there reads this & thinks poorly of me) but here goes.

My husband has always been a "hot-head" At least this came to light after our marriage and after our son was about 6 months old. He was the PERFECT boyfriend & fiance. But I'm not perfect I always just seemed to "make" him sooo mad. I would NEVER do anything intentionally to upset him but I'm not perfect and once in a while I wouldn't get everything done that I was supposed to.

When he'd get angry, he would always manage to make everything my fault. I alas felt so bad for getting him angry.

This went on and increased as we had another child and grew our family and started our company. The intensity increased as well. It is almost surreal the way he tantrums and screams and demeans me.

Then he cheated. I looked into counseling but he refused to go saying he knows what his problem is as simply won't do it again. I attempted to talk to him about IC to address his anger management issues to which he replied, "well, if you didn't make me so mad I wouldn't have to be this way".

At least his A opened my eyes to know that for the pat 14 yrs I have been used as a "punching bag" for his emotional release and I try w/more success to not accept his bologna.

I looked up anger management and came upon narcassism. Everyone characteristic was dead on w/my husband.

We are trying to reconcile and he has been open/transparent in everything but still won't do counseling ( see reason above). Our kids are getting older & this morning for example, husband asked about adding ANOTHER weekend of a particular sport he loves to the calendar. All I did was ask him to open up the month of October so I could get a better picture of what everything looked like to make sure the kids received quality time w/him too and he immediately became tense. I don't feel this was wrong of me and I explained how much I supported him and always want him to enjoy playing his sport as well I want the kids to have family time w/him as well.

The next thing I know, he his pacing, growling, swearing, telling me that I really don't have THAT much to do and I suck at prioritizing etc ( which of course is NOT true, I've even succomed to writing down everything I do so I have a defense when he asks), to then SCREAMING at our 9 year old daughter ( who adores him) over not putting socks on before coming down to breakfast. I just tried to get us all out of there before he could do any more harm verbally and deal w/his craziness w/out the kids overhearing.

In the car, my daughter asked me why I didn't defend her? I explained that my number one priority was to extricate her from the bad environment and that I would most definetely address w/Daddy, his behavior. She knows I will. In the meantime, my son says, "Mom, if sis & I agree would you consider leaving Dad? I am sick of how he yes at us?"!!! He's 12... I told him I consider often whether or not it would be better to have us come from a broken home rather than live in one. We prayed together before school, for Daddy and helping him then I got in the car and cried.

Husband called me a bit later and asked in a smirky voice, "so, you think the kids will remember their socks tomorrow?" All I could think of was, NO BUT THEY'LL REMEMBER YOU BEING HORRID... I went off on him explaining that however good his intentions were to teach them responsibility, his behavior was abhorent and damaging. It's lie he doesn't hear me except when he ha those moments of clarity but then he rationalizes how he would NEVER act this way if WE or whomever to blame didn't make him...

 

Sorry so long... QUESTION: Is his narcassism part of why he is SO abusive and is his abuse how he mainais his narcissism and w/both is that why he could justify his cheating?

 

I am so humiliated to even be here asking. If any of you takes the time to even read this mess, Thank You*

 

Coming in Hot,

 

My personal advice is to not reconcile with him. I am sorry to give that advice but I don't believe it's necessary for a family to endure emotional abuse or any other type of an abuse. His screaming at your daughter for not wearing socks and his cursing at you is most definitely verbal and emotional abuse.

 

What I personally think you need to do is to separate or divorce. Have a beautiful refuge for you and your family where they don't have to endure his fits of anger.

 

They need that. You need that. He needs to learn how to control himself and not be so easily driven to tantrums.

[BetheButterfly]

And just following the "handbook", today things are just peachy and all is right w/the world. In his eyes. Back to Mr."Loving&attentive".

 

This is the roller coaster that I DON'T like to ride. I am still reeling but expected to be over it just like him.

 

Hugs & kisses and sensitivity & understanding from him during the " up word swing of the abuse cycle" (yes, I know the pattern/cycle of abuse) is what encourages me to stay, work & support keeping our family whole. I hope that this cycle will last longer and then there will be an even longer "lull" before the next. Does that make sense?

 

Hey. I've got a question... Any ideas on how to get my husband into therapy??

 

I've tried:

 

Because you cheated

Because of "family of origin"

Because of unresolved issues from prior relationships

Because I NEED it & your help w/it

For the kids

 

Again, he is emotionally and verbally abusing you. My youngest sister works at a women's shelter and sees this all the time. First the abuser abuses then he apologies and acts all lovey-dovy then repeat cycle.

 

GET OUT. DON'T FALL FOR IT AGAIN.

 

I think he will only go to counseling if he decides to... I don't think you can force him to go.

 

Please, for your childrens' sake... they are even asking you... leave him.

 

Hopefully he will work on himself and change, but please don't stay in an abusive relationship. That's not good for anybody, including your kids.

[ComingInHot]

BeTheButterfly:

 

Thank you for your reply*

 

You are right about the "cycle". That is one of the thins I get down on myself about!!

 

Sometimes I wonder if it would be better for him to hit me. Then I KNOW I could go and have the wound to SHOW as evidence, you know?.?.

 

He is (I think) too smart for that. He always tells my son, " you can NEVER hit a girl". Of course he's right about this, but it's the unseen wounds that (to me) matter just as much but can't prove...

[amaysngrace]

I think emotional wounds are much more damaging than the physical ones.

 

CIH what are you doing? Your children only have two parents. Two role models. He's a bad example and unfortunately so are you. You are allowing everything that's being done by him to happen.

 

Someone has to be a parent to your children. Someone has to say this is absolutely unacceptable behavior.

 

What are you teaching them? That its okay to be treated like crap?

 

I feel bad for them.

[Stillgrowing]

there seems to be a lot of experience here with this...Im going to hijack your thread for a minute to ask...what happens to the kids in a divorce when there isn't a "buffer" during visitation? i am a huge buffer to my kids with my dh's behavior. He can be an awesome dad but he can also be scary critical when things aren't perfect. I've emphasized to my girls, without bashing their dad, that his behavior isn't what is considered normal. I take all the blame when something goes wrong that would set him off.

 

sg

[amaysngrace]

there seems to be a lot of experience here with this...Im going to hijack your thread for a minute to ask...what happens to the kids in a divorce when there isn't a "buffer" during visitation? i am a huge buffer to my kids with my dh's behavior. He can be an awesome dad but he can also be scary critical when things aren't perfect. I've emphasized to my girls, without bashing their dad, that his behavior isn't what is considered normal. I take all the blame when something goes wrong that would set him off.

 

sg

 

My kids use each other as a buffer. Their dad doesn't go off too much around them but the last time he did he was having a family cookout. Apparently he went after his dog with a knife, scared all his little nieces and nephews, everyone left and my kids had no idea it happened. They were upstairs in the house on their electronics.

 

They found out about it the next day when my ex's mom came early to yell at him.

 

My kids don't go often to see him. I'm raising them. But I do believe it is so much better for them to see him periodically rather than every day.

[Spark1111]

Most people in an affair exhibit signs of narcissism.

 

Narcissists need an ENDLESS supply of attention because they feel so unworthy. They develop an arrogance and anger that knows no bounds.They seem like ego-driven maniacs. It is ALL about them, ALL the time.

 

But then, so do bi-polars, especially while in the manic phase, exhibit anger, frustration, become verbally abusive and demonstrate poor impulse control.

 

Untreated ADHD in children can become bi-polar in adulthood.

 

I think your H needs a professional diagnosis, and to get that he would have to agree to therapy AND be honest for a long time.

 

But trust me on this: You didn't cause it, you cannot control it, and you will not be able to fix it.

 

Only he can do that for himself.

 

Your decision is if you can live with it, accept it, or leave it for good.

 

And that starts with BOUNDARIES. Never accept unacceptable behavior, especially with someone who may be personality-disordered or mentally unstable.

 

They are attracted to the kind and compassionate and resourceful....but they will suck the life blood out of you and your kids, IF you let them.

 

I know you are reeling from infidelity and all that betrayal emcompasses, and keeping the family secure is of highest priority especially when the children are young.

 

But remember, it is NOT what you say, it is HOW mommy and daddy act that gives them the blueprint for all their future relationships.

 

Did his dad verbally abuse his mom? Was anger the go to emotion in his home? Was it a very controlled and orderly environment at all times? How did he do in school? Did he/does he partake too often of substances? Does he blame others for his own created pressures?

 

It seems to me that NOW, as he wants to reconcile, is the time to set some hard rules: Ones that involve kindness, respect and compassionate communication.

 

At least insist on MC.

[BetheButterfly]

BeTheButterfly:

 

Thank you for your reply*

 

You are right about the "cycle". That is one of the thins I get down on myself about!!

 

Sometimes I wonder if it would be better for him to hit me. Then I KNOW I could go and have the wound to SHOW as evidence, you know?.?.

 

He is (I think) too smart for that. He always tells my son, " you can NEVER hit a girl". Of course he's right about this, but it's the unseen wounds that (to me) matter just as much but can't prove...

 

I am sorry you wonder if it would be better if he would hit you. CominginHot, you have to leave. This sentence that you just wrote shows the mark of damage on your soul. A healthy woman in a healthy marriage does not wonder if it would be better for her protector, her lover, her knight in shining armor, to hit her.

 

Yes you have unseen wounds. Thankfully, nowadays many people including professionals recognize those. If you go to a woman's shelter, I think they would help you because they don't only limit help to physical abuse. Verbal and emotional abuse is just as painful and actually changes how you see life.

 

When you were first in love with him, did you ever consider, hay it would be better if he would hit me so that I could have evidence? I don't think so.

Do you see how your mind has been so affected with his words and meanness to you?

 

YOU DON'T DESERVE TO BE TREATED LIKE THAT. YOU DON'T DESERVE TO WONDER IF WOULD BE BETTER IF YOUR HUSBAND PHYSICALLY ABUSED YOU.

I wish I could give you a hug right now. Do you have family who can help you? Please, don't fall into the cycle again. He needs to prove he has changed before you can afford to trust him again. Please, you are a wonderful lady and are worth a wonderful man who will protect your heart and body, not a man who tramples on your heart.

[BetheButterfly]

My kids use each other as a buffer. Their dad doesn't go off too much around them but the last time he did he was having a family cookout. Apparently he went after his dog with a knife, scared all his little nieces and nephews, everyone left and my kids had no idea it happened. They were upstairs in the house on their electronics.

 

They found out about it the next day when my ex's mom came early to yell at him.

 

My kids don't go often to see him. I'm raising them. But I do believe it is so much better for them to see him periodically rather than every day.

 

I am so glad that you are no longer with him. It is so sad that he has such huge anger problems. I personally believe he should not have a dog. That is so scary and I feel so sorry for the dog, as well as for the poor little kids who saw such an evil rage of temper.

 

Yes, it's so much better for your kids for you to raise them!!! A man who would chase a dog around with a knife has serious issues. The dog needs a new home too, one with love and not with rage. I personally would call animal protection services if I ever heard of anybody doing that to their dog.

[amaysngrace]

I am so glad that you are no longer with him. It is so sad that he has such huge anger problems. I personally believe he should not have a dog. That is so scary and I feel so sorry for the dog, as well as for the poor little kids who saw such an evil rage of temper.

 

Yes, it's so much better for your kids for you to raise them!!! A man who would chase a dog around with a knife has serious issues. The dog needs a new home too, one with love and not with rage. I personally would call animal protection services if I ever heard of anybody doing that to their dog.

 

Thank you. When this happened they had two dogs, a boy and a girl, and my daughter made a nice comparison. Their male dog is vicious and aggressive and the female is afraid of everything.

 

Meanwhile we have a golden retreiver here at home. He's a bit undisciplined and playful but I let him be a dog.

 

My daughter says that if I stayed married that she would end up like her dads female dog, afraid, and my son would end up like her dads male dog, aggressive.

 

Instead they are mostly like our dog...free to be themselves.

 

Edited September 27, 2012 by amaysngrace

[2sunny]

Your kids KNOW it's not right to stay!

 

You can't MAKE your H get help. There is NO cure for NPD - you can't make someone grows conscience.

 

There method of operating is what you describe mean then nice - mean then nice. You will wonder every minute of every day what MIGHT set him off. That's NO WAY to live.

 

I lived with it for 23 years! I divorced him ---> this is pure freedom!

 

I have predictable days. That is MY peace of mind! I rarely communicate with him...mainly because I never know what his motives are or what mood he may be in... But when I do - I give ONE WORD answers only! Yes, no or maybe.

 

You staying allows him and your kids to understand that you are ok with this.

 

Leave NOW - TODAY!

 

Show your kids that NO ONE should have to put up with that unacceptable behavior!

 

We train people how to treat us. You have shown him that you will tolerate his abuse and stay.

 

Send him a CLEAR message!!!! MOVE TODAY and file for D!

 

THAT will allow him to understand that you aren't taking his crap anymore!

 

Get counseling! Get it for your kids too! Find out why you think his behavior was ok... And find out how ton ever ever settle for that behavior from anyone again.

 

You need to work on expressing effective communication with SOLID BOUNDARIES!

 

Good luck and big hugs!

[ComingInHot]

You ALL ARE SO AMAZING! (tears flowing)...

 

I have to say that when I came to LS, it was to ask somewhat clinical unemotional questions so I might be able to figure things out on my own in a rational, informed way.

 

But, I ended up having some of you (over on infidelity side) see right through all that and get me right to the point. Which of course lead me to this forum...

 

I don't , I don't know how to say thank you ( great, mascara running now...)** to all of you.

 

I am in counseling. I have ( after reading the above posts) scheduled the children too.

 

Gotta tell you, my/our councelor's going to either hug me for finally "coming clean" with ALL of my dirty laundry, or she'll crap her pants from shock. Either way, I won't try to justify his behavior anymore, or "sugar coat" things. I just want SO BADLY to believe that everything will work out if I just continue to look for and see the good.

 

Kicker is, I just realized (thanks to you all), that I CAN still believe in and look for the good in him. It just may have to be from a different place/space.

 

We moved down two years ago. Miles & miles & miles etc from my family & friends. He said it would be a fresh start. Yes it has in some ways but so not in others..

 

I gotta take a break after this. Sheesh emotions much??!?

[waterwoman]

after his infidelity as well .

 

Have to agree with most of the previous replies that it isn't a good relationship to be in and it isn't a good place for your children.

 

Take care x