Favorite Teachers/Pastors

[pureinheart]

15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father[d] is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever. (1 John 2)

 

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. (1 Timothy

 

Lastly...

 

I've never heard a Joel Osteen sermon where the following things are on the "want list": humility, purity of heart, repentance, brokenness...etc...or anything that the Bible tells us to strive for.

 

His life and attitude resonates all of these things and is communicated by teaching to trust God in all things and to not worry. Not to mention, love, joy, peace, hope, and long suffering, along with the Beatitudes. This is all very Biblical and if we don't follow these things it is sin.

[M30USA]

His life and attitude resonates all of these things and is communicated by teaching to trust God in all things and to not worry. Not to mention, love, joy, peace, hope, and long suffering, along with the Beatitudes. This is all very Biblical and if we don't follow these things it is sin.

 

Pureinheart,

 

The primary issue with Osteen is that his sermons tell us to seek health, wealth and prosperity. While these may seem like good things, there are glaring problems with it:

 

1) We are never taught ANYWHERE in Scripture to seek health, wealth and prosperity. In fact, we are taught just the opposite--to not desire these things since the world is passing away.

 

2) Has Osteen EVER mentioned sin or repentance? The Gospel cannot exist without understanding sin. Jesus means nothing to a person unless that person has come to understand their own spiritual depravity.

 

3) Here is what we SHOULD seek: humility, purity of heart, repentance, and brokenness.

 

4) When one watches Osteen, they aren't left with the knowledge that our primary purpose in this life is to be conformed into the image of Jesus Christ.

 

5) Osteen mistakenly claims that Jesus' death on cross was done to save us from mediocrity, to help us live in abundance, and to live victoriously above our circumstances. The truth is that his death saved us from eternal hell. Osteen tries to make a spiritual salvation issue into a material, temporal issue.

[mercy]

God does not expect us to stay in that broken state.

 

[M30USA]

God does not expect us to stay in that broken state.

 

 

Hmmm...considering the current state of the world, the pride of the human heart, and the bent of mankind against God (this includes Christians), it's more than fair to say that being in a state of brokenness makes us rely more upon God than does a state of wealth/prosperity.

 

Was it not Jesus, himself, who said that it's easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven? This is because, generally, the more we have here, the less our hearts are invested in Heaven.

 

[M30USA]

Mercy,

 

Your view on this issue makes perfect sense. It's the natural, normal view that we have. However, as with many other topics, it's the direct opposite of what God Word's says. This is why we must be extra cautious to not project our own views into what Scripture says. Our own views are fallen and corrupt. God's Word is living, pure, and will stand forever.

[Eve]

EVE!!!!! It's on right now (It's Supernatural)

 

I am going to start watching It's Supernatural online because it is on too late in the UK. Can't promote that show enough. Proper spiritual food from normal people who often were just minding their own business.

 

Pureinheart - I also love Creflo Dollar - fickle I know but that man has really good skin.

 

Regarding the issue of who is real and who is not in Preacher terms. I reckon that we are all on different levels and it is important to have people speak to you at your level. I like Joel much muchly. He has spoken into my life many many times. Creflo though, that man has broken off some dross that needed to get broken off my soul. Things I had been praying about in spirit. Creflo is on a different level.. I am praying in tongues whilst listening to him - he is not playing.

 

So, they are both cool to me as long as I am fed on the level I need feeding. I have resolved that that is for me to sort out with God. Also, I think in the later stages of being a Christian your spirit starts trying to speak too as you grow in love. We must be careful that we ask to be cleansed before we go out to others because what is a distraction to us can be covered by Grace for another by God's love for them. So sometimes it is important that we STFU and wait for God.

 

God Has our backs so let's support one another and bear each others pain as well as happiness.

 

Obviously this does not mean we should put up with everyone and not say anything.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[TheFinalWord]

I'm mostly replying to new Christians unsure how to sort out this mess

 

If you're a new Christian, spend at least a year studying the bible on your own. Then you will be more equipped to "chew up the meat and spit out the bones" from various ministries (BTW most of these "false prophet" exhibitions are based on whether the pastor is Calvinist or Arminian in their theology).

 

And for other Christians to take time to create web sites and videos attacking another ministry...how do you have time for that? Are you absolutely sure that God called you to do that and there is nothing better He wants you to be doing? Really petty antics for a Christian to be involved with IMHO. What about the homeless guy living under the bridge? What about the elderly folks down the street w/ no one to talk to to? What about the kids in the cancer ward? Spend time in ministry and you won't have time to be a busy body. Just my 2 cents.

Edited September 29, 2012 by TheFinalWord

[M30USA]

I'm mostly replying to new Christians unsure how to sort out this mess

 

If you're a new Christian, spend at least a year studying the bible on your own. Then you will be more equipped to "chew up the meat and spit out the bones" from various ministries (BTW most of these "false prophet" exhibitions are based on whether the pastor is Calvinist or Arminian in their theology).

 

And for other Christians to take time to create web sites and videos attacking another ministry...how do you have time for that? Are you absolutely sure that God called you to do that and there is nothing better He wants you to be doing? Really petty antics for a Christian to be involved with IMHO. What about the homeless guy living under the bridge? What about the elderly folks down the street w/ no one to talk to to? What about the kids in the cancer ward? Spend time in ministry and you won't have time to be a busy body. Just my 2 cents.

 

Hmm...I agree with most of what you say. Except that Paul specificially instructs us to discern true doctrine from false doctrine. The reason is because these false teachers are capable of such subtle destruction that they need to be called out. Paul called out false teachers. The angel, in the vision to John on Patmos, called out false teachers and doctrine.

[M30USA]

Are you planning to met with those you consider false profits to call them our or are you only going to dog those who listen to the message?

 

Dog? As far as I know, I haven't made a single personal comment about any of Osteen's listeners on here. All I've done is strictly address his doctrine. I'm sorry if anyone has taken offense.

[M30USA]

Ok, so let's discuss Osteen's doctrine. Let's not make this about me, you or anyone personally. Strictly doctrine. Let me know why you think Osteen is a legitimate pastor who teaches God's Word. Lets use Scriptural references and comparison, since the Bible is the foundation of our faith.

[M30USA]

I don't claim to be smart or anything, but I'm pretty sure God has given me a spiritual gift which Paul referred to as "the discernment of Spirits". I am NOT gifted in leadership, social skills, or speaking. But I can usually see right through a pastor's basic message pretty quickly--whether it is biblical or not. I don't claim to have any personally revealed knowledge from God, though. Just Scripture, straight up.

[HisGraceisSufficient]

? it wasn't denied!

 

 

My favorite teacher is CS Lewis. And does Tolkein count? Because the image of Smeagol=sin's power has been burned into my brain

 

 

To those who have read Tozer or Stanley, can you recommend any books in particular?

 

Tozer--"Pursuit of God." Great book!

 

 

God may allow His servant to succeed when He has disciplined him to a point where he does not need to succeed to be happy. The man who is elated by success and is cast down by failure is still a carnal man. At best his fruit will have a worm in it.

12 up, 1 down

 

A W Tozer

 

Jesus IS about humility, brokenness and denial of self. If Christ Himself suffered, why do we expect comfort and refuse suffering?

[M30USA]

C.S. Lewis is awesome. He didn't consider himself a theologian, but I would. I mean what is a theologian, technically?

[HisGraceisSufficient]

I don't claim to be smart or anything, but I'm pretty sure God has given me a spiritual gift which Paul referred to as "the discernment of Spirits". I am NOT gifted in leadership, social skills, or speaking. But I can usually see right through a pastor's basic message pretty quickly--whether it is biblical or not. I don't claim to have any personally revealed knowledge from God, though. Just Scripture, straight up.

 

Totally agree. I am the same way, M30 and I will add that nearly all televangelists are not based in Christ, but in self promotion and exaltation. Notice that these televangelists have their big, ol face on the cover of their book? A subtle but powerful message: its more about them and their success.

[TheFinalWord]

Hmm...I agree with most of what you say. Except that Paul specificially instructs us to discern true doctrine from false doctrine. The reason is because these false teachers are capable of such subtle destruction that they need to be called out. Paul called out false teachers. The angel, in the vision to John on Patmos, called out false teachers and doctrine.

 

I agree, but I personally think most of these "call outs" of "false teachers" are theology-based (Calvinism vs. Arminianism) and not doctrine-based, i.e. Jesus is the only way, Trinity, hell is real, etc. Christians should spend more time studying the bible on their own so they can discern for themselves. With spiritual maturity it becomes quite easy to sift teachings into "meat" and "bones to spit out" categories. For example, I am not a young earth creationists, but I can still watch Ken Ham and get something out of it.

 

For example, I am not a Calvinist, but I still watch John Piper and think he has a lot of wisdom. I can watch him and not get offended and create web sites in an attempt to destroy him. I don't think God called us to destroy another Christian. One thing I have noticed about this "false teacher" call outs is they quite frequently create extremely judgmental Christians. What is the end result of this calling out? Are people really becoming closer to God or are they becoming more judgmental? Something for the body of Christ to think about. We are the body Can my right arm beat my left arm with a stick and be as effective?

 

I think John Piper (Calvinist) has the right idea and I admire him for taking his position to accept Rick Warren (Arminian)

 

 

A bit of a personal story if I can be permitted

 

When it comes to theology, I am pretty open minded if the end result is the same doctrine. For example, 6 literal days or 6 long days. The theology is different, but the outcome is the same: God created. Sprinkling or submersion, outcome is the same: water baptism. Free will/no free will: outcome is the same, preach the gospel. What I am not willing to waiver on is morality. To me it's black and white. Now, I went to one church years ago where the pastor got up and gave a very interesting interpretation of what the white horse in Revelation 6 meant. Very interesting, and nothing I had ever heard before. I was open to it. After that he proceeded to bash Hal Lindsey (Hal Lindsey is a prophecy teacher) for 45 minutes I left the church. Why? I think God has called pastors to be a moral example for their congregation. For a pastor to get up in front of new Christians and demonstrate that is okay to judge, ridicule, and decimate another Christian is totally appalling to me. Especially since he just gave a brand new interpretation. So he wants us to be open to his opinion, but not Hal Lindsey over what? Something totally insignificant to the outcome of Revelation: Jesus Christ wins in the end. If he wants to share his personal opinions about Pastor X or Teacher Y with the elders, that is one thing. But to get up in front of new converts and provide an example that is okay to judge, bash, and mock other Christian leaders? No way. He better have solid evidence from God that he can share with the church before his new line of "God's work" b/c I am not tithing to a ministry that will use it to bash other Christian ministries. Just my 2 cents.

Edited September 29, 2012 by TheFinalWord

[M30USA]

Totally agree. I am the same way, M30 and I will add that nearly all televangelists are not based in Christ, but in self promotion and exaltation. Notice that these televangelists have their big, ol face on the cover of their book? A subtle but powerful message: its more about them and their success.

 

Just look at how Jesus, himself, responded to all that Satan said to him. Satan told him to turn the rocks into bread (represents health). Satan told him to jump off the temple corner and show his glory when the angels come to rescue him (represents what Osteen calls "living in victory" or "living above your circumstances). Satan also offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth and all their splendor (represents wealth, "word of faith" or "name it and claim it" principle).

 

What did Jesus do? He refused. And we should, too, since we are instructed to be like him.

[HisGraceisSufficient]

Just look at how Jesus, himself, responded to all that Satan said to him. Satan told him to turn the rocks into bread (represents health). Satan told him to jump off the temple corner and show his glory when the angels come to rescue him (represents what Osteen calls "living in victory" or "living above your circumstances). Satan also offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth and all their splendor (represents wealth, "word of faith" or "name it and claim it" principle).

 

What did Jesus do? He refused. And we should, too, since we are instructed to be like him.

 

Exactly. Thomas a Kempis says, "It is better to have less than more." It isn't about increasing in wealth, prosperity or honor but about Christ increasing in us. And, we are to decrease. Paul speaks in Colossians that to "have Christ is to have everything." In the end, all that matters is Jesus and how much we surrendered to Him and not to our desires.

[M30USA]

Exactly. Thomas a Kempis says, "It is better to have less than more." It isn't about increasing in wealth, prosperity or honor but about Christ increasing in us. And, we are to decrease. Paul speaks in Colossians that to "have Christ is to have everything." In the end, all that matters is Jesus and how much we surrendered to Him and not to our desires.

 

Jesus would say that you are blessed, since this has not been revealed to you by man, but from above.

[Eve]

Totally agree. I am the same way, M30 and I will add that nearly all televangelists are not based in Christ, but in self promotion and exaltation. Notice that these televangelists have their big, ol face on the cover of their book? A subtle but powerful message: its more about them and their success.

 

Oh boy..

 

Here we go.

 

Lord help us to not be consumed with the self.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[M30USA]

Oh boy..

 

Here we go.

 

Lord help us to not be consumed with the self.

 

Take care,

Eve x

 

How ironic. A person promotes the idea of decreasing the self and shuns pastors who teach how to gain more and more. Yet you tell her to not be consumed with the self. Ironic.

[Eve]

How ironic. A person promotes the idea of decreasing the self and shuns pastors who teach how to gain more and more. Yet you tell her to not be consumed with the self. Ironic.

 

Yeah, never mind. I am the devil.

 

Thankfully I know I am not.

 

I see you. You are looking without Christ for Christ.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[mercy]

Mercy,

 

Your view on this issue makes perfect sense. It's the natural, normal view that we have. However, as with many other topics, it's the direct opposite of what God Word's says. This is why we must be extra cautious to not project our own views into what Scripture says. Our own views are fallen and corrupt. God's Word is living, pure, and will stand forever.

 

Please just respect others differences. It's all I ask.

[pie2]

Hmmm...considering the current state of the world, the pride of the human heart, and the bent of mankind against God (this includes Christians), it's more than fair to say that being in a state of brokenness makes us rely more upon God than does a state of wealth/prosperity.

 

Was it not Jesus, himself, who said that it's easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven? This is because, generally, the more we have here, the less our hearts are invested in Heaven.

 

 

 

I'm glad you mentioned Watchman Nee...his words do not beat around the bush. I love them.

 

Has anyone read the book He and I by Gabrielle Bossis? She was a Christian woman in France in the 1800s, and the book is basically her diary. It's a very intimate look at the personal relationship we can have with God

[M30USA]

Please just respect others differences. It's all I ask.

 

Okay, I will. But just realize I was never criticizing anyone here. Just Osteen's doctrine. So I apologize if that indirectly offends anyone.

[pureinheart]

Pureinheart,

 

The primary issue with Osteen is that his sermons tell us to seek health, wealth and prosperity. While these may seem like good things, there are glaring problems with it:

 

1) We are never taught ANYWHERE in Scripture to seek health, wealth and prosperity. In fact, we are taught just the opposite--to not desire these things since the world is passing away.

 

2) Has Osteen EVER mentioned sin or repentance? The Gospel cannot exist without understanding sin. Jesus means nothing to a person unless that person has come to understand their own spiritual depravity.

 

3) Here is what we SHOULD seek: humility, purity of heart, repentance, and brokenness.

 

4) When one watches Osteen, they aren't left with the knowledge that our primary purpose in this life is to be conformed into the image of Jesus Christ.

 

5) Osteen mistakenly claims that Jesus' death on cross was done to save us from mediocrity, to help us live in abundance, and to live victoriously above our circumstances. The truth is that his death saved us from eternal hell. Osteen tries to make a spiritual salvation issue into a material, temporal issue.

 

Aren't our bodies temples of the Holy Spirit?

 

3 John 1:2

 

New King James Version (NKJV)

 

[sIZE=2]2 Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers. [/sIZE]

 

I would look up more Scriptures, although am really tired:) so will just say this in my own words.

 

The main message I get out of Joels ministering is to trust God no matter what. This in and of itself leads to all of the things you listed IMO.

 

M30, I get the feeling and mean no disrespect by this, that life should be a bumber, or that God expects life to be a bumber.

 

You know, at work I used to laugh and laugh very loud in a big hanger and was heard EVERYWHERE. I was bubbly and joyful all of the time. This was contagious and most people told me I had a glow ...they could see the joy of the Lord...there were a couple of people that hated the joy and said it was fake and there must be something wrong with me.