Happily Married

[Quiet Storm]

It's also easy for adult children to look back on their bickering parents and say "I didn't want you staying married for me".

 

However, most of these kids don't realize the benefits they got from their parents choices and the shelter the marriage provided, because they never had to experience the flip side.

[frozensprouts]

the idea that " in a perfect world, parents would divorce if they were miserable, but it's not a perfect world and some cheat" sounds very defeatist to me.

 

as an adult, one has choices to make, and if it's in the best interests of your children to divorce, then do so. someone saying that children shouldn't be exposed to adult problems and then going and getting involved in an affair, in whatever capacity, is so hypocritical...after all, the very act of having an affair ( something that can turn a child' life upside down) exposes them to adult problems in a very negative way. if you are dead set against divorce but still feel you need some "outside recreation" then talk to your spouse about how you feel and let them know what you plan to do. that's called being an adult...but that's hard, and too many wayward spouses would rather totally hide the affair as deeply as they can, or figure that their spouse must know they are cheating, but since they don't say anything and act normal ( or maybe just a bit sad) they must know about it but are giving it their tacit approval...they figure their betrayed spouse is okay with them cheating ( but never asked them)

 

( this especially holds true for those parents who say they are so unhappy that there is no other alternative for them to find happiness than to cheat, but when the affair is exposed, they beg and do everything they can to stay...how damned bad can it be if they do that? then, if their spouse won't take them back, they go back to it being a horrible marriage... can you say " sour grapes"? there, I just knew you could)

[Mme. Chaucer]

Climb a little higher on your horse there... you seem to have a special hatred for me. Do I strike a nerve with you somehow? Perhaps you should consider placing me on ignore.

 

I don't have any hatred for you at all. Some things you've said do strike nerves with me, particularly the stuff about how his familial relationships are without significance to you (I read that as tremendously egotistical and disrespectful) and that you think you have "rights" that involve knowing about his other relationships - when your very relationship would not exist if these "rights" were also accorded to others.

 

Why does this strike a nerve with me? Because the familial relationships of ALL the people close to me are meaningful to me. I believe in considering and respecting them. It is novel, in a creepy way, to encounter people who don't feel that way at all.

 

I enjoy challenging your perspectives. You seem stereotypical of a woman who goes for "taken" men, mostly defined by selfishness. Whatever makes you feel good in the current moment, regardless of repercussions to other people, is fine, right?

[ThatJustHappened]

You can believe I'm bitter all you like if it makes you happy. Fact is, he's never once told me he was staying for his kids. If there was anything that would make me dump him that comment would probably be it. It bugs me when I hear of married men (and women) doing so. It bugs me when I hear people tell themselves they are staying for the kids and think it puts a lot of pressure on those kids for them to be "unhappy" all that time for them.

You were so busy trying to twist what I was actually saying that you missed that largely I AGREE with you. I think it's one of the worst things someone can do, to use their children as their excuse. It's not honest, it's not fair to the kids and it's setting the kids up to be hurt. You are welcome to infer any other meaning out of that if you'd like, but I'm usually pretty clear about saying what I mean.

 

How would the kids ever find out that their parent used them as an excuse to stay in the marriage? That excuse is for the benefit of the OW/M. It's exactly that..an excuse. An excuse is not a reason..it's not necessarily true. It just keeps the OW/M at bay.

[mercy]

In the context of this thread, and this forum, for the most part we are talking about subjecting children to a life defined by parental lying, sneaking, emotional abandonment and cheating - not divorce.

 

I am probably not alone here in believing that it would be far preferable for children if a person who wanted to have sex with various folks besides their husband or wife would get a divorce rather than to lie and cheat.

 

Kids pick up on a lot. And being honest in ones life is one of the best things a person can model for their children.

 

It is by far the greatest gift you can give a child.

[ThatJustHappened]

First of all, we're talking specifically about cheating parents telling their kids that they stayed together because of them..not about life in general.

 

Second, 5 people said they knew their parents stayed together for them..but the ones who don't know that their parents stayed together for them can't post about it because they don't know. So that point is moot.

 

5 cases of a disease does not equal an epidemic. People seek this website out when they're hurting..when they need help. That doesn't mean it's normal. My mom died of a disease that less than 20 people die of per year..but if I go to a website that specializes in that disease, of course I'm going to find other people who have had the same experience as me.

 

I refer you to FrozenSprouts post above, as she said it far more eloquently than I did. A good parent does put the kids' needs first.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Would you rather I lie? That seems... ridiculous.

 

I wonder why you got that impression. No, I would not rather you lie. Lying is one of the things that I hate. I've done it myself - and I hate it.

 

Why should I give a damn about the sanctity of his marriage? He didn't. That's always been my point.

 

I get that you think that his being a cheating dishonest person makes it not count that you are colluding in this with him. That is why it bothers me to read what you write. Your sense of "deserving to be happy" and anybody's expense is … wrong. And very entitled.

 

It reminds me of some arguments I had with my daughter when she was a teenager, and sometimes still have now that she is in her 20's. Some of her peers make bad choices, and she says it doesn't matter because either no bad came of it, or their families did not care. I think it's an ethical quesiton and my belief is that there actually are things that are inherently "wrong," regardless of how they are perceived by humans. Not everything is subjective. Lying, cheating and misleading others so you can "be happy" is in the realm of "wrong." That's my belief.

 

It's a basic disconnect between my point of view on life and yours.

 

I haven't read all of your posts, but WHY does the fact that person who evidently thinks of his own wife - the mother of his children - is unworthy of even a shred of respect, and who completely disrespects the pact that he chose to enter with her - considered by YOU to be "worthy"? I think this makes him sound really low, weak and immoral. Doesn't this bother you?

 

 

I think it's comical, truly comical that you think I'm the stereotype of someone who goes for taken men.

 

I married my high school sweetheart. We were both faithful until the day I lost him.

 

Because of the choice you make NOW, and the way you express how you feel about it. Sounds stereotypical.

 

And you know what? I deserve to be happy too…

 

No you don't. That is a false and very entitled notion. None of us "deserve to be happy," or anything else. Life is not about "deserve." Only first world people blinded by their own sense of innate superiority can possibly think this way.

 

But your particular sense that your personal entitlement to "being happy" is what puts you in the realm of the "typical" affair-haver, in my opinion.

[mercy]

No you don't. That is a false and very entitled notion. None of us "deserve to be happy," or anything else. Life is not about "deserve." Only first world people blinded by their own sense of innate superiority can possibly think this way.

 

Ah, your posts always make me think. I take a thought of yours and get lost 'in google'. Thank you. My sufi teacher brought up the same thing and now you. I'd say there's a lesson here for me. And maybe others.

[Radagast]

I hear your incredible unhappiness bro.

 

You sacrifice for the kids and family is to be admired.

 

I hope your OW does not take time away from your children.

 

I also hope you have a low maintenance OW that knows your first duty is to the family.

 

In many cultures concubines provide a function (or a service).

 

If you are truly married to the wife from hell I cannot blame you for having a concubine. There are exceptions to every rule.

 

Amazingly you stay despite a bad marriage. That explains why most OWs with expectations get the shaft on d-day.

 

I did stay for decades. And then I experienced a loving, caring relationship with my lover and I left my marriage and married my former lover. My "incredible unhappiness" is safely in the past. I am blissfully married now and have no regrets about leaving, but I do feel that my joy at leaving does not negate those reasons that motivated me to stay for so long.

[Radagast]

What, IN YOU, prevented you from making change? You describe a deep sense of selflessness, of serving others before yourself...where are YOU at in all of this?

 

Exactly where I described. Providing for my family. Doing what I was brought up to do. Being the good boy my mother would be proud of.

 

Yes of course it was a choice. I have never denied that. I made the choice to live by the values I was brought up with. I was taught that if you take on responsibilities then you stand by those and fulfill those, and providing for my family materially and emotionally was one of those undertakings. I made the choice to stand by that, despite the not inconsiderable cost to myself (as I've come to understand it, through counselling). At the time I simply saw it as doing what it behove any man to do.

 

It was only through counselling that I came to understand and accept that my own happiness and needs mattered too. And that my responsibility extended to myself as well as to my family, and that the way I was living (and had been choosing to live) was not sustainable.

[Radagast]

How is cheating on your spouse 'putting your children first'?

 

It allowed me to stick out the marriage for longer, not breaking up the home for my children until they were older and able to cope better with the split.

[Radagast]

Ahem! Radagast - I think you are guilty of selectively reading my post about 'the ideal world'. I went on to see that we don't live in an ideal world hence people not doing the right thing all the time. I have immense sympathy for people struggling in a complex situation who don't know which way to turn - that's most of us IME at some time or the other.

 

I'm sorry, I did not intend to give the impression I was dismissing your view. I was agreeing with you on the part I quoted, and amplifying it from my experience. I apologise if you thought I was trying to undermine your view. That was not my intention.

[Radagast]

For some marriages this is correct. If the kids are under siege due to highly dysfunctional crazoid parents then perhaps a divorce could be better. However, this only applies to marriages from hell.

 

 

 

You have got to be kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Psychiatry. 1991 Aug;54(3):268-80.

Academic performance in children of divorce: psychological resilience and vulnerability.

Mulholland DJ, Watt NF, Philpott A, Sarlin N.

Source

Major General James H. Rumbaugh Child and Adolescent Mental Health Clinic, Fayetteville, NC 28303.

Abstract

Parental divorce can be conceptualized as a stressful event for all children, but one must recognize that reactions to divorce can vary widely among children. This investigation was based on two basic ideas: 1) children of divorce as a group would show deficits in academic performance compared to children from intact families, even several years after their parents' separation, and 2) because factors that promote psychological resilience and vulnerability, we expected to find normal heterogeneity within the divorce sample. Among 96 middle-school adolescents from a suburban school district near Denver, children of divorce showed significant performance deficits in academic achievement, as reflected in grade-point average and scholastic motivation in middle school, but not in nationally normed tests of scholastic aptitude and other less direct measures of behavioral conformity. An analysis of GPA over time revealed strikingly disparate patterns of achievement between divorce and control groups. Corresponding patterns of scholastic aptitude scores, absence from school and comportment revealed no systematic differences over time. These results suggest strongly that parental divorce can be a critical event in the academic development of children. Large differences in academic achievement between our divorce group as a whole and the controls cannot be attributed, at least at the time of sampling, to differences in social class or intellectual ability. Despite a similar family background, i.e., marital dissolution, a minority of the children of divorce showed vulnerability in the pattern of academic achievement over time while the majority demonstrated academic careers not unlike that of the controls.

 

 

 

A 60 year literature review of 347 experimental studies confirmed that many studies have concluded that divorce has negative consequences for children's academic achievement (Kunz, 1992).

It was interesting to see if students whose families were intact had significantly different test scores and grades from those students who's parents had been separated or divorced. Such factors as emotional distraction and confusion were thought to be strong indicators of a difference in these two populations of students. Thus, the hypothesis would be that the students who had to deal with another factor in life, such as the divorce or separation of their parents, would achieve lower test scores and grades than those who did not have to deal with such distractions.

 

The Effects on Academics of Children Who Come from Divorced Families - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

 

Children of divorce in the 1990s: An update of the Amato and Keith (1991) meta-analysis.

Amato, Paul R.

Journal of Family Psychology, Vol 15(3), Sep 2001, 355-370. doi: 10.1037/0893-3200.15.3.355

Abstract

The present study updates the P. R. Amato and B. Keith (1991) meta-analysis of children and divorce with a new analysis of 67 studies published in the 1990s. Compared with children with continuously married parents, children with divorced parents continued to score significantly lower on measures of academic achievement, conduct, psychological adjustment, self-concept, and social relations. After controlling for study characteristics. curvilinear trends with respect to decade of publication were present for academic achievement, psychological well-being, self-concept, and social relations. For these outcomes, the gap between children with divorced and married parents decreased during the 1980s and increased again during the 1990s. (PsycINFO Database Record © 2012 APA, all rights reserved)

 

I cannot comment on these studies, as I have not read them, but anecdotally I can relate that my children both suffered terribly during my first separation from my then-wife, emotionally, academically and socially. It was their trauma that made me agree to take her back. Their emotions stabilised over time but they were emotionally withdrawn, socially withdrawn and their academic performance remained of concern after their mother moved back in. It was only later, when I became involved in my affair, that they started to develop an interest in their schoolwork, form lasting friendships and communicate more readily with their peers and with me. This may have been due to their being older, it may have been due to my being happier and more open emotionally myself, or it may have been due to the way in which my then-wife and I led entirely separate lives and so had little occasion to interact, thus reducing the tension and friction in the house, or any combination of those or other factors. But things did improve a little during that time.

 

The real, profound and lasting (so far!) improvement however came when I finally separated from their mother after a few years of the affair. By that stage they were older teenagers with their own relationship experience and had the lexicon with which to discuss such issues. After the split their schoolwork improved dramatically, their social life escalated (in part because they moved with me to a village closer to their school, where more of their friends lived and on a reliable bus route) and they became more confident emotionally, largely I assume as a result of family and individual counselling.

 

I suspect that the difference between the impact of the first separation on my children's performance (academically, as well as socially and emotionally) being negative, and the second split being positive, was due to both how the split was handled (badly the first time, better the second) as well as the difference in maturity. So I would say that whether a divorce has a positive or negative outcome for the children depends only in part on whether the marriage preceding the split was "from hell" or tolerable (to the children) and how that compares to the post-separation situation. It depends also on how the actual split happens, and how informed and involved the children are in that process, and how much control they feel they have over the process and the outcomes. Without knowing to what extent that data was collected in the studies being cited here (it is not mentioned in the abstracts) and to what extent differences in such factors were controlled for, I find it hard to interpret the results meaningfully except in the broadest polemic terms ("divorce bad, marriage good").

[ThatJustHappened]

It allowed me to stick out the marriage for longer, not breaking up the home for my children until they were older and able to cope better with the split.

 

So the example you set for your kids that it's ok to lie and cheat and sneak around and hurt other people as long as it's making you happy. If only they gave awards for parenting...

[firstandlast]

AR, it's hard not to take it personally when they drop your heart and don't even look back because they're on their way to make it up to the W. I do take it personally, at least for now.

 

frenchdoll, I approached mine too, and I am allegedly "the woman of his dreams". Yeah, dreams... because right now he's home with the woman of his reality.

 

When my exOW broke up with me to give her marriage another shot, I hurt but wasn't angry. I understood that her marriage was important and the devastation I had caused by getting involved.

 

What hurt is when she turned around and had another affair.

[Radagast]

So the example you set for your kids that it's ok to lie and cheat and sneak around and hurt other people as long as it's making you happy. If only they gave awards for parenting...

 

Did you actually read what I wrote? Because this comment bears absolutely no resemblance to what I stated or lived, or what my children experienced.

 

My children were informed of the affair while it was still an affair. They knew and understood the circumstances, and were involved in the decision making and the resolution. The only person who did not know about the affair until close to the end was my ex-wife, and they knew that and understood why and supported that decision until the timing was appropriate to inform her of our decision. This was all exhaustively dealt with during family counselling. I'm afraid your assumptions are way off the mark.

[ThatJustHappened]

Did you actually read what I wrote? Because this comment bears absolutely no resemblance to what I stated or lived, or what my children experienced.

 

My children were informed of the affair while it was still an affair. They knew and understood the circumstances, and were involved in the decision making and the resolution. The only person who did not know about the affair until close to the end was my ex-wife, and they knew that and understood why and supported that decision until the timing was appropriate to inform her of our decision. This was all exhaustively dealt with during family counselling. I'm afraid your assumptions are way off the mark.

 

So you made your kids lie to their own mother for you? That's even worse than my assumption! Your poor children.