What do I believe?

[iliveinabox]

Hello everyone, this is my first post and first time here - so go easy on me! :-)

 

I recently married my best friend of many years.

Before the marriage I was often scared that something was off and even tried to call off the wedding a few times but he would always talk me down, even if he had to call off work to do so.

He always claimed he never looked at porn which I thought was totally outrageous. He's a computer engineer and has enlightened me on all sorts of ways of hiding documents and actions on the internet and desktop.

I always tried to assure him that it's okay to be tempted, to look at porn, and that sex is just biological but he would still insist that he was "different". I also told him it's okay to have crushes or to notice attractive people, since that's just natural. I always have been respectful to him and would tell him anytime I found another man attractive or had a crush. (Which happens embarrassingly often.) As a result he loved it, and he tells me he's so lucky to have a women he can trust.

Of course I tell him I want the same honesty, but he insists that he doesn't "check out" other women anymore. He insists that he never even thinks of any sort of sex outside of me.

 

I know in my heart that no one can be that perfect, I know he's not a robot. So a few days after the wedding (we didn't have enough money for a real honeymoon since we spent our honeymoon money on a family emergency.) We were in our new apartment and he got up to go to the bathroom. I guess I got bored or something, so I got up to see what he's up to (I know it sounds weird, but married people do weird things sometimes.) when I walked in he was on his laptop and I could see a naked women in the reflection of the mirror. I got a smirk to just lightly tease him and said, "Whatcha doin'?". He then closed out of the window and said, "Oh nothing, just on slick deals.."

Of course I got mad and confused, so I asked why he would lie and I told him what I had seen. After many times of him trying to insist I was wrong, he finally told me he was "watching a documentary" and felt uncomfortable because there was a scene with a nude women........

I then got mad for him to lie to me. So I packed some clothing and began to head off to a hotel. He started crying uncontrollably pleading for me to not leave. I told him the only way for me to stay is if I can have a marriage of full honesty.

So he sat me down and over the course of a few hours he literally told me everything he has ever felt guilty of since he was a child! He told me of all the porn, the lies, that once his father raped his mother and she cried for my husband to save her but he got scared and acted like he couldn't hear her. He told me that while we were engaged he would go into the bathrooms at work and jerk off to porn on his phone. He told me things I wish I had never heard, things I would never mention to anyone (not even you anonymous strangers) because I wish I never new myself, and I have now forgiven him entirely.

After that, for about a week or so he would randomly wake me up or interrupt dinner to tell me some regret he forgot to mention. Even if it was something incredibly mundane. He told me that he felt like a new man and he could have a second chance to really be an honest man, to really be the man he always pretended to be.

 

My problem is he STILL insists that he never looks at other women, he never thinks of sex with anyone but me, and that he never has a crush on anyone else (during the relationship, of course). I can forgive almost anything, but I struggle to forgive a lie because I never know when I liar stops and the truth begins!

Edited September 28, 2012 by iliveinabox

[ThatJustHappened]

Maybe it's just the way this was written, but you don't sound all that happy with your marriage. Do you even want to be with him anymore or are you just sticking around out of guilt?

 

He sounds like he needs some SERIOUS therapy.

[iliveinabox]

I do love him. I love him unlike I've loved anyone before. I do feel sometimes scared of the social stigma that would occur if we were to divorce. I think of divorce because marriage in general has proven to be much more difficult than I had imagined, to trust in someone like this. This other person has so much power to tear me down just because he's weak. I still love him though.

I think I come off the way to do because I have been in so many painful relationships, from being cheated on, lied to, and just straight up abused. He seems so sweet, almost too perfect to me. I don't want to be played like a tuba and believe in stupid lies, because someone I love is a coward. So that's why I'm so hesitant sounding, and why I have always been a bit scared of him.

 

You say he needs therapy. What exactly makes you say that? I know he had a bit of a breakdown and has had many problems. He seems to have overcome them. My big thing is all of the lying over stupid stuff that's driving me crazy! Maybe I'm wrong to judge though, in many places I read it's normal for men to lie about their sexuality. Maybe he is telling the truth and everything I've read that men are just sex machines for biology's sake is not necessarily true.

It just hurts when I so disparately want him to know he can open up to me. I want to know what to expect from him. His father was a cheater, his father's father was a cheater, and I want to know who he really is in case he's the third in a row.

[JamesM]

 

You say he needs therapy. What exactly makes you say that? I know he had a bit of a breakdown and has had many problems. He seems to have overcome them.

 

No, the fact that he kept all of this until after you were married means he was afraid you would leave him no matter what you said.

 

If he has never had therapy for his past, then it will continue to haunt him, you, and your marriage.

 

 

My big thing is all of the lying over stupid stuff that's driving me crazy! Maybe I'm wrong to judge though, in many places I read it's normal for men to lie about their sexuality. Maybe he is telling the truth and everything I've read that men are just sex machines for biology's sake is not necessarily true.

 

The fact that he lied and omitted telling you abut his past makes me think he is lying about this. Why? Guessing it has something to do with how he viewed his parents' marriage. His father was his role model both good and bad. Again, seeing your mother raped is traumatic. Ignoring her and not helping her will create alot of guilt. This must be dealt with.

 

It just hurts when I so disparately want him to know he can open up to me. I want to know what to expect from him. His father was a cheater, his father's father was a cheater, and I want to know who he really is in case he's the third in a row.

 

If he is already hiding this much from you, then you have reason to be concerned. I would suggest therapy for him and marriage counseling for the both of you. The only way he can not become a cheater IMO is by facing his demons.

[iliveinabox]

Thanks for your advise James. Therapy I think would be a big step to take, since we would have to talk about such personal things with someone. I'll try though.

If you don't mind I think I will show him the conversation here so he can see an outsider's perspective. Unless you don't think that's a good idea. He did refuse to look at my post in the first place, because he said he didn't want to be mad at me for saying negative things.

Truth is I appreciate the anonymous feed back, so thanks.

[ThatJustHappened]

I do love him. I love him unlike I've loved anyone before. I do feel sometimes scared of the social stigma that would occur if we were to divorce. I think of divorce because marriage in general has proven to be much more difficult than I had imagined, to trust in someone like this. This other person has so much power to tear me down just because he's weak. I still love him though.

I think I come off the way to do because I have been in so many painful relationships, from being cheated on, lied to, and just straight up abused. He seems so sweet, almost too perfect to me. I don't want to be played like a tuba and believe in stupid lies, because someone I love is a coward. So that's why I'm so hesitant sounding, and why I have always been a bit scared of him.

 

You say he needs therapy. What exactly makes you say that? I know he had a bit of a breakdown and has had many problems. He seems to have overcome them. My big thing is all of the lying over stupid stuff that's driving me crazy! Maybe I'm wrong to judge though, in many places I read it's normal for men to lie about their sexuality. Maybe he is telling the truth and everything I've read that men are just sex machines for biology's sake is not necessarily true.

It just hurts when I so disparately want him to know he can open up to me. I want to know what to expect from him. His father was a cheater, his father's father was a cheater, and I want to know who he really is in case he's the third in a row.

 

He's had more than 'a bit of a breakdown'. He keeps huge chunks of himself hidden from you. He is terrified of you leaving and had to beg you to stay more than once. He's still not opening up to you. He hasn't overcome anything.

 

Therapy is a necessity. He doesn't want to open up to you because you're too close to the situation and he's afraid of your reaction. Talking to an objective outside party can be extremely helpful. Therapists have seen it all..they don't judge and they don't leave you if they don't like what you have to say. I hope he takes this advice.

[iliveinabox]

I'm just going to try and write his defense, since I have had this conversation with him numerous times. He often says the same things.

 

I know he's going to fight the therapy, that's just because he's incredibly shy.

He's going to say that when he laid it out on the table, he laid it ALL out. He says the weight that was lifted after telling me everything is something he treasures, and he stays honest now so keep the weight off. (not those exact words because that would be too corny)

He also says that if he had 'thoughts' of anyone else he would have no problem telling me, because thoughts of another women is nothing compared to the things he has already told me.

In his defense, he did tell me in the big revealing (I didn't mention it because I didn't want to go on about details the way some do) he said he had a crush on a girl in a class he had while we were dating. The funny thing is, I had a crush on a boy in my class at the exact same time. I told him about my crush while it was still in action. He says he wanted to tell me at that moment of his crush but couldn't get the guts to do so.

My problem with this story is it flip-flops. Sometimes he had a crush on her, sometimes he felt nothing and only noticed her because she looked like me. My opinion is, he had a crush on her, so what!

He will also tell me occasionally of girls he sees who wear clothing that reminds him of me. He even told me once that he thought a friend of mine was cute, until she laughed then he thought her face scrunched up weird when she laughed.

He tells me very often that he doesn't find anyone else attractive. He says now he is too busy with school and work to think of women, and that he is so satisfied with me that he just naturally doesn't look for anything more. He says he no longer looks at porn, just because he doesn't want to be that kind of man. He says that he doesn't know if he will NEVER find another women attractive, or be tempted, or look at porn again, but he says that if that time comes he will be honest.

 

I know he should go into therapy for the many things he has been through. I want someone to help him feel better about himself because I really think he's still insecure about all of the mistakes he's made. Hearing now his defense, do you think he is a truthful husband, or am I being played? Are these things people often say with they are liars? Do liars just see lying like a fun game of chess, battle of the wits and I'm a total f*ing moron?

[JamesM]

Yes, you may show my post to him if it helps.

 

I know that therapy will help because it will give him a chance to tell everything to a professional who has heard stories like his. And I have been to therapy myself years ago, and it was helpful to "empty" myself and have someone affirm my thoughts.

 

My concern is that he denies, denies, denies. This will be an issue until he can confront why he does it. As for porn, I would say that it will be an issue down the road. While you don't mind him telling you, he feels ashamed, which means he will keep denying it. This probably has all of its roots in his past.

 

You are a special person and he must realize this. If only for you sake and his marriage, then he must pursue therapy. It is difficult at first to spill your guts, but then it becomes a relief.

[JamesM]

Hearing now his defense, do you think he is a truthful husband, or am I being played? Are these things people often say with they are liars? Do liars just see lying like a fun game of chess, battle of the wits and I'm a total f*ing moron?

 

He is being as truthful as he needs to be. The question is..will he keep being truthful, or only be truthful when he is caught? Lying can be a defense mechanism. This may be a result of the things from his past. He does not seem like it is a battle of wits or that he thinks yo are a moron. I think his lies have only been a way to protect himself from being hurt and from revealing himself completely to you. He may think that "If she really knew everything about me, then she wouldn't love me."

 

If he does not get therapy, then you may find it helpful. I don't know of your past, but if you go, then it may help you understand all of this.

 

Extreme kudos to you for dealing with this! He is one lucky man to have you.

[iliveinabox]

It is difficult at first to spill your guts, but then it becomes a relief.

 

He has told me SO much, and seems to remain honest. He's going to say he already has spilled his guts. My problem is, is it possible for a man to really not think anything sexual about anyone other than their wife? He doesn't claim he never will be tempted, but from what I have read that's all guys ever think about while looking at a women.

(Genuinely not trying to stereotype, or come off sexist against men!)

[iliveinabox]

I see what you mean, I will talk to him again if he's not too stressed from work today. I just really hope he knows I love him and want this for the long run.

[JamesM]

My problem is, is it possible for a man to really not think anything sexual about anyone other than their wife?

 

Never? I can't say that, but honestly, it is rare. I may think a thought or two, but to actually construct a fantasy? Do I imagine other women in bed with me?No. DO I look at a woman and consider her sexy? Yes, but really not that often.

 

He may have a thought or two when he looks at a woman, but in his mind since he isn't undressing her in his mind, then no, he really isn't.

 

Let it go until he shows otherwise.

[iliveinabox]

So you're saying that it truly is just a stereotype? That "men want all women to just spred their legs so the guy can just spray their seman everywhere"-(Louie CK) That's just a lie?

So, if I'm getting you straight, a happily taken man will occasionally, (but rarely), look at another women, but just simply note that she's sexy and move on? HA, I guess I am a fool for stereotyping you poor men! xD I think the same way about attractive men occasionally, and I'm a women! I guess we are all just human.

 

Thanks, if I'm reading you right. He is probably being truthful, if he did briefly think another women was attractive, he probably would feel ashamed for thinking so and block it out of his memory. Probably doesn't even realize he thinks those things on rare occasions. That's okay, he needs therapy, maybe then he can understand himself better.

[ThatJustHappened]

So you're saying that it truly is just a stereotype? That "men want all women to just spred their legs so the guy can just spray their seman everywhere"-(Louie CK) That's just a lie?

So, if I'm getting you straight, a happily taken man will occasionally, (but rarely), look at another women, but just simply note that she's sexy and move on? HA, I guess I am a fool for stereotyping you poor men! xD I think the same way about attractive men occasionally, and I'm a women! I guess we are all just human.

 

Thanks, if I'm reading you right. He is probably being truthful, if he did briefly think another women was attractive, he probably would feel ashamed for thinking so and block it out of his memory. Probably doesn't even realize he thinks those things on rare occasions. That's okay, he needs therapy, maybe then he can understand himself better.

 

That's what I've been saying! I haven't been trying to insult him by saying that. There's no need for him to be so ashamed of watching porn, or of looking at other women..and you're not the one who's making him feel that way. It's something inside of him that's making him feel ashamed of himself..probably because he comes from a long line of cheaters and he's scared of falling into that trap himself. That's why he needs therapy. So he can stop feeling ashamed of himself and therefore stop lying to you.

[iliveinabox]

Thanks ThatJustHappened. I think you hit the nail on the head, he is terribly afraid of becoming his father. He has said on multiple occasions that he would do almost anything before cheating, not just for me but for himself.

Sometimes I wonder if we're an ill combination, I'm desperately afraid of being lied to and cheated on, and he's desperately afraid of cheating! My dad always gave me an analogy when it came to things like this, "If you're driving and you keep looking off the road saying, 'don't go in the ditch, don't go in the ditch!' you'll drive into the ditch cause you can't keep your eyes on the road!"

[ThatJustHappened]

Thanks ThatJustHappened. I think you hit the nail on the head, he is terribly afraid of becoming his father. He has said on multiple occasions that he would do almost anything before cheating, not just for me but for himself.

Sometimes I wonder if we're an ill combination, I'm desperately afraid of being lied to and cheated on, and he's desperately afraid of cheating! My dad always gave me an analogy when it came to things like this, "If you're driving and you keep looking off the road saying, 'don't go in the ditch, don't go in the ditch!' you'll drive into the ditch cause you can't keep your eyes on the road!"

 

I don't really think that analogy applies here..that would be more reflexive than anything else. Driving into a ditch would happen in the moment. If he wants to stop himself from cheating, he can..it's not like he's going to slip and fall into another woman. He sounds like he has the right idea, just the wrong methods.

 

Please believe me..therapy WILL help. He really and truly should try it. He needs your support too, and it sounds like you're more than willing to give that to him. You two seem like a great couple.

[todreaminblue]

Hello everyone, this is my first post and first time here - so go easy on me! :-)

 

I recently married my best friend of many years.

Before the marriage I was often scared that something was off and even tried to call off the wedding a few times but he would always talk me down, even if he had to call off work to do so.

He always claimed he never looked at porn which I thought was totally outrageous. He's a computer engineer and has enlightened me on all sorts of ways of hiding documents and actions on the internet and desktop.

I always tried to assure him that it's okay to be tempted, to look at porn, and that sex is just biological but he would still insist that he was "different". I also told him it's okay to have crushes or to notice attractive people, since that's just natural. I always have been respectful to him and would tell him anytime I found another man attractive or had a crush. (Which happens embarrassingly often.) As a result he loved it, and he tells me he's so lucky to have a women he can trust.

Of course I tell him I want the same honesty, but he insists that he doesn't "check out" other women anymore. He insists that he never even thinks of any sort of sex outside of me.

 

I know in my heart that no one can be that perfect, I know he's not a robot. So a few days after the wedding (we didn't have enough money for a real honeymoon since we spent our honeymoon money on a family emergency.) We were in our new apartment and he got up to go to the bathroom. I guess I got bored or something, so I got up to see what he's up to (I know it sounds weird, but married people do weird things sometimes.) when I walked in he was on his laptop and I could see a naked women in the reflection of the mirror. I got a smirk to just lightly tease him and said, "Whatcha doin'?". He then closed out of the window and said, "Oh nothing, just on slick deals.."

Of course I got mad and confused, so I asked why he would lie and I told him what I had seen. After many times of him trying to insist I was wrong, he finally told me he was "watching a documentary" and felt uncomfortable because there was a scene with a nude women........

I then got mad for him to lie to me. So I packed some clothing and began to head off to a hotel. He started crying uncontrollably pleading for me to not leave. I told him the only way for me to stay is if I can have a marriage of full honesty.

So he sat me down and over the course of a few hours he literally told me everything he has ever felt guilty of since he was a child! He told me of all the porn, the lies, that once his father raped his mother and she cried for my husband to save her but he got scared and acted like he couldn't hear her. He told me that while we were engaged he would go into the bathrooms at work and jerk off to porn on his phone. He told me things I wish I had never heard, things I would never mention to anyone (not even you anonymous strangers) because I wish I never new myself, and I have now forgiven him entirely.

After that, for about a week or so he would randomly wake me up or interrupt dinner to tell me some regret he forgot to mention. Even if it was something incredibly mundane. He told me that he felt like a new man and he could have a second chance to really be an honest man, to really be the man he always pretended to be.

 

My problem is he STILL insists that he never looks at other women, he never thinks of sex with anyone but me, and that he never has a crush on anyone else (during the relationship, of course). I can forgive almost anything, but I struggle to forgive a lie because I never know when I liar stops and the truth begins!

 

 

I look at men when i am in a relationship i might think they are cute or have a nice smile as far as sex goes i dont think of men in that way unless i know them and an attraction develops because they become a friend first.......i have never believed in love at first sight never......i havent developed an attraction for a guy this way...in saying that.....i recently developed an attraction to guy that i dont know all that well....i know he is kind he has a nice smile he is compassionate caring, honest and he believes in the same things i do.....just something he said and i looked at him and i felt different....don't even remember what it was....it soon developed rather quickly actually into a physical attraction....i felt something and it threw me i dotn normally fall fro a guy physically until later....god only knows why i did...if i was in a relationship i am honest with what i feel and doubt really that i would be attracted to other men...i have been with enough men to know what i want and dont actively seek out men just to have sex...sex is over rated....making love is phenomenal in a committed relationship its what i desire....so even though i coudl go out and get sex when i am toey i choose not to....adn i am not in a relationship....

 

 

you have to trust your partner until proven guilty if you don't then its no use being in a relationship that is doomed to fail....trust is key...get some counseling if you need to ....give your partner the benefit of the doubt until it is glaringly obvious he is lying....don't accuse its just as damaging as the lie..discussion.plus...compromise.....dont compromise what your heart tells you not too...you have to not second guess everything he says is truth or lie....take it on face value.........and i wish you the best...deb

[iliveinabox]

You guys have all been great! Thanks for all of this advice. It's nice to have some unbiased outsiders help me out. I almost feel like you strangers have become my friends! (I need to get out more xD) Many things you have said have really put me at ease, now I feel like I'm ready for tackle the deeper problems.

So yeah, cheers! Wish us luck! :-)