Can a 27 year old compete with a 21 year old girl?

[123321]

That must be new; I don't know a single 18-y-o girl who solely goes after men twice her age and claims that all the men close to her age are completely unattractive and too young for her, simply because she wants a serious relationship.

 

It's not new, I don't think, and it's not that they find young guys unattractive, depending on how you define it. They often like the way guys 20-40 look just fine, but they want something that a 20 year old guy is likely to promise but less likely to live up to.

 

 

You're right that it would make no difference, though, and I hope any who do contemplate the prospect realize that.

 

Oh,it absolutely makes a difference they see it happen and act on the experiences of others, but nothing in life is 100%% and sometimes the whole "Sally just married her older guy" observation makes them give themselves up to a cad. Life I guess.

 

Others get sweet talked by a nice looking young guy and dumped after the act. Some try for someone their own age or just want to have fun.

 

 

At any rate, while I can certainly understand personal preference, I have serious doubts about the emotional health of someone who perpetually has degrading things to say about the opposite gender of their own age.

 

Not to be confusing factual with pointlessly derogatory.

 

 

It reflects either poor self-esteem and denial, or delusionary narcissism. This goes for 18-y-o women as well as 40-yo men.

 

Or 18 yo guys and 49 yo women. Or any other age I guess.

[Els]

What world do you live in that an 18 year old is keeping her relationship such a closely guarded secret?

 

....

 

Let me spell things out for you.

 

If other people's relationships 'aren't my business', other people's opinions that they did not direct to you 'aren't your business'. In other words, stop calling the tree black, pot.

[Els]

It's not new, I don't think, and it's not that they find young guys unattractive, depending on how you define it. They often like the way guys 20-40 look just fine, but they want something that a 20 year old guy is likely to promise but less likely to live up to.

 

 

 

 

Oh,it absolutely makes a difference they see it happen and act on the experiences of others, but nothing in life is 100%% and sometimes the whole "Sally just married her older guy" observation makes them give themselves up to a cad. Life I guess.

 

Others get sweet talked by a nice looking young guy and dumped after the act. Some try for someone their own age or just want to have fun.

 

 

 

 

Not to be confusing factual with pointlessly derogatory.

 

 

 

 

Or 18 yo guys and 49 yo women. Or any other age I guess.

 

I'm not really sure what your point is, to be honest. Mine was that emotionally healthy people don't have a whole list of reasons why everyone of the opposite gender who is remotely close to their age is completely undateable, while considering themselves completely exempt from those reasons. I'm a (comparatively) younger woman myself, and even though I'd be open to a wide range of ages if I was single, if I smelled even a whiff of such a mindset from a man, I'd be completely gone. A 40-yo man who is completely unable to accept the biological aging process of fellow 40-yo women is equally unlikely to be able to accept the biological aging process of me at 40 when he's 60. No good can possibly come out of such a relationship.

[123321]

I'm not really sure what your point is, to be honest. Mine was that emotionally healthy people don't have a whole list of reasons why everyone of the opposite gender who is remotely close to their age is completely undateable, while considering themselves completely exempt from those reasons.

 

I tend to agree with the things you stated but obviously I can't know the thought processes behind them. Taking me as an example, I have had relationships with women from 16 (legal, and I was close to that age, sad that I have to add a disclaimer) to over 50 and from 16 years older to 25 years younger.

 

I don't find older women "undateable" out of hand.

 

Having said that, I date what I find attractive and for the most part I find women in their 20s to be the hottest. I could and have dated older, but why would I do that? If I'm looking for a date, I try to date someone attractive. If she's 45, OK, if she's 22, OK also. It's just seems from observation that the 22s are more likely to be hot than the 45s, as life would have it.

 

DY loves to hate this, and tries to do what you did and make it about "later in the relationship" but at least in my case, that's a false assertion. Initial attraction fades no matter what, and well before a 20 year old turns 40, it's the other things that are present or absent that keep people together.

[Els]

I tend to agree with the things you stated but obviously I can't know the thought processes behind them. Taking me as an example, I have had relationships with women from 16 (legal, and I was close to that age, sad that I have to add a disclaimer) to over 50 and from 16 years older to 25 years younger.

 

I don't find older women "undateable" out of hand.

 

Having said that, I date what I find attractive and for the most part I find women in their 20s to be the hottest. I could and have dated older, but why would I do that? If I'm looking for a date, I try to date someone attractive. If she's 45, OK, if she's 22, OK also. It's just seems from observation that the 22s are more likely to be hot than the 45s, as life would have it.

 

Sounds fine to me.

 

DY loves to hate this, and tries to do what you did and make it about "later in the relationship" but at least in my case, that's a false assertion. Initial attraction fades no matter what, and well before a 20 year old turns 40, it's the other things that are present or absent that keep people together.

 

In your case, yes, but in the case of the people I described in my previous post, no.

[123321]

Sounds fine to me.

 

 

 

In your case, yes, but in the case of the people I described in my previous post, no.

 

Possibly true however if someone is in it for the long haul I don't think age is that much a factor, with one exception. If they are in it and the sort of person to go the distance, they will do their best, if they are not of that mind, not.

[LittlePrince]

Why choose when you can have both?

[123321]

Women over 35 or so often don't expect a call back if you are under 25, but if you are 40 and she's 40, you are expected to follow up. For a young guy, dating older has upsides, but for older guys those upsides diminish and the playing field goes a lot flatter.

[Quiet Storm]

A 40-yo man who is completely unable to accept the biological aging process of fellow 40-yo women is equally unlikely to be able to accept the biological aging process of me at 40 when he's 60.

 

I don't understand this.

 

I don't think that because some men don't find women their own age the most attractive, it means that they don't accept the aging process. They just don't find older women attractive. It will shrink their dating pool, and they will have to face that consequence. He may have to deal with immaturity and generational differences. It's not fair to older women who feel judged, but why would they want a man that's not genuinely attracted to them anyway?

 

There are no clear "rules of attraction". Women and men don't have to be attracted to someone of the same age, race, religion, etc. That doesn't mean there is something psychologically wrong with them.

 

I believe that men need to be initially physically attracted to their woman, but this doesn't mean they will trade her in or wish for a younger wife as she ages. I think that it often works like this and it applies whether it is two 20 years olds or an older man/younger woman:

 

1) Man (same age or older) meets a woman and is physically attracted to her. He pursues her for a relationship.

2) Man gets to know the woman and falls in love with her personality and nature.

3) Man decides he wants to spend his life with this woman and decides to commit to her.

4) They live side by side and the years go by,they learn about each other, love together, struggle together, may have kids together, grieve loved ones together, laugh together, share experiences, etc. They form a history. Their own little chapter book.

5) They age. They sag and get wrinkled. Although the man may not see her as "hot & sexy" anymore, he loves her. He respects her. He appreciates what she has contributed to his life and their family. He loves their history, their story and their life together. He cherishes her. The fact that she has "aged" doesn't diminish that.

 

So I think that men need to be INITIALLY attracted to their woman, but most do accept that she ages and if they have a loving emotional connection, will not judge her looks or devalue her because she aged.

 

Men meeting new women will go for those that they are physcially attracted to, and that attraction can spark an emotional connection that can be sustained, regardless of physical attraction, because the relationship continuously evolves. Even when she's 70, the husband will have that memory/ visual of her when she was younger, and still value her.

 

I think as long as a man finds his woman sexually attractive when he first meets her, early in the relationship, this will help keep the spark alive through many different changes in life, including aging. If a man is not intitially attracted to his woman in the early stages, I think it sometimes lowers the value he places on the relationship. He may feel that he settled, and may not be prompted to nurture the emotional connection that is sustainable regardless of looks or age. I don't believe this applies to all men, though.

 

Generally, I think it's the intital physical attraction that interests him, it's her personality prompts him to commit, and it's the evolving emotional connection & shared history that keeps him there.

 

I understand that this is not fair. Not arguing that. Women should be judged on their personality, merits, achievements and nature. There is so much more to us than our appearance. I agree that it really sucks that looks are so important to men.

 

I think that there are many men that do genuinely find older women attractive. There are men that place value on qualities besides looks. They may be harder to find but they are out there.

[123321]

I think as long as a man finds his woman sexually attractive when he first meets her, early in the relationship, this will help keep the spark alive through many different changes in life, including aging. If a man is not intitially attracted to his woman in the early stages, I think it sometimes lowers the value he places on the relationship. He may feel that he settled, and may not be prompted to nurture the emotional connection that is sustainable regardless of looks or age.

 

That seems really insightful to me.

[Zeitgeist]

can a 27 year old still be attractive enough to compete for the same men as a 21 year old?

 

The answer to that question is 'yes'.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I wasn't referring to a scale but the ages in the thread title.

 

The scale has existed since at least the 70's with Bo Derek starring in 10.

 

Maybe the scale thing did exist back then but I hear much more of it now than/then ever (That's right 123..you will never know if I am using it right or not. Mahhhhahahahah.)

[123321]

Maybe the scale thing did exist back then but I hear much more of it now than/then ever (That's right 123..you will never know if I am using it right or not. Mahhhhahahahah.)

 

I'd threaten to spank you but you might be the sort of girl who likes that.

 

QS really summed up my feelings on age as a relationship progresses better than I could.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

D, if you look in post #95 I was actually helpful, I decided last night to try a different tack. Perhaps I should have announced that. Not gentle, but helpful.

 

We all make a misteak hear or their butt if its consistant its distrecting.

 

And here you are still making jokes. You asked me both publically and privately not to be "evil" about something. Yet how have you treated me? Do you realize asking someone to not be "evil" aout someone when all you done is put them down is messed up?

 

It's only distracting because you've made it distracting. Debates and discussions could have gone on just fine without your your comments. If you find my comments that annoying and distracting, you are free to not read them. You do realize that correct? Or do you not posses the will power to not read posts from posters you find distracting?

 

 

As I said, I regret returning unkindness with unkindness, particularly since I took it and multiplied it before returning it. I am fairly sure you don't see anything you ever say as unkind so let's just go with "I regret anything non-helpful I said in correcting your grammar" and leave it at that.

 

Where have I been unkind to you? If you can show me what I've said to you that's been unkind, I will know for the future to pay attention to myself. So please point out where I was unkind to you. I am open to hearing it because I don't enjoy being unkind and I also know I am not perfect. I am sure you can show me where I was unkind since your so apt and berating and judging me everytime my posts aren't perfectly typed. Since you are so keenly detailed, showing me where I was unkind to you shouldn't be a problem right?

 

By the way, if I was unkind to you, wouldn't it make sense to discuss where I was unkind to you instead of picking on things that have nothing to do with the real problem?

 

But lets be hoenst 123, this isn't the first time you've been rude to me. And you weren't rude to me everytime because I said something disparging to you.

 

I find your comment about regreeting anything that wasn't "non-helpful" disingenuous to what you previously admitted to was "unkindness". You asked something of me publically and privately you couldn't deliver on yourself. You weren't simply "non-helpful" and you know it. But for some reason you refuse to admit to and own your unkindness and your behavior. And you refuse to be open about where I was rude to you yet you can go on at length about my spelling and grammar. Which leads me to believe that i wasn't actually unkind to you at all. But maybe I was. So show me where I was unkind to you. Surely this shouldn't be difficult for you to do right?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

When I was younger I dated older men. The man I am with now is younger than me. All my friends, male and female made fun of me for it when I dated older guys. I mean, I still dated who I wanted but they all didn’t get why I was dating older guys. I had some Daddy issues and I wanted some attention and older men spend money on you. But when the older guys I dated wanted to take it the next level, I didn’t.

 

I made a friend at work who dated and married someone older than her. They have since divorced and she is re-married to a Marine that is a year younger than her self. She is so much more happier than she ever was with her ex, her words - not mine. Her ex is 50 years old, works at home-depot and tells her about how he is in-love with a 21 year old girl from Russia....well we all know what that is about.

[irin]

Guys don't look across a room and see how attractive your life experience is. Trust me on this one.

 

i dont want those type of guys!

[123321]

And here you are still making jokes. You asked me both publically and privately not to be "evil" about something.

 

I asked you to please not post publicly a picture of my ex-GF that you asked for, for reasons I think I know but am not completely sure about. Correcting someones grammar is arguably mildly insulting, posting images of a third party publicly out of spite would be actual evil.

 

Feel free to correct any consistent grammar mistakes I make by the way, I love to learn from and correct my mistakes. For the record, I don't pick on peoples typos or occasional spelling errors, people can't help that it's just being human.

 

Persistent errors though are generally fixable and pointing them out is a service to everyone.

 

 

It's only distracting because you've made it distracting. Debates and discussions could have gone on just fine without your your comments.

 

No, it's distracting because words mean things. If I read something and there are misused words there I'm OK, unless it changes the meaning dramatically, in which case I read it and then 2 sentences later it just doesn't fit the context and I have to go the f*ck back and figure out "OK, so what did she mean there?" for myself.

 

This and the huge volume of repeated material is why I now skim most of your posts.

 

 

If you find my comments that annoying and distracting, you are free to not read them.

 

See note on skimming above.

 

 

Where have I been unkind to you? If you can show me what I've said to you that's been unkind, I will know for the future to pay attention to myself.

 

One case I find offensive is when you (often) talk about men who for instance have an age preference you then (almost always) have to follow it up with a comment about how this sort of man doesn't really like women. That's insulting, and when you refer to me in the same post, it's particularly insulting. I love women, I've never been with a woman I didn't love, and I love the woman I'm with now. How dare you say that simply because I tend to find younger women (for instance) more attractive in general that I can't really love women, or by extension, the woman I'm with?

 

If you like I can be real sensitive about pointing out when you are offensive or I could just continue to try and ignore it.

[Els]

I don't understand this.

 

I don't think that because some men don't find women their own age the most attractive, it means that they don't accept the aging process. They just don't find older women attractive. It will shrink their dating pool, and they will have to face that consequence. He may have to deal with immaturity and generational differences. It's not fair to older women who feel judged, but why would they want a man that's not genuinely attracted to them anyway?

 

There are no clear "rules of attraction". Women and men don't have to be attracted to someone of the same age, race, religion, etc. That doesn't mean there is something psychologically wrong with them.

 

I believe that men need to be initially physically attracted to their woman, but this doesn't mean they will trade her in or wish for a younger wife as she ages. I think that it often works like this and it applies whether it is two 20 years olds or an older man/younger woman:

 

1) Man (same age or older) meets a woman and is physically attracted to her. He pursues her for a relationship.

2) Man gets to know the woman and falls in love with her personality and nature.

3) Man decides he wants to spend his life with this woman and decides to commit to her.

4) They live side by side and the years go by,they learn about each other, love together, struggle together, may have kids together, grieve loved ones together, laugh together, share experiences, etc. They form a history. Their own little chapter book.

5) They age. They sag and get wrinkled. Although the man may not see her as "hot & sexy" anymore, he loves her. He respects her. He appreciates what she has contributed to his life and their family. He loves their history, their story and their life together. He cherishes her. The fact that she has "aged" doesn't diminish that.

 

So I think that men need to be INITIALLY attracted to their woman, but most do accept that she ages and if they have a loving emotional connection, will not judge her looks or devalue her because she aged.

 

Men meeting new women will go for those that they are physcially attracted to, and that attraction can spark an emotional connection that can be sustained, regardless of physical attraction, because the relationship continuously evolves. Even when she's 70, the husband will have that memory/ visual of her when she was younger, and still value her.

 

I think as long as a man finds his woman sexually attractive when he first meets her, early in the relationship, this will help keep the spark alive through many different changes in life, including aging. If a man is not intitially attracted to his woman in the early stages, I think it sometimes lowers the value he places on the relationship. He may feel that he settled, and may not be prompted to nurture the emotional connection that is sustainable regardless of looks or age. I don't believe this applies to all men, though.

 

Generally, I think it's the intital physical attraction that interests him, it's her personality prompts him to commit, and it's the evolving emotional connection & shared history that keeps him there.

 

QS, I think we're talking about two entirely different types of men here. The sort of man you're talking about is like 123, who doesn't have an arbitrary blanket dislike of all women of a particular age, and doesn't specifically try to go 'as young as he can manage'. He is open to dating anyone whom he is attracted to, and if many of those are younger, so be it. I think that's fairly normal, and analogous to, say, a female college student who is attracted to successful men. So if 123 meets a 40-yo whom he finds attractive, he may date her, and if the student girl meets a 20-yo who already has his own startup company, she may date him. I don't see anything emotionally unhealthy about that.

 

The sort of man I am talking about is like, well, yongyong, for lack of a better example. A whole list of disparaging comments towards women of his own age, constantly trying to date as young as he can manage, completely closed to any possibility of pursuing a relationship with anyone remotely close to his age. Such men are not just seeking physical attraction - they are literally obsessed with age and appearance, nothing else matters. With such men, there IS not going to be an emotional connection, which is what your post is based upon. They are not interested in any such thing with women; they only desire the hottest thing they can get at any point in time. These men are men whom any woman desiring a LTR should avoid.

 

I understand that this is not fair. Not arguing that. Women should be judged on their personality, merits, achievements and nature. There is so much more to us than our appearance. I agree that it really sucks that looks are so important to men.

 

I think that there are many men that do genuinely find older women attractive. There are men that place value on qualities besides looks. They may be harder to find but they are out there.

 

I completely agree with this. As I've said before, I think the age-obsessed man is largely a LS phenomenon. I think there are absolutely men who place value on qualities other than looks. Heck, I've found a few of them myself.

[123321]

i dont want those type of guys!

 

You could date the blind exclusively I guess. Men are initially attracted to what they see, it's so nearly universal it's not worth even noting the exceptions.

[123321]

.... tells her about how he is in-love with a 21 year old girl from Russia....well we all know what that is about.

 

I was in love with a young Russian girl once, and I have to say I find your comment highly offensive and downright insulting.

[GorillaTheater]

I was in love with a young Russian girl once, and I have to say I find your comment highly offensive and downright insulting.

 

As much as it pains me to agree with DY on anything, she may have a point in that one specific instance.

 

Though perhaps that's just me buying into a stereotype, too.

[123321]

As much as it pains me to agree with DY on anything, she may have a point in that one specific instance. .

 

What is different about falling in love with a 21 year old woman from Russia or a 35 year old woman from Ireland? For me they are both the same, in fact the Russian woman was much easier to understand than the Irish women I've talked to. The Russian gal was also better educated and played the piano better.

[123321]

Though perhaps that's just me buying into a stereotype, too.

 

If she wants to mock a specific person for a specific act then fine, but casting mass aspersions like that just hurts us all, man. I think I'm gonna find a corner and cry for a bit.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

The Russian girl he was talking to has been asking him for money to send to her so she can come see him. More money then what would require her to get a ticket for. 50 year old man working at Home-Depot isn't going to get too much interested from a 21 year old girl. Not sure why that's offensive to point out. it's simply true. Or is it that we have to attach more value to men than to women where we talk about how women love men no matter age, looks or economic standing but we get to talk all day long about how even men that are in long term relatoinships have to think about their partners when they were younger just to be excited by them still.

[petitegirl7]

age is nothing,.the most important is love