Can a 27 year old compete with a 21 year old girl?

[GorillaTheater]

What is different about falling in love with a 21 year old woman from Russia or a 35 year old woman from Ireland? For me they are both the same, in fact the Russian woman was much easier to understand than the Irish women I've talked to. The Russian gal was also better educated and played the piano better.

 

Perhaps it's the fact that I'm 50 and have kids older than 21. It's tough for me to see the attraction or the likelihood of a happy ending. Depending on how you define "happy ending".

[angie2443]

I'm not really sure what your point is, to be honest. Mine was that emotionally healthy people don't have a whole list of reasons why everyone of the opposite gender who is remotely close to their age is completely undateable, while considering themselves completely exempt from those reasons. I'm a (comparatively) younger woman myself, and even though I'd be open to a wide range of ages if I was single, if I smelled even a whiff of such a mindset from a man, I'd be completely gone. A 40-yo man who is completely unable to accept the biological aging process of fellow 40-yo women is equally unlikely to be able to accept the biological aging process of me at 40 when he's 60. No good can possibly come out of such a relationship.

 

In my experience in dating much older men when I was young, I learned that much older men who go after or prefer much younger women, value what's on the outside the most. These men, again in my experience, do not develope the type of love in which they can watch their partner age and still love them as much as they did when their partner was young and fresh. They simply value youth over other things when it comes to partner selection. I'm thankful that I didn't end up with one of these much older men. I've seen many of them view women as lower and not worth much beyond the physical attractiveness the women can bring to the table.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

If she wants to mock a specific person for a specific act then fine, but casting mass aspersions like that just hurts us all, man. I think I'm gonna find a corner and cry for a bit.

 

I feel hurt too when men talk about how much better women are when they are younger. Or how men want younger women more than women their own age. Or how when a man is in a long term relationship, the only way he can keep himselfi nterested in his partner is remebering when she was young. But you don't care about that. You don't care how it feels as a woman to be told how worthless you are compared to men for your age. You want to be able to go on all day long about all the young hot women you date yet you are hurt that I don't want to be with men, or think men that judge women on age are good mates that really respect women? Guess what, I don't think women that specifically focus on a man's income level or job are all that good of mates either that realy love that man.

 

But I guess on top of this thread basically talking about how worthless women are for aging (A popular and repeated messages around here), and how men are allowed to treat us like we matter less then them for aging, and how it's suppose to keep us warm at night to know that are male partners have to think about us when we were younger or how are great sense of humors or kindness is suppose to keep us warm while he is looking at porn of 20 year olds... I guess all that's okay.

 

I really think that a lot of men simply think they are more worthwhile than women. And it comes out everytime the conversation turns to women's age vs men. It seems like a lot of men think they are simply better. But as a woman, you are suppose to be comforted with the idea that he is with you for oyur personality even as he drools over 20 year olds or that he is picturing you when you were young. Well sorry but that doesn't seem like such great things to me. Those don't exactly seem like positives and they don't seem that healthy.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

123321

I asked you to please not post publicly a picture of my ex-GF that you asked for, for reasons I think I know but am not completely sure about. Correcting someones grammar is arguably mildly insulting, posting images of a third party publicly out of spite would be actual evil.

 

Yes, you asked me to not post pictures of your ex-gf. I haven't and won't. You also asked me not to be "evil" about her appreance. And then you made a comment about how other people made negative comments about her.

 

You didn't just "correct" my grammar. You were on a war path so don't downgrade the behavior you actively participated in.

 

 

Feel free to correct any consistent grammar mistakes I make by the way, I love to learn from and correct my mistakes. For the record, I don't pick on peoples typos or occasional spelling errors, people can't help that it's just being human.

 

Persistent errors though are generally fixable and pointing them out is a service to everyone.

 

Oh please stop acting like you were trying to do a service for the board. I will continue to post as I want, I don't want your help. If you don't like the way I post, repeat mistakes or not, Don't read it. You should be able to exercise that kind of self control right?

 

 

No, it's distracting because words mean things. If I read something and there are misused words there I'm OK, unless it changes the meaning dramatically, in which case I read it and then 2 sentences later it just doesn't fit the context and I have to go the f*ck back and figure out "OK, so what did she mean there?" for myself.

 

Then don't read my posts. Problem solved.

 

This and the huge volume of repeated material is why I now skim most of your posts.

 

So if you skim my posts, anything you've said about my posts is pretty much inaccurate. If you only skim them, then you don't really know what you are talking about inregards to them. You have half the story, if that, at best.

 

 

 

O

ne case I find offensive is when you (often) talk about men who for instance have an age preference you then (almost always) have to follow it up with a comment about how this sort of man doesn't really like women

.

 

That's what I think. I think men that attach more judgement on women for their age, then () their own don't really even like women very much. I think men that are disparging to women based on their age, or consistantly speak of how much better younger women are, don't even like those younger women very much.

 

You talk all the time about how you like younger women more! Why is that okay but what I have to say isn't? Why is it okay for the men around here to talk about how much more beautiful and wonderful and womanly younger women are but it's suppose to keep women warm at night to know he realy wants 21 year olds but sticks by you because hey, you're so funny. That doesn't sound that wonderful to me.

[GorillaTheater]

If she wants to mock a specific person for a specific act then fine, but casting mass aspersions like that just hurts us all, man. I think I'm gonna find a corner and cry for a bit.

 

But I guess on top of this thread basically talking about how worthless women are for aging (A popular and repeated messages around here), and how men are allowed to treat us like we matter less then them for aging, and how it's suppose to keep us warm at night to know that are male partners have to think about us when we were younger or how are great sense of humors or kindness is suppose to keep us warm while he is looking at porn of 20 year olds... I guess all that's okay.

 

I really think that a lot of men simply think they are more worthwhile than women. And it comes out everytime the conversation turns to women's age vs men. It seems like a lot of men think they are simply better. But as a woman, you are suppose to be comforted with the idea that he is with you for oyur personality even as he drools over 20 year olds or that he is picturing you when you were young. Well sorry but that doesn't seem like such great things to me. Those don't exactly seem like positives and they don't seem that healthy.

 

Can't argue that point at all, 123. This is where the skimming comes in, right?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Oh and don't worry, I am sure someone will say something mean or sarcastic to me or tell me I am this and that. Ontop of telling women how worthless they are based on age and looks, lets also call women "insecure" for worrying about these things and not exactly being comforted by the idea that a man will have to picture you when you were younger or just has to masturbate to 21 year olds because your getting older.

 

It's okay to tell women that they are this or that but it's not okay in this world to be bothered by it without someone saying "you're jsut insecure". It's okay for men to talk endlessly about how much better younger women are but godforbid you find that pretty crappy and you're called "insecure". LOL. It's such a joke.

 

So lets see, as a woman you have to be confident, secure and smile and think men are great when they repeatedly tell your worth is in your age and you aren't suppose to be bothered by it because hey, men are men and what men want is only right and if that's how men see you, too bad.

 

Yet another way of reassuring women they don't matter as much in this world than men do.

[123321]

The Russian girl he was talking to has been asking him for money to send to her so she can come see him. More money then what would require her to get a ticket for.

 

Details you left out when you made your heart-crushing blanket statement.

 

 

50 year old man working at Home-Depot isn't going to get too much interested from a 21 year old girl. Not sure why that's offensive to point out. it's simply true.

 

So if it's true then it's OK to be offensive, or if it's true then it's wrong to be offended? I'd like to know how this works.

 

 

Or is it that we have to attach more value to men than to women where we talk about how women love men no matter age, looks or economic standing but we get to talk all day long about how even men that are in long term relatoinships have to think about their partners when they were younger just to be excited by them still.

 

Congrats! You just turned something beautiful into something ugly:

 

Sometimes he finds it amazing

That all of his children are wed

When their mother is still turning eighteen

And turning his head

She still turns his head

 

And the moon is still over her shoulder

And the stars are still falling above

And she never gets one minute older

And he is still falling in love

 

- Michel Johnson, "The Moon is Still Over Her Shoulder"

[angie2443]

I feel hurt too when men talk about how much better women are when they are younger. Or how men want younger women more than women their own age. Or how when a man is in a long term relationship, the only way he can keep himselfi nterested in his partner is remebering when she was young. But you don't care about that. You don't care how it feels as a woman to be told how worthless you are compared to men for your age. You want to be able to go on all day long about all the young hot women you date yet you are hurt that I don't want to be with men, or think men that judge women on age are good mates that really respect women? Guess what, I don't think women that specifically focus on a man's income level or job are all that good of mates either that realy love that man.

 

But I guess on top of this thread basically talking about how worthless women are for aging (A popular and repeated messages around here), and how men are allowed to treat us like we matter less then them for aging, and how it's suppose to keep us warm at night to know that are male partners have to think about us when we were younger or how are great sense of humors or kindness is suppose to keep us warm while he is looking at porn of 20 year olds... I guess all that's okay.

 

I really think that a lot of men simply think they are more worthwhile than women. And it comes out everytime the conversation turns to women's age vs men. It seems like a lot of men think they are simply better. But as a woman, you are suppose to be comforted with the idea that he is with you for oyur personality even as he drools over 20 year olds or that he is picturing you when you were young. Well sorry but that doesn't seem like such great things to me. Those don't exactly seem like positives and they don't seem that healthy.

 

I'm sure you know by now that these types of threads attract men who want women to know that there value lies mostly in their youth. I wouldn't get upset at what certain posters here say. I feel bad for the women, young or their age, who dated them.

[123321]

I wouldn't get upset at what certain posters here say. I feel bad for the women, young or their age, who dated them.

 

See, that's just mean. It hurts real people when you say things like that.

[xxoo]

The age stuff is silly. People of all ages fall in love. Just last month, I heard of a pair of 70 year olds marrying.

 

Some men get caught up in preferring young women forever. These men are best avoided.

 

Most men's attraction changes as they age. They will still recognize that the 20 year old has a hot body, but they will be more attracted to women of their general cohort. Especially as a man has growing children of his own, those 20 somethings begin to look more and more like "kids".

 

Congrats! You just turned something beautiful into something ugly:

 

Sometimes he finds it amazing

That all of his children are wed

When their mother is still turning eighteen

And turning his head

She still turns his head

 

And the moon is still over her shoulder

And the stars are still falling above

And she never gets one minute older

And he is still falling in love

 

- Michel Johnson, "The Moon is Still Over Her Shoulder"

 

LOVE THIS!

[123321]

Yes, you asked me to not post pictures of your ex-gf. I haven't and won't. You also asked me not to be "evil" about her appreance.

 

Actually I half expected you to say something about her since she is pretty slim, but my don't be evil comment was meant to reinforce my privacy request. I was a little ambiguous, consider it corrected.

 

 

ou talk all the time about how you like younger women more! Why is that okay but what I have to say isn't?

 

Talk about what you find attractive all you like, I won't be offended unless it's a transparent effort to wrap the same old cr*p inside a different box. But when you make blanket insults about guys who for instance date young Russians it doesn't advance the conversation and it hurts peoples feelings to boot.

 

Also for the record I don't think younger women are better, I think younger women are in general more attractive when looking for someone new to date. There is a huge difference. "I don't like change, but when I do, I prefer younger women" - channeling the worlds most interesting man.

 

 

But as a woman, you are suppose to be comforted with the idea that he is with you for oyur personality even as he drools over 20 year olds or that he is picturing you when you were young.

 

I doubt my GF is with me solely for my rugged good looks. I realize that I'm not the oil painting I was at 19 (and I really was, BTW, FWIW) but I have been able to convince her that I'm really worthwhile to commit to. Sometimes it baffles me too but she seems pretty convinced.

 

Go with your strengths is all I can say.

[123321]

LOVE THIS!

 

Me too, have you heard the song? At the risk of sounding like a sap, I have to say it just tugs at my heart every time I hear it. Every. Time.

[Quiet Storm]

But as a woman, you are suppose to be comforted with the idea that he is with you for oyur personality even as he drools over 20 year olds or that he is picturing you when you were young. Well sorry but that doesn't seem like such great things to me. Those don't exactly seem like positives and they don't seem that healthy.

 

DY, I am confused. Wouldn't you prefer men to be with you for your personality and not your looks?

 

If he loves your personality, isn't the relationship more likely to endure, whether you are old, fat, paralyzed, a burn victim, etc?

 

There is nothing comforting about the fact that many men are more physically attracted to younger women. But it's a hard truth that most women eventually accept. Acceptance doesn't mean that we have to like it, but it doesn't mean we should suffer from it either. Pain is inevitable, but suffering is a choice.

 

As women, we shouldn't base our value on what men think of us.

 

At 50, I won't be conventionally "sexy" anymore and most men aren't going to look at me. Big whoop. I am valuable for other things, regardless. There are so many other ways that we can be meaningful to the people in our lives and so much that we can do and learn to feel confident and significant. When you fill your life with positive activities and people you love, not being valued for looks isn't that big of a deal.

 

We are worth so much more than our looks. If you can come to terms with this, the fact that men might not think you're hot when you age won't hurt so much.

[xxoo]

Me too, have you heard the song? At the risk of sounding like a sap, I have to say it just tugs at my heart every time I hear it. Every. Time.

 

No, I hadn't heard it, but I just looked it up!

 

My H is a country music fan. I'm not particularly a fan, but we listen to it in the car when he's driving. And he will reach over and grab my hand when the lyrics are of this nature. Sappy moments indeed

 

We are worth so much more than our looks. If you can come to terms with this, the fact that men might not think you're hot when you age won't hurt so much.

 

Wise words.

 

And each individual woman is not "women that age". Most 70 year old men aren't looking at rooms full of 70 year old women with lust, but they can fall in love with one 70 year old woman, and look at her as the most beautiful woman in the world.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

As much as it pains me to agree with DY on anything, she may have a point in that one specific instance.

 

Though perhaps that's just me buying into a stereotype, too.

 

Don't worry, I'm just as "pained" by you as you are with me Gorilla.

[123321]

No, I hadn't heard it, but I just looked it up!

 

My H is a country music fan. I'm not particularly a fan, but we listen to it in the car when he's driving. And he will reach over and grab my hand when the lyrics are of this nature. Sappy moments indeed

 

I'm not a CW fan either, I typically find it stomach turning but Michael Johnson is a pretty decent poet and musician and for me that transcends genre.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

123321

Details you left out when you made your heart-crushing blanket statement.

 

I'm sorry but it's no big secret that foreign women will look for older men to trick them into spending money on them and bringing them to America.

 

But I don't know why that's offensive to you. That's just the reality.

 

 

So if it's true then it's OK to be offensive, or if it's true then it's wrong to be offended? I'd like to know how this works.

 

How come saying that a 21 year old women's interest in a 50 year old is usually not for love but it's okay for you to talk about how much better younger women are regularly?

 

 

Congrats! You just turned something beautiful into something ugly:

Sometimes he finds it amazing

That all of his children are wed

When their mother is still turning eighteen

And turning his head

She still turns his head

 

And the moon is still over her shoulder

And the stars are still falling above

And she never gets one minute older

And he is still falling in love

 

- Michel Johnson, "The Moon is Still Over Her Shoulder"

 

I guess I fail to see the beauty in a man that has to pretend or draw on memories of his partner for when she was young to still find her of value.

 

On one hand, you are offended when I articulate how certain men degrade women by focusing on their age. But what is a woman suppose to believe when it's said that a woman's age matters, that a man will probably go for a younger woman, that younger women are basically better and when that younger woman ages, he will be thinking about her when she was younger. That doesn't sound like a man that really values that woman. IT sounds like a man that values her youth. To the point where he still has to draw on images of her when she was younger just to sustain his relationship with her when she is older.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I'm sure you know by now that these types of threads attract men who want women to know that there value lies mostly in their youth. I wouldn't get upset at what certain posters here say. I feel bad for the women, young or their age, who dated them.

 

I agree with this. It's just aggervating that certain men have the nerve to be offended about talking about men valuing women for their age when that's basically what they are saying themselves. And to act like talking about men that value age in women over anything else is hurtful to them yet they spend all this time pointing out over and over again how much better then think younger women are.

[GorillaTheater]

I guess I fail to see the beauty in a man that has to pretend or draw on memories of his partner for when she was young to still find her of value.

 

This is such utter crap, and shows by how many miles you're missing the point.

 

My wife is 48. When I look at her, I still see the breath-taking 16 year old I met many years ago. The song captured that quite well, and if you can't see it, you're damaged even more than I suspected.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Actually I half expected you to say something about her since she is pretty slim, but my don't be evil comment was meant to reinforce my privacy request. I was a little ambiguous, consider it corrected.

 

No it wasn't. You distinctly thanked me for not making personal comments about her because of what you feared I would say due to what apparently other women have said to you about her. Your "evil" comment wasn't just about respecting your privacy.

 

 

Talk about what you find attractive all you like, I won't be offended unless it's a transparent effort to wrap the same old cr*p inside a different box. But when you make blanket insults about guys who for instance date young Russians it doesn't advance the conversation and it hurts peoples feelings to boot.

 

I didn't say anything negative about guys who date young Russians. I said my former friend that is now married to a Marine that is younger than her, her ex husband who is 50 and works at Home-Depot is in love with a 21 year old Russian girl that has asked him for money.

 

Funny how you think it's completely appropiate to talk at length about how you date younger women and have made a number of personal comments about older women but no one else apparently is not allowed to make distinctions between some older and younger men as well. Funny how you're only allowed to do that.

 

You are so converned about your feelings getting hurt but you could careless about anyone else's. Especially women's. Especially since you often characterize older women as a bunch of things.

 

Also for the record I don't think younger women are better, I think younger women are in general more attractive when looking for someone new to date. There is a huge difference. "I don't like change, but when I do, I prefer younger women" - channeling the worlds most interesting man.

 

This is exactly what I am talking about. It's okay for you to make comments about younger women being better. YOu get all bent out of shape for women that may judge men that view women this way though. that makes no sense.

 

You think it's hurtful for me to say that older men that specifically go for younger women when dating don't really seem to respect any woman all that much but you don't see the hurtfullness in your comments. YOu want to be able to make all kinds of comments and qualifications about younger and older women but you get all bent of shape when you hear a woman do it.

 

Well I am sorry, I don't think a man that thinks younger women are better, whether he is newly dating them or not, really respects women all that much. And I don't really think it's a far stretch of reason to see why that is. You prize women and youthful looks. That's fine. But don't act like you are all "noble" and really value women and get bent out of shape when you get called out for the exact kind of comments you make. YOu want to be able to qualify women any way you want but you don't like that a woman many qualify other men for certain qualities.

 

 

 

I doubt my GF is with me solely for my rugged good looks. I realize that I'm not the oil painting I was at 19 (and I really was, BTW, FWIW) but I have been able to convince her that I'm really worthwhile to commit to. Sometimes it baffles me too but she seems pretty convinced.

 

Go with your strengths is all I can say.

[angie2443]

This is such utter crap, and shows by how many miles you're missing the point.

 

My wife is 48. When I look at her, I still see the breath-taking 16 year old I met many years ago. The song captured that quite well, and if you can't see it, you're damaged even more than I suspected.

 

I'm not damaged, but The lyrics in the song sound silly to me. Maybe I'm missing something, but I want my husband to love me as I am now. I am proud of the person I grew into. Part of getting older is, hopefully, learning more, becomming more skilled at something, advancing at things. I believe my husband loves the woman I am now, and the woman I am now is not the exact same person I was when we first met.

[GorillaTheater]

I'm not damaged, but The lyrics in the song sound silly to me. Maybe I'm missing something, but I want my husband to love me as I am now. I am proud of the person I grew into. Part of getting older is, hopefully, learning more, becomming more skilled at something, advancing at things. I believe my husband loves the woman I am now, and the woman I am now is not the exact same person I was when we first met.

 

Of course I love my wife as she is now. And maybe it's just silly romanticism on my part. But one thing it's definitely NOT is pretending or drawing on memories of her when she was young to still find her of value. THAT is very offensive.

[angie2443]

Of course I love my wife as she is now. And maybe it's just silly romanticism on my part. But one thing it's definitely NOT is pretending or drawing on memories of her when she was young to still find her of value. THAT is very offensive.

 

What exactly do you mean, then, when you say that you still the 16 year old that she was when you met?

[123321]

I'm sorry but it's no big secret that foreign women will look for older men to trick them into spending money on them and bringing them to America.

 

But I don't know why that's offensive to you. That's just the reality.

 

So if it's true then it's OK to be offensive, or if it's true then it's wrong to be offended? I'd like to know how this works. Please.

 

Because it really hurts when you say things like that without qualification with regard to the foreign women involved. I've dated a lot of foreign women and it shatters me to hear you say things like that about them and about our relationships. Heartbreaking really.

 

 

How come saying that a 21 year old women's interest in a 50 year old is usually not for love but it's okay for you to talk about how much better younger women are regularly?

 

Love is so complex, I don't think it's possible for you to know that and it's gut-wrenching to hear that said about my beloved. I would say it's safe to assume her love for me transcends the merely physical, however.

 

 

I guess I fail to see the beauty in a man that has to pretend or draw on memories of his partner for when she was young to still find her of value.

 

Well a lot of other people seem to think it's expressing a lovely sentiment in a beautiful way when he says she's still turning eighteen to him and still turns his head. It's a poetic way of saying she's still the woman he fell in love with all that time ago, and he still loves the mother of his children as if he was seeing her for the first time.

 

The horror.

[xxoo]

I guess I fail to see the beauty in a man that has to pretend or draw on memories of his partner for when she was young to still find her of value.

 

On one hand, you are offended when I articulate how certain men degrade women by focusing on their age. But what is a woman suppose to believe when it's said that a woman's age matters, that a man will probably go for a younger woman, that younger women are basically better and when that younger woman ages, he will be thinking about her when she was younger. That doesn't sound like a man that really values that woman. IT sounds like a man that values her youth. To the point where he still has to draw on images of her when she was younger just to sustain his relationship with her when she is older.

 

Does physical attraction = value?

 

It isn't that he has to draw on images of when she was younger. It is that he literally does notice her age. Yes, he can see the lines, the grays, and the droop, but he sees it through the filter of love and doesn't notice them when he looks at her.

 

It is difficult for me to look at my H through objective eyes. When I do, I am sometimes shocked at his aging--aging I never notice in day to day interaction. In my eyes, he's still the "young man" I fell in love with.