Can a 27 year old compete with a 21 year old girl?

[Quiet Storm]

DY, I am not trying to teach women or men anything. I am just explaining my feelings on the issue.

 

I am not for men or against women. I just accept people as they are. I don't think either sex should have to change. Men will keep thinking young women are hot. If a woman is upset about that, she has a right to those feelings. I just don't get upset about it, and my feelings are valid, too.

 

Nothing that any of us say or do to men will ever the fact that men often do value younger women for physical reasons. We can't change men and we can't control men. So what are our options? We either accept it or we don't. I choose to accept it and do not base my worth on my looks or how men view me. You choose not to accept it.

 

My husband still finds me very physically attractive. I have a very active and satisfying sex life. His occasional porn use doesn't bother me. I may feel differently if he was choosing porn over me, but he doesn't, so it's not an issue for me. I don't need to be the only woman in the world that he finds attractive. I just expect him to remain faithful and commited to me.

 

And as for him thinking of me when I was a teenager...that doesn't bother me, either. I was a hottie!

 

I'm not trying to teach women to be like me. I just want to offer women another perspective. We don't have to be forever suffering victims of men. We don't have to give our power away like that.

[xxoo]

I fear you are taking that term a little too literally - I feel it's a figure of speech rather than looking at them and seeing their "younger" self, they are seeing the same essential presence that they saw when they first met. From then on, the connection is such that the age of that person is not the factor nor is it even in their minds - because that same essence is still there and present.

 

Yes, it's an essence, and the essence does not age. And when the essence doesn't match with the outside appearance, the mind disregards that which does not fit

 

It isn't something that we do consciously. In fact, I have to try very hard to consciously see the physical reality.

 

Even with children this is true. It's hard for my 90 year old grandparents to "see" that their 60 year old "babies" are senior citizens!

[Quiet Storm]

Yes, it's an essence, and the essence does not age. And when the essence doesn't match with the outside appearance, the mind disregards that which does not fit

 

It isn't something that we do consciously. In fact, I have to try very hard to consciously see the physical reality.

 

Even with children this is true. It's hard for my 90 year old grandparents to "see" that their 60 year old "babies" are senior citizens!

 

 

So very true!

[mesmerized]

DY, I am not trying to teach women or men anything. I am just explaining my feelings on the issue.

 

I am not for men or against women. I just accept people as they are. I don't think either sex should have to change. Men will keep thinking young women are hot. If a woman is upset about that, she has a right to those feelings. I just don't get upset about it, and my feelings are valid, too.

 

Nothing that any of us say or do to men will ever the fact that men often do value younger women for physical reasons. We can't change men and we can't control men. So what are our options? We either accept it or we don't. I choose to accept it and do not base my worth on my looks or how men view me. You choose not to accept it.

 

My husband still finds me very physically attractive. I have a very active and satisfying sex life. His occasional porn use doesn't bother me. I may feel differently if he was choosing porn over me, but he doesn't, so it's not an issue for me. I don't need to be the only woman in the world that he finds attractive. I just expect him to remain faithful and commited to me.

 

And as for him thinking of me when I was a teenager...that doesn't bother me, either. I was a hottie!

 

I'm not trying to teach women to be like me. I just want to offer women another perspective. We don't have to be forever suffering victims of men. We don't have to give our power away like that.

 

Lol your feelings would be totally different if your husband preferred porn to you. You most probably wouldn't be here ttalking about acceptance. Its like someome in a warm house telling peole who are naked out in the cold how they understand them, no really you dont.

 

Im always amazed at women here who barely dated and married their first sweetheart giving dating advice here. Sorry but you guys barely know what its like to be dating nowadays, your optimism comes from the fact that youve only dated one or two men your whole life. I used to think the same way about men after my first relationship but then I gained experience!

Edited October 10, 2012 by mesmerized

[Oxy Moronovich]

Lol your feelings would be totally different if your husband preferred porn to you. You most probably wouldn't be here ttalking about acceptance. Its like someome in a warm house telling peole who are naked out in the cold how they understand them, no really you dont.

Where do you live that people stand out in the cold naked? Do people do this in Russia? And why bring up porn?

 

Im always amazed at women here who barely dated and married their first sweetheart giving dating advice here. Sorry but you guys barely know what its like to be dating nowadays, your optimism comes from the fact that youve only dated one or two men your whole life. I used to think the same way about men after my first relationship but then I gained experience!

Unlike you, she's in a successful relationship. I think a person who is in a successful relationship gives better dating advice than a bitter person who is unsuccessful in relationships.

[Quiet Storm]

Lol your feelings would be totally different if your husband preferred porn to you. You most probably wouldn't be here ttalking about acceptance. Its like someome in a warm house telling peole who are naked out in the cold how they understand them, no really you dont.

 

Im always amazed at women here who barely dated and married their first sweetheart giving dating advice here. Sorry but you guys barely know what its like to be dating nowadays, your optimism comes from the fact that youve only dated one or two men your whole life. I used to think the same way about men after my first relationship but then I gained experience!

If my husband preferred porn to me, that would hurt. But I wouldn't let that define me as a woman. My point was that women should get satisfaction in their lives, from things besides men, so that they will feel worthy regardless. Being physically attractive feels great, it's a good ego stroke, but it's not everything.

 

There are still good men out there, men that want to be committed and married. There are reasons to be optimistic.

 

I may not know what it's like to be dating, but my perspective may help someone.

 

Maybe being with the same man for so long gives me a view that could be beneficial. Maybe all men aren't so mean and shallow. Maybe 21 years of us sharing our feelings, getting to know his mindset, being by his side as he matured from a teen into a man into a husband and a father, understanding his priorities, what drives him, what he thought about growing up, his insecurities, how he feels about women and sex, how he views aging, how he relates to other men, his fears, how he parents... Maybe all that info could be helpful to women that seek to understand or succeed in relationships with men.

 

I know that men can seem shallow, but it's not always because they are sinister woman haters. Many times it just seems like that because they don't think like we do. I think both men and women could get along much better if they would both stop viewing each other though the lens of their own gender. When you are in a successful marriage or long term relationship, many of the stereotypes or preconceived notions about the other gender are proven to be wrong, and others are reinforced. It may not be helpful to you, but it could be constructive feedback for some readers.

[threebyfate]

My point was that women should get satisfaction in their lives, from things besides women, so that they will feel worthy regardless. Being physically attractive feels great, it's a good ego stroke, but it's not everything.

Heh, heh, have you been reading up on PUA?

[Shaun-Dro]

At age 32 I was able to impress a 20-year old waitress at a local bar enough for us to try things out (it failed, but . . . that's not the question here). And there's a college about two miles away.

 

Sorry, it's doable.

 

The thing is a lot of women in their early 20s are just coming to the realization that adulthood itself doesn't fix young men into real men all by itself. And a certain percentage will decide they're going to give older men a try.

 

I should also add that my dad was 55 and my mom 25 when they married. So, again . . . 27 y.o. male with 21 y.o. female is perfectly workable.

 

That's right. Once a woman hits 18, she can date a man of any age no matter what anyone says or thinks. Relationships of older with younger is natural selection because it seems to go both ways between genders. I'm a strong advocate of this too.

 

I guarantee you that if these ridiculous feminist laws were to be abolished, which some day it just might, we'd see a dramatic increase of women and men in their late teens and early 20s dating those in their 30s and beyond as the norm with no more barriers.

 

Like I said before, if people aren't turning their noses at homosexuals like they used to, this will also apply to young and old relationships. It's human nature and eventually it will happen very commonly.

[mesmerized]

Where do you live that people stand out in the cold naked? Do people do this in Russia? And why bring up porn?

 

 

Unlike you, she's in a successful relationship. I think a person who is in a successful relationship gives better dating advice than a bitter person who is unsuccessful in relationships.

 

Lol I was waiting for that. No she can't, being in a successful relationship doesn't translate to knowing how to date, not at all. We also have to see what successful means to different people. They might just be easy to please (like most people who marry their first love) or just lucky to meet an amazing guy early in dating or just have Very superior looks that makes dating effortless for them.

 

My mom has been married to her faithful husband for more than 30 years and she's truly cluless about dating. If these women actually dated in their twenties and found some guy I wouldn't object. But come on, you got married at like 18 twenty years ago and want to teach us about dating men now.Sorry just doesn't compute.

[Zed]

Yes, it's an essence, and the essence does not age. And when the essence doesn't match with the outside appearance, the mind disregards that which does not fit

 

It isn't something that we do consciously. In fact, I have to try very hard to consciously see the physical reality.

 

Even with children this is true. It's hard for my 90 year old grandparents to "see" that their 60 year old "babies" are senior citizens!

 

This essence may be true but it is often born of innocence and a level of purity that they (the 90 year old) experienced because they were dealing with babies. These babies grow up and mature and experience missteps, mistakes andheartache, but the parent can always refer back to their "innocence ofyouth" their purity in which they can imprint whatever feelings and"essences" they may have and these become treasured memories,unencumbered with the negatives.

 

The same hold true for a couple who are in successful long term marriages.Often times when I hear this description of this particular essence in which age is suspended, the couple were married very young or youngish and were ensconced in a fairly stress free marriage or relationship in which there was an opportunity for trust and respect to develop. Generally, physical attraction of the couple are similar or if it is asymmetrical, the woman is usually better looking than the man. So just like the baby who is now sixty, they also have unblemished memories to treasure and thus they will only see the youth and vitality.

 

This does not hold true for the vast majority of other relationships. A lot relationships were not born of being each other's first who they marry young, and can bask in each other's relative innocence and can paint an ideal picture that they can refer back to when they are old. A lot of couples come with battle scars, and thus it is much harder to paint that picture, unless of course there is a significant age difference in which case, it is easier for the older party to hold on to and keep that living picture of youth and vitality of that partner.

 

I can see how it can be frustrating to read of the relative complacency of long married people, giving advice who don't have to deal with how it is now. So acknowledging how men and women are is all good for them, they are shielded from having to deal with it.

[mesmerized]

If my husband preferred porn to me, that would hurt. But I wouldn't let that define me as a woman. My point was that women should get satisfaction in their lives, from things besides men, so that they will feel worthy regardless. Being physically attractive feels great, it's a good ego stroke, but it's not everything.

 

There are still good men out there, men that want to be committed and married. There are reasons to be optimistic.

 

I may not know what it's like to be dating, but my perspective may help someone.

 

Maybe being with the same man for so long gives me a view that could be beneficial. Maybe all men aren't so mean and shallow. Maybe 21 years of us sharing our feelings, getting to know his mindset, being by his side as he matured from a teen into a man into a husband and a father, understanding his priorities, what drives him, what he thought about growing up, his insecurities, how he feels about women and sex, how he views aging, how he relates to other men, his fears, how he parents... Maybe all that info could be helpful to women that seek to understand or succeed in relationships with men.

 

I know that men can seem shallow, but it's not always because they are sinister woman haters. Many times it just seems like that because they don't think like we do. I think both men and women could get along much better if they would both stop viewing each other though the lens of their own gender. When you are in a successful marriage or long term relationship, many of the stereotypes or preconceived notions about the other gender are proven to be wrong, and others are reinforced. It may not be helpful to you, but it could be constructive feedback for some readers.

 

Where I think you're wrong is that you always say you accept things as they are and you never try to change anything. If women always wanted to think like that, we wouldn't probably even be on this forum now posting. muslim women probably think the violence and extreme jealousy of their husbands is completely natural too.

 

Things can be changed even what men and women are attracted to, it might take a while and changes might not be drastic but they can still change for the better. The way I see your attitude is that oh everything when it comes to men and women's relationships is natural and unchangable and Im too lazy to dig into details anyway and hey it's been working out for me so far so I just accept it. Its ok to accept for your own piece of mind but you cant expect other women to not feel sad or evwn bitter about it or try to change it if they can.

Edited October 10, 2012 by mesmerized

[Oxy Moronovich]

Lol I was waiting for that. No she can't, being in a successful relationship doesn't translate to knowing how to date, not at all. We also have to see what successful means to different people. They might just be easy to please (like most people who marry their first love) or just lucky to meet an amazing guy early in dating or just have Very superior looks that makes dating effortless for them.

 

My mom has been married to her faithful husband for more than 30 years and she's truly cluless about dating. If these women actually dated in their twenties and found some guy I wouldn't object. But come on, you got married at like 18 twenty years ago and want to teach us about dating men now.Sorry just doesn't compute.

Relationships are not about finding the right person. It is about keeping the right person. Being easy to please is actually a good thing. It means she is not picky. It means she isn't a spoiled person that expects her partner to meet her unrealistic expectations.

 

All in all, who would you rather take your advice from: a person who is bitter and unsuccessful, or a person who is happy and successful?

[xxoo]

Things can be changed even what men and women are attracted to, it might take a while and changes might not be drastic but they can still change for the better.

 

What men and women are attracted to changes with time and culture, but how they are fundamentally attracted doesn't change.

 

If a woman can not accept the basic way that men are attracted to women, she will have a difficult time finding any peace in a relationship--let alone in dating.

 

There are things about women that are difficult for men to understand and accept. Does that make us wrong? Should we change?

[mesmerized]

Relationships are not about finding the right person. It is about keeping the right person. Being easy to please is actually a good thing. It means she is not picky. It means she isn't a spoiled person that expects her partner to meet her unrealistic expectations.

 

All in all, who would you rather take your advice from: a person who is bitter and unsuccessful, or a person who is happy and successful?

 

Someone who knows what she is talking about And has logic and experience, period. And give me a break, I could have stayed in my past relationships if I wanted and claim the same thing here. My mom could claim that for gods sake and she knows zero about dating. I would never take her advice and she agrees.

[Quiet Storm]

Where I think you're wrong is that you always say you accept things as they are and you never try to change anything. If women always wanted to think like that, we wouldn't probably even be on this forum now posting. muslim women probably think the violence and extreme jealousy of their husbands is completely natural too.

 

Things can be changed even what men and women are attracted to, it might take a while and changes might not be drastic but they can still change for the better. The way I see your attitude is that oh everything when it comes to men and women's relationships is natural and unchangable and Im too lazy to dig into details anyway and hey it's been working out for me so far so I just accept it. Its ok to accept for your own piece of mind but you cant expect other women to not feel sad or evwn bitter about it or try to change it if they can.

 

See, I don't think it can be changed, so we just have a difference of opinion.

 

I believe sex drive and attraction have strong biological, hormonal and instinctual components that will not change without hormone therapy. I think expecting men to change their physical attraction to youth and beauty is as about as realistic as changing a mother's instinct to protect and nurture her babies.

 

Although we are free thinkers and have self control, some of our behavior is driven by hormones and an unexplainable instinct, male or female. Most of us learn impulse control, we learn social graces, but I think our instincts remain unchanged.

 

Since I do not feel that it's changeable, I advocate acceptance, compromise and understanding.

[mesmerized]

What men and women are attracted to changes with time and culture, but how they are fundamentally attracted doesn't change.

 

If a woman can not accept the basic way that men are attracted to women, she will have a difficult time finding any peace in a relationship--let alone in dating.

 

There are things about women that are difficult for men to understand and accept. Does that make us wrong? Should we change?

 

Wrong. Even the fundamentals and basics can change unless you believe in adam and eve. It just takes a loot more time.

[xxoo]

Wrong. Even the fundamentals and basics can change unless you believe in adam and eve. It just takes a loot more time.

 

Can you share an example of what you mean?

[mesmerized]

Can you share an example of what you mean?

 

Evolution? Humans weren't always the same way nor will always stay the way they are now. We are constantly changing due to what we decide or have to do to survive. For example scientists think that the fact that women are having kids later in life now might make changes in the long run so that the baby making years in a woman's life increases. basically our decision in postponing pregnancy (which is also a necessity of our time) might cause a big change in a woman's life many generations from now. Also a lot of people relate attraction to fertility which in this case might also change when a woman's fertile years increases.

Edited October 11, 2012 by mesmerized

[xxoo]

Evolution? Humans weren't always the same way nor will always stay the way they are now. We are constantly changing due to what we decide or have to do to survive. For example scientists think that the fact that women are having kids later in life now might make changes in the long run so that the baby making years in a woman's life increases. basically our decision in postponing pregnancy (which is also a necessity of our time) might cause a big change in a woman's life many generations from now. Also a lot of people relate attraction to fertility which in this case might also change when a woman's fertile years increases.

 

I mean do you have a concrete example of how men evolved in recent history to be attracted in a fundamentally different way than previously. Not that what they are attracted to changed (fat vs. thin), but rather how they are attracted (visually vs. emotionally, or something like that).

[123321]

Evolution? Humans weren't always the same way nor will always stay the way they are now.

 

So you think that 1000's of generations of selective human breeding to produce a man that has urges you agree with is the solution to your dating problems, or what are you saying here?

[mesmerized]

I mean do you have a concrete example of how men evolved in recent history to be attracted in a fundamentally different way than previously. Not that what they are attracted to changed (fat vs. thin), but rather how they are attracted (visually vs. emotionally, or something like that).

 

What is previously? If it helps, some of our closest primates aren't driven by youth like humans are. In Fact i read a study that for them there is more fight to mate with an older female than a younger one.

 

Recent history? I cant think of an example that proves men to be non-visual but tons of examples of what is found visually attractive which I think still is important for our current discussion.

[xxoo]

What is previously? If it helps, some of our closest primates aren't driven by youth like humans are. In Fact i read a study that for them there is more fight to mate with an older female than a younger one.

 

Recent history? I cant think of an example that proves men to be non-visual but tons of examples of what is found visually attractive which I think still is important for our current discussion.

 

Here's one theory that suggests little has changed in the fundamentals of how men are attracted (visually):

 

In species who walk and mate on all fours, the rear end is a major sexual visual cue. As humans evolved to walk upright, and mate face-to-face, protruding breasts evolved to mimic the shape of the buttocks. What other species has protruding breasts, even when not lactating?

 

Instead of men's mode of attraction changing, the body theoretically changed to conform to the male's mode of attraction. Powerful stuff!

[Els]

See, I don't think it can be changed, so we just have a difference of opinion.

 

I believe sex drive and attraction have strong biological, hormonal and instinctual components that will not change without hormone therapy. I think expecting men to change their physical attraction to youth and beauty is as about as realistic as changing a mother's instinct to protect and nurture her babies.

 

Although we are free thinkers and have self control, some of our behavior is driven by hormones and an unexplainable instinct, male or female. Most of us learn impulse control, we learn social graces, but I think our instincts remain unchanged.

 

Since I do not feel that it's changeable, I advocate acceptance, compromise and understanding.

 

Yes, but as we are humans living in civilization and not cave people or animals, it is reasonable to accept some degree of balance and control. Otherwise we are mere animals.

 

Let's flip the coin around a little. Let us say we have a young female student, A, who has a blanket rule that she will only date men who make above 200k a year. Not only that, but she constantly makes statements such as, "Why would I date a lesser man when I can get those men? Men who don't make 200k a year are lazy and incompetent. It's like the difference between dating a baboon and dating Adonis himself. Women are biologically programmed to want a mate who can provide for them." (and these are all analogous to some quotes that I have seen on LS from both male and female posters)

 

Now, what would you think of such a woman? She is technically correct - the female of a species is, in many cases, biologically programmed to seek the male who can provide sustenance and security to her and her offspring. But does that mean that anyone who expresses disgust or denounces her attitude would be wrong to do so? Wouldn't you advise your male friends to stay away from her like the plague?

 

We are more than mere animals, and many of us want a mate who is, himself or herself, able to be more than that. We are capable of so much more than just survival and reproductory instincts, which are what drives other biological beings to mate. Some degree of understanding is in order, but some people take the 'biological' excuse to such extremes that a rational person cannot help but be repulsed by them.

[xxoo]

I agree, Els, we are blessed with higher reasoning, and it is more complicated that our pure biology.

 

That is why people will choose a mate they love over a younger, more beautiful choice, or a wealthier choice. That is why a 27 year old woman--or a 67 year old woman--has nothing to worry about, unless she is trying to compete in a beauty contest, or chooses a very shallow man who is incapable of that sort of higher reasoning and attraction.

 

Still, the biology exists, and it isn't "wrong". It just "is".

[Eternal Sunshine]

All things being equal, men would prefer to be with a young woman.

 

All things are never equal though, so women of all ages can find love