miz_barby Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Love is enough sometimes to get through rough patches in relationships? I posted a few days ago about breaking up, I vented and "aired out" all my "dirty laundry" in my relationship....I got some great advice which I really appreciate and just some overall emotional support! Well now I'm wondering...."is love enough to rekindle a relationship when ugly things have happened" no cheating just unreasonable jealousy (on his part). To be filled in you can read my other post..... my "breaking up" post Is there anyone else out there that has been in a overall decent relationship and gone through rough patches but managed to get it back together and has it actually worked out? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Spock Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 No, it's actually not enough. Especially in your case. He hit you (twice) and has many other issues. Link to post Share on other sites
HoldOn Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Well, I haven't been in that position. At least not where the relationship worked out. That's why my opinion is that love is NOT enough. I don't really think that love can conquer all. Sometimes, one person just has too many problems. My ex-bf was unemployed, he "borrowed" $16,000 from me and never paid me back, he was always breaking up with me and freaking out, he lied all the time,,, etc... But I don't doubt that he loved me (as much as he was capable). And I loved him too. But he was way too messed up to have a relationship. I finally realized that I needed to get rid of him and find someone sane to love... Link to post Share on other sites
HoldOn Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Anyway, my point is that a guy may love truly love you, but that doesn't mean you have to stay with him. ESPECIALLY when he is abusive. Link to post Share on other sites
miz_barby Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Okay so what if therapy actually works for him, and he comes to terms with all of this and he NEVER acts the way he did before.... assuming this can happen (only time will tell) why doesn't it seem possible things could work out? Why do people with personal problems and issues (WE ALL have them) deserve to be dumped when they are working and doing what they can to resolve this issue?? He isn't "blaming" me like I figured he would. He is taking 100% of the responsibilty and attempting to fix himself.... Why does someone like that (who's willing and trying to change) deserve to be tossed aside when in all other areas he's almost perfect (in my eyes anyway)?? I respect the fact that not everyone shares my view on second chances but what's wrong in giving someone a SECOND (not third, fourth, ect) chance? Why is that wrong? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Spock Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 I think that YOU should go into a counselling session of your own. Learn to identify an abusive relationship. Learn to identify abusers. Then you'll be better equipped to answer these kinds of questions. Link to post Share on other sites
HoldOn Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Why do people with personal problems and issues (WE ALL have them) deserve to be dumped when they are working and doing what they can to resolve this issue?? It is NOT about what he deserves. It is about what YOU deserve. Do you deserve to be hit, and yelled at and berated??? No! A relationship is not a charity, it is a partnership. Both partners have to hold up their end of the deal. If he is not, then he doesn't "deserve" anything." I respect the fact that not everyone shares my view on second chances but what's wrong in giving someone a SECOND (not third, fourth, ect) chance? Why is that wrong? Hey, there is nothing "wrong" with it. However, it is a DANGEROUS RISK. You are risking your emotional and physical health. It is NOT likely that he will change. Link to post Share on other sites
miz_barby Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 OK thanks I see I am only going to get these type of responses...he isn't an abuser..he was HEADED that way...his father BEAT him and his mother and he knows it's WRONG and doesn't want to continue down that path! I believe in helping people because NO ONE is perfect....yes not everyone raises a hand to other people but identifying your problem and working on it is a step in the right direction!! Anyway thanks again for your opinions... Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Spock Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 I do agree, Mizbarby, I'm actually concerned for you. You love him, so of course want things to work but is that the healthy choice for you? Link to post Share on other sites
HoldOn Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Oh Miz barby, To have Mr.Spock and me agree on a subject, I think you can pretty much guarantee that EVERYONE else will agree too! Sorry! I doubt you'll find many people agreeing that you should try with this guy. Was Mr.Spock mistaken when she said that he hit you? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Spock Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 If you read her breaking up thread, in addition to him striking her twice he also constantly berates her for imagined "cheatings" and tries to isolate her from family....he's very insecure, and in my mind is already an abuser. Link to post Share on other sites
Olivia_19742004 Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 I think that each person has to decide for themselves when it's time to end something. When it's time to come to the conclusion that the person is not going to change and for them to remain in the relationship is unhealthy. I disagree with the idea that because he made mistakes that he can't change. We are all human and I have an extremely forgiving nature. I tend to see the good side of a person far before I'll see the bad side and it takes a lot for me to even admit there is a bad side. I try to give the benefit of the doubt as often as I can but there is a time when you have to face reality. Some people won't change. Some people will only do you harm. I think the best thing is to remove yourself from a situation that causes you harm and then determine if in fact that situation can change. Link to post Share on other sites
miz_barby Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 I think that yes for me at this point staying by his side as long as he continues to do what's right then yes I feel he deserves the chance. I'm not perfect (i'm not mean or jealous either) but I have other hang-ups however minor but I'm far from perfect and he stuck by me while I worked them out. I don't "owe" him anything but out of pure love I believe he deserves one more try! I know this sounds soooo typical but I WAS in an abusive relationship *my marriage* for three years and never left because of fear and know the signs. He wouldn't admit he was wrong, wouldn't try and change, didn't realize he had a problem, he was nuts period! Oscar is soooooooooo far from the way my ex is. He is a caring and loving and kind *except when he gets like I described before* he knows he wrong and wants help. He doesn't drink, do drugs, nothing negative like that, he works and is independent financially doesn't ask me for things, doesn't cheat, doesn't go out to clubs, doesn't talk online, doesn't make me jealous, does so many wonderful small things to show and tell me he cares that I just can't see not letting him work on this issue without leaving him! I have never found such wonderful qualities in anyone else and I can't see letting it go over this, if he didn't want to change or know he had a problem then it would be a different story! After reading all the "OW" posts and cheating and "my man does this, my man does that" "why doesn't he come around, or answer the phone" posts like that make me realize *except his "issues" that I am lucky enough to have someone who's a decent respectable man. (i know this sounds dumb but it's how I feel). Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Spock Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Please be careful. When you love someone it makes it harder to protect yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
HoldOn Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 he isn't an abuser..he was HEADED that way... So... he hit you and he isn't an abuser. Okaaaay. Denial aint just a river in Egypt. Link to post Share on other sites
miz_barby Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Yes he hit me...(shoved me once in the arm hard (same thing to me) and the second time he pushed me against my chest (he didn't "strike" me but it's the same as hitting). I had pushed him first because he wanted me to talk to him and I wanted to leave, we both were wrong but none the less he shouldn't have shoved me so hard! Yes I realize it is an abusive thing to do...I know I'm the only one that can determine what to do and I also know I love him and feel in my heart I HAVE TO give him a second chance I vented a lot in that post and said I hated him but truth be told I love him and am deeply in love with him. I know I'm gonna give him a chance and if it works great if not at least I will know what to expect. I just needed some more pov's i won't keep bothering ya'll with this issue! Link to post Share on other sites
Pained Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 My father abused me when I was a little girl. I told my mother about it, she almost killed him, took me away that night, and refused to let me see him until I was older. I made the choice not to see him. I still remember the abuse. However, I decided that it stopped with me. I don't buy into the whole "well, he was abused too" excuse. We're all capable of making our own decisions. Besides, the whole thing about abusing someone, then being apologetic and sweet, and then abusing them is a vicious cycle. It's pretty common for abusers to act contrite and like they're willing to change, but few actually do. If you really love him, hand him the business card of a good therapist, tell him toodles, and go along your merry way. If he does decide to seek help, it will likely take years before he's truly broken free. It doesn't take a few weeks to stop being an abuser. I'm sorry, but that's the truth of it. If you truly love YOURSELF, walk away. I've been known to be needy and desperate in relationships past, but in any one of them, regardless of how much I "loved" the boyfriend in question, if he had ever laid a hand on me, I would have beat the ever loving s*** out of him before kicking his ass to the curb. Homie don't play that, so to speak. Link to post Share on other sites
miz_barby Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Sorry to hear about your abuse, glad your mother took you away. I never said him being abused was an EXCUSE there is no excuse period! He is NOW in therapy and I can't believe no one believes in second chances...everyone says "run" in some cases YES this is what to do but in mine I don't believe so! Thanks again. You don't have to respond...I don't expect any more responses but I appreciate your POV's! Thanks I know you all only want the best for everyone and that I appreciate! Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Spock Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 You should keep these things in mind. It's probably not a good idea to move in with him. For obvious reasons. Even if he pushes more than ever now. You should TRY to make some kind of friends. That you can hang out with, away from him and with him. If he is verbally abusive and accuses you of ogling men, leave. Catch a bus home, call mom or dad or whoever for a ride. Don't let him monopolize your time-set specific chunks of time away in a week for him, but don't let him guilt you into hanging out with him all the time. Link to post Share on other sites
lost_in_chgo Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 I've read the thread and maybe the truth is in here somewhere. You said "he hit me twice before" and got alot of sympathy over that from the group, but now you've migrated to "you hit him and he pushed you away". There are worlds of difference to those two statements. Certainly we can criticize his lack of control. But understand that you don't have a god given right to do whatever you want to him while he has to take it. Men, who don't physically respond to women who strike them, do so as a courtesy because they were raised that way and they known how much damage they can do. When you hit a man you are taking a big chance because his immediate response is normally to strike back. Not all men are wired or condition not to respond. Initiating a physical fight and then getting upset when he pushes you away probably isn't your best tack here. Especially if you think he has the potential to lose control. You need to try to diffuse the situation, not try to escalate it. Watch for this type of behavior to get called self defense more and more as women demand and migrate to equal status they will have to account for their actions. From a legal standpoint he could file battery charges against you. Though men rarely do this. And before the band leaders jump on the wagon, I am not condoning violence against women. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Spock Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 True enough, if he's punched her full on in the face it's a different matter-but those incidents combined with the behaviours she's described are what makes me worry. Link to post Share on other sites
miz_barby Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 You said "he hit me twice before" and got alot of sympathy over that from the group, but now you've migrated to "you hit him and he pushed you away". NO i said I PUSHED him while trying to leave the room and he pushed me back and I'm not seeking sympathy by any means! I was venting and seeking adivce!! PUSHING to me is the same as hitting so yes I was wrong too! I didn't mention this earlier because i was angry and upset and pointing out what HE did not mentioning what I did also. As I mentioned in the breaking up post earlier today he is doing 40 minutes of therapy seperate and 20 together once a week. Maybe it'll work maybe it won't who knows? Link to post Share on other sites
lydiamarie Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 wanting to change isn't enough. i want to be thinner. i want to be smarter. i want to be kinder. i want to be more stable. i want to have longer hair. i want a lot of things. i have control over these things to varying degees, but it takes time for any of them to happen. i want to not get hit. i bet you want not to be abused as well. i would even bet that he doesn't enjoy hitting you, that it isn't something that he wants to do. but he does it. and while he's working on fixing that, he is still abusive. and that's not okay. it's not safe for you. so you need to stay out of a relationship with him until he's 'fixed'. i agree that therapy would probably do you some good. you need to be able to identify what makes a relationship abusive (and there is a lot more to it than the physical). and then if you decide to begin a relationship (with him or anyone) you can keep your eyes open and have a fighting chance at staying safe. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 You are making a huge mistake. You've already given him chances. You're like the gambler who, every time he puts his money down, thinks 'THIS time, it'll work'. It never does. Have you forgotten that he threatened to kill you? His attempts to isolate you and his jealousy are classic signs. Don't think you are the expert on abuse because you lived with one abusive man. They don't all behave the same way and to minimize it because you haven't been hit worse is just bogus. You don't love him. Or, rather, you, in childhood, were taught that love and abuse go together and you badly need therapy to disconnect the two. He will promise to be good 'this time'. He will cry pitiful tears. He will beg and promise with all his heart and soul. And next time, you'll be hurt worse. After one and a half years, this man still distrusts you. Do you not get that he's not going to change without years of therapy? I sent you links with excellent information. I recommend you read it all again and pay attention. You want a happy-ever after and you have cast this man in the role of Prince Charming but he is not. Prince Charming would treat you well, for starters. That's how you know someone loves you. Link to post Share on other sites
lost_in_chgo Posted July 27, 2004 Share Posted July 27, 2004 Well I don't see him pushing back as abusive. But Vouyouyou, oops, I mean Moimeme makes a good point, the threats are a big concern. As far as isolation, you described yourself as a loner at one point, so him liking that is not necessarily evil. The jealous fits are a character flaw and maybe a warning sign. But remember that warning signs are just that, not definitive. You must judge for yourself. But don't let your need for him outweigh your common sense. Link to post Share on other sites
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