Men Forced to Marry

[xxoo]

Because marriage is how we create new family units in our culture. The day we married, we said that we are family--to each other and to the world. As a married couple, our relationship is more respected among family and friends--not just a dating partner, but a spouse. I see my gay friends getting married for this reason alone, as it becomes legal in their respective states.

 

It's more than a legal contract. It's a symbolic and meaningful act of creating a new family unit.

 

You do realize that having children, buying a house together, and building a life together without marriage is still a legal mess to dissolve, should you ever wish to leave, right? It isn't necessarily "marriage" that makes it difficult to extricate yourself; it's the shared life, house, and kids!

Edited October 23, 2012 by xxoo

[LadyGrey]

I don't drink kool aide........but you desperately want people to drink your brand of kool aide. I bet it tastes very bitter and sour.

 

 

This all sounds so, erudite and impressive, but like so many others, you are toeing the party line. I am interested in answers to the questions I post and not psuedo psycho babble. Or whatever this is supposed to be.

 

I have already had the effect I had hoped. So it is all icing from here on in.

 

Marriage is not necessary. Love is more important. Trust is more important. Common interests, caring, intimacy, and a whole host of other things are more important to me in my relationships. You know what is most important to most of the women who side with you? A marriage contract.

 

That sort of says it all to me.

 

Say what you will. There were over a thousand people willing to follow Jim Jones to Guyana and drink poisoned Kool Aid. That boggles the mind, but it happened.

 

And similarly there are many women here who are high fiving it and loving your every word about me and the evil patriarchy or whichever bugaboo is on the plate this evening.

 

But men are paying closer attention to posts like yours and asking themselves good questions. They just tend to discuss these things on other forums where mostly men can speak rationally and work through them.

 

I am not alone in this, despite what you think you know.

 

Have a great day. I am very proud of the decrease in marriages these days. Men are finally opting out. It is about time. This will in turn decrease the divorce rate and hopefully stop children from growing up in broken households. At least I hope so.

 

I would not expect you to care about this. You made your point clear above and your perspective and your priorities are clear for all to see.

 

If my posts seem strange to you, you can either continue to see them that way, or possibly do some reflection. You might not like what you find when you dig around in there, so maybe it is better to just keep drinking that Kool Aid.

 

Either way, it is your choice. Keep posting. This is great for men to see.

[threebyfate]

I plan to force my boyfriend to marry me soon.

 

Thanks, guys, for the helpful advice.

If you superglue him to you, including head, body and legs, when you walk up the aisle, he'll walk with you. When you nod "I do", he'll also nod "I do". This will ensure that he's forced to marry you. Good luck!

[strongnrelaxed]

Because marriage is how we create new family units in our culture. !

 

I will leave the rest alone and simply ask AGAIN - why MUST we create a legal contract.

 

Still no answers. I have had some snide comments, a good dose of sarcasm, a few expressions of frustration and a whole heaping of repetitive platitudes.

 

Still no solid answer as to why the contract is necessary.

 

We all know the answer, I just want someone to say it out loud. I am not surprised that these are the sorts of answers I am getting. This is the best medicine because based on the views, a fair number of people are reading these posts.

 

It used to be that a marriage contract protected women. This is no longer the main purpose.

 

I am still without a decent answer to this question - one without sarcasm or personal attacks.

[strongnrelaxed]

I don't drink kool aide........but you desperately want people to drink your brand of kool aide. I bet it tastes very bitter and sour.

 

Clever you are.

 

You should get around this site more. There are other men commenting now. More and more. And you will not like what you read methinks.

 

I find your comments to be non surprising. What I am disappointed about is that so few decent older women with some wisdom do not step in and try to be eloquent and diplomatic about this. I have been yearning for a solid female response without the typical "yes, but if you would only stop.....you might get better responses"

 

Why not?

 

Forget about "where have all the cowboys gone" I ask where all the great women have gone?

[xxoo]

We all know the answer, I just want someone to say it out loud.

 

Please, share. Does it explain why my friends and family members in same-sex couples are fighting for the right to marry, and joyfully doing so as they are legally able?

 

Are you asking for us to list the practical advantages of being legally married?

Edited October 23, 2012 by xxoo

[Mme. Chaucer]

Nobody says we MUST have a legal contract.

 

Also, I realize that there are women who have pushed for marriage.

 

So what? If a man isn't man enough to stand up for what he believes (like you, evidently, since you've married twice when you think marriage is like being raped, being the victim of a cult lead mass suicide, etc) then he gets what he gets.

 

And when a man or woman IS standing up for what they believe in, they live by it. Even if some ranting and raving paranoiac shows up on LoveShack and starts screaming at all of us about it.

[strongnrelaxed]

Please, share. Does it explain why my friends and family members in same-sex couples are fighting for the right to marry, and joyfully doing so as they are legally able?

 

I have been marveling in stunned silence at this.

 

Why the bloody hell would gays want marriage?! The freedom of association in the gay and lesbian cultures and communities may be one of the greatest benefits of all - and they are giving it away! I get it about the financial benefits, but once again, that says it all. It is about financial benefits and has nothing to do with love. Love is what you already have BEFORE the marriage contract.

 

Holy cow! Gay people! Think thrice on this one. You are making a big mistake. What you think are equal rights in this case is just a trap.

 

You were warned.

 

To wit:

[strongnrelaxed]

Nobody says we MUST have a legal contract.

 

Also, I realize that there are women who have pushed for marriage.

 

So what? If a man isn't man enough to stand up for what he believes (like you, evidently, since you've married twice when you think marriage is like being raped, being the victim of a cult lead mass suicide, etc) then he gets what he gets.

 

And when a man or woman IS standing up for what they believe in, they live by it. Even if some ranting and raving paranoiac shows up on LoveShack and starts screaming at all of us about it.

 

When did you get that official "paranoiac" diagnosis on me? I missed the memo. I also do not scream. Ok, I admit, I do use all CAPS sometimes to emphasize a thing or too because I am too lazy to do the bold thing.

 

My dear favorite new poet. We can end this little bickering so simply. Would you just admit that you want me? This is so unnecessary all this drama. PM me and we'll work out the details.

 

Where are the moderators on this site? How do you get away with so many personal attacks. You are like teflon Chaucer. You just spew away with no repercussions.

 

(PS, Call me)

[xxoo]

I have been marveling in stunned silence at this.

 

Why the bloody hell would gays want marriage?! The freedom of association in the gay and lesbian cultures and communities may be one of the greatest benefits of all - and they are giving it away! I get it about the financial benefits, but once again, that says it all. It is about financial benefits and has nothing to do with love. Love is what you already have BEFORE the marriage contract.

 

Holy cow! Gay people! Think thrice on this one. You are making a big mistake. What you think are equal rights in this case is just a trap.

 

You were warned.

 

To wit:

 

Marriage brings status to the relationship. A spouse and marriage is respected--by family, by friends, by employers, by society, by government--more than a boyfriend, girlfriend, or life partner.

 

If you want to rage against marriage, you'll first need to rage against that reality.

[strongnrelaxed]

If you want to rage against marriage, you'll first need to rage against that reality.

 

I am raging against both as best I can!

 

I am also raging against machines, bulls, and the dying of the light - and a few other things that demand raging.

 

Cut me some slack. I cannot pour it on any stronger than I have been.

[strongnrelaxed]

Marriage brings status to the relationship.

.

 

So it is about status now?

 

You can have a ceremony, vows exchanged, rings swapped, cakes, candles, babies, trips to Home Depot, name changes (or not) and the whole shebang - all without a marriage license.

 

The question still remains unanswered.

 

Good Lord this is tiring!

 

I know damned well that no woman can answer this question for the record. I just want men to notice the elusiveness. This has gone past pathetic and has now become entertaining to watch all of this theater.

[Pirouette]

What if you believe that the institution of marriage is the strongest statement and promise before man, church, and state that this is your chosen partner for life?

[xxoo]

So it is about status now?

 

You can have a ceremony, vows exchanged, rings swapped, cakes, candles, babies, trips to Home Depot, name changes (or not) and the whole shebang - all without a marriage license.

 

Yes, it is about being fully respected as legal spouses, by all relevant parties--from community to work to the government.

 

You absolutely can not achieve the same without the paperwork.

 

With that, I'm beginning to accept that you are being deliberately obtuse, and I'm finished offering my time and attention to this matter

[strongnrelaxed]

What if you believe that the institution of marriage is the strongest statement and promise before man, church, and state that this is your chosen partner for life?

 

Ok, this is not an answer per se, but at least it is collegial.

 

If a legal marriage is the only way you can make a strong statement and promise to those around you regarding your life partner, then that says a lot about who you are as a person and a partner.

 

I personally find it sad that you require a legal document to profess your love, but I guess I must respect your decision.

[strongnrelaxed]

Yes, it is about being fully respected as legal spouses, by all relevant parties--from community to work to the government.

 

You absolutely can not achieve the same without the paperwork.

 

With that, I'm beginning to accept that you are being deliberately obtuse, and I'm finished offering my time and attention to this matter

 

I was ignoring you until you stated a blatant lie. You can indeed achieve all of those things without a marriage license. This is my whole point.

 

You can express your opinions all you like. You can also tell lies. But you can absolutely not change reality. That is not possible despite your imperious comments.

 

That plays well with the other women here, but it does not fly with rational adults.

 

I will not call you on this crap any more. You have been outed and others can read this since it is now on record.

Edited October 23, 2012 by strongnrelaxed
Typo

[Mme. Chaucer]

The question still remains unanswered.

 

Good Lord this is tiring!

 

I know damned well that no woman can answer this question for the record. I just want men to notice the elusiveness. This has gone past pathetic and has now become entertaining to watch all of this theater.

 

If the question is: "Why must we have a legal contract?" it's been answered probably over a dozen times:

 

Nobody says we MUST have a legal contract.

 

Just because YOU seem to have it stuck in your head that you "MUST" have this does NOT mean that the rest of us believe this.

 

Those of us who have CHOSEN to marry have explained to you why. Women AND men.

 

You spout a profound amount of comedic nonsense, but still, I know without a vestige of a doubt that you are free and entitled to believe what you wish. What is baffling is your seeming incapacity to understand that the rest of us have our beliefs too; many of them arrived at after many years and experiences of our own. They are 100% valid FOR US, just as yours are for you.

 

Also, just for the record - your histrionic, insulting manner, and "misery loves company" stance are unlikely to garner you many "followers."

[Mme. Chaucer]

I was ignoring you until you stated a blatant lie. You can indeed achieve all of those things without a marriage license. This is my whole point.

 

 

You really should disappear if you can't refrain from calling people who don't agree with you (the majority of us on this site, by the way) "liars."

 

In the state where two of my family members live, people are not able to get their SO's on health insurance unless they are married.

 

Also, adults who live together, but are not married, are not eligible for their partner’s dependents’ or survivors’ social security benefits.

 

Just a couple of examples of benefits to the "paperwork" of being legally married.

[Pirouette]

Ok, this is not an answer per se, but at least it is collegial.

 

If a legal marriage is the only way you can make a strong statement and promise to those around you regarding your life partner, then that says a lot about who you are as a person and a partner.

 

I personally find it sad that you require a legal document to profess your love, but I guess I must respect your decision.

 

These are the kinds of answers your going to get for what is basically a sociological question. The advantages of marriage are what society will give you. The disadvantages are what society will give you. Your beliefs can shape them, but only to an extent.

 

I am an atheist as well, but I will not belittle someone's religious beliefs and all the demands that places on them to be in compliance with it as long as it doesn't infringe on my well-being.

 

The reality is in this society, marriage facilitates a strong bonding between two people in terms of legal rights and legitimacy in the eyes of the many social institutions that we participate in. It it difficult to ask people to shed beliefs that have been ingrained in them since they were born and to turn their backs on the societal constructs that can have real influences on our day to day lives.

 

And, you're right about one thing, it is a legal and binding document that states that you are combining every part of your life with another person, and you'd think people would take that more seriously than they do.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Pirouette

[Nyla]

If we stop feeding the troll, he'll go away.

[strongnrelaxed]

If we stop feeding the troll, he'll go away.

 

Hi Nyla. I can only assume you are a woman. Few men would offer such an empty and childish comment to such a serious topic.

 

Epic fail. I love it. Thanks.

[strongnrelaxed]

You really should disappear if you can't refrain from calling people who don't agree with you (the majority of us on this site, by the way) "liars."

 

In the state where two of my family members live, people are not able to get their SO's on health insurance unless they are married.

 

Also, adults who live together, but are not married, are not eligible for their partner’s dependents’ or survivors’ social security benefits.

 

Just a couple of examples of benefits to the "paperwork" of being legally married.

 

Ok. Then we're on the same page - FINALLY. It is all about financial arrangements.

 

I just wanted to hear a woman finally admit it.

 

And - why would I not call out a blatant lie or misinformation? If someone were to say that all women are feminists, that would be a lie. I would call them on that too.

 

I would expect nothing less from any Humanist.

[strongnrelaxed]

If the question is: "Why must we have a legal contract?" it's been answered probably over a dozen times:

 

 

 

Just because YOU seem to have it stuck in your head that you "MUST" have this does NOT mean that the rest of us believe this.

 

Those of us who have CHOSEN to marry have explained to you why. Women AND men.

 

You spout a profound amount of comedic nonsense, but still, I know without a vestige of a doubt that you are free and entitled to believe what you wish. What is baffling is your seeming incapacity to understand that the rest of us have our beliefs too; many of them arrived at after many years and experiences of our own. They are 100% valid FOR US, just as yours are for you.

 

Also, just for the record - your histrionic, insulting manner, and "misery loves company" stance are unlikely to garner you many "followers."

 

I know that nothing I can say will make it any clearer to you that your responses are not my concern - except insofar as they support my points. When you say "US" I wonder who you are talking about.

 

I have no followers. I would never hope to have any such thing. This concept is despicable to me - I will leave such odd behaviors to you and your ilk.

 

I am very pleased to have found, in other threads, a number of men who are right there on the same page with me. When you comment as you do, you only support the points I am making. I know you do not get this - but you and I are on the same side. I keep saying this over and over.

 

I just heard about a black woman who set herself on fire to make it seem like a racist attack had happened. She inadvertently harmed her own cause more than any racist ever could have. That woman, MME C, is YOU.

 

The more you rant and post ignorant, uninformed and unsophisticated comments to my posts, the more you provide proof of the very things I am saying about the worst among your gender.

 

Not all women are bad. There are many great women in my life and I am lucky to have them. But there are growing numbers of women just like you. No accountability, no couth, not apparent moral grounding, and a severe lack of real wisdom and intelligence.

 

I have your party line completely memorized. But please continue to spew. The more young men who read your posts, the better.

 

Again - thanks for the assist.

 

oh, and PS = call me.

[Pirouette]

Hi Nyla. I can only assume you are a woman. Few men would offer such an empty and childish comment to such a serious topic.

 

Epic fail. I love it. Thanks.

 

So do you happen to think that women as a whole are more childish, empty, and morally bankrupt then men?

 

If you do, I'd like to know your reasons why you think that is.

[CarboniteCammy]

Because he has two failed marriages under his belt, and thus the entire institution of marriage is bankrupt becuase of his inability to wisely choose a life partner.