what should children be told ?

[standtall]

here is an example of a possible scenario...

 

Molly has noticed something is up between mom and dad, but so far, n one has told her anything.One night, she ends up overhearing dad on the phone telling someone mom has cheated. The next day, she asks dad what did he mean when he said mom cheated...

 

what should he tell her? should he lie or tell the truth? Should he cover up what happened or should he give an age appropriate , direct answer to the question? If he chooses to cover things up, what has he taught his daughter? That it's okay to lie, that his daughter can't trust him to be honest? Or has he saved her from feeling badly towards her mother?

 

It seems pretty complicated, and I have to wonder if it's a case of choosing the lesser of two evils....

 

 

Again, what age are you talking about? IMHO, their are no absolutes when it comes to revealing adult relationship problems to your children. Covering it up? It is a kid we are talking about, not a peer or someone with authority over you. In my house, the tail doesn't wag the dog. Personally, I would tell the child that it is none of their business, and that it is not polite to eavesdrop on conversations...end of story.

Edited October 5, 2012 by standtall

[frozensprouts]

Again, what age are you talking about. IMHO, their are no absolutes when it comes to revealing adult relationship problems to your children. Covering it up? It is a kid we are talking about, not a peer or someone with authority over you. In my house, the tail doesn't wag the dog. Personally, I would tell the child that it is none of their business, and that it is not polite to eavesdrop on conversations...end of story.

 

while your child raising method is certainly your prerogative, don't you think that dismissing the question of a child who may well be confused and upset due to what's going on in the house may be very hurtful to her? How do you feel her concerns should be addressed? What if she came right out and asked point blank if mom was cheating? Even if she doesn't know exactly what cheating is, she knows it is bad and it's something that one shouldn't do ...after all, most children know it's bad to cheat on tests,while playing a game, etc. ( kids do know a lot more about relationships than we give them credit for...at least when it comes to the terminology used...not so much the feelings behind them)

[BetrayedH]

FS, you did what you thought was best at the time. Let it go..........hon.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. Even in hindsight, it ain't 20/20. Cut yourself some slack.

[frozensprouts]

Exactly what I was thinking. Even in hindsight, it ain't 20/20. Cut yourself some slack.

 

thanks ...and you too lady grey...

 

i try to teach my kids to be honest, tell the truth, and stand up for themselves....the reality is that I didn't set a good example. I know that I was doing the best I could at the time, and I hope it hasn't had any long term effect on them.

 

We've sat them down and talked together with them about what happened ( keeping it appropriate to their age and their ability to understand) . I hope that presenting a "united front" to them has helped to undo any damage we may have caused.

[standtall]

Let me get this straight, telling your kids the truth is a form of "vengeance"?

 

Against who?

 

If it's vengeance then I have no problem with letting the spouse who cheated tell the kids the truth about what they did and why the marriage is breaking up.

 

Then your "vengeance" contention goes straight in the rationalization trash can, doesn't it? How can it be "vengeance" for the spouse who broke up the marriage to tell the kids honestly about what they did?

 

Yes, you got that straight. If telling the truth to your children about your former cheating spouse..which happens to be their mother of father...and it hurts their sense of self worth and peace of mind, then yes, it is vengeance on your part. You are acting no better than the woman who wants to cut the child in half to win her dispute. Your putting yourself first and cloaking it under the BS premise of telling the truth. Sorry you don't want to hear it.

 

My rationalization could go in the trashcan, but it is already full from your long winded, angry, hateful, bitter and betrayed ones.

 

ducksoup's 0 trashcan 1

[standtall]

Fine. Then by your standards, the spouse who cheated has the obligation to honestly explain what they did to the kids, that way, no one is bad mouthing anyone.

 

Another rationalization in the trash can.

 

Remember, the former wayward spouses are scumbags..they didn't behave honorably in the marriage, what makes you think that they are going to perform under your sense of what their obligations are?

 

ducksoup 0 trashcan 2

 

Just because your ex is a scumbag and acting poorly, it doesn't mean you have to jump in the gutter and join them by bad mouthing them in front of your joint children. Sheesh, the fact that I have to explain that to you is mind boggling.

Edited October 5, 2012 by standtall

[BetrayedH]

The stuff I read was less infidelity focused and more divorce focused. I researched how to tell the children about a divorce, not about an affair. It was long ago enough now that I really have no idea about the sources. The last one was my mandatory four-hour parenting course as part of the divorce. There was no ambiguity whatsoever in that program. No disparaging the other parent; keep your kids out of your bull****. And they reinforced it for four straight hours in every way possible. I began to see that my interest in disclosing my wife's infidelity was truly more about the fact that I had been betrayed and less about what was actually good for them.

 

Ducksoup, your head would probably spin clean off. I just took the course a few weeks ago (the day prior to mediation) and it reinforced what I had read prior to telling the kids many months ago and the strategy I had employed.

 

Since the honesty thing was such an issue for you with your wife, perhaps this is just hitting a little close to home. I have always been a huge advocate of openness and honesty so your message isn't lost on me. It resonates. But I'm not sure I believe in honesty at all costs. You have your honesty but as far as I can tell, you're pretty miserable. I get that honesty is a touchy subject for you but can you objectively say right now that honesty trumps all other considerations? Is it really working that well for you?

 

As for my kids, their emotional well-being at this age is a competitor. And as I've said, it's only a matter of time before the truth will come out. I have a close enough bond with my children that I think they'll respect that I didn't want to disparage their mother to them but that at a later age, it was either necessary or appropriate to discuss.

[standtall]

I'm going to sleep now..I look forward to ducks 9 page dissertation about how everyone else here is an idiot in the morning.

[amaysngrace]

For now after reading all of this, I will do all in my power to prevent the need for such a conversation.

 

That's a good decision.

 

One of those articles says tell them the truth in terms they can comprehend, the second one says don't tell them at all and the third one says never lie to your children.

 

Personally I don't lie and I expect honesty from others too, my children included.

 

How do you teach a child to respect a parent when they behave in a disrespectful manner? How do you teach a child that a parent loves them so much while they've proven that their happiness matters more than their child's?

 

Isn't that being dishonest?

 

Children know more than we give them credit for. That was in one of those articles. My exH wasn't unfaithful (or he could have been) but he was worse than a cheater IMO. My daughter at age four recognized that he was not like other daddies when we were at my son's friend's house and the dad was there. She asked me why her daddy wasn't like other daddies, even mine?

 

I told her then that her daddy doesn't think or feel like normal people do. That he loves her as best as he is able but it's not the way that other people love. I'm glad I did too because it wasn't long after that when daddy was a no call no show when he was suppose to get the kids. And he would do it regularly.

 

But I'm glad at age four she knew there was something wrong with him. It made it so much easier when I had to reinforce that fact later on. It was her truth for as long as she can remember when she considered her dad. And that's a good thing. I wouldn't want her to ever think for a second that it could be her.

 

If a parent cheats they are selfish IMO. And it's very hard to change that characteristic about oneself so if divorce occurs the cheating parent may very well act in a selfish manner where they've put their child's well being second to their wants. If a child knows that the parent is selfish already then maybe they won't for a second think that it's them as soon as its brought to their attention again. It's their truth.

 

I mentioned in a similar thread that's circulating that I had the stranger talk with my children before they went into kindergarten. It's a harsh reality but they knew of it before they went on a schoolbus and would be away from me.

 

Ugly truths are ugly truths and that is reality and as far as I'm concerned I think once you teach your child one harsh reality their world is no longer perfect. But I would not take back that conversation of stranger danger to keep my children protected. In fact we had that conversation so that they would be prepared and protected.

 

So where do you draw the line on what to tell your child?

 

I think Ducky hit a home run when he said parents won't disclose information that makes them seem less than perfect. What a disservice to a child. Teaching them that everybody makes mistakes will do more for a child's esteem than having false expectations of perfection. Humility is a fine thing to show your children IMO.

 

Another thing I realize is that my children aren't me. They aren't Dad. They are themselves. I've stressed this as well. I think I've done a pretty good job at subtly driving that point home too.

 

In case they were wondering.

[BetrayedH]

There's no hard and fast rule about how children learn from their FOO. Some model their parents' behavior later in life. Others rebel against it. Being dishonest could make them dishonest or it could result in a distaste for it and they become more honest than the previous generation. It's a crapshoot. The one characteristic that DOES seem to pass down is discipline. How you were disciplined is how you know to discipline. But that's not what we're discussing here.

 

DS, we're just not going to agree here. I refuse to get down into the mud and sling it out with my wife (that seems to be a plain concept to me); you would never foster a relationship with any kind of deception (that seems to be a plain concept for you). I doubt we are going to meet with the middle here.

[Silly_Girl]

My daughter was 9 when my wife had an affair and everything went to hell. We told her that we had "adult" problems that made it really hard for us to stay married and that these problems have nothing to do with her and are not her fault.

 

I don't plan on keeping my wife's affair a secret forever. I'm not decided when I would tell. If my daughter ever asked me I would tell her the truth... Well, let me clarify, if she is in her teen years and later and she asks I'll say Mommy had an affair. If she asks "why" before she's a teen, I'll probably stick to the "adult problems" answer and tell her she can ask again when she's older.

 

I think telling kids about stuff like this is dangerous since one of the worst things you can do is try to turn the child against the other parent. Even speaking of an affair is a way of painting the other parent as "bad". Then the other parent (especially in a divorce) will probably want to tell the kid of the horrible stuff the betrayed spouse did that supposedly caused the affair...then the BS will want to tell the kid why they did what they did and that people are responsible for their own actions...and on and on.

 

I think there's a certain age when they might be ready for some info, probably depends on the child and the situation.

 

I like this post. And with the answer of 'adult problems' you're not lying. Kids know people piss each other off at times. They get frustrated by it themselves, in their own social circles. Best buddies fall out. Sometimes they make up, sometimes they don't.

 

And I never think cheating is 100% on one person (not a view shared by many here, I know) and that's why I find it unfair to shove all the blame in one basket and hand it to one party. Life is much more complex than that. For kids well in to their teens I don't really see any gain to be had in filtering the truth. For younger however, I do. The adult relationship is an entity of itself. It is private and personal gripes are not the concern of the children. You don't share with your kids if you're going through a sex drought or that you're tired of how little attention/affection you're getting at the moment. You don't turn to them with marital issues and cheating is a marital issue. Kids know the ins and outs of a marriage is not their business, there is no pre-determined 'right' to be made aware of everything that goes on between their parents.

 

That said, it does have to be weighed up in the circumstances... Whether the OW/OM might pop up, whether the entire local community knows, whether the spouse has left and is living with the AP etc etc.

[Silly_Girl]

I was not sure that the children ought to be told, as I thought it was unfair to involve them in their parents' messy business. But my then-lover felt strongly that they should be involved in a process which would affect them quite significantly, especially after the trauma they had suffered during an earlier separation. She suggested I speak to them and explain my situation, why I planned on leaving their mother, that this had nothing to do with my love for or relationship with them, and how this might affect them (and allow them to choose which parent they wished to live with primarily). And also to suggest, offer, and organise family counselling to make the transition easier. Given the very healthy relationship she has with her own children I decided to take her advice, and had the conversation with them. They were teenagers at the time.

 

It was a very difficult conversation for me to have to admit to my children that I had not lived up to my own standards as a husband, and that I had failed at my promise to "fix" their mother and to protect her against the outside world, but they were surprisingly mature in their responses and very supportive of the planned split. And very eager to meet my then-lover, which also surprised me. They did ask whether their mother knew (about the affair) and I told them not yet, but that they did not have to feel it was a secret they needed to keep from her. They should say or not say what they wanted, as I would be telling her myself anyway. They decided it should come from me and left it to me to tell her, which later I did.

 

They have consistently told me, since the split (and during family counselling) that they were grateful that I treated them "like adults" and consulted them because they had some sense of control over what was happening, they weren't just passive victims wondering what was going on and whether they were to blame, as they'd felt during the previous separation.

 

How old were they? If you don't mind my asking...

[Silly_Girl]

What do you mean by "cutting that kid in half"??? Sorry if it wasn't clear, but I was saying that a 5 year old wasn't going to understand an affair. What they will be aware of, is the atmosphere that is created by the affair. They need help understanding what's creating the coldness, sadness, or whatever else the affair places in their envirement.

 

That - to my ears - sounds like they need to be told about the affair, only more gently. ?

[Silly_Girl]

I didn't see anyone telling you to tell them about sex. The worst I saw was 'mommy got a boyfriend.'

 

True. Ducksoup said it was fine to mention that having sex with a non-spouse is wrong.

[Silly_Girl]

You didn't tell her the whole truth, which I assume you didn't tell her the important parts, the real parts. You fluffed over it all.

 

At 9yo the most important part - the only important part? - is that mummy and daddy are separating.

[Ninja'sHusband]

BH, did you say somewhere that you were never going to tell your kids about the affair? I must have missed that somewhere...

 

Oh and the comment from turnera saying "I didn't see anyone telling you to tell them about sex" came up again. Turnera must have just scanned, because in the post she was responding to, I quoted Duck Soup telling me to actually use the word "sex" in the definition of "affair" to to my DD. Sentence #3 in the quote box: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/350084-what-should-children-told/post4303046.html#post4303046

 

Duck, I've read that one article you were championing before.

It recommends almost exactly what I told my daughter:

That said, children do not need details of an affair. Sometimes it can be quite appropriate to say something like, “yes, mom and dad are having some problems. This happens to most moms and dads at times. Don’t worry though. We are getting help.”

The difference being that we are divorcing.

This is not lying, especially when the children are young, not interested, will find out later when they are more ready to understand...etc etc.

That article is very big on *age appropriate information*, which is all I'm pushing for. I don't think BH or I are advocating lying or withholding life's lessons from our children. Age-appropriate info is not a mutually exclusive idea from truth telling and life lessons. I honestly don't think our ideas are that far apart like BH said, you just are a bit more extreme about what you'd say to a 9 yr old.

 

 

But this:

As for NH and I, I have a feeling that we will live with whatever mistakes we may have made while trying to keep our families together.

You don't have families which are together any longer. Your cheating spouses made sure of that in both cases. You are both divorced or soon to be divorced and by definition your families are blown apart, there is nothing that you can keep together.

made me laugh. You sound so desperate to disagree with every sentence either one of us write. Get a grip man. Reread BH's sentence....he's talking about the past. We aren't trying to repair anything with our wives anymore. He's saying...bahh..read it again:rolleyes: His statement resonates with me. I can live with my mistakes easy. I wasn't going to just walk out on my family all of a sudden...maybe it would have been the right thing...but I had never been in that situation before. I did the best I could and followed my top priorities. If I hadn't have done what I did, I would almost certainly live with massive pangs of regret that I didn't try harder to reconcile first. Now I truly know how far my wife was willing to take things and how much she could abuse my efforts at salvaging the family. I can walk away from that selfish lying twisted woman with much more of a clear conscience. There is no going back, I know who she is now...and it's not someone I can ever be with. I think BH is pretty much on the exact same page. Now it's all about the split family, and making that work as best as possible for our children's sake. Edited October 5, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[seren]

My son's father and I split up and divorced when our son was 4, there was no infidelity, I left because our parenting styles were miles apart. He was a disciplinarian and I found his parenting style to be way over the top, especially for such a little boy, no physical discipline but lots of shouting and so I left. After much talking and trying to fix things. Our son was told that Mum and Dad didn't live together anymore, but that he was still loved.

 

His father's contact was sporadic and unreliable, he would say he was coming and then not turn up. Our son was told his Dad was working and there was no bad mouthing, even though I thought his father was wrong and thought he was so, so out of touch with his son's needs.

 

Our son began to have problems, bedwetting, not sleeping, being very angry, usually at me, often at himself. he ended up with child psychology. Here in the UK we tend not to go the counselling, therapy route, to do so shows how far it had gone. One day my lovely boy bit himself and when I asked why, he said because it was his fault his Dad stayed away and that it was all his fault. I thought I had explained things so that he understood, obviously I hadn't and obviously he had made sense of his father's actions and rejection as being his fault. I explained it all, by saying that he was loved by us both, that while we didn't live together or love each other, that he was still loved.

 

Everytime my ex didn't turn up my son hurt some more, he then turned up with his new GF and her daughter, both really lovely people, but no preparation for our son, no dad and son talk to reassure him that the new child would replace him and it all went backwards again. there had been no time taken to rebuild his relationship with son, no time taken to slowly introduce the new GF and no talk of another child in the mix. I was left to pick up the pieces and watch my boy hurt and it was a dammed hard slog.

 

My ex then rang one day to say he was going to the States, he rang from the airport on his way out, no preparation, no reassurances for our son and it was out of the blue. My boy, yet again, felt rejected and replaced. Again I tried to lessen the blow by not saying anything against his father and by making excuses, I did this so my son would not be hurt and it was a mistake.

 

My son had no contact with his father until he popped up 20 yrs later, he offered no apologies to my son, no preparation, nothing, true to form he thought only of himself and what he needed to do. That for me is the key, the doing of something because it is right for the individual and no thought as to how their actions affect other, this is bad enough when an adult does this to an adult, to do this with a child is just so dammed selfish.

 

My son and I have talked about it all, I truthfully, and he said that he might have better understood if his Dad had been explained as a selfish person rather than all the excuses, the excuses just meant my boy felt, not good enough. I think maybe sometimes, we try to shield our children from things and in the shielding create another set of problems. My son is very grounded and of course, is a lovely person, but he does have trust issues and he does have a small circle of people who he trusts. I take some of the blame for trying to protect, but the majority is due to the sheer selfishness of his father and him not thinking how his actions had a knock on effect. I know this is not Infidelity, but an example of how trying to do the best thing can have other repurcussions.

Edited October 5, 2012 by seren

[waterwoman]

When H and I are completely certain what is happening, we might tell the children. Right now it's just confusion. I would like to say 'H and I are having problems but it'll be OK' but I can't be sure of that. I am not sure of anything. They know that they are all loved utterly by both parents, they know that H is being more loving towards them than he has for a while, that mum and dad are closer and more affectionate than they were, that is enough for now. And if anyone tells them anything, it has to be H.

[BetrayedH]

My son's father and I split up and divorced when our son was 4, there was no infidelity, I left because our parenting styles were miles apart. He was a disciplinarian and I found his parenting style to be way over the top, especially for such a little boy, no physical discipline but lots of shouting and so I left. After much talking and trying to fix things. Our son was told that Mum and Dad didn't live together anymore, but that he was still loved.

 

His father's contact was sporadic and unreliable, he would say he was coming and then not turn up. Our son was told his Dad was working and there was no bad mouthing, even though I thought his father was wrong and thought he was so, so out of touch with his son's needs.

 

Our son began to have problems, bedwetting, not sleeping, being very angry, usually at me, often at himself. he ended up with child psychology. Here in the UK we tend not to go the counselling, therapy route, to do so shows how far it had gone. One day my lovely boy bit himself and when I asked why, he said because it was his fault his Dad stayed away and that it was all his fault. I thought I had explained things so that he understood, obviously I hadn't and obviously he had made sense of his father's actions and rejection as being his fault. I explained it all, by saying that he was loved by us both, that while we didn't live together or love each other, that he was still loved.

 

Everytime my ex didn't turn up my son hurt some more, he then turned up with his new GF and her daughter, both really lovely people, but no preparation for our son, no dad and son talk to reassure him that the new child would replace him and it all went backwards again. there had been no time taken to rebuild his relationship with son, no time taken to slowly introduce the new GF and no talk of another child in the mix. I was left to pick up the pieces and watch my boy hurt and it was a dammed hard slog.

 

My ex then rang one day to say he was going to the States, he rang from the airport on his way out, no preparation, no reassurances for our son and it was out of the blue. My boy, yet again, felt rejected and replaced. Again I tried to lessen the blow by not saying anything against his father and by making excuses, I did this so my son would not be hurt and it was a mistake.

 

My son had no contact with his father until he popped up 20 yrs later, he offered no apologies to my son, no preparation, nothing, true to form he thought only of himself and what he needed to do. That for me is the key, the doing of something because it is right for the individual and no thought as to how their actions affect other, this is bad enough when an adult does this to an adult, to do this with a child is just so dammed selfish.

 

My son and I have talked about it all, I truthfully, and he said that he might have better understood if his Dad had been explained as a selfish person rather than all the excuses, the excuses just meant my boy felt, not good enough. I think maybe sometimes, we try to shield our children from things and in the shielding create another set of problems. My son is very grounded and of course, is a lovely person, but he does have trust issues and he does have a small circle of people who he trusts. I take some of the blame for trying to protect, but the majority is due to the sheer selfishness of his father and him not thinking how his actions had a knock on effect. I know this is not Infidelity, but an example of how trying to do the best thing can have other repurcussions.

 

This post resonated with me. The attempt to shield your son from reality failed; he was exposed to it anyway and might have better adapted knowing the truth sooner.

 

I can tell you that until mediation day, I had little fear about my STBXW's behavior influencing the children. While I am full in support of those who judge a wayward for spending marital funds on the affair and for sepnding time with their AP, these are relatively passive effects. Real to be sure but relatively passive. The fact that my wife also had sex in the living room when the kids could have easily come out of their rooms was also a risk that disturbs me but one that she got away with. I remember my wife's biggest regret from the affair was about the children. She may not have improved as a wife but she made a hell of an effort to be a better mother. And she really hadn't been a terrible mother; the kids have always been safe and well cared for.

 

But when my mediation finished and I discovered that another man has been coming to the house in the middle of the night when the kids are home, I was disturbed. I had hoped for this kind of behavior to be isolated to the affair, especially when I have the kids 3-4 nights a week.

 

If I see this kind of business doing any damage to the children at all, you can damn bet that I will deal with it directly (meaning with them as well as with her) and I won't be shielding anyone anymore.

Edited October 5, 2012 by BetrayedH

[waterwoman]

Blimey Seren! Your ex was an utter barsteward wasn't he? Poor lad.....

[Radagast]

How old were they? If you don't mind my asking...

 

Teenagers. 14 / 15.

[JamesM]

Pretty much everything I've been advocating in this thread has been reflected in the article in your last link.

 

Especially "never lie to your children."

 

This is one thing I agree with you on...."Never lie to your children." However, it is also necessary to remember..."Tell the children what they are ready for."

 

And this:

When should you tell your children?

 

If the affair is having an immediate effect on the children’s lives (such as in the case of separation or divorce) it may be necessary to inform them right away. If you are able to heal the marriage with minimum affect upon the children, it may be preferable to keep it a private matter between husband and wife, at least until healing has taken place.

 

Good quote. And I agree, this site suggests more openness than most I have read. I included it for this very reason to give you some support for your position. But please note the highlighted portion. It may be preferable to keep it a private matter at least until the healing has taken place. And the healing could take months and years. This supports what I suggested. Don't jump in and tell everything all at once because too many emotions are going to cloud the story. It reminds me of the quote I included:

 

Finally, while it might be hard to imagine, your husband’s feelings of anger will likely soften over time. It would be too bad if he sent a message to your children now that he couldn’t take back later.

 

And from the sounds of it, this happens too often.

 

This article also differs from your position as quoted here:

If you decide to tell, it’s best for you to sit down as their mother and father and tell them together. You should agree together in advance about what you will say.

 

Be sure and keep sharing with your children age appropriate. Kids, even teenagers, do not need to know details of an affair.

 

In other words, the parents should work together and act as a unit. One parent should not simply spill out everything and cause the other parent to lose his or her position as the parent. Despite the obvious stupid choice, the cheater still is a parent.

 

If you choose to share with your children share factual information only – no sordid details or emotional recollections.

 

The bolded supports how I have thought this should be told.

 

Like I said, read it all before jumping to conclusions. I think this link is very helpful for any parent struggling with this difficult problem. Even the cheater will still love his or her children. And since many WS look back with regret at their actions, they do want to repair the damage that they have done to the family in the best way for the children.

 

As you said, DS, unfortunately, it is not as commonly done for the benefit of the children as it should be. Too often one parent has too much anger and hurt to effectively sit down and communicate in a proper way.

 

And I do think that we can all agree that...

There is no set rule about whether you should tell your children or not. Each couple, each situation and each family is different.

 

There is no need here to denigrate anyone for the decision they made in the past on how to handle this.

[BetrayedH]

"Compartmentalization" is a frequent coping strategy for wayward spouses and in other situations.

 

It is a way that they tell themselves "what I do here, has no effect over there. I can bring my boyfriends over at night and if I am sneaky enough about it it will have no effect on my children. If I don't tell my husband about it, it didn't happen, and it doesn't matter. If I don't tell the mediator about it, it doesn't count. Even if it does have an effect on my children, so what, I am entitled to my happiness."

 

It is a form of being less than honest with onesself and with others. The problem is in reality, we don't actually have little psychological compartments in our minds, and our children don't, either. The sum total of all our actions and all our behaviors affect our children and those around us. We can't pick and choose which of our actions "don't count", just like if we are on a diet, ALL the calories count, even when we "cheat" on our diets. Even if we want to pretend we didn't sneak that Twinkie because no one saw us snatch it out of the cupboard, the calories still "count."

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all if your wife actually has convinced herself that she's a good mom and everything she's doing, including bringing over the bfs without telling anyone about it, is completely justified. She has already rationalized far worse behavior. She probably thinks that "if mommy is happy the kids will be happy, therefore, mommy should do whatever mommy thinks will make mommy happy." In your wife's mind it is all justified.

 

Now if you had told us that after your d day your wife had started intensive therapy, if you told us she wasn't currently engaging in deceptive behavior involving her sex life, if she was taking strict control measures to cordon off her love life/emotional life from exposure to the children--in other words if she had done anything to show that her priorities were the kids rather than herself while going through the divorce process--I would be a lot less concerned on you and your kids' behalf about the need for being as honest as possible with them.

 

Given all the references to written resources, it is my understanding that all the child raising advocates strongly advise that a divorced or divorcing spouse NOT expose the kids to new sex or romantic partners the way your wife has chosen to do so.

 

To me it is clear cut that your wife is engaging in seriously poor "parenting" behavior in doing this, even in the face of all that has transpired, and she isn't even being honest about it with you. She didn't even ask you whether you thought it was an acceptable idea for her to be doing this. As you say she has plenty of evenings to see her new bf when you would have the kids and they wouldn't be exposed to it.

 

We can talk in all the abstractions about honesty vs. deception until the cows come home and that's not going to solve this problem. Even if it's something you feel you can never or should never tell your kids, your wife is a piss-poor wife and she is acting like a piss-poor mother and at the very minimum YOU need to face up to that and acknowledge it, and that she likely has no desire to change, and that if she is typical of women following her glide path, her acting-out behavior is just going to get worse and worse until it FORCES some kind of a crisis directly involving the kids and which you will have to be ready to swoop into the rescue.

 

Yeah, I'm still processing this new info, TBH. I'm not interested in a confrontation with her and I can't control what she does. I would like to address it without it being confrontational; I would like to influence her without attacking her. Not sure if it is possible. Probably not. It would also give up my neighbor and I kinda like that I have a set of eyes over there. Those eyes may help me predict when I need to do something more. Bah. Frustrating conundrum.

[angie2443]

At 9yo the most important part - the only important part? - is that mummy and daddy are separating.

 

Do you think that a 9 year old is so ignorant, so out of touch with the family envirement that they don't know something is going on? This is the part that stuns me- so many here seem to think that you can put blinders on your kids and they won't experience or see anything happening in their own home. It just doesn't make sense.

[standtall]

James I don't really disagree with the general context that you are posting.

 

However, in this thread, specific posters who have real-life issues with cheating spouses or soon to be exes, are talking about real, on-going issues where it is plenty obvious to me that the spouses in question who did the cheating are still being completely selfish in their behavior, are not taking the best interest of the kids to heart, and seem to be using the entire dissolution process to their own advantage.

 

So it is a very one sided situation. The betrayed spouse has to sit there and basically keep their mouth closed, assuming the cheater will also play according to Marquis de Queensberry rules of modern parenting in a divorce situation. These cheating spouses aren't anything approaching remorseful and lacking any of the insight that people like you are trying to bring to this thread.

 

To live in a pretend fantasy world where the betrayed plays "by the rules" under the false assumption that the unremorseful cheating parent will also "play by the rules" is to live in a fantasy world that risks leaving the innocent children completely defenseless.

 

And so you end up with some strange man walking around in his jockstrap on Sunday morning at your ex-wife's place scratching his nuttsac in the presence of your children.

 

But the betrayed parent isn't allowed to voice any criticism or concern over that situation. That would be "denigrating" the other parent. That would be bringing the kids into the adults' "business."

 

Excuse me, but didn't the ex-wife bring the kids into the adults' business when she brought her f-buddy over in the kids' presence?

 

 

So basically you're saying in a thousand words, is that since the cheating ex is acting like a s*** and manipulating the children against the good spouse, then the good spouse should do the same thing? That is a very childish argument..."they did it so I can too...waaa". I don't believe that jumping in the gutter with them is in the best interest of the children, and that the good spouse soon shortens the gap between them, and that the children become a pawn so that the good spouse doesn't feel like they are being a doormat. Well, part of being a good parent is manning up and taking one for them no matter how much it hurts you. Your children...depending on their age.. are not as emotionally equipped to handle the hurt and pain of these situations as you are, and quite frankly, by sharing your pain with them, it is a cowardly way of dealing with it.