what should children be told ?

[elcklan]

Sure it's causal. To suggest it's not would be delusional.

 

If the cheater loved their children, why would they cheat on them in the first place? Why the sudden concern about their children? If the betrayed spouse were to enable the deception by lying to the children too, then they are just as guilty of lying to their children, as the cheater is guilty. So, what happens when the children learn about the deception of both their parents? What are you teaching your children when they find out their entire lives have been based on deception?

 

Each lie is one more in a tangled weave of deception. No thanks. Emotionally healthy, honest relationships create emotionally healthy, honest children who grow up to be emotionally healthy, honest adults.

If you loved me, you would not do this and that.. Really??

You don't understand one thing, you will not gain anything by telling your kids your spouse cheats. Anything. If man wants to cheat, he will. It doesn't matter you have three kids or no kids, they know or they don't. if he wants, he'll take them to his mistress. You have no control over this, and kids either.

It looks like all of you think you can win something by telling kids. But you won't, and what is left? Kids who know parents poor choises.

And you know, if I find out now that my parents cheated, I don't care. They are still my parents and I'll love to the end.

[BetrayedH]

Why say the words "higher road" and "vengeful"?

 

Why attribute nefarious motives to a different path?

 

Similiar to those that might imply that they have a better developed value system around honesty. Don't care for being judged? Stop throwing stones. I think I have shown some remarkable restraint up to this point considering the tag team judgmental diatribes I have suffered from you and Ducksoup. You want to have an intellectual debate about honesty with the children? Good. You want to continue to insult my fundamental values around honesty? Be prepared to hear about your vengeful, low-road approach to punishing your WS via your children. You've been non-stop for about ten pages now. I'm coming down to your level now. I would much rather hear from my intelligent friends on the subject because it is of current relevance to my real life but I am certain that most of them (including the OP) have long since grown overwhelmingly weary of such repetitive and judgmental nonsense.

[Decorative]

Similiar to those that might imply that they have a better developed value system around honesty. Don't care for being judged? Stop throwing stones. I think I have shown some remarkable restraint up to this point considering the tag team judgmental diatribes I have suffered from you and Ducksoup. You want to have an intellectual debate about honesty with the children? Good. You want to continue to insult my fundamental values around honesty? Be prepared to hear about your vengeful, low-road approach to punishing your WS via your children. You've been non-stop for about ten pages now. I'm coming down to your level now. I would much rather hear from my intelligent friends on the subject because it is of current relevance to my real life but I am certain that most of them (including the OP) have long since grown overwhelmingly weary of such repetitive and judgmental nonsense.

My level?!?

 

What on earth have I said to you?!? Judgmental diatribes? From me?!?! Where? I specifically told you I respected you choosing a different path.

Where am I throwing stones at you?

 

 

 

Wow.

 

And I don't punish my spouse. Shame on you for striking out at me in this manner. I have not done what you just accused me of, and then you strike out at my marriage and accuse me of using my children?!? Nice.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Decorative

[elcklan]

My level?!?

 

What on earth have I said to you?!? Judgmental diatribes? From me?!?! Where? I specifically told you I respected you choosing a different path.

Where am I throwing stones at you?

 

 

 

Wow.

 

And I don't punish my spouse. Shame on you for striking out at me in this manner. I have not done what you just accused me of, and then you strike out at my marriage and accuse me of using my children?!? Nice.

Punish punish, just won't admit no matter what.

You? yes you. Didn't you press like button under every Ducksoup's post?

Shame on him? if your strategy worked on your husband, doesn't mean it works on us.

[Spark1111]

Not terribly damaging considering that I can explain that you were freakin' six years old at the time. In fact, they might even respect my kind nature considering that I most definitely could have slammed their mother to them but had the good sense not to do it. They would see me as a wise individual and parent, just like they do today. They might even respect me more for waiting until they were smart enough to get the idea that it's a difficult ethical dilemma and I chose the higher road rather than the brutally honest one to which I was entitled. They might just see that I made a sacrifice for them instead of being a vengeful BS as I was entitled to do.

 

Age appropriate and very wise.

 

My children were teens and college age at dday, hence they suspected before I did.

 

No details were revealed, but much they sensed. If they had a direct question, I answered, BUT I NEVER said an acrimonious word about their father.

 

And they were witness to all the many steps we took to reconcile, IC, MC, little acts of kindness towards each other.

 

On more than a few occasions, when I felt triggered and felt the rage coming up from my toes, I grabbed the credit card and headed to the nearest hotel to spare them until the storm passed. They understood.

 

I could not control my emotions immediately after dday, when I moved out for three days to allow him to pack and move out.

 

I regret that deeply. My children saw me sobbing uncontrollably and I think that will be forever etched in their minds and it is one more heartbreak to bear. They also saw him cry too.

 

I grew up in a home where my mother grew bitter and was always bad-mouthing and complaining about my father.

 

In hindsight, I now realize he was probably a lousy husband but a loving dad.

 

He NEVER said a bad word about her and wouldn't allow us to complain to him of her. We always had to treat her with respect, as he did in front of us.

 

As adults, guess which parent we respected more for taking the high road?

 

Dad, hands down. He was a class act. And as we reached adulthood we all made up our minds about our parents' strengths and weaknesses.....

 

as all children will do.

 

Take the high road. When adults, your children will make their own judgements about character. You will probably not have to say a word. They will figure it out on their own.

[BetrayedH]

My level?!?

 

What on earth have I said to you?!? Judgmental diatribes? From me?!?! Where? I specifically told you I respected you choosing a different path.

Where am I throwing stones at you?

 

Wow.

 

And I don't punish my spouse. Shame on you for striking out at me in this manner. I have not done what you just accused me of, and then you strike out at my marriage and accuse me of using my children?!? Nice.

 

Decorative, I'm going to back off of my statement and I do offer you an apology. I took the time to review the thread and it's clear that I had you confused more recently with Threebyfate who has jumped on Ducksoup's bandwagon. I was not happy with her inference in post 189 about my value system and when you questioned the words in my response, I attributed the original comment to you. In fact, most of what you personally typed shows me that we are not far apart in how we think about this.

 

That said, you have also been on Ducksoup's coat tails on a few questionable posts. Specifically, you liked the following posts:

 

#24 Implying that protecting the child means that the parent doesn't value teaching honesty.

 

#33 Implying that protecting the child just makes you a liar, not a good parent.

 

#36 Directly calling NH a liar, an accomplice to his wife's destruction of his family, and a piss-poor example of a good parent to his daughter.

 

#54 Saying that my info was a pack of lies and that once I have admitted a willingness to lie to family members, I am not worthy of any credibility on anything of importance. Further, it characterized me as self-assured in my completely bizarre and counterproductive enabling lying strategies.

 

Don't want to be associated with a poster's insulting diatribes? Stop liking them so much.

[frozensprouts]

was kind of hoping that i'd get a few more answers about a situation where a child has already found out/figured out on their own that mom or dad cheated...( not from the parent, but from some other way)

 

is lying to them, saying it's none of their business or telling the truth gently the best option?

[elcklan]

 

Often it is FEAR which keeps people from wanting to learn the truth.

 

If you will notice a common underlying theme in this thread among the anti-truth advocates--they are almost entirely motivated by FEAR. Fear of what will happen if the kids find out; what their spouse will do. It's all fear-driven. The truth is scary, therefore, let's pretend it doesn't exist.

 

Martin Luther King Jr. said "The truth will set you free." I guess most people don't really believe that any longer?

 

Are you trying to say cheaters have fear? I don't think so. Schwarzenegger has even written a book.

Everything else what you wrote is pretty much nonsense.

By the way, how many languages do you speak?

[BetrayedH]

was kind of hoping that i'd get a few more answers about a situation where a child has already found out/figured out on their own that mom or dad cheated...( not from the parent, but from some other way)

 

is lying to them, saying it's none of their business or telling the truth gently the best option?

 

My opinion...

 

I wouldn't advocate actively lying about what they already know. I don't want to get into semantics here because I think you know what I mean. Don't gaslight your children.

 

I would suggest something between the 2nd and 3rd choices. You need to determine what is adult business (which is a line already crossed if we're discussing infidelity with a child). Simply saying it is none of their business gives no parental guidance on the subject at all. This pretty well eliminates option 2. Sounds like you are left with age-appropriate (or "gentle") truth. If we're talking about a reconciling couple, the couple needs to work together to determine the age appropriate message points and do it together to demonstrate to the child that the family unit is still intact, the adults are still together and making decisions together, and essentially communicate that while there was trouble, the adults have got this and there is no immediate need for alarm. The more reassurance you can provide about stability, the better. Also take note that (1) children always blame themselves and (2) you must not let them.

 

I will again note that this is my opinion based on my experience and education. I am otherwise done with defending my position because I think it has been stated clearly enough for those that wish to consider it. Those that don't are welcome to disagree but I won't engage this further.

 

Duck, you need a mental health professional. Honestly.

 

Frozen, my apologies. My t/j was unintentional; you obviously had a more specific question in mind. Is your situation/question current or are you just second-guessing a prior decision? If you are second guessing, I stand by my original support of Tara in that you should cut yourself a break. It is clearly a debatable subject (15 pages worth without a consensus) and you did the best you knew to do without the luxury of this very blurry hindsight.

[standtall]

Originally Posted by The dot

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but I'm going to reply to this anyway.

 

KIDS ARE NOT STUPID. I went through this as a kid, so I know. They know what's going on, they know if their parents have had an affair. They know what it means when daddy doesn't come home for two days, then arrives home with flowers and mommy seems angry to see him. They hear all the screaming matches that go on late at night after you've sent them to bed. They know what it means when daddy suddenly seems really awkward around mommy.

 

If you are being cheated on, having kids is all the more reason to LEAVE TODAY. Every day you stay and put up with it will cause your children to lose respect for you.

 

I read it..it all depends upon the age. Sure teenagers may know, but some 4 yr old does not. The young ones just see conflict as you stated. They don't need to know the details..it is just pure manipulation otherwise.

[Decorative]

Decorative, I'm going to back off of my statement and I do offer you an apology. I took the time to review the thread and it's clear that I had you confused more recently with Threebyfate who has jumped on Ducksoup's bandwagon. I was not happy with her inference in post 189 about my value system and when you questioned the words in my response, I attributed the original comment to you. In fact, most of what you personally typed shows me that we are not far apart in how we think about this.

 

That said, you have also been on Ducksoup's coat tails on a few questionable posts. Specifically, you liked the following posts:

 

#24 Implying that protecting the child means that the parent doesn't value teaching honesty.

 

#33 Implying that protecting the child just makes you a liar, not a good parent.

 

#36 Directly calling NH a liar, an accomplice to his wife's destruction of his family, and a piss-poor example of a good parent to his daughter.

 

#54 Saying that my info was a pack of lies and that once I have admitted a willingness to lie to family members, I am not worthy of any credibility on anything of importance. Further, it characterized me as self-assured in my completely bizarre and counterproductive enabling lying strategies.

 

Don't want to be associated with a poster's insulting diatribes? Stop liking them so much.

 

This is hilarious.

 

 

Thanks. I see how it is now. LOL

 

Way to reach to try and cover yourself for not reading carefully enough. Your response to this mistake of yours shows me how you see things. Combined with your unwarranted nastiness, I'm clear now on what you were trying to say. Thanks. LOL

Edited October 7, 2012 by Decorative

[BetrayedH]

This is hilarious.

 

 

Thanks. I see how it is now. LOL

 

Way to reach to try and cover yourself for not reading carefully enough. Your response to this mistake of yours shows me how you see things. Combined with your unwarranted nastiness, I'm clear now on what you were trying to say. Thanks. LOL

 

Fair enough. I guess you didn't like those nasty posts. Way to avoid taking any accountability.

 

See you around the boards.

[beenburned]

FS,

 

Your thread was very thought provoking for many people.

 

Since both of my children were very young when my d-day happened, and we had a successful reconciliation, neither of my children were ever told what happened while they were growing up.

 

However, when my grown D's first H left her for his then OW, I then broke down and told her about what all I went through when they were both young. It helped her greatly to know that I truely understood firsthand about infidelity, lies, and betrayal. We are now closer than ever, and are like each other's best friend and confident.

 

My grown son still has never been told. There were several reasons for this. 1: Him and his father have always had a rocky relationship (because he is so much like me) 2: My son waited until he was 33 to ever marry. (so his life has never been touched by adultery/infidelity)

 

If he ever needs my advise, I am always there.

[Decorative]

Fair enough. I guess you didn't like those nasty posts. Way to avoid taking any accountability.

 

See you around the boards.

 

I think if you had to stretch and go find posts that I liked ( because there were aspects of some things said in them that I agreed with, not not wholly), to try and cover your rear because you lost it and struck out in anger, that I would posit you are the one with an accountability issue.

 

Good luck to you. I really have no idea how to interact with this kind of behavior. And luckily, I am not the disingenuous party.

[BetrayedH]

I think if you had to stretch and go find posts that I liked ( because there were aspects of some things said in them that I agreed with, not not wholly), to try and cover your rear because you lost it and struck out in anger, that I would posit you are the one with an accountability issue.

 

Good luck to you. I really have no idea how to interact with this kind of behavior. And luckily, I am not the disingenuous party.

 

You know, Decorative, I hate for things to go this way.

 

I hereby offer you an unmitigated, full-on apology with no qualifiers. You were not responsible for what other posters wrote and it was wrong of me to attack you.

 

We got off on the wrong foot and I'll take responsibility for that. The fact is that I can tell you are a conscientious poster and that we would probably otherwise get along well. Give it some time and I think you'll like me.

 

I'm sorry and I hope that helps.

 

For now, let's stop hijacking this thread before we both get in trouble with the moderators.

[amaysngrace]

FS there's a lot of angry posters here on this thread who seem to be very adamant in thinking they're right.

 

It seems that maybe it isn't just you who thinks about the choices they've made in child rearing.

 

The bottom line is are you okay with yourself and the choices you've made? If you had to do it over again would you do things differently? If so, how?

[threebyfate]

Not terribly damaging considering that I can explain that you were freakin' six years old at the time. In fact, they might even respect my kind nature considering that I most definitely could have slammed their mother to them but had the good sense not to do it. They would see me as a wise individual and parent, just like they do today. They might even respect me more for waiting until they were smart enough to get the idea that it's a difficult ethical dilemma and I chose the higher road rather than the brutally honest one to which I was entitled. They might just see that I made a sacrifice for them instead of being a vengeful BS as I was entitled to do.

When you found out about your husband's cheating, did you enjoy the feeling of having lived a lie? Now imagine a decade or two decades worth of living a lie and you might begin to understand how telling children later or enabling the lies and deception of the cheater and never telling them, can cause serious issues later on in life when they find out. Oh wait, they'll never find out right? Just like you and all the betrayed spouses never found out...

 

And you know, if I find out now that my parents cheated, I don't care. They are still my parents and I'll love to the end.

That's because your beliefs surround enabling the cheater, where deceit is an acceptable way of life.

[Spark1111]

When you found out about your husband's cheating, did you enjoy the feeling of having lived a lie? Now imagine a decade or two decades worth of living a lie and you might begin to understand how telling children later or enabling the lies and deception of the cheater and never telling them, can cause serious issues later on in life when they find out. Oh wait, they'll never find out right? Just like you and all the betrayed spouses never found out...

 

That's because your beliefs surround enabling the cheater, where deceit is an acceptable way of life.

 

BetrayedH's children are 6 and 9 years old. He and his wife tried to reconcile for 8 months before he discovered a lie so great, they threw in the towel.

 

Now they are divorcing as amicably as possible to keep things on an even keel for sad children.

 

Why oh why people think these two younguns need to be told Mommy cheated on Daddy defies everyhing I know to be true about responsible parenting.

 

I do not understand the dog in this fight for sure.

[threebyfate]

BetrayedH's children are 6 and 9 years old. He and his wife tried to reconcile for 8 months before he discovered a lie so great, they threw in the towel.

 

Now they are divorcing as amicably as possible to keep things on an even keel for sad children.

 

Why oh why people think these two younguns need to be told Mommy cheated on Daddy defies everyhing I know to be true about responsible parenting.

 

I do not understand the dog in this fight for sure.

Did both of you totally miss my point? Spark, how did you and BH enjoy being lied to?

[amaysngrace]

Why oh why people think these two younguns need to be told Mommy cheated on Daddy defies everyhing I know to be true about responsible parenting.

 

I do not understand the dog in this fight for sure.

 

Wait and see how that goes. If mommy keeps putting herself before her children then by all means someone should tell the children that mommy has a problem so that the children don't falsely believe it's about them.

[William]

I'm going to enjoy unwinding this one.

 

I hope everyone is clear on what the children should be told.