what should children be told ?

[frozensprouts]

there is a thread re: infidelity and custody of children on here, and there have been some really good discussion points raised in it, but I don't want to take that thread off topic so i started a new thread...here goes)

 

do you think children should be told if mom or dad had an affair? what if they find out in other ways besides from a parent...what should they be told then?

 

I'm not suggesting that a child be sat down and given all the nasty details, but should they be told anything about the cheating? If the ask outright, should they be lied to to protect their view of the parent who is cheating?

 

In my own situation, I tried not to tell them...when they asked where daddy was, I lied and told them he was away with the army on field exercises again. I hated lying to them, but I also didn't want them to think badly of him, so i chose what i thought to be the lesser of two evils.

Turns out, they found out from my friend's daughter ( who was their friend) what was going on. She'd overheard her mom and dad talking about it one night after they thought she was in bed asleep, and she told my daughters. They asked me, and i told them I couldn't talk about it, but they knew I had lied to them...I wish I hadn't, but nothing can change that now. Part of it was that I didn't want them to think badly of their dad, and part of it was that they had enough issues of their own without adding his to the equation.

 

Looking back,I should have handled that differently. I think sometimes we ( in general) shield our kids too much. I also figure it's the same with arguing in front of your kids ( I'm talking about an argument, not a fight,nor insulting or being hurtful to one another, and definitely nothing physical). We do sometimes argue in front of them, but we also make sure they see us making up and being happy again. That way, they will see that it's okay for a husband and wife to disagree on some things and to argue sometimes...it doesn't mean they don't love each other or that they can't be together

[turnera]

Consider that, for a child, you and your spouse are pretty much their world, til they're about 12. EVERYthing that goes on with you two is the most important thing in the world to them. They watch you, constantly. They daily assess (subconsciously) their safety. When things start to go even slightly off key...they know. If dad usually came home at 6 for dinner and now he comes home at 8, they know. If he is short with them, they know. Each little item unsettles them a little bit more...but they don't know why.

 

IMO, once you get in a position where you are trying to end an affair, or are divorcing, the kids NEED to know some part of the truth. Kids have a contained view of the world, inexperienced, and when there's a gap, they fill it with an 8 year old's perspective, or whatever age they are. So when their world turns upside down and no grownup fills them in on why, they do it themselves.

 

I spilled the paint and daddy left today. So daddy's mad at me and left.

 

I wouldn't eat the green beans and daddy got mad. Now he's not showing up for dinner. Because of me.

 

There's an age-appropriate way to tell them these things. Kids accept a LOT more than we think they will and run with it - IF you do it in a matter-of-fact way and don't exaggerate the intensity. Yeah, just like Sally's parents live in two houses, that's what we'll be doing now. Not 'OMG I hate your dad and he has to go!'

[Decorative]

Consider that, for a child, you and your spouse are pretty much their world, til they're about 12. EVERYthing that goes on with you two is the most important thing in the world to them. They watch you, constantly. They daily assess (subconsciously) their safety. When things start to go even slightly off key...they know. If dad usually came home at 6 for dinner and now he comes home at 8, they know. If he is short with them, they know. Each little item unsettles them a little bit more...but they don't know why.

 

IMO, once you get in a position where you are trying to end an affair, or are divorcing, the kids NEED to know some part of the truth. Kids have a contained view of the world, inexperienced, and when there's a gap, they fill it with an 8 year old's perspective, or whatever age they are. So when their world turns upside down and no grownup fills them in on why, they do it themselves.

 

I spilled the paint and daddy left today. So daddy's mad at me and left.

 

I wouldn't eat the green beans and daddy got mad. Now he's not showing up for dinner. Because of me.

 

There's an age-appropriate way to tell them these things. Kids accept a LOT more than we think they will and run with it - IF you do it in a matter-of-fact way and don't exaggerate the intensity. Yeah, just like Sally's parents live in two houses, that's what we'll be doing now. Not 'OMG I hate your dad and he has to go!'

 

 

Exactly.

 

None of our kids were surprised when we told them, and three of them knew who the inappropriate relationship was with without us saying a word. They asked if it was so and so.

 

And all of our kids were relieved to have it out there, and I am of the firm opinion that it helped preserve their relationships with both parents.

[amaysngrace]

I believe that honesty is the best policy.

 

Although infidelity was not an issue in my marriage, my exH broke our vows in other ways by not fulfilling the promises we made.

 

Someone had to teach them that behaving badly has consequences. I saw it as an opportunity for my children to grow and learn.

 

I don't and won't lie to my children. They are people. Just little ones.

 

Before I even separated from my exH I asked them for their input. I asked them "do you like it better when it's just you guys with mommy or do you like it better when it's you guys with mommy and daddy?"

 

Turns out they knew we were leaving him before he did.

[JamesM]

Good answers.

 

Age appropriate responses with as much honesty as possible WITHOUT demeaning either parent.

 

It is understandable that the BS will have alot of anger. It is understandable that the WS will have alot of guilt. But down the road, the anger will diminish and the guilt will be better understood.

 

When we tell our children now what happened, then down the road we may regret it if we demeaned their father or mother because we wanted revenge for the pain caused to us.

 

Never forget...BOTH parents are needed by the children and BOTH should be held in as high regard as possible. If the cheater is put down too much, it will also hurt the authority of the BS. Children make their own opinions of a situation and draw their own conclusions. And just because father was the cheater does not mean that they won't blame mother for not doing better to prevent the affair. And just because father told them how mother had an affair and broke the affair doesn't mean that they won't decide that if father had been home more often, it would have been different.

 

Give them information without commentary and opinions.

[standtall]

Frozen...I agree with tuneras post 100%. It is all about their age and their maturity level. I also heavily edit and control what my children hear and see about the outside world on an ever day basis anyway..personally I wouldn't tell them 100% until they're over 18, and then let them make up their own mind on what to think. Besides, ask yourself what your objective is by telling them.. is it to explain the change in their day to day living situation, or is it to make your ex look bad/garner sympathy from your kids?..be honest now.

[turnera]

My dad left when I was 12. I heard that they argued too much and that he wanted mom to stay home and not work and when she wouldn't, he left to go find one who would stay home. Then I watched him go out and try to bang every woman who would have him. That skewed my perception of men, women, marriage, etc. I thought it wasn't safe to be a woman, that men just wanted a servant and a hooker to take care of them. I thought (and boyfriends taught me) that I couldn't say no to them.

 

It wasn't until I was past 50 that my mom admitted that he'd been cheating on her. And that, he asked her if he could come home and she refused.

 

If I had heard in my teens that my mom was so strong as to not let an abusive womanizing man back in her home, it would have completely changed my life. But they 'protected' me from the truth. So I made up my own.

[Ninja'sHusband]

My daughter was 9 when my wife had an affair and everything went to hell. We told her that we had "adult" problems that made it really hard for us to stay married and that these problems have nothing to do with her and are not her fault.

 

I don't plan on keeping my wife's affair a secret forever. I'm not decided when I would tell. If my daughter ever asked me I would tell her the truth... Well, let me clarify, if she is in her teen years and later and she asks I'll say Mommy had an affair. If she asks "why" before she's a teen, I'll probably stick to the "adult problems" answer and tell her she can ask again when she's older.

 

I think telling kids about stuff like this is dangerous since one of the worst things you can do is try to turn the child against the other parent. Even speaking of an affair is a way of painting the other parent as "bad". Then the other parent (especially in a divorce) will probably want to tell the kid of the horrible stuff the betrayed spouse did that supposedly caused the affair...then the BS will want to tell the kid why they did what they did and that people are responsible for their own actions...and on and on.

 

I think there's a certain age when they might be ready for some info, probably depends on the child and the situation.

[Decorative]

I think is am finding this thread frustrating, as I did the other one, because some people seem to be under the impression that disclosure of reality is a straight up manipulation of the children.

 

I don't understand that point of view. That was never ever in my mind, and most of the spouses I have discussed this issue with previously were far more concerned with emotionally stabilizing their children and stopping them from internalizing blame for family instability.

 

Not sticking it to their errant spouse.

[frozensprouts]

Frozen...I agree with tuneras post 100%. It is all about their age and their maturity level. I also heavily edit and control what my children hear and see about the outside world on an ever day basis anyway..personally I wouldn't tell them 100% until they're over 18, and then let them make up their own mind on what to think. Besides, ask yourself what your objective is by telling them.. is it to explain the change in their day to day living situation, or is it to make your ex look bad/garner sympathy from your kids?..be honest now.

 

 

Are you asking me from my own experience?

 

As you can read in my first post, lied about it, but they found out anyway ( form their friend and also because while he was waffling, I was at home with our kids...I took them out for a walk one evening when he was supposed to have been " away on exercise"( at least that's what I told my kids) and we happened to walk by a house and found he and him together talking out in her driveway...they knew for sure I had lied.

 

It's all water under the bridge now, as that was over 3 years ago and we have reconciled.

 

The point that I am trying to make is that often children are a lot more perceptive than what parents give them credit for...they know something is going on, but they don't know what. Again, I'm not saying that a child should ever be told that "mom/dad is out with their boyfriend /girlfriend" , but what is the appropriate thing to say? Depends on the situation and the child, I guess.

[amaysngrace]

My dad left when I was 12. I heard that they argued too much and that he wanted mom to stay home and not work and when she wouldn't, he left to go find one who would stay home. Then I watched him go out and try to bang every woman who would have him. That skewed my perception of men, women, marriage, etc. I thought it wasn't safe to be a woman, that men just wanted a servant and a hooker to take care of them. I thought (and boyfriends taught me) that I couldn't say no to them.

 

It wasn't until I was past 50 that my mom admitted that he'd been cheating on her. And that, he asked her if he could come home and she refused.

 

If I had heard in my teens that my mom was so strong as to not let an abusive womanizing man back in her home, it would have completely changed my life. But they 'protected' me from the truth. So I made up my own.

 

I'm sorry. Things were different then though. I'm not trying to side with your parents but people didn't discuss issues like they do now.

 

It was a whole different time period and they probably did think they were doing the right thing by keeping it from you.

 

It must have been hard being from a divorced home as well. That wasn't the norm either.

[angie2443]

Consider that, for a child, you and your spouse are pretty much their world, til they're about 12. EVERYthing that goes on with you two is the most important thing in the world to them. They watch you, constantly. They daily assess (subconsciously) their safety. When things start to go even slightly off key...they know. If dad usually came home at 6 for dinner and now he comes home at 8, they know. If he is short with them, they know. Each little item unsettles them a little bit more...but they don't know why.

 

IMO, once you get in a position where you are trying to end an affair, or are divorcing, the kids NEED to know some part of the truth. Kids have a contained view of the world, inexperienced, and when there's a gap, they fill it with an 8 year old's perspective, or whatever age they are. So when their world turns upside down and no grownup fills them in on why, they do it themselves.

 

 

You said it perfectly. It always suprises me when parents think they can protect their children from the truth when the children are living the truth each day. I agree with everyone else that things need to be kept age appropriate. A 5 year old isn't going to understand the word "affair". They need to be told in a way that they can wrap their minds around it.

[standtall]

A 5 year old isn't going to understand the word "affair". They need to be told in a way that they can wrap their minds around it.

 

Cutting that kid in half too? I don't think a 5 yr old should be told jack squat in any terms about an affair.

[Radagast]

do you think children should be told if mom or dad had an affair? what if they find out in other ways besides from a parent...what should they be told then?

 

I'm not suggesting that a child be sat down and given all the nasty details, but should they be told anything about the cheating? If the ask outright, should they be lied to to protect their view of the parent who is cheating?

 

I was not sure that the children ought to be told, as I thought it was unfair to involve them in their parents' messy business. But my then-lover felt strongly that they should be involved in a process which would affect them quite significantly, especially after the trauma they had suffered during an earlier separation. She suggested I speak to them and explain my situation, why I planned on leaving their mother, that this had nothing to do with my love for or relationship with them, and how this might affect them (and allow them to choose which parent they wished to live with primarily). And also to suggest, offer, and organise family counselling to make the transition easier. Given the very healthy relationship she has with her own children I decided to take her advice, and had the conversation with them. They were teenagers at the time.

 

It was a very difficult conversation for me to have to admit to my children that I had not lived up to my own standards as a husband, and that I had failed at my promise to "fix" their mother and to protect her against the outside world, but they were surprisingly mature in their responses and very supportive of the planned split. And very eager to meet my then-lover, which also surprised me. They did ask whether their mother knew (about the affair) and I told them not yet, but that they did not have to feel it was a secret they needed to keep from her. They should say or not say what they wanted, as I would be telling her myself anyway. They decided it should come from me and left it to me to tell her, which later I did.

 

They have consistently told me, since the split (and during family counselling) that they were grateful that I treated them "like adults" and consulted them because they had some sense of control over what was happening, they weren't just passive victims wondering what was going on and whether they were to blame, as they'd felt during the previous separation.

[turnera]

.they knew for sure I had lied.

And THAT is what it's all about - your kids need to know you won't lie to them. Learning about Santa Claus is traumatic enough. Learning you lied about why their life is falling apart is the worst.

[angie2443]

Cutting that kid in half too? I don't think a 5 yr old should be told jack squat in any terms about an affair.

 

What do you mean by "cutting that kid in half"??? Sorry if it wasn't clear, but I was saying that a 5 year old wasn't going to understand an affair. What they will be aware of, is the atmosphere that is created by the affair. They need help understanding what's creating the coldness, sadness, or whatever else the affair places in their envirement.

[turnera]

So are you saying you became who you are because your mother didn't tell you how strong she was?? And otherwise you would be as strong as your mother, you just needed details. And just past 50 you figure that out?

I saw my mom as weak, who lost her husband because she wouldn't be what he wanted. I always figured she would have taken him back if he would have deigned to want her. She/they never told me otherwise. So I filled in the gaps with what a 12 year old knew. That told me that women have no control over their lives.

 

I just figured it out because she only just told me a couple years ago, before she died, that she was glad she never took him back, that she enjoyed being single and not having to change herself for a man. Which is exactly how my life turned out.

[turnera]

All you have to tell a 6 year old is mommy/daddy has a boyfriend/girlfriend and it's not ok to have a boyfriend/girlfriend when you're married. So we have decided everyone will be happier if mommy and daddy live apart. But we both love you very much and both of us wish we could be with you all the time.

[elcklan]

I saw my mom as weak, who lost her husband because she wouldn't be what he wanted. I always figured she would have taken him back if he would have deigned to want her. She/they never told me otherwise. So I filled in the gaps with what a 12 year old knew. That told me that women have no control over their lives.

 

I just figured it out because she only just told me a couple years ago, before she died, that she was glad she never took him back, that she enjoyed being single and not having to change herself for a man. Which is exactly how my life turned out.

I don't think you would be different. You came to terms with how you want to live your life because of yourself, not because your mom told things you didn't know. There are a lot strong women and daughters lead different lives from their mothers until they realise it is not healthy. I applaud you that having bad experience with your father and boyfriends you were able turn your life the way you want. You are strong

[turnera]

Careful. Don't be so quick to blame it on your mom. It sounds like you probably got a relatively large dosage of muddled feminist propaganda along the way. Either that or you had a preference for bad boys at an early age. You can't blame either on your mom though.

I never blamed her for anything. She was free to tell me whatever she wanted. I just said that if I HAD been told, my life would have been different. But they dealt with what they knew back then. Back then, no one went to a psychologist unless you needed to be committed, either.

 

As for me, I was raised (according to my therapist) to be silent, to make sure everyone else was happy, and to do what I was told. Add in a dad who screamed if you questioned him, a mother who retreated into her work and a bottle for the rest of my childhood (but later got better after she moved away), an older neurotic brother who took over as my dad when I was 12 and convinced me that men were evil and horndogs and sex was even worse, an abusive boyfriend I finally left at 19, and a controlling husband for 30 years. I'd say I got a large dosage of messed up males messing with my mind.

[JamesM]

Sorry but this is way off base.

 

Both parents CAN'T be held in equally high regard if one of them cheats, destroying the marriage, and the other one is faithful--all other things being equal.

 

As parents they can be held in high regard by both when speaking to the children. This does not mean that one cannot take responsibility for screwing up the marriage, or the other cannot say that the cheater had an affair. But too often the angry one takes out his or her anger on the cheater by bitterly telling the children what an awful person he or she is. This will make matters worse, and if we care about the children, then making them hate the cheater will screw up their life even more.

 

I know you were a BS, but did you have children?

 

Children can't learn responsibility, values, and consequences for their actions if the parents aren't willing to teach them. It's hard enough that one of the parents is already a cheater/family-destroyer.

 

But they can learn from a parent who screwed up just as much as they can learn from a parent who did not screw up.

 

The other parent is forced to take on the job of teaching them right from wrong. Sorry but tough noogies--that's just another burden put on the betrayed spouse/parent.

 

No, both must take that responsibility. The cheater must own up to his or her mistakes and ask forgiveness of the children. He or she must explain what he did wrong, why, and apologize. If the cheater never does all of this he or she leaves the children with many questions and unsolved issues.

 

But shirking that duty by pretending the cheater needs to be held in some totally false and unwarranted level of high esteem is incredibly destructive to the moral and ethical development, as well as the emotional development, of the children.

 

I may have used the wrong words, but my intention is to say that both parents must remember the long term welfare of the children. And demeaning either parent will cause more psychological problems than already exist.

 

Oh and by the way the children will form whatever conclusions they want and these may even be unfavorable to the betrayed spouse, wrongfully so, but that still doesn't negate the betrayed spouse's duty to be the sole provider of truth to the children--since the cheater obviously lacks that ability entirely.

 

Even cheaters can learn from their mistakes. And even they can be good parents. For the sake of the children, both parents must be able to continue being parents....not just the BS.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Nine years old is certainly old enough to be told the truth.

 

"Mommy fell in love with another man, had an affair with him, and decided she didn't want to stay married to me any longer even though I wanted to try. An affair is where you have sex with a person you're not married to instead of your spouse."

 

Very simple, very honest, and non-judgmental.

Except it's way more complicated than that.

 

1. DD doesn't really know what sex is yet. (She's signed up for a children's class to learn in the next month or so though)

2. My wife did want to stay married, she didn't want to quit her class that OM went to.

3. Wife claims she wasn't in love with OM.

4. OM is married with kids

5. Read my earlier post about how now my wife will want to tell her POV about bad things I've done and how it's really an even playing field. Then I'll explain my POV on that...and it goes on and on.

 

 

That's why we stuck to the advice we got from both the books I've read and our counseling, which is to not get into specifics with younger children. These are problems that have nothing to do with DD, and we tell her that. DD has not asked for anything more w/regard to "why", maybe she doesn't want to know. If she starting beating down my doors for an explanation..then I'd have some more thinking to do. A teenager would certainly do that, which is why you have to take a different approach with them.

 

DD will learn the truth eventually, she will see the consequences of her mother's actions. The lesson won't be lost, it just doesn't need to be taught now when she's not even dating age yet.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[turnera]

Except it's way more complicated than that.

 

1. DD doesn't really know what sex is yet.

I didn't see anyone telling you to tell them about sex. The worst I saw was 'mommy got a boyfriend.'

[Decorative]

Live and let live and let your kids have a childhood without putting on them your problems.

 

Part of a parent's responsibility to their kids is making them feel secure and safe in their surroundings. Affairs cause upheaval in their homes- especially after discovery. There is no live and let live- there's a disruption in the family dynamic that children- who are egocentric by their nature and developmental path- tend to place on themselves.

 

It's a parental duty to help them navigate family life. And honesty- not meanness, not over explaining, and not with salacious details, is what helps them be secure.

[elcklan]

Part of a parent's responsibility to their kids is making them feel secure and safe in their surroundings. Affairs cause upheaval in their homes- especially after discovery. There is no live and let live- there's a disruption in the family dynamic that children- who are egocentric by their nature and developmental path- tend to place on themselves.

 

It's a parental duty to help them navigate family life. And honesty- not meanness, not over explaining, and not with salacious details, is what helps them be secure.

You think you make them feel secure by telling that mommy/daddy has boyfriend/girlfriend? Think about it again. And affairs cause upheaval especially after discovery? Why after? Because it hurt your ego? I just read how men become nasty at homes during affairs, what are doing BS at that time. Like somebody said oh she thought maybe job, stress or whatever. So for husband it is ok to be short with his kids if it is due to job stress. But once you know it is because of the affair, oh you gonna make a big drama. Talk to the kids as much as you can that it is not their fault. Mother should be capable to do that much for her kids.