what should children be told ?

[GorillaTheater]

The one thing that I have learned from this thread is that we are all probably more than a little glad that we get to raise our children and not the other guy with the differing point of view.

 

That, and the fact that there'll seemingly always be somebody who's perfectly willing to spend considerable time endlessly humping your leg if he or she disagrees.

[standtall]

I have learned that there is a certain degree of non-neutrality with the posters..which is to be expected. The ones who were betrayed are for advocating ratting out the betrayer to the children, and putting their own me, me, me, feelings first, no matter what it does to the children...and those who are outside of the situation...those who have no or little emotional currency involved..they ask what is in the best interest of the children. I think that some poster's betrayal taste so bitter that it clouds their judgement.

 

Now we know why judges, and other neutral, third party arbitrators are the ones that determine divorce and child custody issues...their lack of bias or emotional involvement of the cases they hear.

Edited October 5, 2012 by standtall

[waterwoman]

I think that is a little sweeping standtall. Not all betrayed spouses have reacted that way.

[Decorative]

I have learned that there is a certain degree of non-neutrality with the posters..which is to be expected. The ones who were betrayed are for advocating ratting out the betrayer to the children, and putting their own me, me, me, feelings first, no matter what it does to the children...and those who are outside of the situation...those who have no or little emotional currency involved..they ask what is in the best interest of the children. I think that some poster's betrayal taste so bitter that it clouds their judgement.

 

Now we know why judges, and other neutral, third party arbitrators are the ones that determine divorce and child custody issues...their lack of bias or emotional involvement of the cases they hear.

 

I think this makes me really sad. You haven't read anything I have written if you think this was about " ratting" out my spouse. My me me me feelings at the time? Would have been to pack my bags and run away to an island with my kids and never look back. But I knew that was not the right choice, so I stayed , and fought for the survival of my marriage and family. That's hardly the actions of a bitter woman .

 

My spouse and I are reconciled. He's the love of my life. We have worked really hard to put our family back together. I have never taken any action with him, or with my children, that could ever be described as vengeful.

 

You don't have to agree with what we did with our children ( my husband and I), but please don't paint with such a broad brush that you miss the effort and caring and thoughtfulness that went into it.

[AnotherRound]

Egad, I can't even read this whole thread bc it is too stressful. Children are NOT miniature adults - they just aren't. They can't process like we do, no matter how "smart" they are. Their brains are literally NOT capable of doing so yet. So much information is available on development - why is this even being questioned?

 

Nobody is saying don't answer their questions. But pulling them into adult situations that they cannot even process is cruel. Trying to make them an ally in adult conflict is cruel. They are children - again, not smaller sized adults.

 

I just can't with this whole thread. I'm so saddened that there are people treating their children like miniature adults. It is SO damaging, and while their brains are developing! It will cause permanent changes in their pathways, those changes will be dysfunctional.

 

For all that is holy, PLEASE look these things up before you say anything to your children that you cannot take back! I'm seriously concerned about the children in some of these posts - emotional harm is emotional abuse. Expecting them to carry adult issues, and understand them in an adult way is ludicrous - they are not physically capable!

 

This seriously frustrates me, but does explain why I work with so many children. It's so sad to me that there are such preventable things happening to them bc people are misinformed or refuse to do the research to see what the possible harm could be. Just look it up! Ask a professional! And again, for all that is holy, get your child and yourself into counseling - bc I guarantee your counselor is NOT going to advocate sitting a child down and placing all the adult cards on the table bc the child is NOT going to understand them, won't be able to process them, and will be overwhelmed trying to in an attempt to please the parent presenting them!

 

Also - what is the story of Solomon and splitting the child in half? I've never heard of it... I'm going to have to look it up now. (I'm seriously hoping that people seek outside guidance on how to approach this with children... for the third time, they are NOT small sized adults... agh!)

[standtall]

I think this makes me really sad. You haven't read anything I have written if you think this was about " ratting" out my spouse. My me me me feelings at the time? Would have been to pack my bags and run away to an island with my kids and never look back. But I knew that was not the right choice, so I stayed , and fought for the survival of my marriage and family. That's hardly the actions of a bitter woman .

 

My spouse and I are reconciled. He's the love of my life. We have worked really hard to put our family back together. I have never taken any action with him, or with my children, that could ever be described as vengeful.

 

You don't have to agree with what we did with our children ( my husband and I), but please don't paint with such a broad brush that you miss the effort and caring and thoughtfulness that went into it.

 

Sorry if it makes you feel sad. I do not speak in absolutes about human behavior and it appears that you and your husband are the exception here mainly because you reconciled. However, IMHO, the majority of the posters that advocate involving their children in the disclosure of the ex's immoral behavior appear to have other motives...that is my observation from a neutral point of view.

[Decorative]

Egad, I can't even read this whole thread bc it is too stressful. Children are NOT miniature adults - they just aren't. They can't process like we do, no matter how "smart" they are. Their brains are literally NOT capable of doing so yet. So much information is available on development - why is this even being questioned?

 

Nobody is saying don't answer their questions. But pulling them into adult situations that they cannot even process is cruel. Trying to make them an ally in adult conflict is cruel. They are children - again, not smaller sized adults.

 

I just can't with this whole thread. I'm so saddened that there are people treating their children like miniature adults. It is SO damaging, and while their brains are developing! It will cause permanent changes in their pathways, those changes will be dysfunctional.

 

For all that is holy, PLEASE look these things up before you say anything to your children that you cannot take back! I'm seriously concerned about the children in some of these posts - emotional harm is emotional abuse. Expecting them to carry adult issues, and understand them in an adult way is ludicrous - they are not physically capable!

 

This seriously frustrates me, but does explain why I work with so many children. It's so sad to me that there are such preventable things happening to them bc people are misinformed or refuse to do the research to see what the possible harm could be. Just look it up! Ask a professional! And again, for all that is holy, get your child and yourself into counseling - bc I guarantee your counselor is NOT going to advocate sitting a child down and placing all the adult cards on the table bc the child is NOT going to understand them, won't be able to process them, and will be overwhelmed trying to in an attempt to please the parent presenting them!

 

Also - what is the story of Solomon and splitting the child in half? I've never heard of it... I'm going to have to look it up now. (I'm seriously hoping that people seek outside guidance on how to approach this with children... for the third time, they are NOT small sized adults... agh!)

 

I did seek outside guidance. They completely disagree with your opinion, and as has been cited on here many times in this thread- there are other resources and literature that also support explaining in age appropriate terms. Not oversharing.

 

I am very peaceful with what we did, and how it turned out for our family. We made the best decisions we could in an absolutely chaotic period of time. We had professional help ( and all three professionals agreed, in addition to the literature we read, which has been cited here).

 

I can understand some people choosing not to disclose the information. I can also understand objecting to the disclosure being done in some of the ways that have been described on here ( and gently- those terrible ways were described not by the people who actually were in a position where they did disclose. Strawmen aplenty have been crafted and then toppled in this thread) .

 

But there are ways to do this and help your children thrive. And help the family heal.

[elcklan]

And I just had another proof that BS wants to get back at WS. Somehow intentionaly or not they think, that if they expose it to children, WS spouse will turn in to somebody they want them to be. But that won't happen in most cases, at least not a long term. And the kids need to live with that after all. It is programming to be victims of their parents, like see what kind of mother/father you have, that is their fault your life is like this now, their defect of character caused all of this. That is the truth, but will it make your kids smile more? They will grow up and have their own problems, who wants to put in their little heads how hard and unfair life can be? I honestly don't get that point of view.

[amaysngrace]

But there are ways to do this and help your children thrive. And help the family heal.

 

Yes and most experts would agree. Providing that they aren't skewed by their own life experiences or lack thereof and can actually be objective.

[elcklan]

Yes and most experts would agree. Providing that they aren't skewed by their own life experiences or lack thereof and can actually be objective.

You know, first infidelity messes you up to some degree, it depends on your self-esteem how bad you get affected. So you need to help yourself first if you want to help your kids. So instead that to start with yourself, you tell your kids and everyone your family needs help now, specially kids. Do you really think it will go on without effects? Kids don't choose parents, we chose to have kids and now we are gonna drag them through life experiences along us like preparing for what? A war when they will be adults? Or like somebody said tsunami?

[amaysngrace]

You know, first infidelity messes you up to some degree, it depends on your self-esteem how bad you get affected. So you need to help yourself first if you want to help your kids. So instead that to start with yourself, you tell your kids and everyone your family needs help now, specially kids. Do you really think it will go on without effects? Kids don't choose parents, we chose to have kids and now we are gonna drag them through life experiences along us like preparing for what? A war when they will be adults? Or like somebody said tsunami?

 

The poster I was speaking to sought professional help for the entire family. I don't consider that dragging anybody through anything. I consider it being wise to allow everyone to express their feelings about the situation so that it can be dealt with and resolved.

 

And any professional would agree that for therapy to work to its fullest potential, one must be honest.

[JamesM]

I am very peaceful with what we did, and how it turned out for our family. We made the best decisions we could in an absolutely chaotic period of time. We had professional help ( and all three professionals agreed, in addition to the literature we read, which has been cited here).

 

And that is what it all comes down to....each knows his or her family best. Each knows his or her children best. And the decision of how to handle the situation is in the hands of the parents.

 

Seeking outside objective help is very wise. Thinking that you know best without seeking help is unwise and could be very damaging to your children. But as has been said, get help from an unbiased source who has dealt with many similar situations. Listen to what they say and apply it to your own situation.

 

Quoting Duck Soup.....

To live in a pretend fantasy world where the betrayed plays "by the rules" under the false assumption that the unremorseful cheating parent will also "play by the rules" is to live in a fantasy world that risks leaving the innocent children completely defenseless.

 

One word is added that is not true in all cases by far...unremorseful. Many cheaters are remorseful and feel bad at what happened to their family. Many WS love their children and do want to make it as best as possible for them. But what happens when the BS begins denigrating the WS and bitterly using loaded language when describing him or her to the children, is that the children become more confused, frustrated and angry. And then the WS begins blaming the BS. And back and forth it goes. While I know it is difficult, parents that care about their children will set aside the differences to make this tragedy a little easier on the kids.

 

Duck Soup, I read about both of your divorces, and I understand where your attitude comes from, but I have seen and communicated with others who had adultery ruin their family. And their situation was much more civil. The parents could still be a unit as far as the kids were concerned.

 

And so you end up with some strange man walking around in his jockstrap on Sunday morning at your ex-wife's place scratching his nuttsac in the presence of your children.

 

This is just total bitterness. And a strawman that is total speculation. The same speculation could be used towards the BS. He invites women over to comfort him during the depression of losing his wife. So, the children witness a half naked stranger with her hands in her crotch.

 

But the betrayed parent isn't allowed to voice any criticism or concern over that situation. That would be "denigrating" the other parent. That would be bringing the kids into the adults' "business."

 

Words are being put into the points I made. The BS AND the WS should be factual and less opinionated when telling the kids. Read the link you liked. It said the same thing. And what happens if the bitterness felt is portrayed to the children and then the parents reconcile? This happens. Reread a quote I typed above about saying things that may be regretted later.

 

Excuse me, but didn't the ex-wife bring the kids into the adults' business when she brought her f-buddy over in the kids' presence?

 

Strawman argument. Most affairs are not conducted in front of the children obviously because they are conducted in secret. And if it is an ex-wife, then this implies that a divorce occurred. And if a divorce occurred, then this talk about mommy and daddy splitting would have occurred already. So, if the BS still has that much anger and cannot speak of this carefully to the children then he should not be speaking of it to the children, because his ex-wife is still their mother (I am assuming).

 

I hear your anger and bitterness and empathize with your pain after all of this time. Perhaps some counseling would help. And I might feel as you did under your circumstances. But since this thread IS about the children, then I personally would try to do what I could for myself so that I could keep the children as respectful of the WS despite the many weaknesses of her. On the other hand, I know that anger towards one person is often directed at someone else who is innocent. So if it cannot be done, then the less said is best despite wanting to hurt her as much as she has hurt you.

[JamesM]

Please explain the process by which you have concluded that a betrayed spouse telling one's children the truth, even a harsh truth, constitutes "manipulation" equivalent to the remorseless lying and excuse-making typically engaged in by an unrepentant and unrecovered unfaithful spouse.

 

Many assumptions in the sentence. Not all unfaithful spouses are as you describe. In fact, I would suggest that many are the opposite, especially when it comes to their children. And it assumes that the betrayed spouse has no part in the environment created which helped the cheater choose an affair. Speaking from experience in a nearly sexless marriage, it is extremely difficult for me to consider an affair because I have a strong emotional connection to my wife despite the lack of a physical connection. I would suggest that many affairs occur because of a weakness in the marriage environment. For a BS to tell the "harsh truth" (which invariably means that it is the truth as the BS sees it) is going to be a bit one-sided and hence a bit manipulative.

 

It is not a problem when we speak the truth, but it can easily be a problem as to HOW we present the truth. In reality, we end up speaking half of the truth, because we neglect to speak the part of the truth that shows our part in "the truth."

[JamesM]

Of course if one has a "street" perspective that telling the truth about someone else is automatically "ratting them out" and hence violates the "code of the street," then such a perspective is understandable. I don't share it, of course, and don't think children should be raised to fear the truth.

 

I don't think that telling the truth is ratting someone out. I don't think I said that. I do think that everything does not have to be said all at once, and some things never need to be said. An overall explanation is good without too many details. Many details never need to be said.

 

That's fine. Then the unfaithful spouse can have the conversation about with the child about why the marriage is ending in an age-appropriate manner, and not leave that obligation to the betrayed spouse.

 

I agree. However, I would go one step farther to say that both parents need to explain why and accept responsibility, even if the BS has very little.

 

I simply take the position that it is the responsibility of both parents to be honest with their children about why the marriage is ending. Of necessity if one of the parents is MORE to blame for it, then inevitably they must assume more of the responsibility for the ending of the marriage and break up of the family.

 

We agree.

 

Typically though it is the unfaithful spouse who is more motivated to hide the truth or find reasons to avoid it, so the burden of being the truth teller falls on the betrayed spouse.

 

I can see your point here. My suggestions assume that both parents are mature adults. The question is...how much really needs to be told to give a good explanation as to why the marriage is ending?

 

If both parents are responsible for the break up of the marriage, then they should honestly face up to that as well.

 

Agreed.

 

If you did choose to have an affair and your marriage ended because of it, I wouldn't expect you to lie to or deceive your children about the role you played in the end of your marriage. Certainly if you attribute your affair in part to the sexlessness of your marriage, you are free to state that opinion as well, and it will be up to the listener to decide whether that justification for your affair was sufficient from there point of view.

 

And I would expect to avoid deceiving them, too. Honestly, I don't know that I could tell the kids that their mother is to be blamed for the affair. I know how much they love their mother, and I truly want to see them keep that love and respect. I would hope I could explain why I chose an affair without putting her down.

 

But I guess my view is biased right now...since I do love her too much to really have an affair.

 

Why are you making the assumption that the betrayed spouse is going to be manipulative, or that I ever recommended manipulation?

 

Because as often as a cheater lies and deceives, a BS speaks bitterly of the ex and paints a mental picture of a person who destroyed the marriage and family when it was completely happy before. This is manipulating the opinions of the children and not allowing them to see the whole picture. i do not believe that it is always done intentionally, but I think it happens quite often.

 

Please explain how being truthful constitutes manipulation. You still haven't done that.

 

Actually, I think I did. It is HOW the truth is presented that makes "being truthful" manipulative. Simply giving the facts without commentary obviously is one way of being truthful. But it is also easy to "be truthful" and yet be manipulative by omitting parts of the truth or telling the parts of the truth that make the speaker more favorable.

 

The problem of course is that the cheating spouse has an automatic disadvantage in that many of them are completely incapable of presenting anything approaching "the truth." No wonder the cheaters don't want the kids to hear anything about what happened--they know they don't have a credible defense most of the time.

 

A defense is not needed with children, but an honest explanation and apology is necessary. A spouse who had an affair can be as truthful as the one who was betrayed.

 

Of course everyone laughs at this suggestion since they know the typical wayward is a remorseless liar.

 

Based on what I have seen on LS and from real life, I disagree.

 

OK then why don't you give us an example by telling us, truthfully, how you are primarily responsible for the lack of sex in your marriage?

 

I never said that a BS is PRIMARILY responsible for the affair. I simply said that for a marriage to breakdown, both parties must share responsibility. This does not mean both share equally.

 

And to answer the question directly, I know of some ways that I have contributed to the sexlessness of our marriage. I don't think it is necessary to share them here as it gets this thread off-track. (And your next comment will be...why have you not fixed them so that you have sex again? And my answer is...some are unfix-able, and I have tried unsuccessfully so far with others.)

 

We can keep going on about this, but my view is object and admittedly from one that is not from a BS/WS viewpoint. Yours is from a BS viewpoint. We may have to agree to disagree.

[Decorative]

To the poster, and I believe it was JamesM, who said that he believes the betrayed spouse contributes to the affair- please research the concept of the over benefitted partner.

 

Quite often- the partner who is giving less to the marriage is the one who steps outside the marriage, not the spouse who gives more and is more invested.

 

Shirley Glass explains the concept in the book " Not Just Friends", which should be required reading for marriages- whether or not infidelity has touched them.

 

There are a lot of myths about why people cheat, and a lot of them are just that, myths.

 

*sorry for thread jack, it's just my personal peeve to see people blaming the betrayed spouse for "creating an atmosphere " that leads a cheater to cheat. Marriages often break down because one partner is a hot mess with bad boundaries- and since we cannot be responsible for other people, it is useless to apportion blame to the non- cheater in those situations.

 

My marriage broke down. But not because of me.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Decorative

[HappyAtLast]

 

Be honest for once in your life and admit that you don't really know if you are the father, that's the real source of your decades/lifetime of shame and repression. The awful possibility that you have been afraid to confront for the entire time.

 

OK now it's time to own your lifetime of lying to those sons you claim to love and also give them a chance to have a simple cheap DNA test to determine if you are their bio dad.

 

My sons are my sons. I have loved them, sacrificed many year of my life for them so that they could grow up in a happy, loving and healthy home.

 

SHAME ON YOU for suggesting that they are not my sons. I certainly would never have any sort of a DNA test because I DON'T CARE at this point if they are biologically mine or not. My boys have had a very complicated relationship with their mother, primarily of her drinking issues. They are finally in a decent place - should I tell them now? That their mother stepped out on me and, oh, by the way, I may not be your father. Really? I am all the stability they have ever had.

 

Good Lord - what is WRONG with you? What sort of a person says the sort of things that you say to someone? I hope you are happy, I am no longer chuckling. You and your comments are just sad.

 

edited to add: I truly, truly hope that you do not have children. And if you do I certainly hope that you never suggest to them something like this. Your comments about my sons' paternity, just to insult me, are beyond sad.

Edited October 5, 2012 by HappyAtLast

[seren]

My son was 23 when he came home from work early and heard me and his Dad (his stepdad, but to him, his Dad) in the moments after he told me about his A. TBH, that there had been a reason for his Dad's distance, bad moods, total change in how he was to me and to how he inputted into the family was almost a relief. My son had noticed that I was crying more, there are only so many times peeling onions and just being silly can be believed as excuses for why his happy, strong Mum was crying can be believed.

 

Children, no matter what age, notice when there is discord in the family and no matter how hard people try, it is impossible for there not to be signs that not all is well. A lot of children think it is their fault, that they are the problem, that there is a reason is almost a relief, not just for the children.

After D Day many BS and WS are a whole heap of emotions, not many function in quite the same way. If the WS has left, unless there is a reason given to children, they will wonder if it is their fault, gossip filters through to children, many adults have conversations in front of young children forgetting they are like little sponges soaking up all that is said and not always the BS doing the talking. My H's A was local gossip, mainly because we were the, never could happen tho them couple, he was 23 as I have said, imagine if he had heard about it from a third party with all the Chinese Whispers that would have attached itself to the 'news'.

 

There are ways of telling truth's that protect both parent relationships with children, ways of age appropriate explanations and it should not be the BS that has to do this, the WS should be the one to explain. Children, if not told and if the WS leaves home get to see the aftermath of the A and the BS in bits, they can be so easy to blame the BS for 'throwing' the WS out and take sides, which no child should feel they have to. neither should badmouth the other parent, that isn't helpful either.

 

I would also add there is always, but always the bitter word thrown about in relation to BS, I hate it, much. Many AP could be labelled extremely bitter and vengeful if 'thrown under the bus' (awful term), it isn't always bitterness, but hurt. I understood why the OW was hurt and lashed out and still does some 5 years later, not bitter, but hurt. Stereotyping helps no one.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I'd like to ask a question and share a bit of opinion. I mean it respectfully and hope that it's taken as such.

 

Does no one else think that it's not any of a child's business to be involved in grown up discussions or circumstances?

 

I grew up in a home where grown up stuff is exactly that, grown up stuff. Granted, my parents are happily married, but finances, bills, the circumstances behind a family members death due to drugs, were not something that was shared with us at the time. We were given the basics, it was explained why we didn't need to worry and we were allowed to be children, with the worries of children. What kind of cookies were in the pantry, whether to sleep over this friend or that friends, should I play baseball or soccer, what to wear to the dance on Friday.

 

Why does no one think that saying "Mom and Dad are having some problems, none of it is because we don't love you, but because of that we have been fighting and we can no longer live together/are going to be having a lot of private discussions/dealing with that for a while. We want you to know we love you, it isn't anything YOU need to worry about. You will always be loved by both of us and be taken care of. When you are older and it's appropriate for me to discuss this with you we will. For now, we are your parents, and this isn't anything you need to be involved in." is an appropriate response?

 

I would really like some opinions on why that's a BAD approach. Life is shaped by experiences, trying to explain infidelity to a child is like trying to explain sound to someone. If you don't have a frame of reference you'll never be able to make it comprehendable.

 

There are many of us on this thread who share your opinion. What you suggested is pretty close to what we told our daughter.

 

Here's my 1st post on the subject, a lot of debate went back and forth...

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/350084-what-should-children-told#post4302462

[BetrayedH]

I'd like to ask a question and share a bit of opinion. I mean it respectfully and hope that it's taken as such.

 

Does no one else think that it's not any of a child's business to be involved in grown up discussions or circumstances?

 

I grew up in a home where grown up stuff is exactly that, grown up stuff. Granted, my parents are happily married, but finances, bills, the circumstances behind a family members death due to drugs, were not something that was shared with us at the time. We were given the basics, it was explained why we didn't need to worry and we were allowed to be children, with the worries of children. What kind of cookies were in the pantry, whether to sleep over this friend or that friends, should I play baseball or soccer, what to wear to the dance on Friday.

 

Why does no one think that saying "Mom and Dad are having some problems, none of it is because we don't love you, but because of that we have been fighting and we can no longer live together/are going to be having a lot of private discussions/dealing with that for a while. We want you to know we love you, it isn't anything YOU need to worry about. You will always be loved by both of us and be taken care of. When you are older and it's appropriate for me to discuss this with you we will. For now, we are your parents, and this isn't anything you need to be involved in." is an appropriate response?

 

I would really like some opinions on why that's a BAD approach. Life is shaped by experiences, trying to explain infidelity to a child is like trying to explain sound to someone. If you don't have a frame of reference you'll never be able to make it comprehendable.

 

I think I took plenty of flak here for taking pretty much that exact position.

 

I think that BSs become very offended by dishonesty. Comes with the territory. I think the seasoned BSs find lying to have been more damaging than the affair itself. When it's lying to our children, it's pretty tough to defend.

 

I have done my best to see past the impacts/influence of the affair and to truly put the children first. It is difficult to weigh honesty vs minimizing trauma.

[Decorative]

I think I took plenty of flak here for taking pretty much that exact position.

 

I think that BSs become very offended by dishonesty. Comes with the territory. I think the seasoned BSs find lying to have been more damaging than the affair itself. When it's lying to our children, it's pretty tough to defend.

 

I have done my best to see past the impacts/influence of the affair and to truly put the children first. It is difficult to weigh honesty vs minimizing trauma.

 

To be fair? I have been a goody two shoes my entire life and have always been offended by dishonesty. my spouse knew this about me, so it was an additional risk he chose to take. It wasn't a new development for me.

 

But I do agree- it is very difficult to navigate this situation. I chose differently than you did- but I also have done, with my spouse, the very best I could to put my children first.

[elcklan]

Funny, just heard this today, but wanted to post it here too. Really liked how Dwyane Wade is handling the situation.

Dwyane Wade ex-wife Siohvaughn Funches-Wade tells her side of the story | abc7chicago.com

[threebyfate]

do you think children should be told if mom or dad had an affair?

Of course they should be told. No need to protect the reputation of a spouse who cheated on the children too.

[elcklan]

Of course they should be told. No need to protect the reputation of a spouse who cheated on the children too.

Haaaaa. Sure, again kids are tools for parents. Now to show spouses reputation. Next time to trap partner, or save relationship or make it better, or threaten they won't get kids or whatever. What would you do without children, what would help you with your manipulation or to get back at WS? And then in some cases those spouses after telling kids about cheating stays with cheaters. Ain't life ironic

[elcklan]

Her response was one sentence......just one.

 

Your response to her contained all the above, which she said absolutely nothing about. Huh?

Strong statement with no consideration about kids. Gave more examples how some parents don't care about kids, instead of themselves.

[threebyfate]

Strong statement with no consideration about kids. Gave more examples how some parents don't care about kids, instead of themselves.

Right. It's considerate to lie to the children, much like the cheater lied to his/her family, children inclusive.

 

As far as the balance of red herrings, they need to be flushed down the toilet since they have absolutely nothing to do with my post.