New insights on marriage

[strongnrelaxed]

I just had an epiphany recently. I have almost completely changed how I see marriage. Believe it - it's true. To wit:

 

As much as I have expressed my disdain (ok it is complete disgust) for marriage - I now get it.

 

Between a man and a woman, the really important things (the relationship, babies, friendship, common values, shared experiences, trust honesty, etc) are one thing. The marriage contract is a completely different thing.

 

It is a legal document. Whether one gets married in the church or not or in Vegas. It is a legal construct.

 

Anyone who wishes to enter into such a contract is clearly free to do so. In fact I encourage every man to do his homework before getting married - read men's blogs. Find websites that allow men to freely express their concerns about marriage and divorce. Check the divorce laws in your state and consult with a lawyer.

 

If after all that it still makes sense, then by all means, go for it.

 

We spend more time studying for a driver's license than for a marriage license.

[yessy21]

marriage should be about two people that have had a relationship for a period of more than 7 years and live together. the paper is meaningless. actually you are considered married if you live together for more than 6 years in the states.

[pink_sugar]

marriage should be about two people that have had a relationship for a period of more than 7 years and live together. the paper is meaningless. actually you are considered married if you live together for more than 6 years in the states.

 

Actually, very few states have common law marriage anymore. Insurance companies, for example, do not consider your boyfriend/girlfriend of 7 years eligible to be added onto his/her insurance as a dependent. BUT you may be entitled to alimony if you live together 5 or more years.

[strongnrelaxed]

Actually, very few states have common law marriage anymore. Insurance companies, for example, do not consider your boyfriend/girlfriend of 7 years eligible to be added onto his/her insurance as a dependent. BUT you may be entitled to alimony if you live together 5 or more years.

 

Ugg. I am shocked that this whole scam is not blatantly obvious to everyone by now. Here it is in a nutshell - marriage is a business. It is a contract. It is a source of revenue for all sorts of entities. The church, state, pastors, lawyers, courts, municipalities, caterers, cake makers, wedding dress makers and designers, the tuxedo folks, the diamond industry...whew, there are many others but my fingers are getting tired.

 

This is a huge money making enterprise. This is the purpose of state sponsored marriage. Marriage has virtually nothing to do with a real relationship. I have life long friends to whom I can turn and depend on and we have no contracts. I have no contracts with my family or neighbors either.

 

Why have one with the person closest to you then?

 

 

Common law marriages made sense as a way to protect women who had their men leave after a LTR with children. This no longer makes sense because to costs the courts too much money and lawyers do not make enough money. If there were money there, you know damn well that there would be more cases in court.

 

The insurance companies won't support this because it does not make economic sense.

 

Does anyone else see this?

[sweetjasmine]

We spend more time studying for a driver's license than for a marriage license.

 

Speak for yourself.

 

If people don't know what they're getting into, it's their own fault.

[RiverRunning]

Yeah, common-law marriage is pretty rare in the states. I can't get one in my state. My fiancee works for a very prominent and liberal university - yet as his domestic partner, I'm only entitled to 6 free short-term counseling sessions with university psychiatrists. That's literally the only domestic partner benefit.

 

People do need to do their homework, absolutely, before they marry: men and women included. They need to know what is at stake.

 

They should hopefully spend at least a few years together before they start planning their wedding. Those "things to do before you get married" lists generally about cover it: go on vacation together/travel together, work on a project together (setting something up), discuss the important 'what ifs' ("What if we have a gay kid? In which religion will we raise our kids? What happens if one of us gets a terminal illness?").

 

The fact is... a lot of people don't do that. One of our good friends is 48 and a year-and-a-half ago, he started a LDR with a 32-year-old woman. They're both basically desperate to get hitched and start a family (first marriage for both). She JUST got a job in our area, and moved in with him, several hours away from her hometown. They got engaged after SIX MONTHS of long-distance dating. They will be married around their 2 year anniversary.

 

As much as I am loathe to say it, because I want my friend to be happy, I do not see his marriage working out. They barely know each other, they got engaged basically to hurry up and have kids, etc. Sure, that works out for some people: but the majority of the time, it's a recipe for disaster.

 

And there are a LOT of relationships like this contributing to the divorce rate. I am surrounded by a lot of couples who dated for at least a few years, lived together for at least a year before marrying, and married around their mid-20s. The vast, vast majority of those couples are still married, and even happily (at least from appearances. Some outright say so and seem it, so I have no reason to question it).

 

The couples who didn't make it? The ones who were very young and/or sexually inexperienced (got married in teens/early 20s). Married for kids, financial support, to have sex. Had money troubles going into the marriage (unstable jobs/no job/low-paying jobs). Had limited education going into marriage. Came from abusive households. Had a history of an unstable relationship (abuse, cheating, immaturity, etc.).

 

 

Most of the couples I've seen divorcing...honestly, it was a no brainer. The things they struggled with before marriage didn't go away after marriage, and the problems that surfaced after marriage were...usually spotted even when they were dating (i.e., money problems. "He manages his money poorly..." doesn't become an issue until they marry and live together and see it's a BIG problem, because now she has to deal with it).

 

Blindsiding happens. I do feel for people who are cheated on.

 

I do wish that premarital counseling were mandatory to obtain a marriage license...just as I wish that parenting classes were part of seeing an OBGYN during pregnancy.

 

You know, I went through some very hard times during the first 2 years of my relationship. I had to work HARD at it. The last 2 have been, as a result of that work and pain, very fruitful. A lot of people wind up marrying before they hit that first big rough patch, and then they're clueless as to what to do. They wind up divorcing.

 

I remember how starstruck my best friend was when he met his boyfriend. At the time, I was having more problems in my relationship. I kept my mouth shut, but I was thinking, "Wait until he gets a few years in. He will see."

 

Sure enough, he did. They are going through very hard times right now. I feel for them, but I know that this is just a part of being in a relationship, and they will have to learn and struggle through it (to an extent: no one should spend their lives being completely miserable).

 

We'll have spent about half a decade together when we marry, and 2 years living together (been living together 1 1/2 years). We know what we're getting into. We took our time, traveled, and realized that a lot of marriage is the daily grind: bills, work, housework, snuggling to watch TV

 

I am grateful now for the difficult times we had in the past. I couldn't imagine marrying first, THEN finding it all out.

 

My FSIL is one of those types. They were long-distance for 4 years: got engaged after 3 years together, married on their 4 year anniversary. The first 2 years of their marriage were very rocky. tbh, FBIL is a complete jerk. He will insult her all of the time, disguising it as a 'joke.' He corrects her all the time, too.

 

Some of her posts on Facebook just lead me to believe she feels stuck with him, especially now that they're having a baby. She'll always say things like, "We've had some hard times..." or "It hasn't always been easy..." she's one of those types to flood her online presence with declarations of how in love she is and how awesome her husband is. She is 26.

 

I'm not buying it.

 

You can avoid so much trouble just by REALLY knowing your partner before you walk down the aisle. And I don't see how that can really be accomplished with an LDR.

[strongnrelaxed]

Speak for yourself.

 

If people don't know what they're getting into, it's their own fault.

 

Did you really study and take a test before getting married? I know some churches require this, but having done this I know for certain that they do not divulge the penalties for breaking the contract (in other words the true terms and conditions).

 

The very problem, some would argue, with marriage today is (among other things) a complete disconnect between the fantasy and reality of the arrangement. Sure, many other factors creep in, but I can't help but go back to the very first official binding act - the signing of the marriage "license"

 

We get more honesty from a cell phone carrier. Somehow, women love this idea and defend it quite stridently. Men are usually silent or nod in agreement for fear of raising the ire of their partners.

[Hawaii50]

Exactly.. an incorporation, for the tax and retirement benefits. >>looks around<<

[strongnrelaxed]

Yeah, common-law marriage is pretty rare in the states. I can't get one in my state. My fiancee works for a very prominent and liberal university - yet as his domestic partner, I'm only entitled to 6 free short-term counseling sessions with university psychiatrists. That's literally the only domestic partner benefit.

 

People do need to do their homework, absolutely, before they marry: men and women included. They need to know what is at stake.

 

They should hopefully spend at least a few years together before they start planning their wedding. Those "things to do before you get married" lists generally about cover it: go on vacation together/travel together, work on a project together (setting something up), discuss the important 'what ifs' ("What if we have a gay kid? In which religion will we raise our kids? What happens if one of us gets a terminal illness?").

 

The fact is... a lot of people don't do that. One of our good friends is 48 and a year-and-a-half ago, he started a LDR with a 32-year-old woman. They're both basically desperate to get hitched and start a family (first marriage for both). She JUST got a job in our area, and moved in with him, several hours away from her hometown. They got engaged after SIX MONTHS of long-distance dating. They will be married around their 2 year anniversary.

 

As much as I am loathe to say it, because I want my friend to be happy, I do not see his marriage working out. They barely know each other, they got engaged basically to hurry up and have kids, etc. Sure, that works out for some people: but the majority of the time, it's a recipe for disaster.

 

And there are a LOT of relationships like this contributing to the divorce rate. I am surrounded by a lot of couples who dated for at least a few years, lived together for at least a year before marrying, and married around their mid-20s. The vast, vast majority of those couples are still married, and even happily (at least from appearances. Some outright say so and seem it, so I have no reason to question it).

 

The couples who didn't make it? The ones who were very young and/or sexually inexperienced (got married in teens/early 20s). Married for kids, financial support, to have sex. Had money troubles going into the marriage (unstable jobs/no job/low-paying jobs). Had limited education going into marriage. Came from abusive households. Had a history of an unstable relationship (abuse, cheating, immaturity, etc.).

 

 

Most of the couples I've seen divorcing...honestly, it was a no brainer. The things they struggled with before marriage didn't go away after marriage, and the problems that surfaced after marriage were...usually spotted even when they were dating (i.e., money problems. "He manages his money poorly..." doesn't become an issue until they marry and live together and see it's a BIG problem, because now she has to deal with it).

 

Blindsiding happens. I do feel for people who are cheated on.

 

I do wish that premarital counseling were mandatory to obtain a marriage license...just as I wish that parenting classes were part of seeing an OBGYN during pregnancy.

 

You know, I went through some very hard times during the first 2 years of my relationship. I had to work HARD at it. The last 2 have been, as a result of that work and pain, very fruitful. A lot of people wind up marrying before they hit that first big rough patch, and then they're clueless as to what to do. They wind up divorcing.

 

I remember how starstruck my best friend was when he met his boyfriend. At the time, I was having more problems in my relationship. I kept my mouth shut, but I was thinking, "Wait until he gets a few years in. He will see."

 

Sure enough, he did. They are going through very hard times right now. I feel for them, but I know that this is just a part of being in a relationship, and they will have to learn and struggle through it (to an extent: no one should spend their lives being completely miserable).

 

We'll have spent about half a decade together when we marry, and 2 years living together (been living together 1 1/2 years). We know what we're getting into. We took our time, traveled, and realized that a lot of marriage is the daily grind: bills, work, housework, snuggling to watch TV

 

I am grateful now for the difficult times we had in the past. I couldn't imagine marrying first, THEN finding it all out.

 

My FSIL is one of those types. They were long-distance for 4 years: got engaged after 3 years together, married on their 4 year anniversary. The first 2 years of their marriage were very rocky. tbh, FBIL is a complete jerk. He will insult her all of the time, disguising it as a 'joke.' He corrects her all the time, too.

 

Some of her posts on Facebook just lead me to believe she feels stuck with him, especially now that they're having a baby. She'll always say things like, "We've had some hard times..." or "It hasn't always been easy..." she's one of those types to flood her online presence with declarations of how in love she is and how awesome her husband is. She is 26.

 

I'm not buying it.

 

You can avoid so much trouble just by REALLY knowing your partner before you walk down the aisle. And I don't see how that can really be accomplished with an LDR.

 

Well put River. I agree - mandatory parenting classes should be required. If anything above all else - the most important thing a human being can do is to give birth to another human being. Yet there is absolutely no assistance whatsoever. We only seem to step in when it goes all wrong and the justice system must intervene.

 

Thanks for the great response.

[Silly_Girl]

Did you really study and take a test before getting married? I know some churches require this, but having done this I know for certain that they do not divulge the penalties for breaking the contract (in other words the true terms and conditions).

 

The very problem, some would argue, with marriage today is (among other things) a complete disconnect between the fantasy and reality of the arrangement. Sure, many other factors creep in, but I can't help but go back to the very first official binding act - the signing of the marriage "license"

 

We get more honesty from a cell phone carrier. Somehow, women love this idea and defend it quite stridently. Men are usually silent or nod in agreement for fear of raising the ire of their partners.

 

We're planning our wedding, and it's happened really fast. We're both extremely earnest about the prospect of marriage and that we are building the foundations of something that will hopefully last 30/40+ years.

 

We think we're more compatible than most people we know (bet EVERYONE says that ). Our key areas of focus are:

Parenting attitude/style

Approach to life (career/stress/leisure/balance)

Money, long and short term goals

Sex

Communication (frequency/method/style)

Health and diet

 

We have the pre-nup drawn up. The wills are somewhat complex and taking longer. We're booked on a pre-marital preparation course early next year.

 

Funnily enough, you mention the 'licence'... We'll be popping along to the local town hall together one day and doing that bit casually, because we're having a (non-legal) humanist ceremony on the day. So it will very much feel like a legal transaction at that point, without the hearts and flowers and fluffy stuff of the wedding day.

[MonsterMash]

Ugg. I am shocked that this whole scam is not blatantly obvious to everyone by now. Here it is in a nutshell - marriage is a business. It is a contract. It is a source of revenue for all sorts of entities. The church, state, pastors, lawyers, courts, municipalities, caterers, cake makers, wedding dress makers and designers, the tuxedo folks, the diamond industry...whew, there are many others but my fingers are getting tired.

 

This is a huge money making enterprise. This is the purpose of state sponsored marriage. Marriage has virtually nothing to do with a real relationship. I have life long friends to whom I can turn and depend on and we have no contracts. I have no contracts with my family or neighbors either.

 

Why have one with the person closest to you then?

 

 

Common law marriages made sense as a way to protect women who had their men leave after a LTR with children. This no longer makes sense because to costs the courts too much money and lawyers do not make enough money. If there were money there, you know damn well that there would be more cases in court.

 

The insurance companies won't support this because it does not make economic sense.

 

Does anyone else see this?

 

Marriage is nothing but legalized prostitution. Hiring an occasional escort and a maid is much cheaper.

 

What people don't see is marriage is advantageous to everyone except the man.

[Mme. Chaucer]

My marriage is very advantageous to "the man." And to me, as well.

 

OP seems incapable of understanding that his "epiphany" is not everybody else's reality.

 

It's good that he has solidified his own position on marriage. He's most definitely not husband material. Win/win.

[sweetjasmine]

Did you really study and take a test before getting married? I know some churches require this, but having done this I know for certain that they do not divulge the penalties for breaking the contract (in other words the true terms and conditions).

 

You originally mentioned "study" not "take a test." I don't belong to any church, but I do know how to read law and was interested enough to read the relevant laws in my state. I'm familiar with the "penalties for breaking the contract" and the "true terms and conditions" because I don't like making major, life-changing decisions without reading what is written in black and white in front of my face. I'm the type of person who reads whatever's put in front of me carefully before signing anything. So going into this marriage, I'm already aware of how my state handles the major issues that come up with a separation, and I know, for example, that the advanced degree I plan to earn while we're married will be considered a marital asset in the event of a divorce. No, you can't predict everything, and laws aren't set in stone, but it's important enough that both of us have taken the time to make sure we understand what this really is.

 

The very problem, some would argue, with marriage today is (among other things) a complete disconnect between the fantasy and reality of the arrangement. Sure, many other factors creep in, but I can't help but go back to the very first official binding act - the signing of the marriage "license"

 

The very problem is that people don't seem too fond of critical thinking. It has nothing to do with marriage. It has everything to do with people making uninformed decisions. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

 

We get more honesty from a cell phone carrier. Somehow, women love this idea and defend it quite stridently. Men are usually silent or nod in agreement for fear of raising the ire of their partners.

 

Divorce laws are not secret. You can't turn on the TV, drive down a highway, pick up a phone book, or sit at a diner with paper placements without seeing ads for divorce/family lawyers. If someone wants to make an informed decision, the information they need is readily available. If they're not interested in seeking it out and using it, then too bad.

 

The first thing I did when my brother broke up with his pregnant girlfriend was look up all the relevant custody laws in the state he lives in and send him as much information as I could. The first thing he did was call a lawyer so he could prepare for the future and learn what he was going to have to deal with and what he would have to do. That's what you do, and if you don't do it, then who else do you have to blame?

[Mme. Chaucer]

The first thing he did was call a lawyer so he could prepare for the future and learn what he was going to have to deal with and what he would have to do. That's what you do, and if you don't do it, then who else do you have to blame?

 

Blame the wimmins! Duh!

[MonsterMash]

My marriage is very advantageous to "the man." And to me, as well.

 

OP seems incapable of understanding that his "epiphany" is not everybody else's reality.

 

It's good that he has solidified his own position on marriage. He's most definitely not husband material. Win/win.

 

 

Lets face it though. With the rare exception, a man brings more to a marriage than a female. He brings money ...she brings sex. And when she gets tired of him...takes half when she leaves. 150k plus for a house, her car. The furniture and appliances she had to have. Round it up to 200k. Then she can roll on and find some other dumb schmuck and do it all over again.

 

At least escorts are honest. You know they are only there for the money. Most wives are exactly the same....except the marriage license makes it legal. The courts are the pimps getting their cut.

 

Of course...I used to be bitter, but I'm over that now.

[Silly_Girl]

Still looking for a man who'll 'bring me the money'.

 

Sigh....

[strongnrelaxed]

We're planning our wedding, and it's happened really fast. We're both extremely earnest about the prospect of marriage and that we are building the foundations of something that will hopefully last 30/40+ years.

 

We think we're more compatible than most people we know (bet EVERYONE says that ). Our key areas of focus are:

Parenting attitude/style

Approach to life (career/stress/leisure/balance)

Money, long and short term goals

Sex

Communication (frequency/method/style)

Health and diet

 

We have the pre-nup drawn up. The wills are somewhat complex and taking longer. We're booked on a pre-marital preparation course early next year.

 

Funnily enough, you mention the 'licence'... We'll be popping along to the local town hall together one day and doing that bit casually, because we're having a (non-legal) humanist ceremony on the day. So it will very much feel like a legal transaction at that point, without the hearts and flowers and fluffy stuff of the wedding day.

 

Well, I really do wish you luck. As a fellow Humanist I am happy to hear that you are open about this. Super cool.

 

My question is - why get married? You can live together, have kids, share rings, change names and a whole boatload of other things. Why invite the Government into your marriage -especially if you are signing a prenup.

 

I am just curious. Most people cite financial considerations. I always thought relationships were about love. At least that is what women have been telling me my whole life.

 

What am I missing?

[strongnrelaxed]

You originally mentioned "study" not "take a test." I don't belong to any church, but I do know how to read law and was interested enough to read the relevant laws in my state. I'm familiar with the "penalties for breaking the contract" and the "true terms and conditions" because I don't like making major, life-changing decisions without reading what is written in black and white in front of my face. I'm the type of person who reads whatever's put in front of me carefully before signing anything. So going into this marriage, I'm already aware of how my state handles the major issues that come up with a separation, and I know, for example, that the advanced degree I plan to earn while we're married will be considered a marital asset in the event of a divorce. No, you can't predict everything, and laws aren't set in stone, but it's important enough that both of us have taken the time to make sure we understand what this really is.

 

 

 

The very problem is that people don't seem too fond of critical thinking. It has nothing to do with marriage. It has everything to do with people making uninformed decisions. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

 

 

 

Divorce laws are not secret. You can't turn on the TV, drive down a highway, pick up a phone book, or sit at a diner with paper placements without seeing ads for divorce/family lawyers. If someone wants to make an informed decision, the information they need is readily available. If they're not interested in seeking it out and using it, then too bad.

 

The first thing I did when my brother broke up with his pregnant girlfriend was look up all the relevant custody laws in the state he lives in and send him as much information as I could. The first thing he did was call a lawyer so he could prepare for the future and learn what he was going to have to deal with and what he would have to do. That's what you do, and if you don't do it, then who else do you have to blame?

 

I assume that you are intelligent enough to know that you are the exception- not the rule - regarding legal research. Wow. I am honestly impressed. I am also impressed that you convinced a man to abide by those terms and conditions. Things are going to work out quite well for you I suspect. You are clearly smart AND educated.

 

My posts here are mostly to raise awareness with the young men among us who are not aware of these nuances. They may or many not think critically, but I can tell you from overwhelming experience - we are not made aware of such things in general and in fact the real terms are not easy to get at and are "subject to change" That sort of thing would scare me away from any business deal unless I had little or no choice (like a cell phone contract).

 

Marriage is like that for a lot of men. They are talking about this more than ever and are very pissed off. That is what you are seeing here.

[strongnrelaxed]

Still looking for a man who'll 'bring me the money'.

 

Sigh....

 

No worries. There are plenty out there. That is changing though, so act now while supplies last!

[threebyfate]

My marriage is very advantageous to "the man." And to me, as well.

 

OP seems incapable of understanding that his "epiphany" is not everybody else's reality.

 

It's good that he has solidified his own position on marriage. He's most definitely not husband material. Win/win.

Mine too. He's well fed, watered, sheltered and groomed. No complaints from him.

[Silly_Girl]

Well, I really do wish you luck. As a fellow Humanist I am happy to hear that you are open about this. Super cool.

 

My question is - why get married? You can live together, have kids, share rings, change names and a whole boatload of other things. Why invite the Government into your marriage -especially if you are signing a prenup.

 

I am just curious. Most people cite financial considerations. I always thought relationships were about love. At least that is what women have been telling me my whole life.

 

What am I missing?

 

We want to be united outwardly as well as between us. We want a celebration ceremony that our very nearest and dearest can be involved in. I am grateful for the support they've shown me that has led to me having the wonderful life I have now, and the wonderful man. And we want to legally be a family with any children we may have. It's easier that way. I want to take his name, too, so marriage suits us in many ways.

[strongnrelaxed]

We want to be united outwardly as well as between us. We want a celebration ceremony that our very nearest and dearest can be involved in. I am grateful for the support they've shown me that has led to me having the wonderful life I have now, and the wonderful man. And we want to legally be a family with any children we may have. It's easier that way. I want to take his name, too, so marriage suits us in many ways.

 

These all sound good. Marriage is not necessary to do any of these things. You can do every one of these next month without the marriage contract.

[sweetjasmine]

I assume that you are intelligent enough to know that you are the exception- not the rule - regarding legal research. Wow. I am honestly impressed. I am also impressed that you convinced a man to abide by those terms and conditions. Things are going to work out quite well for you I suspect. You are clearly smart AND educated.

 

I didn't convince anybody. My fiance was always the one who brought up the marriage talk, and I happened to agree with him. If I had to convince somebody to marry me, I wouldn't be marrying them.

 

And those "terms and conditions" are more beneficial to him than they are to me.

 

My posts here are mostly to raise awareness with the young men among us who are not aware of these nuances. They may or many not think critically, but I can tell you from overwhelming experience - we are not made aware of such things in general and in fact the real terms are not easy to get at and are "subject to change" That sort of thing would scare me away from any business deal unless I had little or no choice (like a cell phone contract).

 

Marriage is like that for a lot of men. They are talking about this more than ever and are very pissed off. That is what you are seeing here.

 

What I'm seeing here is someone who was blindsided assuming that everybody else must be equally unaware of what could potentially happen to them. Of course most people don't read the law, but that doesn't mean they're wholly unaware of anything and that they're marrying blindly. Like you say, "they are talking about this more than ever" -- yes, they are, so is there really a need for you to play marriage truth warrior and lecture everybody as if you've discovered some great untold secret? It's not a secret at all that divorce is adversarial, that many people go for their spouses' throats, and that some breadwinners still get the raw end of a deal in some states.

 

There's a difference between raising awareness and making pronouncements and ridiculous sweeping generalizations because you're still upset over what happened to you. If you were "raising awareness," you would post some actual specifics and wouldn't feel the need to post your usual "marriage is evil and women are hiding it from men mmmkay?" spiel in threads specifically designed for people to share positive experiences.

[strongnrelaxed]

I didn't convince anybody. My fiance was always the one who brought up the marriage talk, and I happened to agree with him. If I had to convince somebody to marry me, I wouldn't be marrying them.

 

And those "terms and conditions" are more beneficial to him than they are to me.

 

 

 

What I'm seeing here is someone who was blindsided assuming that everybody else must be equally unaware of what could potentially happen to them. Of course most people don't read the law, but that doesn't mean they're wholly unaware of anything and that they're marrying blindly. Like you say, "they are talking about this more than ever" -- yes, they are, so is there really a need for you to play marriage truth warrior and lecture everybody as if you've discovered some great untold secret? It's not a secret at all that divorce is adversarial, that many people go for their spouses' throats, and that some breadwinners still get the raw end of a deal in some states.

 

There's a difference between raising awareness and making pronouncements and ridiculous sweeping generalizations because you're still upset over what happened to you. If you were "raising awareness," you would post some actual specifics and wouldn't feel the need to post your usual "marriage is evil and women are hiding it from men mmmkay?" spiel in threads specifically designed for people to share positive experiences.

 

I have only your words to go on here Jas. So if you say that you NEVER expressed your strong opinion that you are looking to settle down, will not entertain a LTR without the marriage contract, that you want to get married and will not accept anything less. You never pushed, hinted cajoled or otherwise pressured him. Ok, I will have to go with that.

 

I will also have to go with the "terms and conditions" thing being in his favor. Generally speaking this is an egregious falsehood, but I will concede that in some cases couples have somehow worked this out.

 

I do not need you to bestow any titles or names on me - although "Truth Warrior" does have a ring to it. There are playgrounds with plenty of children on whom you can do this. Doesn't so much work on me...mmmmkay?

 

Women certainly do not hide these things from men. Our entire society is just deceptive about it. Everything from "married men live longer" (as if that is some sort of good thing!) to "you must do your duty" to "do you want to be lonely for the rest of your life and live a miserable lonely existence?" to "what will become of you - you cannot have meaning in life as an independent free male human being. You must 'settle down' with a good woman (lol) and find meaning..." etc. There are many wrong and biased messages about marriage and they mostly favor women.

 

Your post has an air of arrogance about it,. I only wish that every human being were as enlightened and perfect and open and honest and had the superb research skills that you possess. I really do. If that were the case, then I would have pretty little need to be here - right?

 

Young men must be warned about this. All I can do is try. If I save even one, then my job is done.

 

And while I do understand that people want to be here for positive reasons, I would be equally strident if someone were on a apple pie recipe site dishing out advice on how to lynch people of color. You can bet your ass I would call that out.

 

This is the same thing in my book. Since you are not on the receiving end, or live in a world where this never happens, I can understand how you wouldn't get it. Others do though and we are going to get louder and louder and more pervasive until these laws and horrible outdated social customs are a thing of the past.

[yessy21]

I just want a big party... and a buffet. why do i have to sign anything!!!