At what cost, to be together?

[Million.to.1]

Situation.

 

Him - Toronto, Canada Me - Auckland, New Zealand

 

Met while traveling South East Asia in 2010. Traveled together, fell in love, went our separate ways when the time came...

 

Life goes on. .....Right?

 

Every few months when we talk it comes up again. How can we try and be together? It seems that with both of our careers keeping us in the communities we are established in, neither of us can afford the risk of making the leap to join the other.

 

I fear that i will always feel this "what if" if we never try... But on the other hand, if it doesn't work out, one of us would have put it all on the line for the other and then lost it.

 

I don't want to keep revisiting this possibility every time we speak. ...How do I stop this?

 

I can afford to fly him here if he wants to give it a go. I can't leave as i have business i'm starting up and it requires me to stay. he is more than happy for me to come to him, but i can't leave for very long. He can't afford to get here on his own but could come for longer.

 

Should i put my money where my mouth is and ask him to come here?

[Balzac]

Absolutely! His only concern may be his loss of the ability to work. If he comes to you and forgoes income, you can execute a contract. Does that appeal to you?

[Million.to.1]

What do you mean a contract? I can't afford to "keep" him. Just get him here.

 

I should explain... He is a musician. I am an actress, do casting and other simliar things, i have a small start-up business which event sustainable floristry. I couldn't do any of that if i went to him in Canada. He could still make music here.

 

It is a struggle financially for both of us being in artistic lines of work, even in our home towns... We would still both have to par-take in work we don't enjoy sometimes to pay the bills.... but if one was giving up their life, friends/ family, for the other... wouldn't this cause resentment down the track?

[gamman]

This is a tough one. Sure, you can ask. But, in reality, you're asking him to leave his career, family, friends, life, way of life, etc. and to move to a continent in a different hemisphere.....

 

IDK. You say that you've had the conversation many times of how you can be together. It seems like if he was up for that, he would have already mentioned it or done it.

 

I don't think I'd ask someone to do something this gigantic unless I'd do it myself. I know you have a business, but if you didn't, would you leave and move to New Zealand if he asked you? And really, be honest?

 

I don't want to keep revisiting this possibility every time we speak. ...How do I stop this?

 

Stop revisiting this possibility every time you speak.

[Balzac]

I guess the initial question is can he legally work in your city? Or if off the legal permit is work available?

 

I now understand the "arts" career aspect.

[Million.to.1]

would you leave and move to New Zealand if he asked you? And really, be honest?

 

 

 

Stop revisiting this possibility every time you speak.

 

 

well, Yes.

 

I would move to Canada if i could have a half decent career there, but i can. I can't try and be an actress in Canada or do casting or chaperoning. I'm established here. I'm known in a small industry.I have connections. I wouldn't be over there. Anyway... I can't even get a working visa because i'm over 30. So i would have to do cash-in-hand bar work or something. :-/

 

He can make music anywhere.

 

I haven't ever asked him to come here for that reason. He keeps trying to convince me to come there. I can't though...

[Million.to.1]

I'll add as far as being willing to do it myself... I would consider spending a portion of the year in his home town too... But just not at the moment. I have to get my business to a point where i can leave it for a while.

[gamman]

Hey, sorry had your locations switched. Yeah, based on what you've said, I might chalk this one up to life goes on and move forward. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[FitChick]

Toronto is a bigger city than Auckland and it has a film industry. Most of those New York scenes in films were actually shot in Toronto. He has more opportunity to play music in Toronto with lots of clubs. Seems to me you'd have better luck in your field in Toronto but you'd need to work there legally, which is tricky. I had no idea they didn't allow immigrants over 30. I think even New Zealand has a 45 years age limit.

 

You could always marry him to live there legally.

[Million.to.1]

Toronto is a bigger city than Auckland and it has a film industry. Most of those New York scenes in films were actually shot in Toronto. He has more opportunity to play music in Toronto with lots of clubs. Seems to me you'd have better luck in your field in Toronto but you'd need to work there legally, which is tricky. I had no idea they didn't allow immigrants over 30. I think even New Zealand has a 45 years age limit.

 

You could always marry him to live there legally.

 

You are right, but in NZ, i'm known... in Canada, i'm no one.

 

For me to work there legally, i think we would have to get married... that's a pretty big ask.

 

Like i said.. i would be happy to move there.. i just can't do it now... and if he's not prepared to make a sacrifice even short term, why should i sacrifice everything?

[Million.to.1]

they should make a special visa for people wanting to see if they could move there to marry... like a trial period. it's pretty hard to go all in or nothing.

[Els]

If you can afford it and he's amenable to it, have him come over on a tourist visa and live with you. Surely you make enough to be able to support him for a 2-3 month vacation. If all is going well, apply for a de facto partner visa and show proof of him living with you for the past few months, as well as photos/logs etc of your relationship while you were travelling together previously. You absolutely do not need to marry to obtain a partner visa in NZ.

[justwhoiam]

in NZ, i'm known... in Canada, i'm no one.

So is it all about that? You're no one in Canada? I'm sure there was a time when you were no one in NZ too. If work is more important than a living person you may love, forget about him. How do you forget about him? Change your phone line, cell phone number. If he emails you, don't answer. Block him on Skype, yahoo or whatever instant messenger you were using. Go NC with him for the rest of your life.

 

P.S. Yes, you might regret it for the rest of your life. You can't have it all.

[cerridwen]

they should make a special visa for people wanting to see if they could move there to marry... like a trial period. it's pretty hard to go all in or nothing.

 

I agree it's hard and going all in isn't something to consider unless you're both equally committed, have talked about it openly and honestly, and both reached the same conclusion about what's best.

You giving up everything to move?

It doesn't make much sense when he has the more flexible career and this relationship is still in its fledgling stage.

The more established person living the more promising location should stay put.

 

Plus, Elswyth's post seems to offer a great solution: A tourist visa can give you the trial run you're looking for.

Forget marrying as a means of being together.

Wait until you feel he's the one for you and not before.

Until then, I vote for you staying put, helping him fly over, and spend the 2-3 months together.

 

I honestly hope it works out.

[umirano]

Have you ever met since 2010? I know from experience that it's easy to fall in love on a vacation. Both of you were in a good mood, neither of you did have to deal with any hassle. Now you're back in your respective lives for two years.

 

Don't agree to pay for him for 2-3 months. Don't start by applying for a partner visa. Play it save. Go visit him for a week or two, find out if he wants to visit you. If both of you are serious, visits will become more frequent. You will find out a lot more about each other. You will get a more complete and realistic picture of that person than you could on a nice and warm beach somewhere in SE Asia.

 

At some point, given both of you are serious, for at least one of you the pain of the travelling will exceed the pain of giving up the old life and you can start to make a plan to move in in either one of the two, or in a completely different country.

 

Good luck!

[gamman]

It just seems like there are sooooooooo many hoops to jump through that are amazingly life altering, and each of you are not willing to do them.

 

I'm not doubting your feelings for one another, but this one just doesn't seem realistic, at least to me.

 

I think the anxiety you have when you think about leaving NZ to move to Toronto (that you're not established there) is telling you something. A lot of times that anxiety is warning you that this might not be right, that this might not be the best decision, and I'd be willing to bet he has those same thoughts, too.

 

Again, if you aren't willing and able to move there because of the reasons you're giving, I don't think it's right to anticipate him to do so.

 

Unfortunately, where does that leave this relationship?

 

Wish I was more upbeat. I've just seen situations like this drag on so many times always ending in the same way.

[cerridwen]

well, Yes.

 

I would move to Canada if i could have a half decent career there, but i can. I can't try and be an actress in Canada or do casting or chaperoning. I'm established here. I'm known in a small industry.I have connections. I wouldn't be over there. Anyway... I can't even get a working visa because i'm over 30. So i would have to do cash-in-hand bar work or something. :-/

 

He can make music anywhere.

 

I haven't ever asked him to come here for that reason.He keeps trying to convince me to come there. I can't though...

 

Discuss the option and let him go away and think about it.

If he's a renter in Canada, he can look into sub-leasing his apartment while he's visiting you.

If things don't work out, he's not lost anything and can return to an intact life.

Float the idea soon so if he feels it's a go, he can start saving some money for his time with you.

[Million.to.1]

Have you ever met since 2010? I know from experience that it's easy to fall in love on a vacation. Both of you were in a good mood, neither of you did have to deal with any hassle. Now you're back in your respective lives for two years.

 

You will get a more complete and realistic picture of that person than you could on a nice and warm beach somewhere in SE Asia.

 

At some point, given both of you are serious, for at least one of you the pain of the travelling will exceed the pain of giving up the old life and you can start to make a plan to move in in either one of the two, or in a completely different country.

 

I agree that we don't know if it will work in reality rather than in vacation mode, but isn't it worth at least trying? We have both gone about our respective lives but both keep revisiting this idea of being together because it's not going anywhere.

 

It just seems like there are sooooooooo many hoops to jump through that are amazingly life altering, and each of you are not willing to do them.

 

I think the anxiety you have when you think about leaving NZ to move to Toronto (that you're not established there) is telling you something. A lot of times that anxiety is warning you that this might not be right, that this might not be the best decision, and I'd be willing to bet he has those same thoughts, too.

 

Again, if you aren't willing and able to move there because of the reasons you're giving, I don't think it's right to anticipate him to do so.

 

Unfortunately, where does that leave this relationship?

 

Wish I was more upbeat. I've just seen situations like this drag on so many times always ending in the same way.

 

i fear you may be right... but i'll say again, i am not unwilling to move there. i just can't right now. i have invested alot of money and time in my business and i need to stay here to see if it's going to work.

 

Discuss the option and let him go away and think about it.

If he's a renter in Canada, he can look into sub-leasing his apartment while he's visiting you.

If things don't work out, he's not lost anything and can return to an intact life.

Float the idea soon so if he feels it's a go, he can start saving some money for his time with you.

 

It's done. I have put the idea to him that i will pay for his flight here and told him to think about it. It would need to be more than a holiday.. yes 2-3 months. He can stay with me and suss out potential music/work opportunities in that time.

i spose that if he is resistant to that idea, then I have my answer about his level of investment in giving this a try.

 

It's pretty expensive flying from Toronto to Auckland. just to give people an idea, its about $2000 USD return. Neither of us could afford "trial holidays or visiting" long term . He is a musician, and i'm and actor. which means we are both pretty broke.

[cerridwen]

I agree that we don't know if it will work in reality rather than in vacation mode, but isn't it worth at least trying? We have both gone about our respective lives but both keep revisiting this idea of being together because it's not going anywhere.

 

 

 

i fear you may be right... but i'll say again, i am not unwilling to move there. i just can't right now. i have invested alot of money and time in my business and i need to stay here to see if it's going to work.

 

 

 

It's done. I have put the idea to him that i will pay for his flight here and told him to think about it. It would need to be more than a holiday.. yes 2-3 months. He can stay with me and suss out potential music/work opportunities in that time.

i spose that if he is resistant to that idea, then I have my answer about his level of investment in giving this a try.

 

It's pretty expensive flying from Toronto to Auckland. just to give people an idea, its about $2000 USD return. Neither of us could afford "trial holidays or visiting" long term . He is a musician, and i'm and actor. which means we are both pretty broke.

 

I'm so excited you proposed the idea!

I hope he accepts as this seems the best solution.

Million, it's impressive how rationally you're approaching this.

Yes, his willingness to invest will reveal something about his commitment of being together.

Smart of you to recognize that.

Best of luck!

[Million.to.1]

So is it all about that? You're no one in Canada? I'm sure there was a time when you were no one in NZ too. If work is more important than a living person you may love, forget about him.

 

It's pretty hard to explain unless you are in the industry. It's not just about me being no-one.. it's about from going to a established career in Film & Tv, one that i have had since childhood i might add, to being a waitress. It would be really hard to break into the industry there, possible, but it would take a while. and ESPECIALLY hard if i can't even work there legally. Regardless of how much i love him, i would end up resenting him because i wouldn't feel satisfied.

 

We would both be giving alot up. We just need to find a compromise that works. One can't give up everything. We have to meet each other half way. That's why i thought that paying for his flights to come here would make it less of a burden on him. I f i went there, i would have to give up everything, AND pay for it. :-/

[Million.to.1]

I'm so excited you proposed the idea!

I hope he accepts as this seems the best solution.

Million, it's impressive how rationally you're approaching this.

Yes, his willingness to invest will reveal something about his commitment of being together.

Smart of you to recognize that.

Best of luck!

 

 

Thank-you Cerridwen!! I really hope he does accept. It's still alot of money for me... but i'm willing to gamble with it for him.

 

if not, it will be good to put the idea to rest once and for all.

 

I'll keep the thread updated when i next speak to him about it.

[gamman]

Good luck, Million. I have a friend who just made a round-trip visit to Amsterdam from Seattle. Like you said, it's very expensive. Not only that, but the travel itself was very grueling, and it took him days to adjust after he returned from the trip. Thinking it over, I actually think you were right to ask him, it's hard in these situations not to place unrealistic expectations on things and then not be horribly upset when they don't happen (not that you were). Hope he says yes. Crossing my fingers for you.

Edited October 7, 2012 by gamman

[Million.to.1]

So bit of an update...

 

We discussed it in length on skype yesterday. I explained the difficulties i would face at this time going there and why it wouldn't be possible.

 

We looked into how it could work for him coming here and agreed that the practicalities were alot easier that way around. He is eligible for a 1 year working holiday visa untill he is 35. (he's 33 now)

I would largely contribute to his airfare (which would be return) to help with the burden on him of an extended move from home.

 

We clarified alot of things which needed to be talked about and are now on the same page. He understands that i will consider going the other way (to canada) for a time or whatever if things work out between us and we want to look at more permanent arrangements.

 

He is really thinking about it seriously now, and I'm going to leave him to think it through.

In the meantime... I'm doing some research and networking in the music scene here to see what his options are should he decide to come.

 

I'm scared.

[gamman]

Don't be scared. Everything will happen as it should. Stay cool.

 

Okay. I'd be pretty nervous, too. Good luck.

Edited October 11, 2012 by gamman

[Million.to.1]

Don't be scared. Everything will happen as it should. Stay cool.

 

 

yeah. I know it will.

Thanks.

 

 

(i'll just be over there in the corner, sh#ting my pants. )