"Other Women" => Sad, Lonely Women, Just Desperate for a Good Man!!

[veronese]

I recently discovered that my husband of 17 years has been seeing three (that I know of) OW for lunchtime drinks, chats and a bit of flirting. This has been going on for many years behind my back, has broken my heart and spirit, destroying my faith and trust in the man I so dearly loved. T

 

Three months on our marriage trundles on while we try to repair the damage. I don't doubt his love for me and our children, I believe he never intended to destroy his family, I accept that these particular women were nothing more than titillation and diversion. I understand what they meant to him and in truth they were the 'entertainment' to get him through particularly boring work days.

 

Discovering my husband was such a liar was such a shock. I'm not stupid (maybe naive), I'd never had any worrying incidents in all our years so I was truly devastated by his callous disregard for our lives. He is to blame for these betrayals, it was his choice to develop inappropriate, illicit friendships with OW, he is living with the consequences daily. The OW are not.

 

These women knew he was married, all were mothers themselves, two were single while the third was on her second marriage. My husband is annoyingly attractive and is widely perceived to be a very nice, kind man. These women thought he was just wonderful too. So they continued to jump when he called them up, they continued to make time to for him on a fairly regular but very superficial basis over a period of years. Their relationship didn't become physically intimate (apparently!!!) but did contain sexual chemistry, excitement, flirtation, mutual attraction, etc., Their blatant disregard for the potential trauma their friendship with my husband may cause astounded me. Why did they think so highly of my husband when they were aware that their friendship was a secret? Probably because I was portrayed as a wife who just 'wouldn't understand' the situation. Probably because they just couldn't give up the attentions of such a desirable man.

 

I have never dated a married man nor would I.

 

1. They are married - unavailable, not even an option or a consideration

2. They are married, so if they're chasing me they're scum bags.

3. They are married, they are married, they are married

 

So I thought about some of my friends who, despite previously saying they would never date a married man appear to no longer hold the same moral beliefs and although I'm not saying this applies to all OW, looking at the women I know the majority have some things in common.

 

Out of the 10 women I know to have been involved with MM (including my husbands harem of three):

 

8 of the 10 were single

 

Of these 8 single women:

 

6 had children

 

2 were childless but conceived their first (and only) babies with their MM and are now single mothers receiving NO financial or emotional support from the men

 

2 of the 10 were married women with children

 

But even more interestingly are the ages they were when they had their first affair with a MM

 

5 of them were 36 years old

 

4 of them were 37 years old

 

1 of them was 13 years old, being abused by her father

 

Now you could say that my little sample of 10 cannot represent all OW, and that is undeniably true.

 

But IMO it has to be more than a co-incidence surely.

 

As they struggled to raise their children alone, some of them definitely became lonely, depressed, tired and unhappy with their lives. My cousin had a very demeaning relationship with a MM after she became so desperate for someone, anyone to show her a bit of attention. This attention was purely sexual and degrading, the MM treated her like a prostitute really, except he didn't pay her, but guess what, she convinced herself otherwise, began to fall in love with him, pined for him and obsessed about him, basically settling for whatever she was being offered.

 

All of my friends know my feelings about dating married men but nevertheless when they have told me about their MM I have neither condoned nor condemned. They know I think what they are doing is wrong but just like many OW I've read about here, they justify their actions by admitting their culpability while declaring their inability to resist the temptation and allure of the MM.

 

The 'emotional connection' that exists between them is the unimpressive excuse used time after time, that they are completely in tune (mentally) with these men, just like soul mates. Then next thing you know they drop their knickers and jump into bed with them.

 

Without exception all of the women I know personally have fairly low self-esteems, lack confidence in themselves, and are aware that time is moving on and their looks/bodies are beginning to deteriorate. All of them have also been involved in abusive relationships in their pasts. They whine on about their hard lives without a husband, but don't appreciate just how much effort goes into making marriages work. I have been frequently told I am 'lucky' to have a husband like mine when luck has nothing to do with it. I suspect their absence of a serious, committed relationship has more to do with them not appreciating that marriages require a great deal of love, compromise, consideration, patience, humor, trust, kindness, energy, communication and sacrifice because they have a romantic idealized notion that marriage is a bed of roses, laced with honey!!

 

MM are accomplished liars and cheats. Many successfully enjoy extra-marital affairs while their wives remain blissfully ignorant. They fool the wives don't they so why are you so convinced they're being so honest with you? They even manage to hang on to their wives when their secrets are exposed. Quite an achievement really, to convince the wife of the irrelevance and insignificance of their affair despite having been exposed as a lying cheat. OW are for thrills and sex, seldom do MM view them as suitable or desirable marriage material. MM often believe that their wives would never cheat on them, that their wives are good, honest, faithful women, just the kind men like to marry!

 

If you can't think of your own self-respect, think about the how you'd feel if you were his wife. If you can't think about the wives, think about the children and their permanently damaged futures. If you care not a thing about innocent children - then there's no hope for you.

 

And should the improbable happen and you finally manage to ensnare some hapless man, when you have loved him with all your heart for 17 years then discover he has OW, you may even be able to look back on your time as a OW and understand the harsh reality of what you have been a willing participant in.

[Mr Spock]

It's amazing how every single wife comes in here bristling and thinks a post will make all of the OW see the "error" of their ways.

 

Unfortunately, the assumptions you are making about the women husbands cheat on with are incorrect. How do I know this? Because I was one as well. And I'm not selfish, or arrogant, or looking for finacial support for babies, or concerned about my fading youth.

 

What you are doing is "generalizing" because you're so steamed. But you should be more steamed at your husband.

 

I'm glad you're getting your anger off your chest so you can work hard at fixing whatever is wrong with your marriage.

[veronese]

I'm bristling, but I have no illusions that any my opinion will have the slightest effect on these women.

 

The assumptions I made about the women husbands cheat with were made on my personal experience and were applicable to each of the women I was referring to.

 

I appreciate that one cannot generalize about anything, having a friend who began her journey as the OW at the age of 13 surely makes even you recognize that I understand that these situations are all individual and different in some way.

 

The tarts have not received any negative or damaging repercussions from these affairs. Their lives remain unchanged, unaffected. I have not chosen to contact the unsuspecting husband of one of them, she is not going to have to lose husband number two. Life is fine and dandy for her.

 

You are mistaken if you think I am not with steamed with my husband - I have been and will continue to be no doubt for some time.

 

I have never been the OW. I have no idea about the minds of women who find themselves involved with MM, unless of course, the MM has lied about that minor point, but still, once a woman finds out a man is married, it's time to go, no ifs ands or buts.

 

It's my husband's fault this happened. But these women knew he was married and had they had any decency they wouldn't have encouraged or accommodated him in any way.

 

If they'd have rebuffed his advances, he may have got bored enough to put more effort into me, his wife. Do you think?

 

I'm trying to fix my marriage but it may not be possible. The problem was the age old problem of a man thinking he could have his cake and eat, then having no difficulty whatsoever in finding several willing candidates.

 

I do know that there are many underlying causes as to why women become involved with MM, but that doesn't justify their actions. I've had my share of traumas in my life but have always treated people with respect and kindness. It's not that difficult.

 

But maybe OW will tell me that despite having such strong views on fidelity, I may one day find myself in the very same situation, then I'll know won't I? There but for the grace of God and all that....

 

Well no, I can assure you I won't. It won't happen because I won't let it. No matter how lonely I may be one day, I think I'll survive without gate-crashing someone's marriage.

[Mr Spock]

On another post you made - all three supposed "OW" deny sleeping with your husband, and in fact were suprised that you were so upset. You state that you do blame your husband, but your posts suggest otherwise. You want these women to suffer-fine, it's a natural human reponse when one has been wounded. But be honest with yourself about it.

 

I think you're in denial about who is most at fault in the situation. Which would be your husband. The majority of your first comments were directed at the OW. These women are single (not breaking vows to anyone by having lunch with YOUR husband, please note) and your husband, like you said, is highly attractive and kind. If they had refused him, I think it's highly unlikely he would have returned to an unsatisfying relationship to put the effort in - he's doing so now because he's been busted.

 

Please take a look at therresa kennedy's threads, they're also quite good. You've got their personal information - but all three deny sleeping with your husband, and are quite annoyed that you're freaking out about this. Please don't think that I'm trying to say you don't have a right to feel betrayed and angry.

 

Do you think these women had sexual relations with your husband, even though all three deny it? I also remember reading one of the women has actually known him longer than you have. What exactly did these little lunches entail, and what was the "flirting?" How did you find out about it?

[unluckylady]

V - you said this: The assumptions I made about the women husbands cheat with were made on my personal experience and were applicable to each of the women I was referring to."

 

Wasn't one of them a 13 year old? Does your list of A-ZZ really apply to that poor girl? And I sure as hell can tell you that those qualities do not apply to many of the OW who come to this forum.

[johan]

I understand your anger, Veronese. Try to remember that this isn't Heaven, and you aren't writing to angels. You may be right to expect more from people, but then that's the story of everyone, isn't it? In your angry state, with your supreme disappointment, maybe it's too much to ask right now, but don't forget that it isn't for you to pronounce judgment.

 

Even though I didn't mean it that way, you can take that as a religious statement if you want. The fact remains that if your husband were stronger, then your marriage wouldn't be threatened. People aren't always born as strong as they need to be, but going through hard times like you are is one way to get there.

 

I hope you work on your marriage and forgive your husband. You've said so many good things about him that you've convinced me he's worth it. Maybe you can find a productive way to deal with your anger. Don't waste it by picking a pointless fight you can't win.

[littleflowerpot]

while, i'm sorry you were hurt, i think your anger would be more productive if you turned that rage towards your husband where it is truly more deserved. your husband cheated on you not once but three times yet you are still more interested in blaming the women than you are your own husband. you have a long list of vitriol towards the women but you talk about how your husband loves you. you say that they didn't have sex but i wouldn't be too sure about that if i were you. have you ever considered getting yourself and your husband into counseling to find out why he keeps seeking outside of your marriage? as for "If they'd have rebuffed his advances, he may have got bored enough to put more effort into me, his wife. Do you think?" no, i don't think that. i think your husband would simply look for another woman if the first one rebuffed him. why? i don't really know but i suspect it's because he is an unfaithful and selfish man.

 

i really do wish you luck with your "accomplished liar and cheat" and i think you'll need it. i know you are in pain and i'm sure that will result in a lot of anger but i do think you should focus a lot of attention on your husband and possibly find the strength to leave a man that has betrayed you time and time again.

[BettyBoo]

I can truly understand why you are angry V however you're blaming other women for your unhappiness is unhelpful to you and to your marriage.

 

We are all 100% responsible for our happiness or our unhappiness. A difficult concept to process as it is far easier to blame everyone else.

 

These women are women like yourself with dreams, aspiration, hopes, disappointments etc. Please do not demonize them otherwise there really can be no way forward for you or your husband. Projecting all your negativity onto these women is only just doing that nothing more. It would be far wiser for you to think about why these women were important to your husband in the first place.

 

What did he enjoy about their company? Could it be that after 17 years you have allowed yourself to get into a rut? It would be far better to take a long and honest look at analyzing yourself rather that attempting to draw conclusions based on a small population of OW you know. Also do a serious inventory on your marriage. How healthy is it really? How wonderful was it before he started seeing other women?

 

This IS the only way forward for you. YES you can bitch about other women. YES you can draw conclusions that show that all women are bitches. YES you can snoop through his stuff. BUT IS THAT REALLY WHAT YOU WANT FOR YOURSELF AND YOU MARRIAGE?

 

I am sure you are a lovely woman. I understand your value system and I know I would not go with a man who is living with or in relationship with another woman HOWEVER they are my values. I cannot judge anyone else by them nor can I assume that other people hold the same.

 

Life is not black or white. So try putting on a different lens and really start looking at the CORE issues (your marriage) here and not be sidetracked by other people.

 

I DO wish you the best of luck and some peace of mind .

[Debster]

I can understand why you are upset. Even if they didn't sleep with your husband you view it as emotional infidelity and some may even consider that more hurtful. However, you are defending your husbands actions and placing the blame on the OW. While I think there is a lot of truth to your list, it will offend people who are in the situation and you are posting in the OW/OM forum. Granted, some OW don't give a rats as& about what they are doing and are not remorseful. But some OW have had an abusive past, or lack self-esteem and even though they know what they are doing is wrong and they shouldn't, they are too weak to control their own actions and become VERY defensive.

 

The point is, your anger and hurt needs to be directed towards your husband. I would also suggest finding some new friends. The fact that you know 10 OW says to me that you need to find some new friends that share your values, morals and can be a positive influence when you are dealing with this drama.

[FreeMe]

I thought this was an insightful and rational post until I got to that list - then the idea of rational went out the window. At least you do say in your later post you were referring to the OWs you know.

 

I can read through the anger though and see some really good points that I hope some OWs will chew on. You're very well-spoken.

 

I have been an OW and of course, SOME of the things on that list certainly applied and apply to me. I have to disagree about women in the age group you specify being less attractive. I think that age group is one of the most attractive periods of a woman's life - she can still look great but also has some maturity and experience. I was an adult college student in my 30s and I had more professor's flirt with me and pay attention to me than they did the little co-eds. Really, I was almost like a magnet and I wasn't trying to be at all. I was working full time and going to college full time so it was a miracle I could look good at all - sometimes I'd get less than 3 hours of sleep before class. (And no, just in case you're wondering, I didn't become involved with any of the professors.) I remember talking about it with a friend (another adult student) and marvelling over how with all those young, attractive college-aged women, these professors were drawn to me. We came to the conclusion that while part of it was that I was attractive, there must have been something else - confidence level or something - that made me more attractive to them than the young girls.

 

Anyway, I know that's a minor detail at this point, but perhaps that age group does tend to get involved with MM because they're MORE attractive at that age and are pursued by the MM more. Just food for thought.

 

Good luck with working things out. I hope you can work through everything.

[moimeme]

how with all those young, attractive college-aged women, these professors were drawn to me

 

That you know of. I've known professors' wives - seems one of the perqs of university life is an endless supply of chippies for fun. I'd not get all that pleased with myself over it, if I were you.

 

perhaps that age group does tend to get involved with MM because they're MORE attractive at that age and are pursued by the MM more

 

I actually suspect that some of Veronnese's theories hold true, at least with respect to the women in question perhaps feeling their market value is dropping. After all, if you're all that attractive and desirable in your 30s, then you should easily find all the single men you could want and therefore have no need to take up with someone who is supposed to be committed to one of your fellow women.

[FreeMe]

Originally posted by moimeme

how with all those young, attractive college-aged women, these professors were drawn to me

 

That you know of. I've known professors' wives - seems one of the perqs of university life is an endless supply of chippies for fun. I'd not get all that pleased with myself over it, if I were you.

 

perhaps that age group does tend to get involved with MM because they're MORE attractive at that age and are pursued by the MM more

 

I actually suspect that some of Veronnese's theories hold true, at least with respect to the women in question perhaps feeling their market value is dropping. After all, if you're all that attractive and desirable in your 30s, then you should easily find all the single men you could want and therefore have no need to take up with someone who is supposed to be committed to one of your fellow women.

 

I never said I was pleased - more like bewildered. We were surprised about it and thought it was rather comical. Of course, it was only a few in comparison to the world full of professors - but every male professor I had under the age of 60 treated me differently than they did the young women. I observed it for three years. It was flattering sometimes, but sometimes it made me uncomfortable - for instance, when it was becoming obvious that one favored me and I thought the rest of the class probably hated my guts

 

As far as women in their 30s finding single men, I think it's more that they start despairing of ever finding a decent single man and become more vulnerable to MM, not because the women aren't attractive but because it's not easy to find the kind of all-around good guy most women are looking for. You must have heard that cliche (and yes, myth) that "all the good ones are taken". It's easy to start believing that when you've found loser after loser (and then kid yourself that this MM chasing you is NOT a loser).

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Debster

I can understand why you are upset. Even if they didn't sleep with your husband you view it as emotional infidelity and some may even consider that more hurtful. However, you are defending your husbands actions and placing the blame on the OW. While I think there is a lot of truth to your list, it will offend people who are in the situation and you are posting in the OW/OM forum. Granted, some OW don't give a rats as& about what they are doing and are not remorseful. But some OW have had an abusive past, or lack self-esteem and even though they know what they are doing is wrong and they shouldn't, they are too weak to control their own actions and become VERY defensive.

 

based on what you've just said, you think anyone who's ever been the OW under any circumstance is either a horribly cruel person that doesn't care give a rat's backside about who they hurt or they are women that have been abused and suffer from lack of self-esteem AND are weak. many women that get into such a situation are no less caring, loving, or weak than a woman who finds herself married to a man that is cheating on her.

 

you tell her to focus on her husband's behavior (which i agree with) but you then either demonize the OW (which seem to be more friend than a lover in this woman's situation) or call her weak and victims of abuse and low self-esteem.

 

the problem with all that is that once again we are trying to solve problems by stereotyping and laying blame.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by veronese

I appreciate that one cannot generalize about anything, having a friend who began her journey as the OW at the age of 13 surely makes even you recognize that I understand that these situations are all individual and different in some way.

 

This was not a journey into an adult OW affair --- this was child molestation. Please don't confuse the two.

 

 

 

I think there were a lot of good points made. The only thing that I'll add: Get it out. Vent here. Anger and rage and laying blame is just part of the process of dealing with the situation. I don't see anything wrong with it. Better out than in. Call all OW, or those that you know, every bad name you can think of (just don't post 'em here or they will be deleted! ) and get that anger out of you.

 

Rage has its own passion and until that passion is sated, the issues behind it cannot be dealt with. Let it out now. You'll progress to the next step in dealing with this and moving on after your rage has run its course.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by HokeyReligions

This was not a journey into an adult OW affair --- this was child molestation. Please don't confuse the two.

 

you are so right. a pedophile molesting a 13 year-old kid does not make her the OW. it just makes her a victim of a pedophile.

[supermom]

You know what I think?

 

I think that it is the MM AND the OW's fault. This arguing back and forth weather whos fault it is or what is never going to end.

 

Now these are my opinions okay?

 

The Married Man

The married man has made vows before God (or whatever religion you are in) to love, honor, cherish, and basically stay faithful throughout the marriage. He made vows to his wife and promised her he would do this. When a married man strays, not only is he cheating on his wife, kids, etc ,but is cheating on himself and his vows that he made. The infidelity is mainly his fault, but not all of it. Yes, nobody held a gun to his head, but nobody held a gun to the OW's head either ( and if he did that is a rape issue). The married man's wife has put her faith and devotion into this man (or vise versa if you are a man cheated on by your MW). Marriage is supposed to be about love, trust, faithfulness, and all the fun stuff. When you decide to have children, you also have the responsiblility to raise them the best way you can. Cheating is not doing that. Not only this, but IMHO you are cheating on your kids, and cheating them out of a normal family life.

 

The Other Woman/Man

The other woman did not make any vows to the MM or the wife, and often the OW are lied to in the beginning. The OW's portion of the blame lies when she knows about the wife. The affair should stop right then and there. The man is taken. I have read about the OW falling in love, etc and that is their excuse for not ending the affair. Let me ask you this: How can you fall in love knowing he is a liar, putting his family at risk of not only breaking up, but any stds out there. And I have also read some posts of the OW and how they state "he loves me". He is pretending to love you, but if he did, he would leave his wife and be with you, plain and simple.

 

Also another point ladies, what happened to the sista hood of women? Also why don't you all think you're worth it just as much as anyone else? You are getting the leftovers, when you could be getting the fresh main course. Get a single man, someone who will make you #1.

 

This post is only my opinion, but I do feel kinda strongly about it....but always keep your mind open.....

[Azeele]

Veronese,

 

Have you come to these conclusions all on your own, or have your impressions of these OW been colored by things your H says about them?

 

I was the OW for a while - the MM lied to me about his marital situation - when the wife found out about me and we talked - she told me that he had made me out to be some kind of bunny-boiling psycho who would not leave him alone. OMG, that couldn't have been further from the truth but he was trying to save his a$$. When I told him that I was going to cut off all contact with him until he got divorced, he wouldn't go away. He just tried harder. He called and messaged and e-mailed me several times a day with declarations of love and promises, etc.

 

I wasn't desperate for a man. In fact, I turned away a few good single guys to hang on to the promises MM made to me. He didn't want me to see anyone else but him because (he lied) - he was getting divorced very, very soon. And, if I loved him I'd wait for just a little while longer puhleeeese.

 

Don't forget - your H probably is making himself out to be quite the victim in front of these OWs and when confronted by you, he's likely to be no different. "Honey, she came onto me." "She won't stop calling me." "She was alone and no one else to talk to." "I felt sorry for her." (That was one my MM used. He said he felt sorry for me because I needed someone to talk to. I didn't need anyone to talk to, of course. I ignored him for days on end - just made him call me more.) Then, after a while, maybe you start to think of these OWs as you've described them. Maybe you are being played and/or influenced by your H. That's just what every "accomplished liar and cheat" wants to do - take the heat off of them. Ahhh, to be able to cheat on your W and have her hate the OW for it - what a dream come true for the philanderer. He just dodged a bullet, didn't he? Now if he can just get these OWs to lay low for a while and continue to believe his BS until you calm down.....hmmmm

[Debster]

response to littleflowerpot:

 

based on what you've just said, you think anyone who's ever been the OW under any circumstance is either a horribly cruel person that doesn't care give a rat's backside about who they hurt or they are women that have been abused and suffer from lack of self-esteem AND are weak.

 

Give me a break. I didn't realize you expected an entire list of why I think women are OW. And I bet that if I did, you would freak out and say that was unfair and painting every OW with the same brush. Note in my post I used the word 'some'. If you are going to pick apart my post, at least make sure you do it accurately.

 

And by the way I don't agree with this comment:

many women that get into such a situation are no less caring, loving, or weak than a woman who finds herself married to a man that is cheating on her.

 

I think that is a load of bull. In my opinon, I find that by being in an affair, their BEHAVIOUR shows they are acting either selfishly, or cruely, or weakly, etc (and no, this is not an all-inclusive list). The wife, often has no idea that her husband is cheating, so how can you say anything about her? Do/did you even know her? Or are you just believing whatever your MM told you?

 

you tell her to focus on her husband's behavior (which i agree with) but you then either demonize the OW (which seem to be more friend than a lover in this woman's situation) or call her weak and victims of abuse and low self-esteem.

 

Once again, your reaction is way out of line. At no point in my post do I demonize the OW. And once again, I believe that a woman who has an affair often is weak and has low self esteem. Why else would they believe a man who is cheating on his wife? Why else would they want to have leftovers?

 

the problem with all that is that once again we are trying to solve problems by stereotyping and laying blame.

 

I find that incredibly amusing that you would write that after you freaked out over a post where I did not stereotype or lay blame. I think you are a little defensive. Could it be because you were the OW? Maybe you need to deal with the fact that you were an OW and what that might say about you.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Debster

response to littleflowerpot:

 

 

 

Give me a break. I didn't realize you expected an entire list of why I think women are OW. And I bet that if I did, you would freak out and say that was unfair and painting every OW with the same brush. Note in my post I used the word 'some'. If you are going to pick apart my post, at least make sure you do it accurately.

 

And by the way I don't agree with this comment:

 

 

I think that is a load of bull. In my opinon, I find that by being in an affair, their BEHAVIOUR shows they are acting either selfishly, or cruely, or weakly, etc (and no, this is not an all-inclusive list). The wife, often has no idea that her husband is cheating, so how can you say anything about her? Do/did you even know her? Or are you just believing whatever your MM told you?

 

 

 

Once again, your reaction is way out of line. At no point in my post do I demonize the OW. And once again, I believe that a woman who has an affair often is weak and has low self esteem. Why else would they believe a man who is cheating on his wife? Why else would they want to have leftovers?

 

 

 

I find that incredibly amusing that you would write that after you freaked out over a post where I did not stereotype or lay blame. I think you are a little defensive. Could it be because you were the OW? Maybe you need to deal with the fact that you were an OW and what that might say about you.

 

no, honey. i never freaked out. but frankly, i think you just did. in fact, i think you've gone a bit overboard.

 

there are many, many reasons people become involved in affairs and are not limited to just your narrow definitions. also, i find it really amusing that you try to turn it around on me and imply that i'm a person of loose morals just because i DARED to disagree with you.

[deesgirl]

I say when you become the wife and show compassion for the OW, then you can say how a wife should or should not feel.

[BettyBoo]

SISTERS PLEEEEEEEEEEEAAASEEE!! STOP quibbling amongst ourselves.

 

Other women/married women/wives????? We are firstly women so lets drop the titles under which some of you seem to feel you can sit, feel smug and bitch.

 

The reality is this woman's HUSBAND is her problem......Her marriage should be her FOCUS...

 

Other women???????? yeah sure but it could have been other men!!!!! The reality is when soemone strays in a marriage it is symtomatic of what is not working in the relationship and NOT a reflection of every other woman on the planet.

 

 

So married women deal with your marriages......single women find a single available man........for those amongst us who have found their paths crossed with married men ..............sit up take stock and stop hurting yourself. You deserve BETTER.

 

BUt let us please STOP judging each other . A little understanding and compassion goes a hell of a lot further.

[veronese]

Well, as I said, my generalization was based on the small group of women I know.

 

I think it is abundantly clear that my friend who began a career of being the OW at the age of 13 was indeed, the victim of paedaphiles including her father (a man with a long term OW who his 79 year old wife found out about AFTER his death) (and I am not implying cheating husbands are paedaphiles before anyone starts). She is now a 43 year old woman who is has been irreparably damaged by her tragic childhood. She is a friend who dates married men and was therefore included. The abuse she has received (and incidentally continues to receive) is an absolute tragedy.

 

If anyone is under the illusion that my little rant about OW on this forum implies I put more of the blame on them instead of my wayward husband, you are sorely mistaken.

 

That little rant is nothing compared to how I feel about him. I DO blame him for the crisis we are now in. But I don't understand that whenever an angry wife lets off steam about OW, we are accused of mis-directing our anger at these feckless females instead of focusing our energies on the real culprit, our husband.

 

Understand me - my husband is at fault. He betrayed me. My feelings for him are entirely another subject.

 

But can someone please explain to me why I should not direct some of my (vast) anger at these women? Why is it wrong to criticize them when they play a part in this sorry tale?

 

How can anyone presume that the things I said at the beginning of this post means I'm turning a blind eye to my husband's part in all this?

 

Because the presumption that this is the case is terribly naive. To believe that the insults I directed towards OW at the start of this post exceeds anything I have directed at my husband in the last three and a half months makes me assume you underestimate the intensity of being betrayed by someone I loved with all my heart.

 

He approached them. He was the one lying to me, the one who gambled his family on some flirtatious, secretive, worthless friendships. It was HE who enjoyed the danger of playing with fire. He was aware that being so incredibly deceitful could destroy what we had. Abusing my trust, which was total, is probably going to be the hardest thing to overcome. These women are just the incidentals and I certainly don't credit them with relevance and importance that they don't deserve and will never get.

 

I wanted to rant about them because I don't understand why women do this to other women

 

I wanted to rant because they are not blameless because they knew he was married, that he was being secretive, and that he had no intention of leaving his family.

 

I'm angry with the OW in my marriage and with every other OW reading this because there is no need to accommodate these immature, needy men. Why don't they have some self respect and decline the offers of lunch and flirty chats? Why do they want to spend time with a man, albeit a rather good looking and unbelievably nice man, when they know that in doing so another marriage may become a statistic?

 

It's inexcusable in my opinion, after all, it's the only opinion I have. I know that the world isn't rosy and nice, but I wish women could have some respect, if not for other women then for the unfortunate children who are the real victims of betrayal. I know we're all human with needs and desires, but what happened to morals?

 

I know infidelity is not a new thing, it's just new to me. I also know that men are so different to women and have different mentalities. I have three brothers, a husband, a son, there's no changing them and it's hard to understand them sometimes. I'm sure they are as confused about us as we are about them.

 

I am a woman though and I truly don't understand why for every errant husband there exists a willing female. It baffles me. Surely they would hate to be in the wife's shoes?

 

Oh, and here's something to make you laugh. Yesterday I was talking with my dear, sweet husband about this stuff, and when I was wondering why these women gave up their time for him for such a very long time, he replied:

"because I'm a nice guy"

 

"But surely they could see you weren't a nice guy when you were sneaking around behind my back to spend time with other women?" I asked

 

"No, they thought I was a nice guy because I am a nice guy" he said.

 

"But you're not a nice guy" I said.

 

" Yes I am"

 

"you're not Jude, really you're not. I think you're believing your own press" I continued. "Nice guys don't treat their wives with such little respect. Nice guys don't lie to their wives for years on end. Nice guys don't become involved with other women when they're married. Nice guys resist temptation. Nice guys don't disregard their wive's feelings and risk losing their family rather than behave with honor and loyalty."

 

He looked at me, confused. He really does believe he's a nice guy - unbelievable!!!

[littleflowerpot]

maybe you should consider not insulting other women because you admittedly sometimes making sweeping generalizations. you cannot know the hearts and minds of anyone besides yourself. i'm sure you probably exhibit some behaviors that when viewed by other people might just make you be seen in a negative light. that doesn't mean it would be correct to assume anything about you based on what others think about you that do not have the benefit of knowing exactly what shapes you and your behaviors.

 

"Why do they want to spend time with a man, albeit a rather good looking and unbelievably nice man, when they know that in doing so another marriage may become a statistic?" perhaps these women (just like men) prefer to spend time with friends that are unbelievably nice people. perhaps these women did not think it would cause risk to your marriage because they were not having a sexual relationship with your husband but instead they were enjoying a friendship. you have told us that there was no sex involved. you have told us that both the women and your husband have indicated that there was no sex involved. again, i ask you: isn't it quite possible that they were just friends? maybe these women felt they were doing nothing wrong because they spending time with your husband as his friend and not as his lover? do you think it inconceivable that men and women can be friends and friends only? perhaps instead of asking why any woman would want to spend time with a man that is an incredibly nice man, you should ask why wouldn't any person (man or woman) want to spend time with a friend that is so incredibly nice?

 

it is clear you feel betrayed. your husband was secretive about his friendships. is it possible that he knew you would wig out once you found out he had close female friends? if so, it was still wrong of him and yes, i agree it was a betrayal. if a friendship is innocent, there should be no need to keep it a secret. if he feels that he cannot have friends of the opposite sex for fear of you becoming overly hysterical (and i'm not saying you are at all), he should be working on those problems in his marriage. if this is the case and he keeps his friendships secret because he's afraid you will be extremely upset over them, that is still not a reason to blame so harshly any woman he is a friend to. she is not betraying you in sisterhood by being a friend to your husband. your husband, however, is betraying trusts in your marriage. and is it conceivable that he actually likes making you feel a bit insecure as a way to build up his own self-esteem? people have been known to act in strange ways for strange reasons.

 

i am very sorry he hurt you. i do not wish you to think otherwise. i just think one shouldn't make such sweeping generalizations when there are so many factors that reckon into relationships.

[veronese]

There's been some really useful advice here, thanks to all who've taken the time to reply. Some of what has been said has been very helpful for me, it's made me stop and think things through. Johan, Supermom, BettyBoo, have given me some food for thought.

 

LittleHoneyPot..... do you mind me asking what your marital status is? You know so much about my marriage and I've read your responses with interest, but truthfully you've left me somewhat confused.

 

I've copied some excerpts from your replies to my marital difficulties and correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to contradict yourself. In one post you wrote:

 

 

"good lord, am i missing something here? he says and they said they didn't have sex but were friends only. is it possible they were friends only? is that such a radical idea? you are so over-wrought about this that maybe it really is possible that your husband knew that if he had friends of the opposite sex that you'd become extremely upset and jealous. i could be wrong but if there was no sex involved maybe they truly were just friends."

 

 

I gathered you thought it perfectly feasible and believable that the women were 'just friends', almost as if the problem may be less to do with

his deceit and more to do with me being a tad possessive and insecure?

 

You continue...

 

 

"i ask you: isn't it quite possible that they were just friends? maybe these women felt they were doing nothing wrong because they spending time with your husband as his friend and not as his lover? do you think it inconceivable that men and women can be friends and friends only?"

 

 

But then, LFP, you change direction and wrote:

 

 

 

"i don't really know but i suspect it's because he is an unfaithful and selfish man. "

 

"i really do wish you luck with your "accomplished liar and cheat" and i think you'll need it. i know you are in pain and i'm sure that will result in a lot of anger but i do think you should focus a lot of attention on your husband and possibly find the strength to leave a man that has betrayed you time and time again."

 

 

LFP, I don't think you get it, despite having had it spelled out in great detail.

 

Darling, do I have problems with my husband having female friends who he chats to, flirts with, meets for lunch secretly? Yes LFP, I do.

 

I wouldn't be happy about him developing any close friendships with women actually because I think todo so is courting danger, just read some of the posts in the 'infidelity' and 'OW/OM" sites. If he had close female friends when we first met I guess I would have welcomed them into our life, as friends, right from the start.

 

LFP, I have many male friends, colleagues, associates etc. and I enjoy being in their company. That doesn't mean though that I would spend any social time alone in their company (unless for genuine business purposes) and call me old fashioned, but I'm not comfortable with my husband becoming close to other women.

 

I'd love to hear how you and your partner have coped with this issue. Have you been happily married for many many years and both been enjoying the company of members of the opposite sex socially and independently of each other? If you've got any tips littleflowerpot please enlighten me...

[johan]

"you're not Jude, really you're not. I think you're believing your own press" I continued. "Nice guys don't treat their wives with such little respect. Nice guys don't lie to their wives for years on end. Nice guys don't become involved with other women when they're married. Nice guys resist temptation. Nice guys don't disregard their wive's feelings and risk losing their family rather than behave with honor and loyalty."

 

He looked at me, confused. He really does believe he's a nice guy - unbelievable!!!

 

You sound like my girlfriend, except that I never had any interest in anyone else (emotionally or physically) as long as we’ve been together. She’s felt almost as betrayed as you feel, because she can’t trust me. She’s constantly upset about things that happened in the past that she interprets to indicate I will fail her somehow in the future.

 

I don’t think it’s exaggerating to say that it has killed our relationship. My respect for her is gone, and her love for me is dying. Our relationship has degenerated to the point where the only feelings we have left are hurt ones. I tried for a long time to climb up on her moral pedestal with her, but she wouldn’t believe I really belonged there. I never found a way to break through and get close to her. We had the chicken and egg problem: do I have to meet her standards in order to get close, or if we got close would she relax and have faith in me? Empathy, introspection, and forgiveness are not her strong suits.

 

I think you’ve been clear about your anger. Do you have a plan for how you will forgive them? Or are you just venting and hurting all the time? Is your goal to save your marriage? I hope so, because my faith in love is taking a major hit.