Girls Harsher Critics Of The Female Body?

[threebyfate]

You assume that Maxim's top 10 represents the ideal top 10 of the majority of men. I would disagree.

Since Maxim allowed their readership of millions of men to select and rank these women, it's a lot more relevant than a few anecdotes described in the OP and within this thread.

[threebyfate]

In and of itself, that list says nothing about men. Some women are naturally very thin and a whole lot of them happen to be in Hollywood. Additionally, why only use BMI? If I packed on 15 pounds of muscle, I would be borderline obese for my height despite having only 13% body fat. Why are you relying on such a famously inadequate standard?

Your obesity isn't relevant to the thread topic.

[ThaWholigan]

Educate people about the negatives while still using and promoting products that support negatives......... Like I said, I don't think men are prepared to reject media that gives bad ideas about women because men gain too much pleasure from I. However, I do my best to be equal about the kind of media that wrongly represents men.

OK, so I stop being a rapper, stop listening to the music, stop watching porn that doesn't degrade women, stop watching music videos and stop buying magazines that I don't even buy anyway - and this will make women happy.

 

OK.

[TheBigQuestion]

Your obesity isn't relevant to the thread topic.

 

Neither is anything you've posted in this thread so far.

[threebyfate]

Neither is anything you've posted in this thread so far.

At least I'm not obese.

[verhrzn]

OK, so in order for men to put women at ease emotionally and physically, we must boycott all Maxim/FHM type magazines, pornography, music videos and rap music?

 

I don't necessarily support this. I think pornography and fantasy have their place. However, I do wish for a world in which fantasy and personal body preferences were a little more, well, private. When your wife and maybe a close friend knew what body type you preferred, and if you liked it trimmed downstairs or not. I wish there could be a way that we could openly discuss the practicalities of sex openly but leave the actual sex stuff in the bedroom....

 

Right now it seems the opposite. We're teaching abstinence in our schools and girls think they can get pregnant by swallowing, but we're bombarded by sexy images, sexy bodies, constant discussions of sexy sex sex.

 

I mostly just wish certain things were more private. I really don't need to know that a complete stranger finds me fat, or that the guy in the cubicle next to mine prefers big butts. I wish people could essentially just have a "live and let live" philosophy towards other people's bodies, and only discuss/judge based on their own physical preferences in private.

 

Essentially, I wish appearance could be de-coupled from value. I wish we could stop upholding it as the be-all-end-all of being female. I know guys are visual, but I wish their "visualness" was contained entirely to their sexual partners, and that it was separate from a man's actual critique of a woman. That instead of looking a woman up and down first, he looks her first in the eyes.

 

You could say I wished for an extermination of gender/sex, except when it comes to people's private lives. If you want to put on an apron and bake your husband dinner, power to you, but outside the home, let us stop being men and women and let us just be people.

 

I'm not saying this is realistic. I'm just describing an ideal situation, to me. The realistic wish would be for women to just be allowed to have whatever body they have.... skinny, fat, tall, short, saggy boobed, big hipped, all brands. That we stopped assigning which characteristics were "attractive" and just.... let others be whatever they are without assigning them a judgement and a value based on it.

[TheBigQuestion]

At least I'm not obese.

 

 

NOW this thread HAS hit rock bottom. Castle, ol' buddy, look back on this while you can because this is going to be locked or deleted within a few hours.

[Lonely Ronin]

Since Maxim allowed their readership of millions of men to select and rank these women, it's a lot more relevant than a few anecdotes described in the OP and within this thread.

 

well according to wiki Maxim has 2.5 million subscribers in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_(magazine)

 

2010 sensus says the US. has ~243 million men over the age of 16

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf

 

thus even if every Maxim subscriber agrees with the list that's only ~1% of the US. male population.

[TheBigQuestion]

well according to wiki Maxim has 2.5 million subscribers in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_(magazine)

 

2010 sensus says the US. has ~243 million men over the age of 16

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf

 

thus even if every Maxim subscriber agrees with the list that's only ~1% of the US. male population.

 

Not to mention that not all Maxim subscribers are men either.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

In and of itself, that list says nothing about men. Some women are naturally very thin and a whole lot of them happen to be in Hollywood. Additionally, why only use BMI? If I packed on 15 pounds of muscle, I would be borderline obese for my height despite having only 13% body fat. Why are you relying on such a famously inadequate standard?

 

Again, what you're saying really contradicts nothing asserted by anyone here, UNLESS you commit to the view that a magazine's list of the hottest women (1) is representative of what most or all men believe, and (2) is equivalent to, or entails, the verbal tearing-down of women as described in the OP.

 

Here is a list of women that have suffered with eating disorders and where honest enough to admit it: (it's quite a wide range of women)

 

 

Karen Carpenter

Paula Abdul

Fiona Apple

Justine Bateman

Portia de Rossi

Calista Flockheart

Jane Fonda

Lady Gaga

Tracey Gold

Joan Rivers

Tara Reid

Meredith Viera

Kate Winslet

Alanis Moriseet

Mary Kate Olsen

Nicole Richie

Sharon Osbourne

Geri Halliwell

Wynoona Judd

Oprah Winfrey

Candance Cameron

Jamie-Lynn Sigler

Victoria Beckham

Princess Diana

Demi Lovato

Katherine McPhee

Katie Couric

Stacy London

Lucy Hale

Brittney Spears

Ashlee Simpson

Barbi Twins

Paris Hilton

Whitney Houston

Courtney Cox

Demi Moore

Leann Rimes

Elizabeth Hurley

Janet Jackson

Kate Beckinsale

Christina Ricci

Nicole Scherzinger

Crystal Renn

Audry Hepburn

Sally Field

Lily Allen

Kelly Clarkson

Kathy Griffin

Diane Keaton

Thandie Newton

Jessica Alba

Brandy

Kate Moss

Renee Zellweger

 

Some of these women do appear to be "naturally" thin but it looks like it's not "natural" so much.

 

I can find more examples if you like. I also think we can safely bet that a lot of women in Hollywood have eating disorders but don't talk about it publically.

 

When I was at my thinest i was working out a lot and skipping meals. I got lots of compliments for my new body. I got more male attention. I don't people have a real healthy concept of what truly is "natural" and "normal"

 

I remember reading and article about a doctor that was a celebrity doctor. He talked about how many women in Hollywood simply don't live balanced healthy lives. They either don't eat or do extreme dieting all the time. They do clenses and various other methods to keep thin.

 

I bet some of the women on my list are women you may have even thought were "naturally" thin.

[RogerWallace111]

In what world is making a joke about woman needing a bag over her head better then calling a woman a cow???????????????

 

I really don't get you guys. You believe your insults are "better". This board is riddled with post after post about how this girl is hot and that isn't. Men post pictures around here like it's going out of style to talk about the women they like and odn't like. To an extent that women don't. Men talk about how older women are worthless and fat women are useless. Post after post around here is started BY men about women's bodies. But women are the problem. Right.

 

Well Mr. Castle, how about you start a thread talking about and defaming men that talk like crap about women's bodies? I am still waiting for you to explore the ways men treat women and their bodies and the things men buy into themselves.

 

Ignoring my point deliberately ... The intent, tone and context of a guy making a tasteless joke makes it "better" than the intent, tone and context of a woman bitterly putting down another with tangible hatred in her voice. The lack of furiousness makes it better. Like some idiot might tell a stupid, racist joke and that's ****ed up / not respectable, yet i'm not gonna be as taken aback by it as I would some display of cold-hearted, intentionally hateful racism.

 

I have been straight disgusted by several females I know and the viciousness with which they put each other down (often times so-called "friends").

[RogerWallace111]

God damn can't people just be given the slack to be attracted to what they naturally find attractive ? F*ck a list of celebrities.

 

If women are playing into what they think men want, it's sad, but they keep doing it for some reason. Do lots of women wish they could just "let themselves go" and it's simply the judgmental eye of the male gender that keeps them from doing so ? Cause they can feel free. I'm down with a pretty face & fat ass and that's just how it is. No crazy-thin waist necessary, just a beautiful ass and a beautiful face. And my standard of beautiful doesn't have **** to do with hollywood or magazines.

[TheBigQuestion]

Here is a list of women that have suffered with eating disorders and where honest enough to admit it: (it's quite a wide range of women)

 

 

Karen Carpenter

Paula Abdul

Fiona Apple

Justine Bateman

Portia de Rossi

Calista Flockheart

Jane Fonda

Lady Gaga

Tracey Gold

Joan Rivers

Tara Reid

Meredith Viera

Kate Winslet

Alanis Moriseet

Mary Kate Olsen

Nicole Richie

Sharon Osbourne

Geri Halliwell

Wynoona Judd

Oprah Winfrey

Candance Cameron

Jamie-Lynn Sigler

Victoria Beckham

Princess Diana

Demi Lovato

Katherine McPhee

Katie Couric

Stacy London

Lucy Hale

Brittney Spears

Ashlee Simpson

Barbi Twins

Paris Hilton

Whitney Houston

Courtney Cox

Demi Moore

Leann Rimes

Elizabeth Hurley

Janet Jackson

Kate Beckinsale

Christina Ricci

Nicole Scherzinger

Crystal Renn

Audry Hepburn

Sally Field

Lily Allen

Kelly Clarkson

Kathy Griffin

Diane Keaton

Thandie Newton

Jessica Alba

Brandy

Kate Moss

Renee Zellweger

 

Some of these women do appear to be "naturally" thin but it looks like it's not "natural" so much.

 

I can find more examples if you like. I also think we can safely bet that a lot of women in Hollywood have eating disorders but don't talk about it publically.

 

When I was at my thinest i was working out a lot and skipping meals. I got lots of compliments for my new body. I got more male attention. I don't people have a real healthy concept of what truly is "natural" and "normal"

 

I remember reading and article about a doctor that was a celebrity doctor. He talked about how many women in Hollywood simply don't live balanced healthy lives. They either don't eat or do extreme dieting all the time. They do clenses and various other methods to keep thin.

 

I bet some of the women on my list are women you may have even thought were "naturally" thin.

 

You can very easily be naturally thin and still develop various eating disorders. You just need to falsely develop the perception that you are not sufficiently thin. I don't envy what men OR women in the spotlight have to go through.

 

With that said, my point had more to do with the inadequacy of the BMI scale than anything else. The prototypical NFL fullback is "obese" according to the BMI scale, so I don't particularly trust it. If TBF had googled their body fat percentages, or other indicators of health (or lack thereof), I would have taken no issue with what she said.

 

And even with all inferences in your favor, this STILL does not show anything about whether men or women are more likely to tear a woman down for her appearance. All it does is give some insight, far from conclusive insight, mind you, on what some guys like.

 

A man's praise of a woman with certain body characteristics is not an automatic insult to a woman who lacks those characteristics.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Ignoring my point deliberately ... The intent, tone and context of a guy making a tasteless joke makes it "better" than the intent, tone and context of a woman bitterly putting down another with tangible hatred in her voice. The lack of furiousness makes it better. Like some idiot might tell a stupid, racist joke and that's ****ed up / not respectable, yet i'm not gonna be as taken aback by it as I would some display of cold-hearted, intentionally hateful racism.

 

I have been straight disgusted by several females I know and the viciousness with which they put each other down (often times so-called "friends").

 

Sorry but joking about putting a bag over a woman's head who a man considers attractive is so bleeped up. And it's no better then someone calling another woman a cow. INfact, I rather be called a cow then have someone joke about putting a bag over my head.

 

Stop trying to act like the ways men talk about women and their looks and bodies is more noble.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

You can very easily be naturally thin and still develop various eating disorders. You just need to falsely develop the perception that you are not sufficiently thin. I don't envy what men OR women in the spotlight have to go through.

 

With that said, my point had more to do with the inadequacy of the BMI scale than anything else. The prototypical NFL fullback is "obese" according to the BMI scale, so I don't particularly trust it. If TBF had googled their body fat percentages, or other indicators of health (or lack thereof), I would have taken no issue with what she said.

 

And even with all inferences in your favor, this STILL does not show anything about whether men or women are more likely to tear a woman down for her appearance. All it does is give some insight, far from conclusive insight, mind you, on what some guys like.

 

A man's praise of a woman with certain body characteristics is not an automatic insult to a woman who lacks those characteristics.

 

Sure, you can still be naturally thin and eating disorderes. But unless you know the medical history and body type of all these women, that's not really a statement you can make. But please, share with us some actual factual information about people in the business just happening to be "naturally thin". Although, this sounds akin to me as someone over weight saying they are just 'naturally over weight" which is why they can't loose the weight. And I knwo a lot of guys that seem to believe that no woman is naturally over weight.

 

But regardless of this, many women in Hollywood develop unhealth habits for a reason. And it's not because our idea of what women should be is so healthy itself.

 

By the way, I wasn't trying to say anything about who tears women down about their apperance in that last post. That last post was to your comment that you think you know that women in Hollywood are just 'naturally thin", like it's so easy for them. Which I think is a load of nonsense. And if you spend some time doing some research women with eating disorders, you will see that hardly any of them are "naturally" thin.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Disenchantedly Yours

[RogerWallace111]

Sorry but joking about putting a bag over a woman's head who a man considers attractive is so bleeped up. And it's no better then someone calling another woman a cow. INfact, I rather be called a cow then have someone joke about putting a bag over my head.

 

Stop trying to act like the ways men talk about women and their looks and bodies is more noble.

 

Still ignoring my point bud. Swap them then. Guy calls a woman a fat cow, joking, laughing. Girl says "how could he even **** her without putting a bag over her head or something ?" sounding bitterly hateful.

[RogerWallace111]

I will always prefer distasteful humor to anything hurtful spouted by a person who seems to be consumed with anger

[TheBigQuestion]

Sure, you can still be naturally thin and eating disorderes. But unless you know the medical history and body type of all these women, that's not really a statement you can make. But please, share with us some actual factual information about people in the business just happening to be "naturally thin". Although, this sounds akin to me as someone over weight saying they are just 'naturally over weight" which is why they can't loose the weight. And I knwo a lot of guys that seem to believe that no woman is naturally over weight.

 

But regardless of this, many women in Hollywood develop unhealth habits for a reason. And it's not because our idea of what women should be is so healthy itself.

 

By the way, I wasn't trying to say anything about who tears women down about their apperance in that last post. That last post was to your comment that you think you know that women in Hollywood are just 'naturally thin", like it's so easy for them. Which I think is a load of nonsense. And if you spend some time doing some research women with eating disorders, you will see that hardly any of them are "naturally" thin.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a lot of women in Hollywood are naturally thin. Hollywood tends to self-select the "best looking" people of both genders. Unfortunately, various forces in entertainment can contribute to an unhealthy attitude towards weight gain/loss for certain film roles and TV appearances. When this attitude is combined with various other psychological factors, I can see how eating disorders could emerge.

 

Maybe you weren't putting forth that argument, but other posters have been trying to use the fact that BMIs of certain famous women are rather low to prove that men as a whole are more likely to insult women for their appearances than other women are.

[123321]

In my experience women are much meaner spirited than men in this regard. With men it's more thoughtless or offhanded than malicious. Generally.

[somedude81]

I've never heard of the Hollyoaks girls but I'm glad I Googled them

 

Tatiana Ali, pretty girl but she needs more boobs.

 

GAsp! I just harshly criticized a woman

 

I best run and hide before something should hap

 

Funny enough Mr.Castle, in your thread about how women are harsher judges, you and somedude are the only ones that made actually disparging comments about specific women's bodies.

ROFL!

 

That went so far over your head

[threebyfate]

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a lot of women in Hollywood are naturally thin.

This is not a fact. It's something you've made up.

[Els]

You assume that Maxim's top 10 represents the ideal top 10 of the majority of men. I would disagree.

 

I agree with you in general (about Maxim, and what 'men' want, which I think is way more varied than most of us give them credit for), but TBF was making a point that what the OP himself judges as a 'healthy' weight can be very far off the mark. Frankly, large breasts and hips and narrow waists are absolutely not a sound marker of 'health' by any means. It is the lifestyle that attains the body that matters - a 30-24-30 ('stick-thin', according to judgmental folk) or 36-30-35 ('fat whale', according to judgmental folk) woman who eats well, exercises well, and prioritizes her health over her appearance, is more healthy than a 36-25-34 woman who had breast and butt augmentations, goes on fad diets to keep her belly fat nonexistent, and takes amphetamine and smokes to keep her appetite down.

 

Regardless, I think V gets a little too passionate about some things, but I have to agree with her in essence about the rather dubious nature of this thread. What is the purpose of making a thread about how 'harshly' women judge each other, when the OP, a male, is more than happy to take part in such judgments himself? Sure, some women may judge each other even more harshly than he, but that is hardly an excuse to give oneself a pat on the back and continue doing the same.

 

As for 'men', in general, I absolutely agree that not all or even most men share the same attitude towards women's bodies as some of the posters here.

[threebyfate]

Nice summary Elswyth. It surprises me that ThaWholigan would take a side in this thread considering how he's normally one of the more reasonable and objective male members, capable of lifting the hood and knowing when something reeks of b/s.

 

This thread is the same as so many other threads generated by certain male members. Just another opportunity to take a run at women using nothing but anecdotes and opinions. So tired of this. Wish people would view people as individuals and if they have issues with certain women in their pasts, point their poisonous fingers at the individual women instead of the normal, retarded gender bashing.

[xxoo]

Then who does it represent the top 10 ideal for? Who is Maxim made for? Maybe that's also made for women. Because women love cataloging other women in top 100 lists wearing tiny little barely there outfits.

 

Young men. Under 30, and mostly early 20s.

 

It's interesting, I used to subscribe to both Maxim and Playboy a few years back, but have since replaced them with GQ and Esquire. The former just focus on "getting laid" and not much outside of that, the latter assume you've outgrown that and the focus is more on developing yourself as a modern day man.

 

Case in point

 

I bet some of the women on my list are women you may have even thought were "naturally" thin.

 

Naturally thin and eating disorders aren't mutually exclusive. I have no idea about any of those celebrities, but I'm naturally thin, and had an eating disorder in adolescence. My thinness was "prized" by friends and family to the point that I thought it was the best thing about me, and I took it to the extreme. But even at my healthiest--I'm thin.

Edited October 9, 2012 by xxoo

[Eternal Sunshine]

But is there such a thing as naturally thin?

 

There is really no scientific evidence of it.