Best friends for 10 years... now I like him. But he has a girlfriend.

[Phoe]

Me and him have been good friends for 10 years, and best friends for about 6 years. Always there for each other, share everything with each other, nothing comes between us.

 

He has liked me from the moment he saw me the 1st day of high school way back in the day. He always told me how I was the girl who caught his eye from the get go, and he always hoped to make me his. Sadly, I always friend zoned him, but he accepted it and has been very respectful towards me about never making me feel obligated when all I wanted was friendship. But he occasionally would let it known that he still felt strongly for me, and pretty much hated every guy I've ever dated. But I never doubted that he adored me... I am a very strange person, I am very weird and awkward and he always said he loved that about me, and he would always tell me what a beautiful person I am, and that he hopes I never EVER change who I am, for anyone.

 

3 years ago he decided to finally get a girlfriend. I was happy for him... until only a few months into their relationship when she started acting VERY nasty towards me and telling him that he could not be friends with me anymore (he didn't listen). I have never met her, but she would always say terrible things about me, saying I look like a complete slut, getting her friends who don't even know me to jump on the bandwagon and bash me. Both me and him thought this was just a terrible way for any woman to act, but still he has stayed with her for 3 years.

 

I don't understand... for 2.5 years I've listened to him complain about how lousy a girlfriend she is to him and how unhappy he is. I always told him "Then break up with her!!" but he started with these excuses about how she hadn't done anything terrible (like cheating) to warrant him breaking up with her. I told him that simply being unhappy in a relationship is a perfectly good reason to end it. They did break up a few times but she always "weaseled her way back in" (his exact words).

 

About 6 months ago I started developing feelings towards him, and of course I wanted to kick myself. He adored me for 10 years and now that he's got a gf of 3 years NOW I wanna have feelings??? So I didn't tell him. I kept it to myself.... until one day about 3 months ago when he asked me if I'd ever thought about what it would be like to be together. I decided to be honest and told him yes. He was stunned. Flabbergasted. Didn't know what to do or say, but I told him "yeah, you've got a gf and I don't expect you to just up and leave that on a whim"

 

Well, 3 months later our talks have gotten a lot more serious. He talks about a future with me, we talk about fun things we want to do together. And having been best friends all these years we already know everything about each other, we don't need to go through the "getting to know each other" phase, we know that our personalities click. The only problem? He still has this gf that he claims to be miserable with. He was always saying how he would leave her, and it seemed reasonable considering that for 3 years he's done nothing but complain about her. His reasoning now for not breaking up with her yet? He owes her $1000. He doesn't feel comfortable just tossing her aside without paying her back first. I decided OK, I'll be patient here, I'll give you time to get that money together and do things in a way that makes you feel comfortable.

 

Yes, all those thoughts of "Girl he's playing you he just wants to have his cake and eat it too" and "he just wants to use you" and "he's not planning on leaving her" have all run through my head. I've told him this. I say "you realize how bad this looks right? You realize how difficult it is for me to push aside these thoughts that you're screwing me over?" and I tell him that of course it would be easier for him to be a coward and string me along than to just be brutally honest with me. I told him to be straightforward with me. He said he can understand why I would think he's being shady, and that he knows he looks like a jerk, but that he hopes after 10 years of being best friends that I would trust him enough to believe he's being honest with me.

 

We have not done anything physically intimate. I have point blank refused to let anything go beyond just talking about the possibility of a relationship between us, and even just THAT makes me feel guilty. Even though I dislike this girl, think she's terrible for him, and do not like the catty way she's treated me all these years, I have been in her situation and have NEVER wanted to be the other woman. So I just keep telling him "If you want me, you'll have to leave her. That's that."

 

Last week he came across some car trouble. So he bought a new engine for it. Guess how much it cost? $1000.

 

oh. OH. So you had $1000 just sitting around to be able to pay for your new engine, but were saying you couldn't break it off with your gf because you didn't have the $1000 you owed her? He doesn't know that I know about him buying the engine. He told me he was looking into this new engine, but I only found out that he bought it from a comment on facebook. Clearly he had money...

 

All along I was being patient with him believing this was just a money issue, trusting him based off being best friends since we were 13. Something in this whole story is just not adding up.

 

I haven't spoken to him in about a week. I figure it's for the best. Either he gets the point that I'm not gonna sit around and wait for him to figure this stuff out, or I get to finally move past my feelings so we can go back to being friends. It's hard enough having feelings for him knowing that he's sleeping with her every night, but it's harder knowing that I might lose my best friend because of this situation.

 

Maybe I should've said "No" when he asked me if I'd ever thought of us together. I should've just lied to keep things safe...

 

Words of advice? Things to consider? This situation is WAY too complicated and involved for me to be able to think about it clearly anymore.

[Phoe]

O______O

 

That message is alot longer than I thought it was. Oyyy...

[MilitantPacifist]

You friend-zoned the dude for *ten years*.

 

It's your turn to spend some time in the back of the line.

 

If you don't actually love him enough to deal with that, see Greznog's message.

[freestyle]

Let's fast forward here a bit, Phoe.

 

Let's say you get your wish.........you & he become a couple.

 

Are you going to be cool about him having any close female friends?

 

His actions have already demonstrated that he won't think twice about bad-mouthing a girlfriend behind her back to his other friends. So----someday you may end up in that exact same position his present girlfriend is in.

 

Did it occur to you, that maybe he paints her in a negative light, to milk others for attention & sympathy?

 

I personally think it's incredibly crappy that he would trash her behind her back---when she cared enough to loan him a substantial amount of money. I view that as a big statement about his character.

[Phoe]

well like I said, I cut off contact. It's unfortunate but it was becoming clear this just wasn't gonna work.

 

Not sure what greznog means with "all these harpies coming out of the woodwork" as no one is being a harpie, and i'm certainly not coming out of the woodwork, I've been here, being his best friend, all this time. There was never a lack of attention, we spoke every day. I simply started developing feelings for him.

 

As far as him having female friends? I would not mind. I have never been the kind of girl to have a problem with my past boyfriends having female friends. As long as things are kept safe and appropriate, I have no qualms about who my boyfriends are friends with or who they hang out with or talk with regularly. Maybe I'm weird.

 

But in any case, this is a done deal. None of it is good for anyone.

[Phoe]

His actions have already demonstrated that he won't think twice about bad-mouthing a girlfriend behind her back to his other friends. So----someday you may end up in that exact same position his present girlfriend is in.

 

Did it occur to you, that maybe he paints her in a negative light, to milk others for attention & sympathy?

 

He doesn't talk about her like that to anyone else but me. All his friends and family think that he's happy with her. They notice that there's a lot of fighting between them, but he doesn't discuss that with them. They're all pushing him to propose to her and he absolutely hates it.

 

Not saying any of this is right, at all. But he keeps quiet about her to everyone else.

[freestyle]

 

As far as him having female friends? I would not mind. I have never been the kind of girl to have a problem with my past boyfriends having female friends. As long as things are kept safe and appropriate, I have no qualms about who my boyfriends are friends with or who they hang out with or talk with regularly. Maybe I'm weird.

 

But in any case, this is a done deal. None of it is good for anyone.

 

This is what I was hinting at---he's already demonstrated that he would have no qualms about bad-mouthing a girlfriend to a female friend---that WAS very inappropriate on his part.

 

If you can--- try to imagine how you would feel if you had a boyfriend who went running & griping to one of his female friends, every time the two of you hit a rough patch. How would you feel about a woman you didn't even know, knowing about deeply personal things in your life?

 

I also find it very suspect that he never introduced you to his girlfriend, especially since it turned out to be a long-term relationship. If you were his "best" friend---why on earth wouldn't he want to share that part of his life with you?

 

If you can---try to put yourself in her shoes for a moment...(even though you don't like her)

 

Imagine your bf has a female best friend but is being guarded about introducing you to her. What would you think, how would you feel?

This is someone your bf talks to daily--but he doesn't want you to meet her?

 

It's no wonder she was insecure & jealous---HE created that dynamic.

(and then plays "poor me, my gf is so insecure & jealous".... )Oh, the poor martyr..........

 

He was creating a drama triangle--where he cast himself in the role of the "victim"---painted his girlfriend as "the persecutor/villain" and was looking to YOU to play "the rescuer". If you're not familiar with Karpmans' Drama Triangle---look it up, it could be very eye-opening. It was for me.

 

I'm pointing this out to you---because I dated a guy who played that exact same game with me---the difference being that *I* was the steady girlfriend, who thought I was in a committed, exclusive, good relationship.

(we never fought)

 

So when I met one his female friends for the first time---and she was weird towards me, from the get-go.....it got my hackles up. I gave her more than a fair chance, but she made sure I knew that he'd told HER 'all about' our relationship--and she couldn't find anything good to say about it. It dawned on me that he was telling her very different things than he was telling me.

It was a total mind f*ck.

 

(I'm not insinuating that you were being like the friend in my scenario---I just want to point out that the one playing puppet-master, and yanking people's strings behind the scenes is usually the guy. (or the women when the genders are reversed.)

 

I don't want you to view this as me bashing you, it's not my intention, Phoe. I'm trying to present another angle that you may not have considered. I also hate to see anyone get sucked into this kind of dysfunctional relationship dynamic, as it turns out painful for everyone involved.

 

Be wary of men who run down their partners, behind their backs, looking for sympathy..........If they'll gossip TO you, eventually they'll gossip ABOUT you. Someday that could be YOUR dirty laundry getting aired in your absence.

[Phoe]

This is what I was hinting at---he's already demonstrated that he would have no qualms about bad-mouthing a girlfriend to a female friend---that WAS very inappropriate on his part.

 

If you can--- try to imagine how you would feel if you had a boyfriend who went running & griping to one of his female friends, every time the two of you hit a rough patch. How would you feel about a woman you didn't even know, knowing about deeply personal things in your life?

 

I also find it very suspect that he never introduced you to his girlfriend, especially since it turned out to be a long-term relationship. If you were his "best" friend---why on earth wouldn't he want to share that part of his life with you?

 

If you can---try to put yourself in her shoes for a moment...(even though you don't like her)

 

Imagine your bf has a female best friend but is being guarded about introducing you to her. What would you think, how would you feel?

This is someone your bf talks to daily--but he doesn't want you to meet her?

 

He was creating a drama triangle--where he cast himself in the role of the "victim"---painted his girlfriend as "the persecutor/villain" and was looking to YOU to play "the rescuer". If you're not familiar with Karpmans' Drama Triangle---look it up, it could be very eye-opening. It was for me.

 

I'm pointing this out to you---because I dated a guy who played that exact same game with me---the difference being that *I* was the steady girlfriend, who thought I was in a committed, exclusive, good relationship.

(we never fought)

 

So when I met one his female friends for the first time---and she was weird towards me, from the get-go.....it got my hackles up. I gave her more than a fair chance, but she made sure I knew that he'd told HER 'all about' our relationship--and she couldn't find anything good to say about it. It dawned on me that he was telling her very different things than he was telling me.

It was a total mind f*ck.

 

(I'm not insinuating that you were being like the friend in my scenario---I just want to point out that the one playing puppet-master, and yanking people's strings behind the scenes is usually the guy. (or the women when the genders are reversed.)

 

I don't want you to view this as me bashing you, it's not my intention, Phoe. I'm trying to present another angle that you may not have considered. I also hate to see anyone get sucked into this kind of dysfunctional relationship dynamic, as it turns out painful for everyone involved.

 

Be wary of men who run down their partners, behind their backs, looking for sympathy..........If they'll gossip TO you, eventually they'll gossip ABOUT you. Someday that could be YOUR dirty laundry getting aired in your absence.

 

I appreciate your replies to this, I do not view you as bashing me at all, you are the only one here who did try to give me constructive advice on this thread.

 

He wanted us to meet from the get go. She refused to meet me. He WANTED his girlfriend and best friend to get along. The minute she saw my profile picture on facebook she flipped out and went "eww, she looks slutty" - great first impression here. He said "No, she's my best friend and she's a great person, you'd probably like her" So he continually suggested that we both meet so that she could put her negative feelings aside, and every single time she ended up not going along with it. She has harassed me over facebook, I have 100% personal evidence between me and her that she is an unreasonable person. In no way has he "painted this picture of himself being a victim" - I have seen with my own eyes the way she acts. And when she did harass me, I didn't harass her back, I'd simply tell her that the way she treats me is no way for any human being to act and that I hope she would think back on her actions and realize that what she was doing was unacceptable. Which led to more screaming on her part. He even asked me to please just put aside my hurt at the way she had treated me and just basically kiss her butt to try and patch things up so that maybe he could have his pipe-dream of the both of us being able to hang out with him together. But, once again, it didn't work.

 

Also, it was never him "bashing" or "trashing" her. He never said foul or trashy things about her... it just got to the point where when she was doing something lousy or upsetting to him, once he'd talked to HER about it and got nowhere, he felt like going to his best friend to vent about the unhappy relationship was the only place where he could get his feelings out. It was never bad-mouthing

 

We both have put ourselves in EVERYONE elses shoes in this situation, we both tried to be sensitive to everyone's feelings involved. Even though I DO NOT LIKE HER AT ALL, I never have wanted to cause her harm and I made that clear to him as well. The one thing I hate about this is that, as the other woman, I automatically get painted as selfish or insensitive to others, which is untrue. I've already analyzed every aspect from every angle and every which way the guilt is sickening. Even when I started realizing that I liked him I kept it to myself for months, and NEVER planned on telling him, because I didn't think it would be right to just spring that on him when he's taken. It was only when he asked me if I had feelings for him that I finally just went for honesty and said yes. But I never expected THIS... and as far as selfishness goes, there is nothing selfish about cutting off a relationship that you want, just to save the hearts of everyone else involved. I stopped it for HER benefit, for the benefit of the friends and family who like them together, for HIS benefit of not having to feel torn. If anything, I've chosen the most selfless option possible from this bad situation.

 

Is it really that impossible for a situation to really be like this? That a man is stuck in a bad relationship due to money issues, that the girlfriend REALLY IS bad for him, and that all parties involved have done their best to try and do things the right way?

 

Could he do all this back to me? Yes. But so could anyone. Any relationship with any person, has no guarantees. I could be with a guy who never cheated or went behind the back of a girlfriend, but I could be the first one he does it to. It is likely? No. But it could happen. Could I get with a guy who's done nothing BUT cheat and end up being the one girl he finally learned his lesson for and remains faithful to? Yes. Not likely. But anything can happen when it comes to relationships. I don't like to look at relationships as being what COULD happen and what I need to make rules about to PREVENT happening. I won't make rules or try to control who a man hangs out with or talks to. I let it be known to him that if he screws me over, that I will be gone, but I give him the freedom to do what he wants. I give a man all the freedom and space necessary for him to easily screw me over if he wanted, but EXPECT him to still do the right thing. I expect a man to WANT to do the right thing with me. There is no point in telling a man what he can and can't do, causing unhappiness and trust issues in a relationship, because if the man wants to cheat, he will cheat, regardless of whatever I told him to do. So when a man gets all the freedom in the world and cheats on me? I leave him. He lost out on a good thing.

 

The ONLY exception is that I would not want to be with a cheater. My friend has not cheated on his girlfriend. Neither of us would ever do that. Although, according to her, everytime he hangs out with me it's cheating in her eyes. Me and him go bowling, and its cheating. She could've come and bowled WITH US, but she refused. Some people say that if he was a good boyfriend that he would pay attention to her wishes and stop hanging out with me if that bothers her, but I think that constantly bending your will to appease a significant other is unhealthy. There's give and take, there's compromise, but if a woman thinks that her man should go so far as to cut off a friend just because she dislikes that friend, if he personally finds that unreasonable, then they are just not compatible. Point blank.

 

But once it came down to the money issue, I realized that he is stalling ending it with her. He told me he is stalling because he is afraid of hurting her, afraid of what her family will think, afraid of what HIS family and friends will think, is afraid that everyone will think badly towards me and paint me in a negative light. It's all the usual stuff, and it may all just be excuses, there has never been a point in all this where I didn't consider that perhaps I have been TOTALLY blinded and that nothing is what is seems, but I trust the man I know. We grew up together and he has ALWAYS been one of the kindest and truest people I have ever known. Hurting people, lying, doing the wrong thing - it all makes him feel sick. In our previous chats, he's made it clear how much it's tearing him up feeling like no matter what, he's being a bad person. Both of us have owned up to the fact that this is a terrible situation that we caused, and no one's to blame for this situation but ourselves... but we are not bad people, and we are not of bad character.

 

So regardless if any of this is just an exceptional circumstance or if I was just blinded and foolish, cutting it off was the right thing. I'm either saving myself from being played, or saving everyone else from being torn apart.

[Phoe]

Oh please, you act like you're completely innocent not knowing what you're doing.Done that.

Did you even read what I wrote? Looks to me like you skimmed and only took notice of the parts you WANTED to notice.

Both of us have owned up to the fact that this is a terrible situation that we caused, and no one's to blame for this situation but ourselves

 

 

2 years ago when he mentioned having problems with his girl, seeking advice, I did tell him that he should talk with her and be open and honest about what is upsetting him, and gave him advice on how to go about trying to work things out with her, as this is his 1st relationship and he had no prior experience with these things. It was only AFTER he had tried talking with her and got nowhere and that I suggested that perhaps he would be happier if he ended it and moved on instead dragging out the frequent fights and bickering. Please note that this was 2 years ago. This was not when I had romantic feelings for him, I had a boyfriend of my own of 2 years at this time, and him breaking up with her would have had no benefit for me.

 

Apparently when a girl ends up in this situation, there is NOTHING she can do that looks like the right thing in other peoples eyes. I decide to cut things off and I get "LOL you were just a jealous ho, you didn't actually want him" - had I stayed on determined to have him and hound him to leave his girlfriend and initiate intimacy I'd get "LOL what a homewrecker, what a sleaze, you have no morals, SHAME ON YOU" - I am doing what I think is right in this scenario, regardless of what I want or feel, I'm leaving the man be.

 

I have no control over who I fall for. I wish I did, surely would make life a whole lot easier. Obviously girls who fall for their guy friends who already have girlfriends are bad people.

 

I've clearly made very horrible life mistakes in comparison to you other flawless beings. Have any of you ever made a bad move in the love department? Probably not. What a joke.

[MilitantPacifist]

I've clearly made very horrible life mistakes in comparison to you other flawless beings. Have any of you ever made a bad move in the love department? Probably not. What a joke.

 

Everyone makes mistakes. Not everyone is shallow.

 

You come here asking advice because your friend of 10 years is suddenly supposedly causing butterflies in your stomach.

 

Then rather than taking everyone's advice and just be patient since he was patient with his love for you, you not only don't pursue him, you cut off contact with your "friend" of 10 years at the slightest provocation.

 

That, my dear, is shallow and heartless. It confirms everyone's suspicion that you only want him now because you can't have him anymore at your whim. You're not feeling love, you're feeling envy because someone else took your toy.

 

On the bright side though since you were this heartless it's clear he's better off not even being your friend.

 

So kudos to you for making the right move, for the wrong reason. Thumbs up.

[Phoe]

I would appreciate if there were no further comments that are purely rude and of no help to me. I posted in this sub-forum for a reason. "Progressing into "Friends with benefits" and beyond: When platonic relationships become more intimate." - I am currently dealing with a platonic relationship that led to more intimate feelings for me, and wish to discuss this with others who have experienced this, or those who have helpful advice to give. Criticism is fine, as long as it is constructive. "You're an attention seeker, you're a drama queen, you would sell your soul to stroke your ego" does not help me, nor does it help you.

 

Perhaps this thread would do better in the "Other Woman" subforum, perhaps there I would find more support and kind words to help me deal with this emotionally stressful time.

 

I suggest that people read the Community Guidelines section, specifically the "Civility and Respect" portion. Character attacks are not tolerated, and comments that border so strongly on being demeaning and disrespectful will be reported.

[Phoe]

Everyone makes mistakes. Not everyone is shallow.

 

You come here asking advice because your friend of 10 years is suddenly supposedly causing butterflies in your stomach.

 

Then rather than taking everyone's advice and just be patient since he was patient with his love for you, you not only don't pursue him, you cut off contact with your "friend" of 10 years at the slightest provocation.

 

That, my dear, is shallow and heartless. It confirms everyone's suspicion that you only want him now because you can't have him anymore at your whim. You're not feeling love, you're feeling envy because someone else took your toy.

 

On the bright side though since you were this heartless it's clear he's better off not even being your friend.

 

So kudos to you for making the right move, for the wrong reason. Thumbs up.

 

I did not cut him off out the blue, I discussed this with him, that for the time being it's best that we have time apart to get our heads on straight. He was sad, but agreed that it would be the best choice to save our friendship. We both know that once we can think clearly and move past this emotional rollercoaster of a time that we can be friends again.

 

I am not shallow and heartless, I am NOT about to just let something ruin the best friendship I ever had, and I resent such blatantly wrong and uninformed assumptions on your part.

[Phoe]

Then rather than taking everyone's advice and just be patient since he was patient with his love for you, you not only don't pursue him, you cut off contact with your "friend" of 10 years at the slightest provocation.

 

At no point was this advice given to me.

[Phoe]

If anything, the only advice I've been given is that I'm wrong, he's wrong, and all I'm doing is being an attention seeking drama queen who doesn't really want him, and he's just a bad character too since he's the kinda guy who would throw me under the bus anyway.

[Phoe]

You friend-zoned the dude for *ten years*.

 

It's your turn to spend some time in the back of the line.

 

If you don't actually love him enough to deal with that, see Greznog's message.

 

This is the only thing even CLOSE to what you mentioned about being patient. I will admit I took this a totally different way.

 

I took it as "oh hey look, Karma sucks huh, you rejected him so now he's rejecting you, eat it up hun!"

 

If you meant it in a way that I should be patient for him, that did not get across to me at all.

[MilitantPacifist]

This is the only thing even CLOSE to what you mentioned about being patient. I will admit I took this a totally different way.

 

I took it as "oh hey look, Karma sucks huh, you rejected him so now he's rejecting you, eat it up hun!"

 

If you meant it in a way that I should be patient for him, that did not get across to me at all.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I meant by "spend some time at the back of the line, he deserves it." (paraphrasing a bit)

 

I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt here. But your additional posts ruined it for me.

[MilitantPacifist]

If anything, the only advice I've been given is that I'm wrong, he's wrong, and all I'm doing is being an attention seeking drama queen who doesn't really want him, and he's just a bad character too since he's the kinda guy who would throw me under the bus anyway.

 

Yeah, because I'm sure you've never bitched about your boyfriend or girlfriends to other people, so naturally him doing so makes him a bad guy. Right.

[Phoe]

Yeah, because I'm sure you've never bitched about your boyfriend or girlfriends to other people, so naturally him doing so makes him a bad guy. Right.

 

I was being sarcastic. Surely you caught that.

[Phoe]

I do not think he's a bad guy at all for complaining about his relationship. Everyone needs to vent. If nobody ever needed to vent about problems in their relationships this entire forum wouldn't even exist.

[Phoe]

So what do I do.

 

Everything I've done so far is a "LOL you made the wrong move"

 

What is the right move now.

[Million.to.1]

To be really honest, and despite some of the more derogatory comments made about you, there is still some truth in the above comments which i think you should at least examine a little before moving forward.

 

I don't think you should have been continually discussing a "future" with him or any sort of relationship beyond your friendship, despite the revelation of your feelings. He is in a relationship and regardless of how much he complains to you about it, he still is in it. I think this is crossing serious boundaries. If he is not being honest with her, I would actually think he is not being honest with you either.

 

I can also understand why his GF hates you for "no" reason. Her boyfriend clearly holds a massive flame for you and you cannot blame her for her own, totally justified, intuitive feelings of something not being quite right there. Especially as he talks about her to you. She probably knows that he always shares his problems with you and your his "go to girl" when they've had a fight, and that makes her very uneasy, and rightly so.

 

You don't know for sure that he is as unhappy in the relationship as he makes out to you either. You really need to consider this.

 

 

Even if he gets out of the relationship and wants to be with you, It wouldn't be wise for you both to jump straight into one. He needs some time to sort his head out... and I really think you do to.

 

In the long run... putting ideas of being together to rest having a break from each other and the friendship too would probably be what i would suggest.

Maybe you can revisit friendship or even a relationship down the line, but right now, there are too many complications and immaturity from all parties involved for this to go well.

 

I'm 10 years older than you and I can tell you now. At 23, you are still young. True friends and people who will be in your life forever can disappear for a little while, while life's dusts settle. It will be like no time has passed.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Million.to.1

[freestyle]

 

I can also understand why his GF hates you for "no" reason. Her boyfriend clearly holds a massive flame for you and you cannot blame her for her own, totally justified, intuitive feelings of something not being quite right there. Especially as he talks about her to you. She probably knows that he always shares his problems with you and your his "go to girl" when they've had a fight, and that makes her very uneasy, and rightly so.

 

You don't know for sure that he is as unhappy in the relationship as he makes out to you either. You really need to consider this.

 

 

This is kind of the point I was getting at, too---

 

It's hard to grasp it, until you've been in her ( your friend's gf's) position.

 

The truth is ---more often than not--with super close opposite sex friends, one or the other is harboring feelings that are more than platonic. I think it's incredibly rare when that isn't the case.

 

(and had someone said that to me when I was in my twenties, or early thirties, even I would have vehemently disagreed)

 

Now that I'm older, I believe differently....partly based on observations IRL, and years of reading here on LS. I've seen a lot of romantic relationships go through a lot of strain, because one party insists on keeping a close emotional connection with an opposite sex friend.

 

Talking daily, and hanging out together, frequently, like you were doing with your friend, falls into that category. And it will take time & energy away from the primary romantic relationship, when it's that close of a connection.

So jealousy is normal, and justified when that happens.

 

Phoe, his gf KNOWS that there are more than platonic feelings happening, and she's justified in feeling threatened by your presence in his life. Especially since the two of you were in continual communication.

Of course she's stressed out by it.

And for him to discuss ANY of their personal business with you, was a breach of boundaries. She KNOWS she's getting put on trial in her absence.

 

At some point, as we mature--we realize we have to give our romantic relationships full, and first priority. I'm not saying each party has to ditch all of their friends altogether--but the friends need to understand that the dynamics have to, and will change.

[Phoe]

To be really honest, and despite some of the more derogatory comments made about you, there is still some truth in the above comments which i think you should at least examine a little before moving forward.

 

I don't think you should have been continually discussing a "future" with him or any sort of relationship beyond your friendship, despite the revelation of your feelings. He is in a relationship and regardless of how much he complains to you about it, he still is in it. I think this is crossing serious boundaries. If he is not being honest with her, I would actually think he is not being honest with you either.

 

I can also understand why his GF hates you for "no" reason. Her boyfriend clearly holds a massive flame for you and you cannot blame her for her own, totally justified, intuitive feelings of something not being quite right there. Especially as he talks about her to you. She probably knows that he always shares his problems with you and your his "go to girl" when they've had a fight, and that makes her very uneasy, and rightly so.

 

You don't know for sure that he is as unhappy in the relationship as he makes out to you either. You really need to consider this.

 

 

Even if he gets out of the relationship and wants to be with you, It wouldn't be wise for you both to jump straight into one. He needs some time to sort his head out... and I really think you do to.

 

In the long run... putting ideas of being together to rest having a break from each other and the friendship too would probably be what i would suggest.

Maybe you can revisit friendship or even a relationship down the line, but right now, there are too many complications and immaturity from all parties involved for this to go well.

 

I'm 10 years older than you and I can tell you now. At 23, you are still young. True friends and people who will be in your life forever can disappear for a little while, while life's dusts settle. It will be like no time has passed.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Thanks you, I really do appreciate receiving honest insight that isn't filled with callousness. I can tell that your intention is only to help. Thank you.

 

You're right, it was wrong to discuss a future while he was with her. I felt guilty but it did not stop me. I know if was harmful, but I do not wish harm upon her.

 

She would have every right to hate me now, I think. In the past I found it unreasonable, but there was nothing I could do about it. I wish that my attempts to be friendly with her were more well received, or that she at least wouldn't have resorted to harassing me and calling me foul names when I'd done nothing. But now? I know I deserve no niceness from her. I know this.

 

I highly doubt that I'm wrong that their relationship has become unhappy, but it is a possibility. There's just so much firsthand evidence. It's not just stuff he tells me, it's stuff I've seen and heard from her. I see the nasty things she posts to him on Facebook when she's mad. I've been there when he's received phone calls from her, where she just screams at him through the phone and he just takes it from her, knowing that there's nothing he can do that will calm her down. I've watched the resent and disrespect grow between him, and it does hurt my heart to see him so lost. I know he did love her, maybe he still does.

 

I know I'm a bit socially inept. I know that the things I do or say might come off as completely stupid, but that is not my intention. I am VERY much so a recluse. Other than him, I have one other friend. My previous attempts at being social and having close friends ended badly. I just don't connect well with people. And not only has he been here for 10 years, he has never once judged me. He has supported me and accepted these things about me and says he just adores me that much more for it. Some people will say that cutting off contact is the wrong thing to do, but that's the way I do things, he KNOWS that's the way I do things and knows that in the end it is what is best for us.

 

He truly is one of the kindest souls I have ever met. He does such much, for so many people, even those who don't deserve it (and perhaps I don't deserve it either). I see the way he acts with friends, family, and strangers. He puts others first all the time and truly strives to be a good person, and it is so terrible to see people here saying that he is a bad person because of the disrespect that has cropped up in his current relationship. I truly believe that the reason he acts like this is a direct result of being in a failing relationship that is filled with resentment and an ongoing problem of always feeling belittled by her. He does not treat people badly, it is not like him to act this way and I know that it is hurting him. He feels like an *******, he feels like a jerk, and it sickens him.

 

But after 10 years of knowing each other inside and out and knowing what a wonderful person he is, I realized that he is what I want. All these years I dated other guys and hurt him, and then came back and wondered "why are these relationships not working? why am I always ending up with jerks who cheat on me and use me? gee I'm so dumb" when right there in front of my face was what was perfect for me. Perhaps I deserve to lose him for being so stupid all these years and not seeing it sooner, but I hoped that it would not be too late. We used to joke that if we both reached the age of 30 and weren't married that we would just marry each other, and run off to some remote wilderness to build an animal sanctuary to host special case animals. We said that years ago, I've thought of it often of the years, and still to this day the thought of doing that with him warms my heart, I can think of no better way to spend my life.

 

In all of our 10 years, we have never once fought. We have never had problems with one another. Sure, when we were kids he used to tease me and push my buttons and annoy me the way young boys do when they like a girl, but I could never stay mad at him, he always charmed me into smiling and laughing again. And even now, we don't ever get mad or upset at one another over things. If we disagree on something, we both respect and understand each other to move past that without issues. The compatibility is really there.

 

I finally broke down this afternoon. I have been crying for almost 2 hours nonstop. I'm sure people will say that this is me just being even more of an attention seeker and a drama queen. It doesn't matter though, because at this point I don't think I can feel any lower. I've been told that everything I've done is wrong, that I'm heartless and shallow, and that I'm a terrible friend and it has essentially been implied that he must be much better off without a horrible person like me. It kills me to think that I might've not only ruined my chance with him, but that I may have ruined our friendship. Maybe he would be better without me. I know that right now he wants me in his life, but maybe in the longrun he'd end up happier with someone else. Maybe I'm just selfish and a parasite...

 

I never expected that coming to this site would lead to me feeling so beaten down. I'd hoped I might receive helpful words to get me through this hard time. The both of us are hurting through this, and now I can't help but feel like I've ruined everything. This feeling absolutely kills me

[Phoe]

This is kind of the point I was getting at, too---

 

It's hard to grasp it, until you've been in her ( your friend's gf's) position.

 

The truth is ---more often than not--with super close opposite sex friends, one or the other is harboring feelings that are more than platonic. I think it's incredibly rare when that isn't the case.

 

(and had someone said that to me when I was in my twenties, or early thirties, even I would have vehemently disagreed)

 

Now that I'm older, I believe differently....partly based on observations IRL, and years of reading here on LS. I've seen a lot of romantic relationships go through a lot of strain, because one party insists on keeping a close emotional connection with an opposite sex friend.

 

Talking daily, and hanging out together, frequently, like you were doing with your friend, falls into that category. And it will take time & energy away from the primary romantic relationship, when it's that close of a connection.

So jealousy is normal, and justified when that happens.

 

Phoe, his gf KNOWS that there are more than platonic feelings happening, and she's justified in feeling threatened by your presence in his life. Especially since the two of you were in continual communication.

Of course she's stressed out by it.

And for him to discuss ANY of their personal business with you, was a breach of boundaries. She KNOWS she's getting put on trial in her absence.

 

At some point, as we mature--we realize we have to give our romantic relationships full, and first priority. I'm not saying each party has to ditch all of their friends altogether--but the friends need to understand that the dynamics have to, and will change.

 

Thank you again, for responding respectfully

 

Even thought we did disagree with her seemingly violent hatred of me, we compromised with her. She wanted me out of his life completely, gone for good, and while that was unacceptable for us, we established boundaries that we hoped would be sufficient for her.

 

We limited the times we could chat to Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursday mornings, because those are the times she would be busy with school and not able to spend time with him. Thursday nights, Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays are strictly no contact between me and him. Those are the times when she is out of school and she stays with him and she is the sole focus.

 

We spend time face to face only about once a month, ALWAYS in a public place (bowling alley or starbucks usually) and during appropriate daytime hours. We NEVER hang out at either of our houses and he is always home early, and is in contact with her steadily during the times when he is out with me. We thought that this was a great compromise for her to feel like her wishes were being respected, without him and I feeling like our wishes were totally trampled on.

 

She never had to like me. But respect would have been nice. We truly did give her respect.

 

But, of course, she was very hypocritical herself. She would often go out and get drunk and party with boys that he does not know, has never met, and doesn't even know their names. She stays out til 3 am with these boys and when he mentions to her how hypocritical it is, she goes off on him. He's been under the impression that she's trying to line up a new boyfriend and is only waiting until that's set until she breaks it off with him. Yes, he may be doing the same thing. I'm just saying that she is not the innocent little angel people seem to make her out to be. NOBODY here is an innocent angel. All of this is a big mess and I'm at fault.

 

All of this is just completely and utterfly heartwrenching

[Phoe]

It's hard to grasp it, until you've been in her ( your friend's gf's) position.

 

The truth is ---more often than not--with super close opposite sex friends, one or the other is harboring feelings that are more than platonic. I think it's incredibly rare when that isn't the case.

 

I have been in her shoes before, and while it wasn't "easy" I didn't let it destroy my relationship with him, and I didn't resent her. None of that was her fault...

 

I was in a relationship where I knew that he adored his close friend. I had comforted him in the past when she rejected him. He did not hide his feelings from me about her, he'd say "Yes, I love Sydney, and I probably always will, but that doesn't mean I can't love you and have a happy relationship with you" - and I agreed. We were happy together, we had fun, we were open and trusting, and him and Sydney hung out every Sunday and I never resented her for it. She really was a nice girl.

 

In the end, this guy cheated on me (random hookup, not Sydney) and we ended it. Years later he is finally with Sydney and I am very happy for him, he always loved her and they are wonderful together.