Author BetheButterfly Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) your religion or your background should not be a factor when it comes humanitarian work. honer killings, acid attacks, also happen within Christian communities. stop crediting them as "Christians" who do good! You didn't answer my question. I answered your accusation of me though. I have been in Christian "communities" all my life. Not once have I ever experienced honor killings or acid attacks within my Christian community. What I do experience a lot is many "Christians" turning their back on the faith and becoming ex-Christians, but that is fine. That is their choice and their right to do so. I whole-heartedly defend their right to do so. Edited October 10, 2012 by BetheButterfly Link to post Share on other sites
irin Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 You didn't answer my question. I answered your accusation of me though. I have been in Christian "communities" all my life. Not once have I ever experienced honor killings or acid attacks within my Christian community. What I do experience a lot is many "Christians" turning their back on the faith and becoming ex-Christians, but that is fine. That is their choice and their right to do so. I whole-heartedly defend their right to do so. there have been many cases of honor killings in latin america, also in italy their used be the so called crimes of passion. what you want to what i do? i work with refugees. not feel better about myself or give back. i just do it because its my duty as a human being. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 there have been many cases of honor killings in latin america, also in italy their used be the so called crimes of passion. what you want to what i do? i work with refugees. not feel better about myself or give back. i just do it because its my duty as a human being. If you work with refugees, do you respect their beliefs? Or do you bash them for their beliefs? About honor killings in Latin American or Italy, I am not Latin American or Italian. I'm an American from the USA. My husband is Latin American and a Christian, and i have never heard anything about Christian men in Latin America (Ecuador) throwing acid in the faces of others or doing honor killings. I will research that and will also ask him about it. Back to the point of this thread, which I would like to ask you to respect, is let's continue to do what we can to help girls like Malala. Peace and Goodbye. Link to post Share on other sites
irin Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 If you work with refugees, do you respect their beliefs? Or do you bash them for their beliefs? About honor killings in Latin American or Italy, I am not Latin American or Italian. I'm an American from the USA. My husband is Latin American and a Christian, and i have never heard anything about Christian men in Latin America (Ecuador) throwing acid in the faces of others or doing honor killings. I will research that and will also ask him about it. Back to the point of this thread, which I would like to ask you to respect, is let's continue to do what we can to help girls like Malala. Peace and Goodbye. i have members of own family who follow a few different religions there no reason not respect people. only when they act like their better then everyone else. it doesnt matter where you come from, i was talking about Christians in general. there men the uk who who acids in the face of women. its not a RELIGIOUS issue stop making about Christianity. sometimes. it happens because a girl is beautiful. or rejects the guy. or cheats. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 We are the only species on the planet where one gender actively, purposely and deliberately acts in a way to suppress, dominate and subjugate its opposite gender, through all manner of means - devious, underhanded, deceitful, foul, gruesome, inhuman and barbaric. There is no 'fair' means of doing this. No other species on the planet is so minded to do this - because every single other species recognises that it's ultimately self-defeating and self-destructive. HuMan - as the superior animal, at the top of the so-called food-chain, and apparently the 'most intelligent' - is bent on its own self-destruction, then.... Reminds me of that quotation: "Of all the creatures on this earth, man is the only one which prays. or needs to." And you know what? It happens on here too: The subtle and not-so-subtle pokes, digs and criticisms of women, by some jaded, chauvinistic, misogynistic men, who consider it to be their Constitutional right to voice their warped and twisted opinions of women: they are the discussion-forum equivalent of the taliban. They would suppress the voice of women through belittling insults and unfounded accusations. This is the same mentality, in a milder form. It's exactly the same thing, several notches lower. But it's just as damaging and unjustified. It's just as prejudiced and cruel. The damage is already among us. We can decry and condemn such distant actions and rise up as one voice to call for its immediate halt - but we have just as much of a problem here. I may be labelled a strident feminist for voicing such an opinion - but I have a point. And it needs to stop. We need to stop it. The way to stop it, is to deny it breath and attention. Very insightful post. Thanks so much TaraMaiden for sharing this and inspiring people of many different thoughts/beliefs!!! I don't think you are a strident feminist at all. Rather, you inspire me. I appreciate you!!! Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Back to the point of this thread, which I would like to ask you to respect, is let's continue to do what we can to help girls like Malala. Peace and Goodbye. So - what are you doing, honey? I'm asking, genuinely. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) So - what are you doing, honey? I'm asking, genuinely. 1. Writing Congressmen... calling is not so much fun. 2. Writing on Facebook, this forum, and a Muslim forum to create awareness of Malala and the girls who were shot and the situation. 3. Deciding which candidate will more effectively help girls like Malala in other countries and cut down war (which do you think?) I think Obama but I would really have rather been able to vote for Ron Paul. 4. Looking for charities that I can trust to help girls like Malala. 5. Helping in my own community, which is an ongoing thing though it doesn't relate to Malala's specific situation since all the girls where I live are free to go to school. 6. Learning from cool people who do not bash other peoples' beliefs unlike others who try to excuse their rudeness and intolerance with excuses. 7. Educating myself and others and striving to find a way to help these girls in Pakistan... 8. If my husband and I were in the situation to do so, I would love to adopt or sponsor a girl or girls from Pakistan so that she could leave Pakistan and come to the USA to learn. I wonder if there are organizations that help girls in countries where they are not free to come to free countries to learn? (Technically in Pakistan girls are supposed to be free to learn, but it seems that is not really the case now in some areas due to the Taliban.) If you have any suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Edited October 10, 2012 by BetheButterfly 3 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 .... 3. Deciding which candidate will more effectively help girls like Malala in other countries and cut down war (which do you think?) I think Obama but I would really have rather been able to vote for Ron Paul. ....... I haven't a clue. I would say Obama, but as I'm British, not American, I couldn't really give a valid opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Eclypse Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 the only pressure the us government is putting on Pakistan is bombing them. lets not forget they used give them billions of dollars to help train the mujahideens, and the Taliban. somehow only now they realized theyre nutters. Funny how that gets swept under the rug these days sooo easily @Bethebutgerfly - this is truly horrible, yet I am not surprised. It serves as a reminder how lucky we are. I wonder if the situation will improve there... I'm not sure it will Have you read the book "Kite Runner" and it's follow up "A Thousand Splendid Suns"? They both deal with issues in that area. I've only read Kite Runner so far, it's a bit melodramatic but quite a good description of life under the Taliban I think. The second one is about 2 women living in Afghanistan under Taliban rule and is probably a bit more relevant to this topic. Seeing this topic reminded me to check my "to read" list. I feel sorry for everyone living in the Middle East. Spending your life in fear is not the proper way to live. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Funny how that gets swept under the rug these days sooo easily @Bethebutgerfly - this is truly horrible, yet I am not surprised. It serves as a reminder how lucky we are. I wonder if the situation will improve there... I'm not sure it will Have you read the book "Kite Runner" and it's follow up "A Thousand Splendid Suns"? They both deal with issues in that area. I've only read Kite Runner so far, it's a bit melodramatic but quite a good description of life under the Taliban I think. The second one is about 2 women living in Afghanistan under Taliban rule and is probably a bit more relevant to this topic. Seeing this topic reminded me to check my "to read" list. I feel sorry for everyone living in the Middle East. Spending your life in fear is not the proper way to live. I very much hope it improves, for the sake of the children. Children everywhere deserve protection, love, provision, and education!!! Yes I read those books. They are very sad. I also recommend Kabul Beauty School: An American Woman Goes Behind the Veil [Hardcover] Deborah Rodriguez (Author), Kristin Ohlson (Author) Please see Deborah Rodriguez | Website I think (though am not 100% sure) her story and her helping these woman in Afghanistan are true! She is very much an inspiration!!! Spending your life in fear is not the proper way to live. Agreed Link to post Share on other sites
Hawaii50 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 There are people in the US who do care about others. However, I am sad to agree with you that it seems the government has issues. I do not think though that presidents or people in Congress are heartless... Many Christians would disagree with you concerning sharing deities. Regardless, many Christians have through the past to the present tried to rescue girls in India and around the world from horrible fates. Excuse me, but I am a "modern" Christian woman and have never ever considered myself a "second class citizen" to anyone, nor do I consider anyone (no matter their beliefs, ethnicity, nationality, social status, sexual lifestyle, gender, worldview) to be a second class citizen to me! Your god, according to the codified writings of his "son", slantingly put women in a second class. If you choose to ignore that fact, then I don't know what to tell you, because you must be purposely ignoring this. You've quoted many things in regards to Christianity, now try doing it with a touch of healthy skepticism. you're very smart, so I have no idea how you could overlook you such a huge detail that is about you specifically. I couldn't care less about some Christians disagreeing with me, cause I disagree with all of 'em. The Quran mentions Jesus, did you know that? god/allah, potato/potahto*. You're both monotheistic regions, fighting over the same holyspot?! but.. your deities are different?! You're fighting over a "GOD." To me it's the equivalent of fighting over imaginary friends. Your club (which IS a boys-club) burned women at the stake simply by getting a finger pointed at 'em, and let's not forget the drown tests for witchery. You've always been beside, and slightly behind a man. You weren't supposed to be able to vote, either. Any intelligent person can bring up the other thousand things that cost millions of millions of other lives, and billions of others to suffer under oppression through out time. Even today in the USA, MEN are deciding what you can do with your body. In Africa, if that funny-old man in that golfcart would just accept contraception, another 250 million people wouldn't have to suffer to be brought into this world literally eating mud and fly-burgers (not joking.)You cannot-cannot-cannot rationalize that-at all, because there is no rationalization to that. Besides women, I'm ranting now, the loss of medical and scientific discovery through-out the ages and up until today. your religion only serves a political purpose to keep the closed minded even more closed minded. This is the history of your belief system. Oh yeah, and being black is a punishment of indecision, gay- a sin (You know humans are the only homophobic creatures on this earth, where as homosexuality is found in many 100's of Animal species?!) Religion is CLEARLY an impediment to human evolution and a crutch for the mind's construct. It made sense back in the day, but not TOday. Aliens with ancient universal wisdom makes more sense than virgin births, walking on water warmer than 32 degrees F, and every other fairytale that IS EFFECTING HOW MY COUNTRY IS RUN, HOW MY COUNTRYMEN AND WOMEN ARE TREATED, AND THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. Your religion is doing this; Their religion is doing THIS. Religion is Doing this!!!! I understand you're a sweet-sweet woman, I have nothing but positive things to say about YOU personally. But just because a good percentage of religious people are nice, doesn't mean it's good. Doesn't even begin to rationalize the atrocities. How many atheist wars have gone on?? None, they're busy being happy, loving, and enjoy this physical manifestation. And, scratching their heads. I can explain very thoroughly from a quantum perspective what is exactly happening and how, when someone prays. It's amazing, 1000000 times more amazing than "god's listening." I'm not sure how you missed in your book that you and that vagina of yours are the sole reason for evil on this earth. thanks for eating the apple, and cutting Sammy's hair. Sorry for blasting you like this, but you opened the box. It all makes me very sad and scared for future. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I am crying right now. I can't believe this. I can't understand why people would shoot beautiful, intelligent little girls who are getting an education. They didn't, they singled her out for being a political activist. Link to post Share on other sites
Hawaii50 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 If anyone wants to help.. get with the times and fight against the ignorance and closed minded views of religion. Then and only then, you'd be attacking the roots and not trimming the leaves. This little light of mine. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Oh, BtB. It's horrible, but after everything I've read about the Middle East, I'm really not surprised. I think I've reached this point where I'm totally jaded towards anything those people can or will do to women. Fathers killing their own daughters who were raped to protect the 'honor' of their family. Women stoned to death for daring to expose an ankle or a strand of hair. Baby girls having their genitals mutilated in the name of 'female circumcision'. I don't know anything any of us can do for them at this point. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Sad to say but she would have been a lot better off to keep her head down and just become a doctor quietly. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 I haven't a clue. I would say Obama, but as I'm British, not American, I couldn't really give a valid opinion. Understood, but sometimes people from other countries can give a more objective view. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 They didn't, they singled her out for being a political activist. She was a political activist because they forced-closed her school. If they hadn't have forced-closed her school, she would not have spoken out about it. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 She was a political activist because they forced-closed her school. If they hadn't have forced-closed her school, she would not have spoken out about it. She found another school, she was singled out on a school bus. It's deplorable but she wasn't killed for getting an education. She was killed for, to be blunt, attention whoring. She should have had a cup of STFU and become a doctor, where she could effect real change. Not saying it's her fault, but she's wan't killed for getting an education. She was killed for political activism. Link to post Share on other sites
Hawaii50 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Umm.. also, I don't think she's dead yet either. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Hawaii50 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 She found another school, she was singled out on a school bus. It's deplorable but she wasn't killed for getting an education. She was killed for, to be blunt, attention whoring. She should have had a cup of STFU and become a doctor, where she could effect real change. Not saying it's her fault, but she's wan't killed for getting an education. She was killed for political activism. And I suppose MLK should have just sat there and ate his sammich. This girl was trying to be a beacon, a role model, and her light was snuffed-which will only turn other women away from such endeavors. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Umm.. also, I don't think she's dead yet either. Good point, so it really should be "Two accidentally killed while sitting near political activist on school bus" or something. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Oh, BtB. It's horrible, but after everything I've read about the Middle East, I'm really not surprised. I think I've reached this point where I'm totally jaded towards anything those people can or will do to women. Fathers killing their own daughters who were raped to protect the 'honor' of their family. Women stoned to death for daring to expose an ankle or a strand of hair. Baby girls having their genitals mutilated in the name of 'female circumcision'. I don't know anything any of us can do for them at this point. There are ways for us to help. I was reading the following articles about 2 ladies who endured horrible persecution. One lady is a Christian from Pakistan. Acid was thrown into her face because she said she was a Christian, when she was 16 years old. She is now in the USA! 'They wanted to hang me... they thought it would be an insult to Islam if I lived': New life for Pakistani Christian woman who suffered savage acid attack by Muslim man who thought she was a traitor | Mail Online Another lady is a Muslim, I think, from Afghanistan. Her nose and ears were chopped off by her husband in a forced marriage. Saving Aesha There are some wonderful organizations who help girls suffering from horrible abuses. I think this one right here is a good one to get involved in: http://www.womenforafghanwomen.org/ As for helping girls in Pakistan, I think this one is a good one? UNICEF Pakistan - Home page I am still researching. If anyone has any information on the above organizations or of others that help girls/women in Pakistan and Afghanistan, please share them? Thanks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 And I suppose MLK should have just sat there and ate his sammich. This girl was trying to be a beacon, a role model, and her light was snuffed-which will only turn other women away from such endeavors. Maybe he had a better sense of timing. If he'd showed up at 17 in a KKK night rally and started to be a beacon, we wouldn't know his name. Discretion is the better part of valor and all that. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Why? It's only by speaking out that people get 'heard'.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 She found another school, she was singled out on a school bus. It's deplorable but she wasn't killed for getting an education. She was killed for, to be blunt, attention whoring. She should have had a cup of STFU and become a doctor, where she could effect real change. Not saying it's her fault, but she's wan't killed for getting an education. She was killed for political activism. Honestly, her being a doctor would have done little. You can't overturn an entire political regime and oppression by being a doctor. Doctors have their place in the world... and so do political activists. The people who fought for the emancipation of slaves, for instance, saved many more lives than they would have had had they just STFU'ed and became doctors. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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