Opposite Sex Friendships?

[Georgina CG]

New member here, I'm a stray from a pro-marriage forum; I am wondering what the general consensus is around here regarding opposite sex friendships when married?

 

Over there (the other Forum) there was a lot of talk of marital boundaries, and opposite sex friendships were generally a no-no. The fear of course, being that an affair could be struck up (of course, affairs come from all kinds of sources, not just friendships).

 

Thoughts?

[Leelou]

I suspect that it really depends on which generation you are talking about. With the baby boomers the tradition was no opposite sex friends, only socialize in couples, openly, without private one on one opposite friendships.

 

Once the boomers got to their fifties and their kids were off to college, then the boundaries slacken a little and some opposite friendships are allowed.

 

With Generation X, I feel we always had the opposite sex friendships from High School and College (unlike the boomers), so when we got married, it was not so strict on no opposite friendships. However, for the sake of decency and also to prevent any possible affairs, you socialize with your friends openly, in front of the spouses.

 

I see Gen Y and the Millennials are SO very different!! Even when they are dating in college, they continue to keep their opposite sex friendships and they have managed to do this successfully without crossing the boundaries.

 

So, if you are of the baby boomer generation I would advise you that you did not grow up knowing how to balance being married and having a friendship with an opposite sex person, whereas if you are a millennial, you know no different, but to be able to handle such friendships.

[Silly_Girl]

I'm pro cross-gender friendships, but I appreciate what leelou says as I've seen other generations struggle with it.

[carhill]

IME, when married, such known friendships were transparent and inclusive of the marriage. From my side, my exW knew personally and interacted independently with any and all of my female friends, the number of which had dwindled somewhat after getting married. Conversely, I met and interacted with a number of my exW's male friends, including an exH and a past boyfriend, both of whom I came to respect. I even proposed to her at her old BF's house with his assistance in preserving secrecy.

 

IMO, as long as the M is the priority, friends are friends. They're valuable gifts we receive in life.

[MilitantPacifist]

Still friends with an ex from 10 years ago. Have had many girlfriends since and only one has had an issue with it (but she had a myriad of other problems so I think she was just insecure, not actually a problem with the opposite sex friendship).

 

Of course it helps that my ex is safely 1600 miles away. But I maintain it'd still be perfectly acceptable if she were in the same town.

[CarrieT]

With full disclosure and honesty, I see no problems with friends of the opposite sex.

 

I have male friends in my life who go back 30 and 40 years and I would never give them up for a partner who might be jealous of said friendships.

 

Leelou brings up a great point about generations and I believe that people with more years behind them are more mature and able to handle friendships of that nature. I don't know many people in their 20s who are as capable.

[Georgina CG]

I'm a GenXer, complete with a couple of opsex friends of my own. When I met my husband, I introduced these guys to him, and all was fine. My husband, however, had to get rid of 2 of his female friends, because they were trying to come in between the two of us. I found that pretty frigging nervy, the way they both felt they were owed, somehow, since they'd known him longer. Um, hello? I'm his wife! That being said, I should explain that one was actually an ex who overstepped her mark, and the other was trying to get my husband to go out with her...alone. I wasn't OK with that at all.

 

Friends of the marriage is the way to go for us, I guess.

[todreaminblue]

My sweety and I both have opposite sex friendships and haven't a problem with it. The stipulation is, however, that neither is ever DISinvited from a get together with said friend. My baby is always invited and I am as well. If there is a need for alone time with an opposite sex friend, one would have to wonder what there is to hide.

 

 

I have had many male friends in the past....i have though two close female friends that i have kept through the years......one lives interstate the other lives close to where i am ....i have found that my male friends are not long lasting friendships they come and go......in a relationship I do not spend time alone with male friends that does cause problems.........deb

[CarrieT]

Then you will never be ready for a fully committed relationship with a man since you will never be willing to sacrifice these so-called "friendships" for your relationship.

Wrong. I simply have found a man who has not asked me to sacrifice those relationships just as I have not asked him to sacrifice his.

 

By the way it's not "jealousy," it's simply having good strong boundaries. Any man who was seriously interested in you as a life partner, and was NOT deeply concerned about your very strong and long-standing emotional attachments to multiple other men, is probably someone who is not really deeply committed to you, either.

With all due respect, you are wrong on so many levels.

 

Oh and by the way these guys you've known for decades, unless they're gay, have wanted to have sex with you for the entire time. That's the only reason they're still orbiting around.

Again, wrong. One of them was my first boyfriend (I was 13 and he was 15). In his case, he lives on the other side of the country so his "orbit" is 4,000+ miles away and we only see each other every three or four years -- AND with me visiting his family.

 

You've basically said you have multiple decades long male friendships which are so important to you emotionally that you would never give them up for a new man (assuming he's willing to totally commit to you). I assure you no decent man who will be willing to seriously commit to you if you are so unwilling to put him "first" in your life that you'd rather keep multiple other male relationships than give them up.

You haven't been 'round these parts long enough to know me and to know how wrong you are about my relationship with my partner and my life-long friends. My BF has met several of these men - because when they visit, they stay in my guest room (I have one coming over on Friday, as a matter of fact = a man I have known for 35 years who is visiting from Europe). My BF is first in my life, but he also knows that my friendships are my family as these friendships have stood the test of time and trials and loss.

 

My BF will be joining us for breakfast on Saturday before my friend flies home. I am that transparent with my relationships. He knows he can trust me and he knows I would not do anything to jeopardize our relationship.

 

What part of this is incredulous to you?

[carhill]

ETA: You probably don't look back on it this way, but relying so much on your ex's ex bf to cement your relationship, by proposing to her at his house, him helping you keep the secret--that's just weakness. Agreeing with your ex that her ex BF should remain such a significant part of her life that he was intricately involved in your courtship with her is worse than weak, it is a complete undermining of the foundation of your marriage. Pretenders to the throne must be ousted! Everyone knows that.

My wife and I were married at 41, and her 'long ago' boyfriend from high school lost his wife of 15 years and unborn child from a tragic traffic accident about a year after we married. They were good friends.

 

That'll be the extent of my interaction with you.

[CarrieT]

You call him your "BF" which means "boyfriend." That means you're not in a seriously committed relationship with him (even if you both consider yourself exclusive). Do whatever you like with "boyfriend/girlfriend" relationships. I'm talking about a seriously committed/life partner relationship--marriage or its equivalent--not "boyfriends."

We are seriously committed. I am moving next Tuesday to work in his city and we are house shopping for purchase after the holidays. It is a serious/committed relationship.

 

Y

You didn't even call him your "partner."

Ummmmm.... yes I did:

You haven't been 'round these parts long enough to know me and to know how wrong you are about my relationship with my partner and my life-long friends.

 

Y

These guys can't afford a motel?

Of course they can. But why should they? I live in a tourist destination and host friends all the time.

 

Y

Does your bf live with you?

No. He lives 70 miles away, with his children.

 

Y

By the way have you ever had sex with these friends and if so have you honestly talked with your bf about it?

Some, yes. Some, no. And, yes, my PARTNER knows everything about everyone in my past.

 

Y

ROTFLMAO. So your friend gets to sleep in your guest room while your bf sleeps....elsewhere?

My PARTNER is a surgeon and cannot leave the hospital on Friday night, when my friend arrives, to join us at that time. That is why he is coming the following morning for breakfast and the rest of the weekend.

 

Hopefully you have a realistic viewpoint and understand that if you think it's OK to sleep under the same roof with another man, and your bf actually tolerates this, your bf probably feels its OK to do so with another woman, and what goes on between them is something that you're just not privy to.

He has children in his house and even *I* do not sleep there yet, so there is nothing going on to which I am not privy.

 

Who is this guy to you, that he stays overnight with you, your bf not allowed to be present, and you "allow" your bf to have breakfast with the two of you? As soon as Mr. Europe comes to town, you deprioritize your relationship and your bf is in second place. That's not a healthy relationship at all.

"Mr. Europe" is a high-school friend who - when scandal broke out and I was forcibly removed from school - was the ONLY peer to stand by me and the only friend that I still have from that era. My relationship is not in jeopardy whatsoever and my PARTNER is looking forward to meeting one of my oldest and closest friends.

 

Y

It might be great for your ego, but it's not healthy for your relationship.

This has nothing to do with my ego. These friends of mine are my family. Would you discard family members as easily? And it is healthy for my relationship as my PARTNER now gets to meet my family - as I will be meeting his at Thanksgiving, before we move in together early next year.

 

Y

Which is precisely why your bf is so NOT your "partner" that he won't be staying over at your place when "company" is sleeping over. Unless I misunderstood something here--why do you have to "invite" your supposed "partner" to have breakfast with you and another man?

That which you misunderstand could fill volumes and volumes. I am not "inviting" my PARTNER to have breakfast with us - it is simply expected that he will join us when he is done in surgery.

 

Y

Oh wait you never said you were, did you?

You are whacked. And like Carhill, this is my last interaction with you.

[CarrieT]

Because you're not running a bed and breakfast, are you?

I'm a trained chef and used to run a catering business, yes. Now I do it for friends for fun.

 

Yup. The two of you are so committed that you haven't quite moved in with each other yet, but I get it, that's coming soon.

We just celebrated our one year anniversary so it is happening in a proper timeline.

 

Interesting, given how many people think their sexual and emotional pasts are no one else's business, even of their current partners. Sounds like there is at least some insecurities revolving around this if these disclosures had to be made.

I am not one of those people who believe that sexual and emotional pasts need to be kept private; it is part of who we are our intellectual make-up. My partner believes that as well. All disclosures have been made.

 

In fairness, he's not really your "partner" yet, I wouldn't think that would apply until the two of you have actually moved in together.

I live with him when his children are with their mother - 50% of the time. And he lives with me on weekends in my tourist-destination home.

 

Wait a second he's your "partner" and you've never actually ever slept over at his house??? How do you even know whether or not you're compatible with him in the sense of being able to live together as roommates much less as a couple? Especially if his kids will also be a part of the household. Oh brother. You're actually buying a house with someone, whom you've never lived with, who has children? You have no clue whether you are going to be able successfully form a family with this man and his children--and make no mistake, that's what you'll be doing.

See the note above. We live together half-time. The other 50% of the time is me getting to know his children. We do have a clue what we are doing which is why we are taking this slowly. I went on the family vacation with him and his children (sleeping in a separate room) and they know that I am moving next week to their neighborhood to be closer to them over the next few months before the house purchase.

 

If there were no kids involved, who really cares? But you seriously owe it to his children if not yourself to take a step back before you actually buy a house with him. You guys should definitely rent for at least six months or a year before you even think of buying a house with him.

We may do exactly that. Those logistics are still under discussion.

 

Well I hope you like taking care of Mr. Surgeon's children since it sounds like he probably has you sized up as a step-mom/nanny. I would still give it a test whirl first before actually financially committing to a house purchase. The little brats might begin to wear out there welcome after a while.

They are not brats. And he has a Nanny for them so he doesn't need me for that. And the Nanny and I get along just fine, thank you.

 

OK great. Why hasn't this "family member" EVER met your partner before?

Because my friend lives in Europe and is visiting this week. Duh. We live in California and it isn't like we can just invite him over for a drink.

 

You're getting pretty upset and defensive.

No. I am getting frustrated by someone who doesn't seem able to believe that someone can have friends of the opposite sex even when explained why and how it is possible. Which makes me question your own veracity.

 

No more flying off to visit European friends or sleep-overs when Mr. Surgeon is working the late shift. When you are in a household together, basically his common law wife/Mary Poppins to his children, he's going to expect you to be at home waiting for him when he gets back late.

Why are you projecting and pre-supposing such things?

 

You've never met his family, either? Never spent a holiday with the family? Never seen the family dynamic/interaction?

I have met his siblings when they visited from the East Coast. We are flying to the East Coast for Thanksgiving for me to meet his parents. He has met my only living relative. And as we have only been dating a year, I would not have imposed myself on him during last year's holidays when we only knew each other a few short months, so this is - essentially - our first holiday together.

 

Let me ask you something--a serious question--have you EVER spent even a solid week or two together with the surgeon and his children (other than say a vacation which doesn't really count)? I mean 7 or 10 days and nights straight where you just spent the time with each other in his house or at your apartment, and with his kids perhaps, just doing day to day normal ordinary stuff? If not you don't have a clue whether the two of you are even compatible.

Yes, I have. On weeks he does not have his children, I live with him. And then, when he gets the kids, I spend the weekend (but not in his bed, with the kids there). And we do the normal stuff; biking, homework, making pizza, playing board games, going to kids' soccer games, etc... We have been doing all the domestic stuff for about eight months.

 

Nothing I've said is "whacked" at all. It is all perfectly reasonable and you just don't want to hear it.

No, what is perfectly reasonable is my cadre of close friends that you can't seem to believe is possible in the confines of a committed relationship.

 

You've finally found a most likely relatively well-off surgeon who seems into you and it sound like when you say you are going to buy a house "together" that probably means it will be mostly with his money.

Wrong. I'm worth as much as he is and this will be a 50/50 endeavor.

 

You are willing to ignore the fact that you don't actually know the man well enough to have met anyone from his family or spent any holidays with his family and in fact it doesn't sound like you've ever even spent any serious time living together to check compatibility.

Wrong again. Explained above.

 

Of course he has status and money

And so do I.

 

but he probably has between 10 and 20 years on you

He has three years on me. We are contemporaries and already middle-aged.

 

he also comes with baggage/"kids" but even though you don't really know how well you're going to get along with them

We all come with baggage - especially people of our age. And I wouldn't be moving for a new job and considering buying a house if I didn't get along with his kids.

[Silly_Girl]

Give Doug a break! He can't make or maintain a friendship with women and just does not get it. We could post our real life stories here all night and all day, it's not going to matter a jot. Personally my 20 year friendship (from aged 16) with a guy who calls himself my big brother is one of the most rewarding and least complex friendship I'm lucky enough to have. Poor Doug

[strongnrelaxed]

With full disclosure and honesty, I see no problems with friends of the opposite sex.

 

I have male friends in my life who go back 30 and 40 years and I would never give them up for a partner who might be jealous of said friendships.

 

Leelou brings up a great point about generations and I believe that people with more years behind them are more mature and able to handle friendships of that nature. I don't know many people in their 20s who are as capable.

 

I wonder Carrie - do you feel the same about your husband? Is he allowed to meet with and talk with any woman he wants with no comments or push back from you? Now I know the standard answer is "of course he can have female friends - I would NEVER preclude him..."

 

But I am more interested in how many female friends he has of which you are aware? That is the more interesting data to me.

 

How many female friends does HE have, of which you are aware, and how many do YOU have (of which he might or might not be aware)?

[strongnrelaxed]

I'm a GenXer, complete with a couple of opsex friends of my own. When I met my husband, I introduced these guys to him, and all was fine. My husband, however, had to get rid of 2 of his female friends, because they were trying to come in between the two of us. I found that pretty frigging nervy, the way they both felt they were owed, somehow, since they'd known him longer. Um, hello? I'm his wife! That being said, I should explain that one was actually an ex who overstepped her mark, and the other was trying to get my husband to go out with her...alone. I wasn't OK with that at all.

 

Friends of the marriage is the way to go for us, I guess.

 

Just so I have this clear and straight - you got to keep your friends, and he had to drop his for reasons that YOU defined. Did I get that right?

 

 

And their actions were the sole reason for your decree? Did you consider that your husband might actually be able to make these decisions for himself? Do you make ALL of his decisions for him?

[strongnrelaxed]

Wrong. I simply have found a man who has not asked me to sacrifice those relationships just as I have not asked him to sacrifice his.

 

 

With all due respect, you are wrong on so many levels.

 

 

Again, wrong. One of them was my first boyfriend (I was 13 and he was 15). In his case, he lives on the other side of the country so his "orbit" is 4,000+ miles away and we only see each other every three or four years -- AND with me visiting his family.

 

 

You haven't been 'round these parts long enough to know me and to know how wrong you are about my relationship with my partner and my life-long friends. My BF has met several of these men - because when they visit, they stay in my guest room (I have one coming over on Friday, as a matter of fact = a man I have known for 35 years who is visiting from Europe). My BF is first in my life, but he also knows that my friendships are my family as these friendships have stood the test of time and trials and loss.

 

My BF will be joining us for breakfast on Saturday before my friend flies home. I am that transparent with my relationships. He knows he can trust me and he knows I would not do anything to jeopardize our relationship.

 

What part of this is incredulous to you?

 

Carrie, while I do not agree 100% with doug, he makes a few good points. First of all, one need only read a handful of posts elsewhere here to learn that having friends of the opposite sex around is a huge challenge - to say the very least.

 

You also refute doug's claim by using your ex boyfriend as an example. While technically past romantic involvement is no predictor of future involvement, his point is essentially valid. Sex is a basic fundamental component to the male female relationship. The only time it does not come into play is when a woman is trying to justify having male friends in her life.

 

I wonder how you would feel if your husband announced that a long lost female friend, of whom you were aware, was coming to stay over and he would drive her to the airport when you were not around.

 

I can almost hear the brains of other women exploding right now. That would NEVER EVER fly with most women.

 

So either you are being less than honest here, or there is a huge double standard. Which is it?

[strongnrelaxed]

Carrie - I allude to your "husband" twice - a reflexive reaction. I cannot fix the typo. I meant to say your partner.

[MilitantPacifist]

Just as long as everyone floats down from fantasy land and understands that the only reason heterosexual men EVER maintain an opposite sex friendship is they either have the intent or at least nurse the fantasy of getting in the woman's pants someday.

 

Absolutely untrue. I've been best friends with a girl for 10 years now. We tried a relationship briefly, didn't work because we were incompatible emotionally and sexually. But intellectually we're like two halves of the same whole.

 

And some of my best friends in high school were women as well.

 

Are you honestly suggesting I've been waiting 10 years to get with this chick just for sex? Give me a break. It would be incestuous basically. She's my bro.

[Buck Turgidson]

Then you will never be ready for a fully committed relationship with a man since you will never be willing to sacrifice these so-called "friendships" for your relationship.

 

No, it's you who will never be ready for a healthy relationship because you have no conception of the values of loyalty and integrity. Anyone who spoke to me of the necessity of ditching lifelong friendships in order to have a relationship would be instantly disqualified from having either of them with me. No person who could so easily, ahem, "sacrifice" the people they are supposed to care about could possibly be loyal to me either.

[CarrieT]

Just so I have this clear and straight - you got to keep your friends, and he had to drop his for reasons that YOU defined. Did I get that right?

No, this is not correct. I've never asked anyone to drop their friends because of me either.

 

Carrie, while I do not agree 100% with doug, he makes a few good points. First of all, one need only read a handful of posts elsewhere here to learn that having friends of the opposite sex around is a huge challenge - to say the very least.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. Being 100% completely open and honest, there has been no challenge whatsoever. It is part of the fabric of our existence and is the make-up of who I am - my partner has enjoyed meeting the people in my past and interacting with them.

 

I wonder how you would feel if your husband announced that a long lost female friend, of whom you were aware, was coming to stay over and he would drive her to the airport when you were not around.

 

I can almost hear the brains of other women exploding right now. That would NEVER EVER fly with most women.

 

So either you are being less than honest here, or there is a huge double standard. Which is it?

I think this is the crux of it. I am not "most women." And my current relationship (which I believe will be my LAST relationship) has a level of frank and open honesty which I am learning does not exist in many relationships I read about on this and other forums. I have met a few of my partner's female friends, but he admits he has few "long lost" friends because his lifestyle did not contribute to creating them (they are mostly men in his specific medical profession).

[Georgina CG]

Your men friends want to get into your pants just as much as these females wanted to get in your husband's pants. To you, however, they are an ego trip, not a threat, and of course your husband tolerates it so as not to be accused of being "controlling"--despite the fact that he was forced to ditch his opp sex friends just as soon as you felt a little bit threatened by them. Loving the double standard here.

 

Glad you love it, Doug. The difference is my male friends aren't out there, asking me out, deviously trying to get me alone, like these c*nts were with my husband. If my husband felt threatened in any way, shape, or form, I'd be happy for him to step in, be a man, and clean house. Of course, that would only happen if my male friends were douchebags, which they aren't.

[CarrieT]

I think I figured Doug out. For him, everything has an underlying sexual vibe to it.

 

People can't be trusted because "they want to get in your pants." Doug can't conceive of transcending the sexual act (or desire) to a more congenial and familiar feeling that can exist between human beings, regardless of gender.

[Georgina CG]

Just so I have this clear and straight - you got to keep your friends, and he had to drop his for reasons that YOU defined. Did I get that right?

 

 

And their actions were the sole reason for your decree? Did you consider that your husband might actually be able to make these decisions for himself? Do you make ALL of his decisions for him?

 

I guess you missed the part where I said my HUSBAND had to get rid of them? Yup, he came to that decision all on his own, without my help like a big boy!

 

Sorry, if YOU think it's OK to let your husband/wife openly date members of the opposite sex, (did I get that right?) then good for you.

 

For us, the answer is no.

[Georgina CG]

I think I figured Doug out. For him, everything has an underlying sexual vibe to it.

 

People can't be trusted because "they want to get in your pants." Doug can't conceive of transcending the sexual act (or desire) to a more congenial and familiar feeling that can exist between human beings, regardless of gender.

 

I think people who can't be trusted show themselves in their true colors soon enough. My 3 guy friends weren't all douchey, 'trying to get into my pants'. Never. When I see them, it's with my husband ONLY.

 

Whereas 2 out of the Husband's 3 female friends, immediately began acting all c*nty once I appeared on stage. Uh ya. I don't think so. The third female friend is actually a really nice woman and we socialize with her and her Hubbby.

 

You win some, you lose some, in life. If my female friends started acting all b!tchy with my husband, believe you me, they would have been drop kicked as well.

[Sauron]

I agree with Doug. I think about having sex with every attaractive woman I know, because nature made me that way. Any man that doesn't probably has a hormonal imbalance and should see an endocronologist.