angie2443 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'm really glad someone on my thread suggested reading this one - it makes Doug's assertions about me much easier to explain! If you haven't already, take a look at page 9 I think, Doug makes a fantastic imaginary story out of me wanting to see a play with a work friend! I think certain posters have extreme personalities. I don't mean this in a bad way. I wouldn't recommend using these posters to represent a larger number of people, though. On the dating board, for instance, there's these same group of posters that are always bashing women and going on and on about how a women's value is in her youth. If you take that to represent all men, it gets kind of depressing. However, if you realize it's just this one little group of guys, you just don't take it as seriously. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Driver12 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Thanks, Angie, I appreciate that Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 The question isn't really whether actual cheating occurs. It's whether the involvement with an opposite sex friend becomes so involving that it takes away from your primary relationship. We've had at least one person on this thread state that she would rather give up her (prospective) spouse than give up her opposite-sex friendships. To me that indicates a pretty strong emotional attachment. I will try one more time before giving up... Doug, let's say you met a woman you were considering marrying. You knew her only a few months when she said, "I really can see a life-long relationship with you, but I feel threatened by your family and need you to give them up to be with me." Would you? Because these male friends of mine are like my brothers. They are my family. Would you have sex with a member of your family? I hope not... Just like I won't have sex with members of my family. When I lost my immediately family and was made homeless by the Northridge earthquake, it was my friends who stepped in and made sure I had a roof over my head and food to eat, despite having lost everything else. We've had at least one person on this thread state that she would rather give up her (prospective) spouse than give up her opposite-sex friendships. To me that indicates a pretty strong emotional attachment. My point is that if I *started* dating a man who felt so emotionally challenged by members of my family, I would see early on that we were not a match in our philosophical and ethical ideals. It would be easier to say goodbye to someone I only had in my life for a few months than someone who had been in my life (and seen me through horrendous loss, trauma, and devastation) for two and three decades. Well give your self a medal if you feel you are superior because you get laid more than you think someone else does--but this highly sexualized view of human relationships shows where your head is at. YOU are the one sexualizing these relationships. It's almost insulting to one's spouse to treat them that way. Hey my ex boyfriend from Europe is coming over, honey, he will be staying with me overnight, why don't you come to breakfast with us the next morning? He was NEVER an ex-boyfriend! He was never a sexual being in my life whatsoever! He is a brother - a family member. What is so hard with believing that? If the surgeon is any kind of man and if he is serious about Carrie T he will most likely tell her European boyfriend "Well now that we are getting married, it's time for you to make yourself scarce. Carrie T is no longer available to you." (Of course if he is not really serious and wants to play the field or philander himself, maybe he will need the European guy to stick around to keep Carrie occupied.) Now this is just crass. I was never available to him in the first place and would not suddenly become so. If my prospective spouse told me to my face she would dump me rather than give up her old boyfriends, with who she claims she has no romantic attachment, why should I believe that that is partner material? Because you TRUST HER? What's keeping her from getting involved with him? Integrity. Honesty. Ethics. Loyalty. What's keeping her from getting involved with him? Nothing at all. I will reiterate it: Integrity. Honesty. Ethics. Loyalty. Are these qualities that you honestly don't believe exist in people??? If she can't even stay away from men she claims to have no romantic interest in, how is she going to stay away from men she does have a romantic interest in? Because she (or HE!) has integrity, honesty, ethics, and loyalty.... Answer--she won't because she can't. Perhaps that has been your experience with people has been so damaged that you believe people cannot refrain from sexual urgings and if that is truly the case, I am terribly, terribly sorry for you. Enough of us here have tried to demonstrate that cheating is not germane in every person. Your polarized view of the world is quite sad. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Love can and often does transcend sex. True friendship is love. Temptation is everywhere. Wise people who treasure what they have of value want to protect that, and understand how to do it. These two concepts are not mutually exclusive. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Which is precisely why such friendships can be SO dangerous to a marriage. And I counter that it is why such friendships can ENHANCE a marriage as it shows a person's heart is warm, caring and compassionate to many people. Many of us believe it is possible to care and love in a transcendent way other people without damaging any other relationship in one's life. Just like a parent can love more than one child... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Precisely. Stated another way, a true friendship necessarily involves a very deep emotional and spiritual connection--if not "love," then something very close to it. Which is precisely why such friendships can be SO dangerous to a marriage. They are not dangerous to my marriage. They enrich my marriage. My friendships are deeply important to me and having them enhances my life, and that all reflects in what I bring to my marriage. I do NOT believe that having that kind of spiritual connection with a person other than my husband is in any way threatening to what we have together. What I have with him is unique. Fortunately, he feels the same way that I do. I'm not out seeking social interaction with new guy friends. The men friends who have been sharing my life through decades, in some cases, are not getting the boot because I am married now (and so are most of them). They respect my marriage and I respect theirs, and show that in my behavior. I have a code of boundaries and propriety that I abide by, and so does my husband. We are with each other every day by free choice, not because of any controls we place upon each other. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The hell I'd let someone who cheated on me in the past, destroy my trust in all things male. He took away a couple years of my life in mistrust but that's enough. Had I remained mistrusting, I wouldn't have connected with my wonderful man, our marriage wouldn't have happened and neither would our two beautiful boys. What a waste of time and energy to live like a warden. No thanks. I love my life, as is. Full of trust and love. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja'sHusband Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The hell I'd let someone who cheated on me in the past, destroy my trust in all things male. He took away a couple years of my life in mistrust but that's enough. Had I remained mistrusting, I wouldn't have connected with my wonderful man, our marriage wouldn't have happened and neither would our two beautiful boys. What a waste of time and energy to live like a warden. No thanks. I love my life, as is. Full of trust and love. I pray I can learn this lesson I am not for opposite gender friendships if they involve a lot of alone time. I especially don't condone anything over night in the same room. I remember feeling weird about another guy driving my wife to and from a conference in a neighboring town... I wish I had acted on those feelings... She had her own room with another female, but I later learned things DID happen at that conference. There's a book you might be interested in called "Not Just Friends". Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I pray I can learn this lesson I am not for opposite gender friendships if they involve a lot of alone time. I especially don't condone anything over night in the same room. I remember feeling weird about another guy driving my wife to and from a conference in a neighboring town... I wish I had acted on those feelings... She had her own room with another female, but I later learned things DID happen at that conference.There's nothing you can do to stop people from doing stupid things. If not this conference, it could easily have been at the office or anywhere else. It's a matter of understanding that living the life of a warden is only trapping yourself from moving forward and being happy. There's a book you might be interested in called "Not Just Friends".That period of my life is over and I've let it go. Not going there again unless infidelity happens to me again. But if so, I know how to handle it with a call to my divorce lawyer and another call to movers, who will pack for me while I bundle the children and Nanny into my car. Over and done. No unnecessary trauma or drama. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Shmooplove Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I have male friends. I enjoy their company and like to get a mans point of view on issues my girlfriends can't offer. Men are simplistic creatures for the most part so it helps me to see my husbands view through their eyes. However, men can be dogs, and given the chance (and I have) they will take advantage. Like a lot of women I work in a mans (male dominated) field and therefore I see many married men striking up friendships with woman to see how far they can get. I'll call them out if I see it. My husband seems to need a lot of attention from women as well. I see this as the need to know he still "has it going on". I'n not the jealous type and I know that jealously can ruin a perfectly good marriage so I keep any of those type of feelings at reason. I have looked though his Facebook page and seen messages I don't care for (only on his side). I'm not a stupid person, but I also son't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill. There is a fine balance of friendship/relationship and I've been there. You'll know when it time to turn down the friendliness. Link to post Share on other sites
Try Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 All four of these exes are purely platonic friends. Wow, marraige advice from someone that has been divorced at least 4 times and married 5 (not sure if there were others that did not remain friends). You have been married and divorced so many times I guess that makes you an expert on marraige compared to people that have been married to only one person. Link to post Share on other sites
Try Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) The truth is that many people that get caught up in emotional affairs (EA) are good people that did not intend to cheat but because of weak boundaries find themselves in trouble. You can delude yourself into believing that your marraige will be all rainbows an unicorns year after year and decade after decade, but in reality all marriages have there ups and downs. Children, health, and financial issues, can stress a marraige and make people vulnerable. Once they grow close to an EA partner, they cannot help it when the drugs go off in their brains whenever they talk to them. Also, the newness factor of an EA partner makes the brain drugs even stronger. The most common thing heard from spouses in an emotional affair is that "we are just friends". The odds are in you favor when you play Russian Roulette that the gun will not go off, but with the down side is so bad most people will not play it. Many people feel the same way about opposite sex friends. My advice is to marry someone that shares your views on this topic; it should be one of the top things discussed before you get married. Edited October 18, 2012 by Try 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Try Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Do you marry every person you date? Didn't think so. Do you think that marrying every person you date is a good idea? Didn't think so. Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Ha ha! Of course not! But your comment to TBF seemed to indicate that you believe she has been married to every person she has every had a relationship with. *giggles* Umm...no! Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Ha ha! Of course not! But your comment to TBF seemed to indicate that you believe she has been married to every person she has every had a relationship with. ALL AT THE SAME TIME! It was caused by the opposite sex friendships! SEE???? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Try Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Ha ha! Of course not! But your comment to TBF seemed to indicate that you believe she has been married to every person she has every had a relationship with. How did you get that out of my comment that "Wow, marraige advice from someone that has been divorced at least 4 times and married 5 (not sure if there were others that did not remain friends). You have been married and divorced so many times I guess that makes you an expert on marraige compared to people that have been married to only one person"? What I was indicating was that people that have been married and divorced so many times may not understand what it takes to have a long term marriage. Do you disagree? Link to post Share on other sites
Try Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I must be missing something. Who has been married 5 times and divorced four? threebyfate has. Read post #132 in this thread. She states in this post that “Sure. The ex-husband and my husband play on the same men's league basketball team. My husband invited him and the two get along fine. My last ex is also a family friend. He comes over when he's in town and socializes with all of our friends. Great guy, H. really likes him too. There are two other exes who've remained in contact. All four of these exes are purely platonic friends.” Currently married with at least 4 exs (I do not know if all of her exs have remained in contact) means she has been married at least 5 times and divorced 4. Link to post Share on other sites
Try Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Um, ex-boyfriends...? Every ex isn't an ex husband. Donna she specifically used the word "ex-husband" the first time that she used the word "ex", and then after talking about the other 3 exes closed by lumping all four exes together by saying "All four of these exes are purely platonic friends"; by lumping them together it implies that they are the same, thus her use of the term "ex" implies it was for ex-husbands and not ex-boyfriends. Edited October 19, 2012 by Try Link to post Share on other sites
strongnrelaxed Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Love can and often does transcend sex. True friendship is love. Temptation is everywhere. Wise people who treasure what they have of value want to protect that, and understand how to do it. These two concepts are not mutually exclusive. If only such simple fairy tales were true. MME C, these words sound so nice. We want it all to be true. But some people are going to find it easier to stay faithful than others. I can only assume that you are not an extremely attractive woman. I say this not as an insult, but if you were to talk to a stunningly beautiful woman, you would hear a different perspective about how men's eyes are continually on them and they are pressured for sex nearly non stop by friends and strangers alike. Men too have this same thing. Some men have more testosterone. Young men have more than older ones. Athletic men have more than overweight men - generally speaking. To say that these people should be equally able to resist cheating is patently ridiculous. To counter this by saying "Oh, so we should excuse cheating because some people are more prone to it beyond their control' is a teenagers response. It is a complex mess and while the stories seem the same, I have learned that everyone is a judgmental ass until they themselves are in the situation. THEN it's all "we are all just humans" and "judge not, lest ye be judged" etc. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 To clarify, I've been married to two men at different times, subscribing to monogamy in both marriages and have never cheated in my life. *waits for accusations of cheating in the future because of opposite gender friends* 1 Link to post Share on other sites
2sure Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Liz...I mean, TBF - I think what would be really helpful to know regarding your past relationships turning into platonic friends is...how many boyfriends have you had including during grammar school, how many times have these so called "boyfriends" turned out to be long term relationships AND have you recently contacted all of them to find out if they felt cheated in anyway due to something you possibly unknowingly did. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 It all started with Conrad Hilton and went progressively downhill from there. Couldn't help myself with Dick Burton. He was an animal! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
piggyoink Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 People should be free to choose their friends Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts