Opposite Sex Friendships?

[Georgina CG]

I agree with Doug. I think about having sex with every attaractive woman I know, because nature made me that way. Any man that doesn't probably has a hormonal imbalance and should see an endocronologist.

 

I'm sure that is the case sometimes...but not all women/men are attractive to every other woman/man. Sometimes, the other person just doesn't do it for you, right?

[Got it]

I agree with Doug. I think about having sex with every attaractive woman I know, because nature made me that way. Any man that doesn't probably has a hormonal imbalance and should see an endocronologist.

 

Why? Because it is different than you? Maybe you are the one with a hormone imbalance? Why assume you are correct?

 

I have been friends with guys in the past, I am friends with guys now, some have shown they have a sexual interest, others have not and have said as so. I do not think men are so base that they are interested in everything with a vagina if they find them passably attractive. Maybe I am giving men too much credit?

 

My fiance is friends with women, I am fine with it. He is very transparent with everything and is open to anything if I have a concern. I do not have qualms with him with other women including his ex wife. I think mixed genders can be very good relationships but it does come down to boundaries, absolutely. But it is about the individual and I don't see the need in throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[BetheButterfly]

New member here, I'm a stray from a pro-marriage forum; I am wondering what the general consensus is around here regarding opposite sex friendships when married?

 

Over there (the other Forum) there was a lot of talk of marital boundaries, and opposite sex friendships were generally a no-no. The fear of course, being that an affair could be struck up (of course, affairs come from all kinds of sources, not just friendships).

 

Thoughts?

 

I am a very happily married woman who has friends that are guys. However, I have guidelines I personally made for myself. (My husband did not make them.)

 

1. I make sure not to be alone with a guy where nobody else can see us. I think that's very important because it helps no rumors to start, it gives my husband security, and it prevents temptation.

 

2. I make sure he knows I love my husband and am faithful to my husband. I don't want him to get any ideas about him and me being more than friends. I always bring my husband up in conversation and I also always talk positive of my husband... I never share any negative thing concerning my husband, (though I personally don't consider my husband to have negatives).

 

3. I do not entertain any ideas of being with my guy friends sexually. This is extremely important because I think this is where many affairs start. One has to keep one's mind on what is important to one and not let temptation take a foothold. My marriage is extremely important to me, and I don't want to do ANYTHING that puts my marriage in danger. So, with guy friends, it's very important to not allow any fantasy creep in and endanger one's reality.

 

I have found that my male friends greatly respect my stance on marriage and on my guidelines for friendship with them. Most of my male friends are married and I greatly respect them and their wives, who are my friends too. Some I became friends with when they and I were single, and I greatly appreciate the advice they have given me. Many see me as a little sister, which I appreciate because I don't have brothers. So, they have become my brothers and their approval of my husband means a lot to me. My husband understands that is and fine with that, because he has a sister. My husband is also the type of man who looks after women to protect them and give them advice, like a brother looks out for his sister to protect her from jerks. My husband, since we got married, also does not socialize with his female friends except with me at his side. I really like that and that helps me feel secure.

[CarrieT]

I agree with Doug. I think about having sex with every attaractive woman I know, because nature made me that way. Any man that doesn't probably has a hormonal imbalance and should see an endocronologist.

But do you ACT upon it? Or, do you act inappropriately to the extent that you don't feel you can have these women as friends?

 

Some of my long-standing male friends have lamented that timing and/or other relationships stood in the way of a sexual connection. And on two of those occasions specifically, we were able to re-address those comments YEARS later and acknowledge that the friendship is stronger by not succumbing to those urges.

 

I'm one of those open and frank people - much to some chagrin - and I discuss these issues with my friends. We get it out in the open and demystify it, possibly (probably!) diffusing the sexual context.

[Georgina CG]

I am a very happily married woman who has friends that are guys. However, I have guidelines I personally made for myself. (My husband did not make them.)

 

1. I make sure not to be alone with a guy where nobody else can see us. I think that's very important because it helps no rumors to start, it gives my husband security, and it prevents temptation.

 

2. I make sure he knows I love my husband and am faithful to my husband. I don't want him to get any ideas about him and me being more than friends. I always bring my husband up in conversation and I also always talk positive of my husband... I never share any negative thing concerning my husband, (though I personally don't consider my husband to have negatives).

 

3. I do not entertain any ideas of being with my guy friends sexually. This is extremely important because I think this is where many affairs start. One has to keep one's mind on what is important to one and not let temptation take a foothold. My marriage is extremely important to me, and I don't want to do ANYTHING that puts my marriage in danger. So, with guy friends, it's very important to not allow any fantasy creep in and endanger one's reality.

 

I have found that my male friends greatly respect my stance on marriage and on my guidelines for friendship with them. Most of my male friends are married and I greatly respect them and their wives, who are my friends too. Some I became friends with when they and I were single, and I greatly appreciate the advice they have given me. Many see me as a little sister, which I appreciate because I don't have brothers. So, they have become my brothers and their approval of my husband means a lot to me. My husband understands that is and fine with that, because he has a sister. My husband is also the type of man who looks after women to protect them and give them advice, like a brother looks out for his sister to protect her from jerks. My husband, since we got married, also does not socialize with his female friends except with me at his side. I really like that and that helps me feel secure.

 

Boundaries are good! And quite possibly one of the only ways to ensure success with these opposite sex friendships. I know my husband would never go for my being off alone with another guy; so why do it? Frig, I don't even entertain the idea!

[freestyle]

 

Whereas 2 out of the Husband's 3 female friends, immediately began acting all c*nty once I appeared on stage. Uh ya. I don't think so. The third female friend is actually a really nice woman and we socialize with her and her Hubbby.

 

 

 

That's why these things need to be decided on a case by case basis--there's no one-size-fits-all.

 

Sometimes OS friends are simply hovering, waiting to find chinks in the armor of a marriage---(so they can start chiseling behind the scenes)

 

(which I think was happening with the two female friends that were hostile to you, Georgina)

 

and sometimes they are genuinely supportive of a marriage. If both partners in a marriage are comfortable with OS friends, and everything's transparent, it shouldn't be a problem. The moment an OS friend on either side exhibits jealousy, or sabotaging/undermining behaviors---they have to go.

[CarrieT]

I've also been thinking about one particular male friend that I have, R. I met him when I was working in a bookstore almost 15 years ago. At that time, I was living with a guy and all three of us became friends through our mutual love of a particular genre.

 

As the years went by, I broke up with the then-boyfriend and R even physically helped my Ex move from California to Oregon (the Ex couldn't drive). I went NC with my Ex but stayed in close touch with R to make sure the Ex was okay.

 

The years continued to transpire and R and I stayed in close contact; calling each other every other week or so to talk about movies we've seen, books to read, philosophies, etc. And when I went to the Pacific Northwest, I slept on his couch. He made a single pass at me and I calmly said that I valued our friendship more than that.

 

A year or two after that, we talked about the incident. We both acknowledged that our friendship and camaraderie is much stronger and more fulfilling than if we had attempted a relationship - and will last longer. I have had this same conversation with at least four other men. These are men who may or may not be married. If they are, I have met and spent time with their wives.

 

R is not married, but he calls me when he gets a date to get advice or talk about. We are each others family. They are like brothers to me because we have diffused the sexual element by bringing out in the open and addressing it (when/if necessary). My partner has now met all but two or three of these guys in my life - and distance is the only hindrance to that act.

 

Because he knows these people are important to me and have shaped my life, he is accepting of their presence in my life just as I am with his friends.

[Georgina CG]

Good replies! While I'm here, I must apologize for my rude replies earlier in the thread; you see, I'm from another forum, and often, would get provoked into writing mean replies, defending my opinions, and arguing...I have decided that I no longer wish to be that kind of poster, so even though I had a minor slip up, I will no longer allow myself to be affected by those trying to incite anger/arguments. Rude, arrogant, ignorant replies will be met with .... nothing.

 

I agree that these OS thingies must be case by case, that there is no one rule for all. And I've definitely had male friends who have tried it on at one point or another...and it ruined the friendship, to be honest! The ones I have now, are a select and tiny group (2 work together, so that's how I know them) who have never said or tried anything. They have both known me from when I was a single gal. They like my husband and are happy for me.

[CarrieT]

I am talking about the kind of friendship where one's spouse and the opposite sex friend actually make an effort to socialize and spend time with each other on a fairly regular basis, especially where the spouses or SO's are excluded. Or if it's long distance, the kind of friendship where they are fairly frequently texting, emailing, phoning, messaging each other.

 

"Regular basis" is relative. With those who live far from me, it is not possible to socialize and spend time with them. But we reach out with phone calls and texting and emailing quite frequent - at least weekly.

 

With "Mr. Europe," yes - I flew to Europe to see him last year and this year he is visiting me. That is the reason for his visit. We talk weekly, text daily and make a point to see each other at least once a year. And have done so for 30+ years. To me, that IS a friend. I have stood up with him through two marriages. He has stood up with me through one.

 

You comments about "other motivations" escapes me. Except for the sexual connotation you seem to believe has to exist between men and women, I can't conceive of what "other motivations" a person might have to maintain a friendship.

 

Sheesh.

[CarrieT]

I don't know any heterosexual men who would bother to specifically hang out with a woman they're not in a relationship with, unless they were at the least nursing romantic fantasies about her.

 

I would introduce you to my heterosexual male friends:

 

• Tony - friend since 1972
  
• Philip - friend since 1978
  
• Lance - friend since 1980
  
• Richard - friend since 1984
  
• Ralph - friend since 1986
  
• Travis - friend since 1992
  

Whether or not they are nursing romantic fantasies is 100% irrelevant because it does not interfere or impact our friendships.

 

Why can't you believe it to be true?

[Quiet Storm]

My husband and I don't have separate opposite sex friends. We have couples that we hang out with together, but that's it.

 

I agree that most guys do seek out friendships with attractive women because of the sexual undercurrent, and I don't want to put myself out there like that. I don't want men feeding off my pheromes under the guise of "friendship", and I don't want to "tease" men that aren't my husband. For me, it doesn't matter that the attraction wouldn't be reciprocated by me. The friendship would be phony because we would have different motivations.

 

I also want to be the only female emotional outlet that my husband has available. I guess I'm selfish like that.

 

I know our way isn't for everyone, though.

[Got it]

Are you currently in a healthy, seriously committed romantic relationship with a woman?

 

Is your "best friend" in a healthy, seriously committed romantic relationship with a man?

 

If either of you claims to be involved in a serious romantic relationship with another, then no, it is NOT a good thing for the two of you to be each other's "best friends." You owe your "best friendship" to your serious romantic involvement, if any, as does she to hers.

 

What you claim to be "best friendship" is actually not just a platonic friendship, it is romantic in nature, even though you, she, or both of you, don't want to concede that point.

 

By definition, if you are "best friends" with her, then you can never be "best friends" with another woman--meaning that you will never have the kind of complete emotional connection that life partners need to have with each other. The same applies to your "best friend" of course.

 

And sometimes, in order to move forward, you have to leave the notion that you can never change who your "best friend" is, behind.

 

If I were your life partner, or contemplating it, and you continually insisted that an old flame--and yes, this woman is an old flame that you thought of romantically in the past--was your "best friend", meaning that I wasn't, I would find that attitude very challenging and perhaps a deal-breaker.

 

 

 

You are still carrying a torch for her. That's apparent. Given that you DO have a romantic history with her, your inability to let go will impair your ability to ever successfully move on to a healthy, fully satisfying romantic relationship with another woman.

 

But I guess the easiest thing to do is ask: So what does your current significant other/spouse/life partner think about this friendship? Are you saying it never even bugs or concerns her even a little?

 

 

 

 

 

Did you have ulterior motives of romantic intentions for those other women friends as well? That's pretty typical and that's the point. By the way what happened to all these other women? Why are they no longer your friends? What is so special about your "best friend"?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You tipped your hand when you said "just for sex."

 

No, I never said "just" for sex--emotional entanglements can be just as damaging as sexual entganglements.

 

The point you are missing is that if you are best friends and that has been for 10 years and you used to have romantic designs on her that didn't work out, and still consider each other best friends, you are strongly emotionally entangled with her and that kind of entanglement will interfere with your (or her) ability to form a complete relationship with someone else.

 

If she is your best friend, does she come running to cry on your shoulder every time she gets into a fight with her husband or current boyfriend? That's not good for her marriage. Spouses/partners need to turn to each other not to other people.

 

 

 

 

 

What does your wife think about the friendship?

 

What does her husband think about it?

 

Just curious.

 

What happens when you get into a fight with your wife? Do you go running to your friend? If so, that's not good for your marriage.

 

Wow I am sorry you see life like this. It seems to be a very grey and miserable existence. You see people in such a negative light. I wish you well.

[Georgina CG]

I will agree it might not be so dangerous to a relationship to have "friends" of the opposite sex where the "friends" actually live on a completely separate continent and any actual physical contact is on a very infrequent basis. Although certainly plenty of people have long distance emotional entanglements nowadays too.

 

I was assuming when we were talking about not having "friends of the opposite sex" it was understood that they were actually, like, "real life" friends.

 

If it's someone you're never going to see hardly ever, then the hazards are much less--but that's precisely because you never hardly ever see them.

 

Gee, I don't know Doug...my husband's friend who lived far away (West Coast) vs us on the East Coast was the biggest problem. At first, she was just b!tchy with him about me, in a wow-you-got-a-girlfriend-good-for-you type of way. So he drops her out of respect for me (I don't like to share my men). We forget about her, get married, having a ball, and boom. All of a sudden, she reinserts herself into his life. When he tells her he's now married to me, she goes off the deep end and cuts us BOTH to shreds in the process. 'How dare you disrespect OUR friendship?' blah blah blah blah. At that point, the girl's gotta go, I don't care how long she'd known him! She was so busy disrespecting her friend (my husband) she didn't realize she was disrespecting their friendship all by herself. I hate people like that. Sometimes, you have to realize that you're just not welcome in the middle of someone else's marriage, and just back the feck off.

[Georgina CG]

Sorry you live in denial. I have a hard time comprehending people who are thus. I agree that it must be terribly draining for you!

 

I'm a VERY sexual person. Always have been. I've had a FWB (before my guy of course) when I was single. I've shagged who I wanted when I wanted because of my heightened sexuality. However, as in love as I am with my man, NO man looks "good" to me any more. I know he feels the same. Nothing wrong with living in reality.

 

Amen to the above! I feel the same way. I am the same way. Now that I'm married, I don't even entertain the thought.

 

Doug, are you serious when you say you want to screw every good looking woman that you see?

[Silly_Girl]

What does your "big brother's" wife think of the arrangement?

 

Again, are you talking about a real friendship, that is, a relationship where you actually interact with the person more than once in a blue moon, or is this similar to Carrie's friend from Europe who visits every year or two?

 

She was, understandably, initially wary. But she's on my Facebook, we interact, she knows there is NOTHING that is not platonic. I will be staying in her house when I (with my boyfriend and son) go and visit.

 

He and I worked together, so we socialised in a big group. When I was married (my then-husband worked there too) my friend and I would have dinner (just us) or a film night. He's done a lot of travelling so it's been a lot of emailing, and his only base for years was my hometown (also his), and he frequently remarked that after his mum died, his only reason for returning was because of my son and I. Now he's moved overseas contact is limited to emails, FaceTime and Facebook. Except for the holiday where we'll stay with him. He's also in touch with my mum, she has run some errands for him as she's not busy at work like I am. In fact, at family functions the invite from my parents was often to me, my partner, my son and my friend. So he's like an extended member of family. I love him dearly but I wouldn't touch him with a bargepole.

[CarrieT]

Is he happily married? What does his wife think about your friendship with him?

 

Same question for all of these guys.

Tony - friend since 1972: Happily married 30 years. I was at his wedding and his children's weddings.

Philip - friend since 1978: Happily married 18 years. I visited their entire family in New York just last year. His daughter came and stayed with me during a California visit.

Lance - friend since 1980: Been through two marriages. Currently courting a third.

Richard - friend since 1984:Happily married for 40 years. He visited me just a month ago on a book-signing tour. Both of his children have utilized my hospitality in driving from SoCal to Seattle with my home as their stop-off.

Ralph - friend since 1986: Never married. Doesn't like dating much.

Travis - friend since 1992: Married 10 years and widowed. Hasn't started dating again.

 

I hope you realize that you just admitted that each of these guys might be nursing romantic fantasies, but if so, you just declare them to be "irrelevant."

I have said that IF there are sexual fantasies, those fantasies are irrelevant - not the men.

 

And you don't even know them well enough to be certain one way or the other.

Again, not true. I have discussed sex with each one of these men so I know which ones have fantasies and which ones don't. And, again, we have all agreed that our friendships are stronger and more important than any sexual urgings that may exist.

 

Obviously none of them are really close friends in the sense that I meant.

I disagree - and talking with each one of these people on a weekly basis - and, yes - visiting and socializing with them whenever possible, qualifies in "the sense that you meant."

 

No one has half a dozen close friends.

Why not? I don't have family. My friends ARE my family and I am very close to them.

 

Your definition of friendship is probably akin to my definition of "acquaintance." Undoubtedly your lingering friendships with a wide variety of other men have not been helpful over time to stabilizing and maintaining whatever your past serious relationships have been. They couldn't have. You can't invest any significant emotional energy in relationships with six different guys over many years and not have that detract from what you have available to put into the primary relationship.

Of course I can. And I have.

 

Obviously you have made a practice of collecting a string of "orbiters." You've conceded that you don't really know whether they harbor romantic fantasies or not, but it doesn't matter to you if they do.

I have conceded nothing and explained as such above. Sex is irrelevant but THAT concept doesn't seem to matter to you.

 

And you're not married. And you've only been with your current partner for a year or so.

 

And yet you don't see the connection, do you?

 

You really don't see it.

I think I see far more than you do.

 

But this is probably a conversation you need to be having with the surgeon, maybe this weekend wouldn't be a bad time.

There is no conversation needed with the surgeon. He has met all but two of the men I listed and is meeting HIM on Saturday. The last one lives in New York and will probably be introduced early next year.

 

And, when we get married next year - as is anticipated and being discussed - all of these men will come and dance at my wedding and congratulate me and the surgeon.

[CarrieT]

I thought this was irrelevant.

It has been made irrelevant through discussion.

[Buck Turgidson]

Dare I ask if bisexuals are to be permitted any friends at all?

[Got it]

See life like what?

 

Do you not understand that if I am "best friends" with a woman other than my spouse, then by definition, I cannot be "best friends" with my spouse?

 

Do you think a marriage is more likely to be successful where the spouses are best friends with each other, or whether they are each best friends with a different member of the opposite sex?

 

No that was not the piece I was referring to. Nor do I necessarily believe that one cannot be best friends with another and not be best friends with their spouse. I am not sure why gender makes a difference in that equation. Unless you are saying that one can only be a best friend with their spouse and with no one else. And then it comes down to ask what does the meaning of best friend. I think that is subjective and something that may vary.

 

What is the definition of successful? Historically spouses were not necessarily best friends, many had others they were closer with of the same sex but had long term marriages. What defines success?

 

Growing up I always had more than one "best friend". So I don't think one can only have one best friend. But if we think one can only have one of gender . . . I don't know. I really think it is a case by case analysis. I see your point/concern but I don't think it is an absolute.

 

My sympathies were in how you viewed people in general and your lack of trust and faith in their intentions. That was what I was offering my condolences on.

[Got it]

It's interesting that you would present your indecisiveness as a virtue, but this mental attitude is exactly one of the things that contributes to affairs--the inability to commit, the grass is always greener syndrome.

 

 

 

My sympathies that you can't make up your mind.

 

I never saw it as not being able to commit. There is no rule or law saying one should have only one best friend. Maybe a female thing but it is not uncommon for girls to have more than one best friend at different periods of one's life. They are friends that are the closest to you but having more than one does not negate the other. There have been never any discussion, expectation, or assumption of monogamy in my platonic relationships. I find it very peculiar that there seems to be in your life.

 

It has nothing to do with making up one's mind or about commitment. Did you, growing up, tell your friends that if you are there best friend they could not be best friends with anyone else?

[Got it]

It's definitional. Words have meanings. "Best" means exactly that--superior to anything else. So with very rare exceptions, an exact tie, you can't have multiple "best" friends at any given time.

 

And, if what you are trying to say is that you would have a "best" friend, then after some passage of time dump them and declare someone else your "best" friend, then obviously being your "best" friend isn't a very meaningful description, it's too fickle.

 

best/best/

 

Adjective:Of the most excellent, effective, or desirable type or quality: "the best pitcher in the league".

Adverb:To the highest degree; most: "the one we liked best".

Noun:That which is the most excellent, outstanding, or desirable.

Verb:Outwit or get the better of (someone): "she refused to allow herself to be bested".

Synonyms:adjective. prime

adverb. most

verb. beat - defeat - overcome

 

 

To repeat, the attitude you are describing with respect to your platonic friendships--that "best" isn't really that unique of a description, and not anything approaching permanency and reliability, is precisely the problem that lots of people have in ever getting seriously committed.

 

Of course if you really have no emotional committment to someone you call a "best" friend then I suppose maybe it wouldn't interfere with your primary relationship. However, you're still faced with a general inability to decide/commit to that primary relationship.

 

 

 

 

No, I frequently told people who hated my guts that they were my best friends.

 

Doug, so by your premise you have had one best friend since the time you started developing friends, say 5 or 6, and that has stayed constant throughout your life?

 

Wow, if that is the case my hat is off to you. While I have someone that has been one of my best friends since I was 13 I can't say that I haven't had others who were closer at times and can't say I didn't have any before her.

 

Damn my slutty platonic self.

[Got it]

Unless evidence of infidelity is somehow relevant to splitting up the assets, child support, or alimony, or custody, then it's completely irrelevant at this point since he has made the decision to divorce.

 

I agree that he should encourage his wife to connect with a new man as quickly as possible, the quicker she does that, the sooner she will be out of his hair.

 

I think you posted this in the wrong thread.

 

Depending on the state, infidelity may factor is greatly in regards to alimony, assets, etc. It would behoove him to know the laws and to have the information. He doesn't have to play the card but he would be remiss in not collecting it when he has the chance.

 

I know a case where the wife left, she had had an affair, and the guy didn't really collect evidence. She has gone after him in court, gone after the money, the kids, and has made claims of child abuse, etc. He has not used the information that he could have to helped his case and he is getting the short end of the stick.

 

You never know until it is too late. It isn't personal, it's just business at that point.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Got it

[Buck Turgidson]

Most emphatically yes. Pwned.

 

Wow, thanks Donna. I don't believe I've ever pwned anything before. XD

 

And Doug, not that it's worth the effort to attempt to communicate with you, BUT... the point is that you argue that married people should never be friends with the opposite sex because the sexual attraction is just too much to bear. Therefore, following your logic, a bisexual person in a relationship should have no friends at all, since the only reason that person would be friends with anyone is that they wanted to **** them. And... that's ridiculous.

 

I am saddened for the future of the planet that this must be spelled out for you.

[CarrieT]

I wouldn't know since a woman didn't best a man in this thread.

Most people on this site who have known me for years would counter that I, a woman, bested you, a mere male.

 

And, since our breakfast just ended, I'd like to report that my surgeon and old friend are already making plans for the three of us to meet up in London next spring.

[Quiet Storm]

BTW, I had a great time last night with two of my guy friends. Lots of singing and swing dancing. So much fun and great exercise too, and we all had more fun because of each other. One of the definitions of friendship, IMO, is that you enhance each other's lives. Adults know how to do that without the exchange of bodily fluids.

 

Do you know that they want you sexually and that doesn't bother you? Or do you think they don't want you? Or do you enjoy the fact that they want you? I am not trying to be snarky, I am just trying to understand...