Opposite Sex Friendships?

[CarrieT]

Have you been on some of the other fora on this site? Married doesn't necessarily mean committed.

 

Seriously, Doug... Who is to say a committed, monogamous relationship has to involve a marriage certificate?

 

There are enough married folks on this site bemoaning their cheating spouse or are, themselves, cheating.

 

How would me marrying my BF change the dynamic in our committed relationship (other than me wearing a ring and sleeping in his bed while his children are in the house)?

[CarrieT]

So as long as I'm living with someone else, that defines being "committed", but I can still do whatever I please with other people?

 

I don't really understand, please explain.

What you don't understand is that I do not have sexual relations with my friends.

 

I don't do "whatever I please." I am monogamous and committed to building a life with one person. But I don't "go on dates" with my male friends.

 

Not sure why you can't understand that.

 

And, yes, I AM planning on getting married again. I was married at 20 and cheated on by 25. I also had a 12-year, non-married relationship that was more committed than my marriage so certificate means little when it comes to commitment and intent.

[CarrieT]

 

How can anyone tell the difference?

 

The difference is the existence of sex.

[angie2443]

New member here, I'm a stray from a pro-marriage forum; I am wondering what the general consensus is around here regarding opposite sex friendships when married?

 

Over there (the other Forum) there was a lot of talk of marital boundaries, and opposite sex friendships were generally a no-no. The fear of course, being that an affair could be struck up (of course, affairs come from all kinds of sources, not just friendships).

 

Thoughts?

 

I think, what's important when it comes to marriage and opposite sex friendships, is to hook up with someone who shares your views on the subject.

[Sauron]

I'm sure that is the case sometimes...but not all women/men are attractive to every other woman/man. Sometimes, the other person just doesn't do it for you, right?

 

No, I pretty much find all attractive women, well attractive.

[Sauron]

Why? Because it is different than you? Maybe you are the one with a hormone imbalance? Why assume you are correct?

 

I have been friends with guys in the past, I am friends with guys now, some have shown they have a sexual interest, others have not and have said as so. I do not think men are so base that they are interested in everything with a vagina if they find them passably attractive. Maybe I am giving men too much credit?

 

My fiance is friends with women, I am fine with it. He is very transparent with everything and is open to anything if I have a concern. I do not have qualms with him with other women including his ex wife. I think mixed genders can be very good relationships but it does come down to boundaries, absolutely. But it is about the individual and I don't see the need in throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

I can only speak for me, but have been around men long enough to know that we all think pretty much think a like. You may be to young to remember President Carter's interview with playboy where he basically said he has lust in his heart, same thing. Even if we don't articulate it, we all are thinking about what a woman might be like in bed.

[Sauron]

But do you ACT upon it? Or, do you act inappropriately to the extent that you don't feel you can have these women as friends?

 

Some of my long-standing male friends have lamented that timing and/or other relationships stood in the way of a sexual connection. And on two of those occasions specifically, we were able to re-address those comments YEARS later and acknowledge that the friendship is stronger by not succumbing to those urges.

 

I'm one of those open and frank people - much to some chagrin - and I discuss these issues with my friends. We get it out in the open and demystify it, possibly (probably!) diffusing the sexual context.

 

I suppose that depends on the timing and circumstance. If I see a woman at a restaurant with her family of course not. But it doesn't change the thought process.

[Sauron]

I disagree with this assessment. I feel that any person who thinks about having sex with every attractive person they lay their eyes on has some underlying issue that requires attention from the opposite sex to salve whatever it is that's bothering them.

 

I do not have female friends. When I was younger I tried to have a female roommate on several occasions and it never worked out because we always ended up in bed and started getting weird. If I have a female friend the topic invariably turns to sex.

[Sauron]

Apparently for some, people of the opposite sex are to be regarded in a sexual light only and not for their mind. If they build their R's the same way they build their friendships, they will never have a long lasting, healthy R.

 

Also, if I went through life thinking my man secretly wanted to screw every good looking woman whose image touched his retina, I would feel pretty insecure about our R.

 

 

I always appreciate an intelligent woman, especially if she is naked. I think nature made men the way we are so we would continue to propagate our species. Trying to make us behave otherwise is against our nature. If there is a male/female friendship, I would think sex crosses both of the friends minds, but more so the man.

[Sauron]

Yes, you did. I did as well, but actually BT was the main man. He made an irrefutable point that cannot be disputed, and which has been purposely ignored or twisted. Very telling.

 

BTW, I had a great time last night with two of my guy friends. Lots of singing and swing dancing. So much fun and great exercise too, and we all had more fun because of each other. One of the definitions of friendship, IMO, is that you enhance each other's lives. Adults know how to do that without the exchange of bodily fluids.

 

 

This doesn't mean that they weren't thinking about having sex with you. I would submit the longer you are friends with a male the stronger the thoughts become from the male that he wants you, whether for a quickie or something on a regular basis.

[Silly_Girl]

This doesn't mean that they weren't thinking about having sex with you. I would submit the longer you are friends with a male the stronger the thoughts become from the male that he wants you, whether for a quickie or something on a regular basis.

 

I disagree. Hence the term 'friend-zone'. There is a peak quite early on, when getting to know someone, beyond which I am unlikely to ever view them in a sexual context and I see that as a pattern in both makes and females.

[Try]

I find that many that support opposite sex friends on this board are not married. A boyfriend or girlfriend relationship is not the same commitment as a marraige. I think that feelings on the issue changes for most once you get married. The majority of married people do not agree with opposite sex friendships, and if they do they have strong agreed upon boundaries.

 

The real worry of opposite sex friends is an emotional affairs (EA) that many good people fall into with no intent of initially cheating. Since there is no sex in an EA it is easy to rationalize that it is not cheating, but once you detach from your spouse and start to prioritize your EA partner, sex often follows. Read "Not Just Friends" to better understand the data on this.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Try

[threebyfate]

I find that many that support opposite sex friends on this board are not married. A boyfriend or girlfriend relationship is not the same commitment as a marraige. I think that feelings on the issue changes for most once you get married. The majority of married people do not agree with opposite sex friendships, and if they do they have strong agreed upon boundaries.

 

The real worry of opposite sex friends is an emotional affairs (EA) that many good people fall into with no intent of initially cheating. Since there is no sex in an EA it is easy to rationalize that it is not cheating, but once you detach from your spouse and start to prioritize your EA partner, sex often follows. Read "Not Just Friends" to better understand the data on this.

Married here and I support opposite gender friends. I've had male and female friends for most of my life and haven't cheated on any partner, whether emotionally or physically.

 

My attitude surrounds liking people, instead of walking penises or vaginas.

[Got it]

Married here and I support opposite gender friends. I've had male and female friends for most of my life and haven't cheated on any partner, whether emotionally or physically.

 

My attitude surrounds liking people, instead of walking penises or vaginas.

 

Now that was funny! A really bad image just flashed across my brain.

[threebyfate]

The question isn't really whether actual cheating occurs. It's whether the involvement with an opposite sex friend becomes so involving that it takes away from your primary relationship.

 

We've had at least one person on this thread state that she would rather give up her (prospective) spouse than give up her opposite-sex friendships. To me that indicates a pretty strong emotional attachment.

 

If you don't have any really close friendships with a member of the opposite sex which tends to exclude your spouse, then fine.

 

You're pretending as if the issue is just random friendships when obviously you know better than that, by virtue of having over 12,000 posts here.

 

Do you actually think most affairs start out with complete strangers? Or perhaps it is people who are friends with each other, then it becomes something more than friends?

I think that people with boundary problems will aways have boundary problems whether they befriend or hook up with randoms.

 

The mere fact that you would characterize it this way means you have a highly sexualized view of male/female relationships.

So if I said the grass is green, would this be symbolic of the duplicity of the Libertarian Movement in Afghanistan?

[threebyfate]

That's just the point a lot of people in this thread seem to be missing. Avoiding entanglements with opposite sex friends, over involvement, IS for the purpose of setting a boundary. Pretending that there's no danger in these kinds of friendships is erasing the boundary.

No matter what imaginary story you build, it doesn't change the fact that people who lack boundaries will find someone to cheat with. Cheating isn't an accident. It's a choice. Anyone who takes that choice isn't partner material and should be left like road kill.

[threebyfate]

Spending lots of time with opposite sex friends in the absence of one's spouse is a "lack" of "boundaries," which for some reason you don't seem to get. You keep talking about people who lack boundaries, yet you endorse not having boundaries.

If they lack boundaries, they're going to find a way to cheat, whether they hook up through cyberspace, at the work place, as a friend, doesn't matter. Cheaters will find a way. Cheating has a sexual element but at the end of the day, cheating has more to do with a lack of self-esteem where people need to tap it from external sources. You can't play warden for people who can't be happy within themselves.

 

That's right, and many people start out by spending lots of time alone with members of the opposite sex that they like, have fun with, and have some attraction to, in the absence of spouses. It's called "playing with fire" and "playing with fire" is a choice.

These aren't honest friendships. They're using others for validation devices.

 

Just like all the people who blow their fingers off with fireworks on the 4th of July. I'm sure the vast majority of those people didn't intentionally maim themselves. They just wanted to have fun that day. But they didn't have good boundaries in terms of safe handling of fireworks. I'll also bet that in plenty of those cases they had friends egging them on calling them "chicken" if they didn't hold that M-80 or cherry bomb in their hands until the last possible second....so that was a "choice" too.

Stupid people will be stupid. You can't control stupidity.

 

If someone like you can't even keep themselves from spending signficant time away from their spouse with an opposite sex friend when there supposedly isn't a whole lot of attraction, then how exactly do you expect anyone to believe you can resist the situation when the attraction is much stronger?

 

By magic?

Lots of assumptions here with little substance.

 

If my prospective spouse told me to my face she would dump me rather than give up her old boyfriends, why should I believe that that is partner material?

Since I don't know your prospective spouse, it's impossible to comment.

 

You're welcome to believe whatever you want to believe but in the end, this is about trust and insecurity within you. Time to address it or you're not fit for an emotionally functional relationship.

[threebyfate]

LOL, this thread is ABOUT setting a boundary. It's like you're not even listening.

Go ahead, believe you can bubble any prospective partner but at the end of the day, cheaters will find ways to cheat. Learn to trust your partner and most importantly, yourself.

[Mme. Chaucer]

No, Doug. No.

[threebyfate]

Yes we get it. Cheaters cheat because they are cheaters.

 

Do you have anything to add to the discussion aside from pure tautology?

Sure. The ex-husband and my husband play on the same men's league basketball team. My husband invited him and the two get along fine.

 

My last ex is also a family friend. He comes over when he's in town and socializes with all of our friends. Great guy, H. really likes him too.

 

There are two other exes who've remained in contact.

 

All four of these exes are purely platonic friends. I also have close male friends who are married to my close female friends. They're awesome men with awesome women.

 

It's lovely to get along with people as friends where my respect and love resides with my husband. He's so not insecure.

[Got it]

The question isn't really whether actual cheating occurs. It's whether the involvement with an opposite sex friend becomes so involving that it takes away from your primary relationship.

 

We've had at least one person on this thread state that she would rather give up her (prospective) spouse than give up her opposite-sex friendships. To me that indicates a pretty strong emotional attachment.

 

If you don't have any really close friendships with a member of the opposite sex which tends to exclude your spouse, then fine.

 

You're pretending as if the issue is just random friendships when obviously you know better than that, by virtue of having over 12,000 posts here.

 

Do you actually think most affairs start out with complete strangers? Or perhaps it is people who are friends with each other, then it becomes [/b]something more than friends?

 

 

 

 

The mere fact that you would characterize it this way means you have a highly sexualized view of male/female relationships.

 

Sure, some do. Some don't. There are MANY affairs that start out as strangers. Affairs happen in all contexts, all arrangements, all circumstances. There is no way to "affair proof" them by looking at the external factors/individuals. Affairs are prevented by the two persons in the partnership and their active and daily decision not to cross their boundaries emotionally and physically. But this is a case by case basis based on the agreement of the two parties.

[angie2443]

Actually, I think if one wanted to engage in an A, it would be safer with a stranger; you know, someone all your mutual friends don't know. It ain't rocket science.

.

 

Actually, the majority of affairs are not between strangers. The majority of affairs are between co-workers, friends, and family (family through marriage). There doesn't even have to be a big attraction, as long as both people involved aren't repulsive. If you think about it, it makes sense. People spend a good amount of time together, get confortable with each other, let down their guard a bit- it can leading to an affair if other ingrediants are there. If someone is going through a rough spot in their marriage or whatever, if someone just wants to escape home responsibilities (kids, bills), well, it provides the ingrediants for an affair. Even if sex doesn't take place, the bonding in these situations can take away the bonding that the marriage needs to stay strong. People don't have limetless amounts of time and energy to give to everyone.

 

Anyways, I'm not making a statement about friends of the opposite sex bieng good or bad. Like anything else, there's pros and cons to it if one is married. It depends a lot on how friendship is defined and what bounderies a person has or doesn't. It depends on what a person values more.

[angie2443]

Oh oh! I'd better stop going to work without my man along to watch me!

 

Are you ok? I never said that everyone at work was banging everyone else at work. Really, that wasn't my point at all. Why did you take what I said and twist it to mean something else?

[Driver12]

I'm really glad someone on my thread suggested reading this one - it makes Doug's assertions about me much easier to explain! If you haven't already, take a look at page 9 I think, Doug makes a fantastic imaginary story out of me wanting to see a play with a work friend!

[angie2443]

No, hon, that wasn't meant for you. lol Sorry for the misunderstanding!

 

No problem:)