Do you (OWs) ask MM doing things for you?

[Summer Breeze]

That would simply be because they have precious little else to offer.

 

I suppose it depends on what you're expecting. I fell in love with a man and I got to have a R with him that I wouldn't trade for the world. He offered me more than I hoped I could find at that stage in my life.

[carhill]

I do...:confused: Basically I ask MM fixing all the stuff in my home...And he loves to do the kind of work as well.

IME, along with a very few direct requests, most of the dynamic was creating a 'solution' environment by the OW's, generally by complaining about certain issues. Men are generally solution-oriented, and women know this, so those with the proclivity to take advantage of it are generally skilled at doing so. I wouldn't say this dynamic was unique to OW's; nearly all the women I've known in life have presented the behavior in one form or another.

[Summer Breeze]

You make good points. Most MMs cannot give lavish presents because they may have to explain the expenses to the wife. However, I believe they are more giving in terms of romance than single men because the dating pool is so much smaller.

 

I didn't make the points you're speaking of. You did. I'd appreciate it if you'd play around with your own words and leave mine alone.

 

And I disagree about the romance level between M and S. If someone is wooing you then they do it. What makes you think it's so different from a person who is M to one who is S? I can probably answer that from your posts--because it's what you assume to be true and what gets a good dig in. In all honesty I think your post is OT. You're not appearing to participate in the discussion you're merely pushing buttons and not responding to the OP. Maybe you should start a thread of your own more suited to what you want to say.

[Tenacity]

MM give way more to their women than single men (SG) do.

 

SGs have the entire population of available women in his dating pool.

 

MM has a much smaller pool of available women because most women see marriage as deal breaker.

 

Therefore MMs give more, whether it is money, service, gifts, romance, or attention. MMs do not have many other alternatives whereas SGs have a much larger dating pool.

 

More lectures and 'facts' based on nothing concrete except your official opinion of one.

[Leelou]

Unlike single men, married men do not mind spending money on the women they are seeing.

Ha ha, my MM didn't like spending money (if he could help it). I was the one spending money.

 

He DID however, offer to help around my house, although I didn't take advantage of that. But it was nice to see he cared. He knew a lot of things.

 

In return I would occasionally bring a home-cooked meal for his lunch, at his work.

[cocorico]

I didn't ask him to do anything. I'm independent, lived my life for decades without the need to ask a man (or woman) to help.

 

Did he offer? Did he spontaneously do things to help? Yes of course he did! When people live and care about each other, they do what they can to make the life of their loved one nicer, happier or easier. He gave freely of his time, effort, money, skills or connections, whenever he saw an opportunity.

 

Was it one way? Of course not! Neither of us was using the other. It was a fully mutual R that enriched both our lives in all kinds of ways.

[Summer Breeze]

The single guys in the pinned "Who pays for the date" thread out on the Dating forum would love you. There are over 80 pages of ridiculous disseratations of why they won't spring for a cup of coffee for a woman.

 

But in my wildest dreams I couldn't ever imagine paying my own way on a 'date' with some married man. You'd better believe he's going to be doing the paying for the priviledge of my company if I'm going to be wasting prime dating time on a dead end like him. Hell, the available guys I date NOW won't let me pay, so why in HELL would I pay to be with a married one? That makes my head hurt.

 

Well I guess that speaks volumes of the differences in people. I couldn't ever imagine NOT paying my own way on a date with anyone. I also wouldn't waste time dating anyone, M or S, who I thought was a waste of time. I don't have anyone pay for the privilege of my company. I am around people I enjoy and I pay my own way. I'm sorry your head hurts but Tylenol might help.

 

 

I agree with you. Most of them cry that their wives would notice money missing, so not only do they get women to waste their time with them, but they also get a cheap date on top of it because they won't pay for anything.

I can only speak for my situation and what I read in here. DMM never cried about his W finding money missing. I made it clear to him from the start I pay my own way and that I'm not one for huge gifts and a fuss. It was more important to me that he was physically there for me at times of crisis and happiness. His presence was much more important than any presents could possibly have been.

 

Single men in the REAL world are pretty generous. The mostly bitter ones on that thead here on LS, however, are a bit of a different breed.

I find single men very generous but I tend to make my own way and happily keep my independence and power by doing it. We're all different though.

 

 

Responses in bold.

[Got it]

The dating pool of single men is much larger than the dating pool of men that are married.

 

Do you agree?

 

No

 

 

(ten characters)

[woinlove]

The dating pool of single men is much larger than the dating pool of men that are married.

 

Do you agree?

 

Probably depends what you mean by "dating". Based on stats that are around, a rough estimate is about 50% of men will cheat sometime during their marriage, with the average length of infidelity being 1-2 years, so most men are not cheating at any given time. Some of those who are cheating choose prostitutes or escorts, some ONS, some only internet sex. The number of married men who are open to "dating" at any given time is smaller than the number of single men, but if you broaden your definition of "dating", they may be more comparable sized pools.

[woinlove]

I should also add that among those who are open to cheating at any given time are already cheating with an OW and not open to dating a second OW. Those you would need to catch before or after their current OW, and they would need to be serial cheaters. So even amongst the pool of married men open to cheating, only a small fraction of them are available for dating.

[Got it]

The implication is that married women are as available as single women.

 

Not necessarily. I am saying that marital status obviously is not a definitive preventative so I am saying married men have potentially similar size pool of potential candidates as single men.

 

I am also saying that married women may have potentially similar size pool of potential candidates as single women.

[woinlove]

Maybe I am not stating my point clearly.

 

A married man has less options than a single man when it comes to getting women.

 

The latter assumes equal looks and socioeconomic status.

 

Or, sorry, I misunderstood. Yes, single men have more options for dating. I'm surprised Got it, thinks otherwise, but maybe she interpreted your point as I did. Sure, there are women who are happy to date MM, some who even prefer MM, but the majority of women who are looking for dates, want to date available men.

[Got it]

And "getting" women? What does that mean? A man can not disclose his marital status (which does happen) and then he is on similar playing field as the single guy as he is a "pretend" single guy. And I think there is statistically a great chance, on both sides, to have a ONS even with disclosure of marital status.

[Got it]

Or, sorry, I misunderstood. Yes, single men have more options for dating. I'm surprised Got it, thinks otherwise, but maybe she interpreted your point as I did. Sure, there are women who are happy to date MM, some who even prefer MM, but the majority of women who are looking for dates, want to date available men.

 

No I understood.

 

My thinking, statistically, if looking at a man's batting average, the number of women he may proposition to the number that takes him up on it is smaller (depending on looks, status, etc but even still there are more strikes than home runs). So add in marital status, that will cause some additional strikes yes. BUT given a different grouping of women he may be interacting with, whether or not one discloses their marital status, the type of relationship they are extending, whether or not we are even discuss anything physical, all of that can easily lead to a higher batting average.

 

Especially in the way of an EA. I think women may be more relaxed with a man who is married because he feels "safer" because he is already married. So safer to be friends as sex is off the table. But as they develop the friendships, feelings get involved, and then bam, you have an EA and potentially a PA. I think that there is a blurring of lines, or going down this path, more often with a married man than a single one.

 

A married man is not always looking for someone else or targeting this person. He is just walking along in his life, level of contentment varying, but just walking along. He meets people (especially for the non serial cheater), he has people in his life, no biggie. He has new person, becomes friendly, nice enough girl, dadadum, just going along. They talk more, discuss things in common, wow a greater girl than I initial thought and wow she is kind of cute. Conversations continue, more commonalities, discussion of thoughts, feelings, opening up, and well you see where this goes. Suddenly things are developing.

 

So in this case, since I do not think the majority of men who cheat are actually out there playing the odds, they are not actively looking. The person they have something in common with becomes someone that is more than interesting. But if you are looking at it statistically, this person is batting 100 because they weren't casting any other nets.

[Got it]

You make a valid point. But, at the same time your point supports my view. The MM must lie and pass for a single to even the playing field.

 

No. I am saying that it may happen. I am not saying it must happen. It is just one way that it can happen which would greatly increase said odds.

 

But I do not think most MM are out there casting nets at the frequency that single guys are. But it is about the quality not the quantity. So less nets cast, more catches is a better ratio.

[woinlove]

A man with more options may be less attentive to women when compared to a man with less options.

 

Yes, I certainly noticed a different dynamic. Single men have to be more cautious as their words may lead to expectations from them. MM can be pretty free with the "madly in love with you" stuff, because they have a built in excuse for not turning that into a committed R. MM can act like you are the love of their life, the most amazing woman they have ever met, and then they go home and sleep with their wives. Quite a deal, actually.

[woinlove]

Got It, you describe a more oblivious way of living than I can really relate to. I do recall being a bit like that when I was a teen, but as an adult, I like to be actively engaged in my life, in my choices, in who I spend time with, what impact I am having, what I am feeling. I notice a lot of people in affairs talk like they are just passive vessels for life happening to them, affairs creeping into their lives undetected, but I'm not convinced they are actually all that passive. I think some may be that passive. But I also think people use denial to do things they selfishly want to do but do not want to think of themselves as the type of person to do those things.

 

I suppose some really clueless man could set a net for one woman without realizing he was setting a net and then unsuspectingly end up in an affair. He'd have to be prettty clueless though. Personally, I like intelligent and self-aware men who actively live the life they want. More likely, even the so-called clueless man is doing exactly what he wants and is selfish and he may be denying to himself some of what it is he is doing in order to feel better about himself.

Edited October 12, 2012 by woinlove

[Got it]

Got It, you describe a more oblivious way of living than I can really relate to. I do recall being a bit like that when I was a teen, but as an adult, I like to be actively engaged in my life, in my choices, in who I spend time with, what impact I am having, what I am feeling. I notice a lot of people in affairs talk like they are just passive vessels for life happening to them, affairs creeping into their lives undetected, but I'm not convinced they are actually all that passive. I think some may be that passive. But I also think people use denial to do things they selfishly want to do but do not want to think of themselves as the type of person to do those things.

 

I suppose some really clueless man could set a net for one woman without realizing he was setting a net and then unsuspectingly end up in an affair. He'd have to be prettty clueless though. Personally, I like intelligent and self-aware men who actively live the life they want. More likely, even the so-called clueless man is doing exactly what he wants and is selfish and he may be denying to himself some of what it is he is doing in order to feel better about himself.

 

Wolove - I was speaking theoretically. Regardless if you are like this, believe it what have you, based on my observations and conversations this isn't terribly uncommon. I do think women tend to be more in tune and aware than men but again could be the subset of individuals I have crossed paths with.

 

I am glad to here your personal preference in men.

[Got it]

I fully agree, but in my experience from both sides of the fence the interactions within an EMR tend to be more romantic and detailed. There is the sense that one belongs to a very select club with only two members. The married person gets to experience this window into a very exciting bubble and it becomes a strong addiction.

 

The single person feels she or he has met a a soul mate and the obstacles to go into a full relationship creates a greater degree of OCD and suddenly the attention paid to the other person is through the roof. It is not uncommon for folks in EMRs to text constantly for days.

 

I agree though I am not sure about the soul mate thing. I have seen that term vomited about in many different types of romantic relationships.

 

Again, I think, looking at the scenario given, based on the crux of it, the emotions are going to be higher because it started off on a more emotional stance.

 

But not all affairs are like this, many that are ONS do not have these features obviously. And others can ebb and flow in regards to communication. The ones that become relationships have more communication, discussion, etc. and can be consuming. My relationship with dMM, when it started, was very similar to the beginning of my relationship with my ex.

[MissBee]

Let me try again:

 

A single man has a larger pool of women that may want to date him.

 

A married man has a smaller pool of women that may want to date him because for many women marriage is a no no.

 

This makes sense...or seems like common sense to me.

 

Married men don't "date" in the same ways that single men do. There are all kinds of MM of course...so some perhaps do actively pursue dating relationships by pretending to be single, or they go to special dating sites for people cheating but generally, it seems many "end up" in an A for reasons that aren't like normal dating. Ever notice, hardly anyone "finds themselves in a relationship with a single partner" ...yet people "find themselves in an A". So there is obviously usually a different approach and many MM with OW probably wouldn't consider themselves as being a part of the dating game.

 

Single people have friends hooking them up, or it's often an understood and forthright thing that people want partnership and are "on the market". Naturally, most people don't see married people in that way and I'd not think of a nice woman to hook up my married male friend with like I would a SG friend, and if they were acting "single" it would seem very weird to me. So that alone makes MM who are "dating" resigned to specialized circles, as most people assume if you're married you are not pursuing dating relationships. And yes most single people when thinking of people to date don't consider married ones as fair and viable options...some do of course...but I think the majority rule them out.

Edited October 12, 2012 by MissBee

[MissBee]

It makes me sad that people seem to think they can't find this in single men. Makes me question the quality of people that some of you must be coming into contact with. For what it's worth I've never encountered all this fear of committment crap in any guy, so I don't understand. Isn't that supposed to be one of the goals of dating, getting INVOLVED with someone? Maybe I'm confused but why would a guy be dating if he wasn't looking to be involved.

 

I've never encountered that in single guys. There was no "obsessive texting for days" in my EMA but there have been a random one or two single ones in my life that acted that way in the past.

 

Consider yourself lucky...

 

Check out the dating forum and relationship sections of bookstores. You'll find all kinds of titles on How to Make a Man Commit, and various permutations of that sort, which show that there is a market for this kind of advice because lots of single people seem to be experiencing that kind of thing.

 

People date for all kinds of reasons...one thing people should learn. The reasons you date aren't why another does; hence, so many people end up hurt and confused when dating for them means "looking for my future spouse" when for another it means "steady sex and fun times until something better comes along". I for example, now that I'm in a different place in life, consider myself as "dating with a purpose". Before, dating just meant seeing someone casually, liking their company with no plans of a "real relationship" in mind.

[woinlove]

It makes me sad that people seem to think they can't find this in single men. Makes me question the quality of people that some of you must be coming into contact with. For what it's worth I've never encountered all this fear of committment crap in any guy, so I don't understand. Isn't that supposed to be one of the goals of dating, getting INVOLVED with someone? Maybe I'm confused but why would a guy be dating if he wasn't looking to be involved.

 

I've never encountered that in single guys. There was no "obsessive texting for days" in my EMA but there have been a random one or two single ones in my life that acted that way in the past.

 

I meant the opposite of the way you read it. Single men are less likely to make a woman think they are madly in love and want a committed R unless they actually feel that way and want a committed R. Married men can talk as if they have found their one soul mate who they want to spend their life with, but, alas, they are married, so they can't follow through. Lots of examples here on LS of MM doing this.

 

ETA: don't be sad. I meant that single guys are great. They are cautious about leading you to believe they want to spend their life with you when they don't want to do that. That's the way they should be. There would be a lot less pain seen on LS if MM were as honest. Now, that's something to be sad about -- MM who make OW think they will leave their M and be with them.

Edited October 12, 2012 by woinlove

[woinlove]

Ever notice, hardly anyone "finds themselves in a relationship with a single partner" ...yet people "find themselves in an A".

 

That made me laugh.

[AnotherRound]

I never asked exMM to do things for me. I'm pretty independent and do everything by myself (including minor car repairs and such). But, if he was over and saw something that needed fixing or doing, he just did it. Or, he would get me the stuff I would need to do the job. He has changed a lot of light bulbs for me, lol - bc he's much taller than I am, and it's easier for him. He has also changed bulbs in my car for me - as those are a little frustrating at times.

 

He would help me do my laundry if he was here and I was folding it or whatever - he would pitch in and help me. He helped me take the trash out many times, did little things around my house for or with me. Stuff like that. I never wanted him to buy me things, and if he did, I wanted practical things - bc those are gifts that I can use and I'm not really frivolous with money. He has sent me flowers several times, which is nice - but I'd prefer home supplies, lol.

 

He also changed my oil for me - bc I would just do it myself. It's an easy job, but he said that I shouldn't have to change my own oil - but I like doing it myself so I know it's done correctly. So, he did that often for me - and I assisted...

[AnotherRound]

You change your own oil??????

 

Wow! What a woman!

 

I will confess I never changed oil in my entire life. I take the car in for schedule maintenance. When I was married my wife took the car to the shop for me.

 

In any event it is normal for men to do the things you mentioned above. I can do all of the above except the oil.

 

Lol... I do, always have. My Grandfather showed me how to do it when I was a teenager, and change tires too. It's a lot cheaper to just do it myself, and it's a really easy job. Honestly, the hardest part is waiting for the old oil to drain out so I can seal it back up, lol. That way, the only money I spend is the oil and the filter. MUCH cheaper - and if you have a car that isn't low (mine is super low, I have to use ramps), it's even easier.

 

My Grandfather was determined that I was going to be able to "take care of myself"... lol. He did a good job in that department - recently, I actually replaced the belt on my own dryer - saved myself about 150$ all together. And, felt pretty damn proud of myself afterwards when it actually worked! lol