Update: Part 3

[AnotherRound]

Update: The exgf has been committed, against her will, to a psychiatric hospital - I had nothing to do with it. Turns out, I didn't need to do a thing, as she has so little impulse control that she worked herself right into the hospital herself. They can only hold her for 96 hours against her will - I have no idea if she will stay after that time is up - but maybe this will help her understand that she can't just go all half cocked every time she feels the urge. She was admitted yesterday afternoon, so, she has some time to sit and stew I guess - and probably will be medicated, my guess.

 

ExMM called me the other night and we talked at length about the situation. He expressed an apology for the fact that I was having to deal with her, as he has been exhausted with her. He couldn't do anything bc of the RO, they do work both ways. However, she did attempt to contact him (again) after she got no response from me. Only, she simply messaged him "What happened to you? Are you okay?". Lmao. WHAT? After all she has done, and ROs, that's her question? Unbalanced - wowsas.

 

So, he took the message to the police, she broke the RO. When they approached her about it, she went BALLISTIC. Said that he was stalking her, that I was stalking her, etc. My exbf is a PO, and he contacted me personally - he was aware of the situation as we talked previously. He asked me for input, I explained about the recent emails. He said she was acting "nutty" (he's not a mental health worker, but a PO, they have little tolerance for aggression towards them, regardless of its cause). She became physically aggressive with the police, they took her to the psych ward instead of the jail - but she will have charges when she is released. For violating the RO with exMM, for aggression and resist of arrest with the police - and I shot the emails to my exbf bc he wanted to see their content. My attorney friend is drafting an RO for me - apparently, she made some comments about me to the police (aside from trying to accuse me of stalking her, lol) and they were taken as "threats" against me. With that and the emails, enough for an RO. It will be signed today by the judge and effective - so, she can no longer contact me in any way, nor be within 100 feet of me, my business, or my home.

 

ExMM called me last night to give me the update. He was glad that I didn't have to 96 hour her as he didn't want me to have to deal with her at all - as he is well aware how "off" she is. He knows I have enough of my own crap to deal with, and was glad that she basically hung herself and I didn't have to "deal" with it at all. Not to mention, she doesn't get any phone calls, and the ROs are on file with the hospital, so she can't contact us at least for 96 hours - and then after that, would be in violation if she does. So, saving all contacts if she does - and next time, she will go to jail.

 

And now, the local police are aware of her after dealing with her yesterday, and she isn't in our town - so, they will be on the lookout for her around here. She has no business in our town, and the police will be ready to question her if she is here - so, again, she dug her own hole with all of this without one ounce of help from me. I'm sorry she's off her rocker, but glad that I don't have to deal - and that I can now get an RO. And since exMM is separated and in the process of divorce, nobody has an issue with him "dating" me, and she just looks, well, crazier for being so jealous and stalkerish.

 

So, I've been busy with work, and am glad that I now have legal recourse if she even attempts to contact me. I like my boundaries solid, and now they are not only solid, but legal. ExMM was glad that I can get a RO too now, as he was worried about the "blow up" that might have happened if she had attempted to "confront" me in person. He was concerned bc he said that he KNOWS that I would "never in a million years" let someone push me around... and he's right. I don't care who she thinks she is, she had no right to contact me and try to instigate anything and now she is getting a taste of her own medicine - and I bet it's bitter.

 

So, no worries. Everything is right where it needs to be, and I can exclude her from my life totally - and legally. Thanks for the feedback and the responses. I appreciate the kind words, and just wanted to let everyone know that I did not engage, and it took care of itself.

Edited October 11, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Owl]

There you go. The situation resolved itself, and there was no need for you to take any kind of action that could have been called into question.

 

Now you can just focus on taking care of you...which is how it should be anyway.

[UpwardForward]

So she's 'off her rocker'. Is that what the profession calls it?

 

I still think you should have tried to talk to her, reason with her and her emails.

 

What good does it do with the supposed state she's in now.

[AnotherRound]

So she's 'off her rocker'. Is that what the profession calls it?

 

I still think you should have tried to talk to her, reason with her and her emails.

 

What good does it do with the supposed state she's in now.

 

No, obviously that's not a professional term, lol. If I wrote that in my notes, someone would have my head! But, since she isn't a client of mine, and this isn't a note, I'm not being as PC as I would be when personally dealing with someone who is exhibiting mental illness. I honestly don't know if hers is mental illness, or just a character flaw - I haven't spoken with her at all, so can't make that dx. Just guessing.

 

I don't think that reasoning with her would have done anything but exhaust me and push her further over the edge. She doesn't want the truth, obviously - she wants her truth to be validated. I can't do that for her, and even if I could, since she has decided I am the root of all of her problems, I'm pretty sure that she wouldn't listen to me anyway. And, I have a lot going on - dealing with people who not only need my help, but want it - and pay good money to have me emotionally and mentally present for them. She doesn't get "free" counseling just bc she makes a lot of noise - not my problem, not my situation - and I have no time for it. I can't save the world, I learned that a LONG time ago.

 

I'm glad that I didn't do anything. But I'm not going to lie, I'm also glad that she escalated on her own bc it allowed me to get a RO - which is what I wanted. That way, I won't HAVE to handle her - bc it's not my problem. So now, the police can deal with her - and from what I heard, she was no picnic, so, she's on their bad side already. She made the mess all by herself - with no help from anyone else. She worked herself into a frenzy, acted out, didn't control her impulses - and is now going to have some very real natural consequences for that - after she is treated for any mental health issues she MIGHT have. The hospital might release her with no dx, and off to jail she goes. Again, it is not my problem. She has absolutely no more to do with me than anyone else that has dated my exbf's after me. Not even sure why she thinks she needs to be in my life at all.

 

So, these venting posts will have some pretty unPC language, lol. Sometimes, I just want to be "normal" too and call what I see as I see it. I can't be in counselor mode 100% of the time - that would cause burnout WAY too quickly, and I have too much to do to let her cause me to not be able to perform my job - for clients who are willing and ready to work on their issues.

 

Just glad it's over - the RO is good for a year, and I can have it renewed if need be. A year free from her is good enough for now... 365 days of silence. If not? Legal recourse. It worked out perfectly, and without me doing a single thing, other than answering questions from the police. And, exMM didn't get any of the fallout either. As far as I'm concerned, it was perfect, and exactly what she chose - so everyone wins.

[Saba]

Hmmm I guess since no question was asked all comments are fair game.

 

This all sounds really dubious to me. Can't wait for the next drama to unfold.

[cocorico]

AR this sounds like a really good outcome.

[2sunny]

More drama and more communication because MM gets another ego feed.

 

When are YOU going to stop allowing all his chaos?

 

I'm getting concerned about YOUR choices to keep feeding the monster (MM).

 

He sure needs his ego feed often! I guess he figures you're the gal to do that for him!

[seren]

AR, if you think my post is not suitable or pertinent to this thread, I will ask to have it removed, but what you have posted has really given me food for thought and I am genuinely seeking answers or opinions.

 

As an XBS I am still being contacted every now and again by the OW, the early years she did some pretty nasty things, not to H, but directed at me. For those who know my backstory, I had helped her to escape domestic violence when her H found out, so I couldn't understand why she would obsess about me. But I figured it came from her being hurt and the lack of closure about the A. I spoke to her a few times when she looked for answers and was the target of her and her friends drive by's, hang up obscene calls and of course the sending of stuff. I hated what she had done, but could only feel sorry for her, she was obviously not acting rationaly and obviously looking for answers and felt only I could give them and directing her anger at me, but I figured I could deal with it.

 

Even now, some five years later, she pops up now and again with hang up calls and I just get the number blocked. H has suggested we go to the police, but I don't feel comfortable doing that. I just say XOW, I know this is you, it isn't achieving anything, but I hope you are OK, but she says nothing and just hangs up.

 

I wonder if there is a line for all of us that we say enough is enough, your posts have me questioning just what my line is. I know I have the contacts and personal skills to take her world apart, I am not comfortable even acknowledging I have arrived at that thought. I have read many threads here about where has been a D Day, the OW rejected and the anger at realising they had been lied to and many times, the advice is to send all evidence, tell the BS all, look for answers and this seems to be a similar situation, albeit she is an OOW. Maybe if the MM had been staying married she might have targetted the BS, but it seems she is identifying you as the primary relationship, even though it is over.

 

I am glad you have closure and hope it remains that way, but there is a part of me that feels compassion for the OOW and hopes that she too gets to a place where this MM doesn't make her feel so much pain. Not condoning her actions. It has just made me question how much attention I an OW or indeed any BS should give to the feelings of loss, rejection and seeking of the OW, or OOW.

 

MOD's if this is seen as inflammatory and AR, if you think so, please report and ask to have moved to General.

I wish you well AR, onwards and upwards xx

Edited October 12, 2012 by seren
clarity

[angie2443]

Hmmm I guess since no question was asked all comments are fair game.

 

This all sounds really dubious to me. Can't wait for the next drama to unfold.

 

This is what I was thinking. I don't understand why OP doesn't have more compassion for this oow. It appears to me that this MM/xMM caused both of them, and the wife I'm sure, a lot of pain. Funny, though, he seems to be getting the benifits of this drama, while everyone else gets pain and having their lives turned into chaos.

[Got it]

AR, if you think my post is not suitable or pertinent to this thread, I will ask to have it removed, but what you have posted has really given me food for thought and I am genuinely seeking answers or opinions.

 

As an XBS I am still being contacted every now and again by the OW, the early years she did some pretty nasty things, not to H, but directed at me. For those who know my backstory, I had helped her to escape domestic violence when her H found out, so I couldn't understand why she would obsess about me. But I figured it came from her being hurt and the lack of closure about the A. I spoke to her a few times when she looked for answers and was the target of her and her friends drive by's, hang up obscene calls and of course the sending of stuff. I hated what she had done, but could only feel sorry for her, she was obviously not acting rationaly and obviously looking for answers and felt only I could give them and directing her anger at me, but I figured I could deal with it.

 

Even now, some five years later, she pops up now and again with hang up calls and I just get the number blocked. H has suggested we go to the police, but I don't feel comfortable doing that. I just say XOW, I know this is you, it isn't achieving anything, but I hope you are OK, but she says nothing and just hangs up.

 

I wonder if there is a line for all of us that we say enough is enough, your posts have me questioning just what my line is. I know I have the contacts and personal skills to take her world apart, I am not comfortable even acknowledging I have arrived at that thought. I have read many threads here about where has been a D Day, the OW rejected and the anger at realising they had been lied to and many times, the advice is to send all evidence, tell the BS all, look for answers and this seems to be a similar situation, albeit she is an OOW. Maybe if the MM had been staying married she might have targetted the BS, but it seems she is identifying you as the primary relationship, even though it is over.

 

I am glad you have closure and hope it remains that way, but there is a part of me that feels compassion for the OOW and hopes that she too gets to a place where this MM doesn't make her feel so much pain. Not condoning her actions. It has just made me question how much attention I an OW or indeed any BS should give to the feelings of loss, rejection and seeking of the OW, or OOW.

 

MOD's if this is seen as inflammatory and AR, if you think so, please report and ask to have moved to General.

I wish you well AR, onwards and upwards xx

 

Seren, I have bolded your one statement because, for me, this is the crux or the line. No one can make another do anything. We feel things but another is not forcing us to put it into action. So I think how much one should allow is based on that line.

 

In your case I think your sympathy is admirable but there comes a time where there is a line where the help, sympathy, etc. and any actions tied to it are at the detriment to you. And at that point you have crossed your line. That does not mean you need to put in active energies pushing the opposite way but it a point where you recognize that things are now in the red and you will work to get things righted again.

 

I am sympathetic towards anyone for their feelings and understand a certain level of lack of stability but there gets to be a point where you stop being a victim and become a willing participant/instigator. In AR's case, the MM has a RO against the OOW. He is investing no energies towards her. At that point any continuation is one sided. I do not think he is responsible for her continued feelings or actions going forward. She is responsible for them and she is 100% responsible for her actions. I understand that he may have caused her a great deal of pain, may have been unfair, untruthful, whatever. Whatever the case it is awful. But she is responsible for working through those feelings on her own or getting appropriate help. Just because we want someone to recognize us, hear us, feel us, doesn't mean that we have the right to that. We cannot force that upon someone if it is not desired. And that is, I am sure, where the RO came in.

 

It seems that when someone causes us pain they should have to be present to see the consequences to it. But that is not our reality. They have the right to choice to stay there and witness it or not. And if one forces themselves upon them or their world legal action is granted.

 

We can not make someone love us, care about us, heal us, or support us. We, as humans, need to make sure we do it on our own or finding appropriate help/resources. Imposing our will upon another is unlawful.

[Got it]

This is what I was thinking. I don't understand why OP doesn't have more compassion for this oow. It appears to me that this MM/xMM caused both of them, and the wife I'm sure, a lot of pain. Funny, though, he seems to be getting the benifits of this drama, while everyone else gets pain and having their lives turned into chaos.

 

Why? At what point does the ability to blame another for one's continued pain reach an expiration date? Or is one allowed to continue indefinitely putting the onus on another?

[AnotherRound]

Hmmm I guess since no question was asked all comments are fair game.

 

This all sounds really dubious to me. Can't wait for the next drama to unfold.

 

No questions, just an update since the other thread was closed. I agree, I'm surprised it worked itself out so quickly, but glad it did. And even though she was resistant to going to the psych hospital, I hope that if she is truly unbalanced that she gets the help she so desperately needs. I think it is very telling that after she sent me the scathing email that she turned around and sent exMM the message as if they are old friends and had just lost touch briefly - after all that she has done. Hopefully there won't be any more drama ever - but at least for a long time. I guess if she wants to spend some time in jail, that's her right and her choice - but at that point, then I'm guaranteed no contact from her - which is exactly what I want - no contact.

[AnotherRound]

More drama and more communication because MM gets another ego feed.

 

When are YOU going to stop allowing all his chaos?

 

I'm getting concerned about YOUR choices to keep feeding the monster (MM).

 

He sure needs his ego feed often! I guess he figures you're the gal to do that for him!

 

I honestly have no idea what you mean here? ExMM and I were never NC, that wasn't the deal???? And, the communication from her to him was only her, against a RO... so, I'm not sure how that's him seeking to have his ego fed? And he and I have never stopped communicating, so, ??? And, our communication about this I guess could feed his ego - but he isn't seeking it out. In fact, like I said, he doesn't even want to talk about her bc she represents nothing but stress and drama to him - hence the RO. ????

[AnotherRound]

AR, if you think my post is not suitable or pertinent to this thread, I will ask to have it removed, but what you have posted has really given me food for thought and I am genuinely seeking answers or opinions.

 

As an XBS I am still being contacted every now and again by the OW, the early years she did some pretty nasty things, not to H, but directed at me. For those who know my backstory, I had helped her to escape domestic violence when her H found out, so I couldn't understand why she would obsess about me. But I figured it came from her being hurt and the lack of closure about the A.

I'm sure this is true. However, someone else's hurt does not give them the right to intrude on my life, especially when I am not the one that caused that hurt.

I spoke to her a few times when she looked for answers and was the target of her and her friends drive by's, hang up obscene calls and of course the sending of stuff. I hated what she had done, but could only feel sorry for her, she was obviously not acting rationaly and obviously looking for answers and felt only I could give them and directing her anger at me, but I figured I could deal with it.

 

I CAN deal with it - I choose not to. To me, this is the weirdest thing bc I have never had an exgf of a former bf show up and start harassing me simply bc I was still in touch with him. I know that she is jealous of me, that the fact that he still wants contact with me and not with her is driving her to do these things - but it is her job, as a grown woman in her 50s, to accept that they just did not work out (and honestly, if she didn't act like a teenager, they might have). I mean, what is she going to do? Follow him around the rest of her life and harass anyone he dates or talks to? Does that even make sense to anyone????

 

Even now, some five years later, she pops up now and again with hang up calls and I just get the number blocked. H has suggested we go to the police, but I don't feel comfortable doing that. I just say XOW, I know this is you, it isn't achieving anything, but I hope you are OK, but she says nothing and just hangs up.

 

I do hope she is okay - as much as I hope any stranger is okay. I'm not emotionally invested in her, and even if I was, I do not allow my boundaries to be pushed for the benefit of others. It's unhealthy, and it's not my job to be what everyone in the world "needs" me to be. I am just me, and I have every right to protect those boundaries as I see fit - and I do, and I did. It is her job to respect those boundaries. So, when she doesn't, I have every right to use whatever resources are available to enforce them. That's why ROs exist - bc some people care nothing about other people's boundaries, she is obviously one of those people.

 

I wonder if there is a line for all of us that we say enough is enough, your posts have me questioning just what my line is. I know I have the contacts and personal skills to take her world apart, I am not comfortable even acknowledging I have arrived at that thought. I have read many threads here about where has been a D Day, the OW rejected and the anger at realising they had been lied to and many times, the advice is to send all evidence, tell the BS all, look for answers and this seems to be a similar situation, albeit she is an OOW. Maybe if the MM had been staying married she might have targetted the BS, but it seems she is identifying you as the primary relationship, even though it is over.

 

She did target the BS, initially (although the BS was never really betrayed). She targeted exMM, then the BS, then exMM again, then their child - and now me. Oh, and she targeted one of exMMs bosses, and several friends. She is desperately trying to work her way back into exMMs world - by any means necessary. Like a child, any attention is "good" attention. I have to assume that without legal action, she will continue to try to work her way through anyone and everyone that she can in an effort to be relevant to exMMs life. That is NOT normal.

 

I'm sure that exMM didn't lie to her. He is not a deceitful MM, never has been. She knew he was married from the get go (unlike me) and he is not her first MM. She has also done this with other MMs - as ExMM found out later when people started talking after her tantrums around here. She obviously doesn't like to be rejected - and honestly, I think she has some sort of personality disorder - and is VERY insecure, bc she is trying way too hard to force her way into people's lives and then can't handle it when they aren't interested. I think in her head she can't understand why anyone wouldn't be falling at her feet - so, this complete rejection (ROS and avoidance) are driving her crazy. That's my best guess - and I don't have to play her games. Unstable or not, she is not my problem nor my concern.

I am glad you have closure and hope it remains that way, but there is a part of me that feels compassion for the OOW and hopes that she too gets to a place where this MM doesn't make her feel so much pain.

 

She is grown. She is in control of her own self, or should be. Feeling pain is one thing - acting out against others bc you feel pain is a whole other thing. And is very unbecoming on anyone, but especially a mother and grandmother. It is immature and extremely unattractive. I have compassion for her as a fellow human - but if her ego can't take a simply rejection by a "mate", there is something wrong. A person rejecting you should NOT cause you to freak out - especially when her own actions are what caused the ROs and complete avoidance in the first place. She is trying to FORCE herself into a relationship with someone who has decided he does not want a relationship with her. That is unhealthy, and frankly, odd to me. He can't "make" her feel anything - that is her choice. If someone rejects me, I don't stay and try to change their mind or force them to "like" me - I choose to walk away from them too. It's self respect and self esteem - which she obviously has little of.

 

Not condoning her actions. It has just made me question how much attention I an OW or indeed any BS should give to the feelings of loss, rejection and seeking of the OW, or OOW.

 

I'm sure this is different for everyone. For me, I value all feelings of all people. However, this does not mean that I let someone else use their feelings as a free ticket to cause me problems, or actual harm. We are all adults, and should be able to handle our own emotions - or know to seek outside help. If I can handle my own stuff, she can certainly handle her own stuff - since she has about 20 years experience over me. The fact that she can't, or won't, or chooses not to - is not my problem, nor my cross to bear. That's her gig, and she needs to handle it - on her own, or with help, but not by trying to spread it around to people who have nothing to do with it.

 

MOD's if this is seen as inflammatory and AR, if you think so, please report and ask to have moved to General.

I wish you well AR, onwards and upwards xx

 

Thanks. I don't think it was inflammatory - I didn't take it that way at least. I am solely speaking about ExMMs ex, nobody else in this post. These are simply my feelings about her and this whole situation - obviously, each situation will be different.

[AnotherRound]

This is what I was thinking. I don't understand why OP doesn't have more compassion for this oow. It appears to me that this MM/xMM caused both of them, and the wife I'm sure, a lot of pain. Funny, though, he seems to be getting the benifits of this drama, while everyone else gets pain and having their lives turned into chaos.

 

I do have compassion. Compassion does not mean that I should let my boundaries be trampled for her benefit. I did not cause her pain - and honestly, neither did exMM. She has worked herself into a frenzy in her own mind, and wants to lash out and blame others for the pain she is supposedly feeling. Her pain is her pain - we ALL handle pain in our lives. Why is she so ill equipped to handle her own? Why is that my responsibility to help her handle what she SHOULD be able to handle? I don't even know her, have no connection to her whatsoever - I don't take responsibility for the world's pain. If I did, I would cease to function - and cease to take care of myself. And that's my first priority, bc she obviously has no intention of looking out for my well-being.

 

As for ExMM, I'm not sure what his benefits are that he's getting from the drama. ??? He simply reported her for breaking the RO, which is exactly what the RO is set up to do. Keep her from contacting him bc she has proven that she can't be trusted with that freedom without abusing it. My RO is now in place too, so any contact from her is illegal. Those are her choices. I can't make her handle herself appropriately - but I can certainly assure that her imbalance doesn't negatively affect my life, and that's what I'm doing. There are a LOT of people in this world that can't handle themselves - she is obviously one of them. But that doesn't mean that I "owe" her anything. I'm not going to give her free counseling just bc she is trying to demand it, against my boundaries. That's insanity.

[AnotherRound]

Seren, I have bolded your one statement because, for me, this is the crux or the line. No one can make another do anything. We feel things but another is not forcing us to put it into action. So I think how much one should allow is based on that line.

 

In your case I think your sympathy is admirable but there comes a time where there is a line where the help, sympathy, etc. and any actions tied to it are at the detriment to you. And at that point you have crossed your line. That does not mean you need to put in active energies pushing the opposite way but it a point where you recognize that things are now in the red and you will work to get things righted again.

 

I am sympathetic towards anyone for their feelings and understand a certain level of lack of stability but there gets to be a point where you stop being a victim and become a willing participant/instigator. In AR's case, the MM has a RO against the OOW. He is investing no energies towards her. At that point any continuation is one sided. I do not think he is responsible for her continued feelings or actions going forward. She is responsible for them and she is 100% responsible for her actions. I understand that he may have caused her a great deal of pain, may have been unfair, untruthful, whatever. Whatever the case it is awful. But she is responsible for working through those feelings on her own or getting appropriate help. Just because we want someone to recognize us, hear us, feel us, doesn't mean that we have the right to that. We cannot force that upon someone if it is not desired. And that is, I am sure, where the RO came in.

 

It seems that when someone causes us pain they should have to be present to see the consequences to it. But that is not our reality. They have the right to choice to stay there and witness it or not. And if one forces themselves upon them or their world legal action is granted.

 

We can not make someone love us, care about us, heal us, or support us. We, as humans, need to make sure we do it on our own or finding appropriate help/resources. Imposing our will upon another is unlawful.

 

Exactly. Well said. What I was trying to say, just not as eloquently as you did. It has been 8 months of absolutely NC - and she is STILL trying to go through anyone and everyone to get to exMM. That's not love, it's obsession - and it's unhealthy, and honestly, creepy. And although I feel compassion for her, I will not take her unhealthiness and let it creep into my world. I work really hard to be in a healthy place, and to keep my boundaries solid - bc that is what is healthy for me. I will not let anyone, especially a stranger who I have never done anything to or with, push those boundaries around for their own benefit - and at the cost of my own well being.

 

Thanks for saying it so well!

[2sunny]

He's got her trying to create drama - and it ensues you to contact him = everyone is all up in rms - yet he stands there like the"innocent victim"!

 

Hy don't you see that as his ego feed? Why do YOU continue to buy into to HIS drama that HE created by sleeping with her = HE created it!

 

He will continue to choose unhealthy women - unless he COMPLETELY changes HIS moral compass!

 

Yet you play the role of compassionate listener to ALL his BS!

 

I'm sad for YOU that you are "buying into" his HUGE pile of crap!

[Got it]

He's got her trying to create drama - and it ensues you to contact him = everyone is all up in rms - yet he stands there like the"innocent victim"!

 

Hy don't you see that as his ego feed? Why do YOU continue to buy into to HIS drama that HE created by sleeping with her = HE created it!

 

He will continue to choose unhealthy women - unless he COMPLETELY changes HIS moral compass!

 

Yet you play the role of compassionate listener to ALL his BS!

 

I'm sad for YOU that you are "buying into" his HUGE pile of crap!

 

What evidence do you have to indicate he "got her trying to create drama"? He has had an RO for 8 months with her with no indication of any communication. How is he making her create drama?

 

I think this is the first time here that I have ever seen someone fight so hard to make the OWOOW a victim and not responsible for her actions!?!

 

At what point is this woman not responsible for her own actions? And why give this man so much power that you are working so hard to construe him as this amazing puppeteer of all these women? I agree he is responsible for having them introduced to each other's lives but I am hard pressed to think he is responsible for this women's actions towards AR after 8 months of no contact.

 

To me that is a major stretch.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Got it

[2sunny]

This MM CHOSE the chaos that comes with first having OW - then when he no longer had her - HE chose another OW...

 

Common denominator is HIM.

 

His wife was willing to go along with things until it all affected HER negatively... She was smart enough to have a boundary at that point that said NO MORE!

 

AR hasn't drawn that line for herself.

 

As long as she CHOOSES to keep the channel of communication open with a needy man that doesn't know how to be alone - she's fueling the fire by continuing down this path with him- THAT IS HER CHOICE!

 

She can't possibly be the victim - because she keeps in in contact with the MM - is she the victim of herself? HER choice by being STILL involved with HIM! It's a trickle down because he had this OOW... That makes her the victim of HERSELF = HER choices!

 

I think AR needs counseling herself to see why she would even consider talking to this MM when there ARE plenty of kind, loving and HEALTHY men on the planet.

 

She goes on dates (she says) but there's not any chance that THOSE guys could possibly be considered by her since SHE is still SO focused on her MM and what he is or isn't doing.

 

She could really cut off ALL forms of communication with him - but SHE hasn't! She's STILL completely INVESTED in his outcome.

 

That just isn't right for the guys she says she dates!

 

No HEALTHY woman would consider going BACKWARDS! Healthy would MOVE FORWARD without looking back or even wondering what he is or isn't doing.

[AnotherRound]

This MM CHOSE the chaos that comes with first having OW - then when he no longer had her - HE chose another OW...

 

Common denominator is HIM.

 

His wife was willing to go along with things until it all affected HER negatively... She was smart enough to have a boundary at that point that said NO MORE!

 

AR hasn't drawn that line for herself.

 

As long as she CHOOSES to keep the channel of communication open with a needy man that doesn't know how to be alone - she's fueling the fire by continuing down this path with him- THAT IS HER CHOICE!

 

She can't possibly be the victim - because she keeps in in contact with the MM - is she the victim of herself? HER choice by being STILL involved with HIM! It's a trickle down because he had this OOW... That makes her the victim of HERSELF = HER choices!

 

I think AR needs counseling herself to see why she would even consider talking to this MM when there ARE plenty of kind, loving and HEALTHY men on the planet.

 

She goes on dates (she says) but there's not any chance that THOSE guys could possibly be considered by her since SHE is still SO focused on her MM and what he is or isn't doing.

 

She could really cut off ALL forms of communication with him - but SHE hasn't! She's STILL completely INVESTED in his outcome.

 

That just isn't right for the guys she says she dates!

 

No HEALTHY woman would consider going BACKWARDS! Healthy would MOVE FORWARD without looking back or even wondering what he is or isn't doing.

 

I agree with Got It. You seem to be giving exMM a LOT of power over me, his stbxw, and the OW. He isn't communicating with the OW at all - everything she is doing is coming from her with absolutely no provocation from anyone else, period. She is obsessing, and carrying out behaviors that she chooses - with no feedback or input or stimulation from anyone else - at least not exMM, his stbxw, or myself. ????

 

I have had counseling - it's a requirement for what I do. I have been found, by experts, to be mentally and emotionally sound. I don't "need" counseling about this situation - I know exactly where I stand and what I'm doing. ExMM isn't controlling me - I'm not sure where you got that???? He has never controlled me, nor has he tried to. ? I have always dated, and have been pretty interested in a couple of the guys I've dated - but it just didn't work out, for whatever reason, completely independent of exMM.

 

I have said before about the one guy that I would really love to date - we date and hang out. But, he has a different religious belief than I do and that is very important to him - so, it just doesn't work on that level. That happens - I can't control that, and I'm not going to lie or convert in order to "get a man", lol. It just won't work, no big deal.

 

I am moving forward and am unsure as to why you think I'm going backwards? I ended the affair, moved on - he is now divorcing, and contacted me. It is a whole new ballgame now - he has been living separately for 8 months, and the divorce is progressing - he will soon be a single man - and will be "allowed" to date whomever he chooses. Just so happens, he has decided that he chooses me. This would be an entirely different relationship than the one we had before. It would be progressively different - to me, that's moving forward.

 

It sounds like you think I should NEVER date him again, despite his status? And, if that's your opinion, that's fine - but honestly, it's not your decision, it's mine. I am perfectly capable of making my own decisions about who I date or don't date, and I would date him if he was single and free to do so. If that happens (as it appears it will), and he is interested in dating me, then I am mostly sure that I will try it. Especially since it would be a chance to date him without the cloud of an affair over our heads, and see if we have what it takes to make it. I think we do - can't predict it, just a feeling I have. And, if I'm willing to take that chance, there really isn't anyone else, outside of he and I, that could even begin to try to make those decisions since it is solely between he and I.

 

As for him seeking ego feeds, I just don't see it. He isn't doing anything to provoke her... well, other than ignoring her, but he found that if he did try to reason with her, telling her honestly that he no longer wanted a relationship with her, that her behaviors escalated even more. He isn't doing anything to "drag" me into anything against my will. He's being very honest and open with me about where he is emotionally and mentally, as I am him. We will go from there - as any two consenting adults would do in any relationship. He doesn't even WANT to talk about the OW - if he wanted an ego feed, wouldn't he want to hear about it? We talked about it bc it affected both of us - then we talked about other things. It's not our main topic of discussion by any means, but people do talk about things that are going on in their lives with those they are communicating with.

 

Anyway, I think I see what you are thinking (maybe?), but I think you're way off base with it. ?? If it is as it appears, it seems that you think he is using me and getting an ego feed and that I am going to be blindsided or something? And, it may appear to you that is what is going on, but I can only tell you what I see and know, and that's what I'm telling you. If you don't believe it, I can't force you to, and since you don't know us and can't interact with us, I guess you'll just have to take it at my word. I'm pretty aware of the situation I'm dealing with, and pretty honest here about my thoughts and feelings - I can't make you believe it I guess. And, if you have condemned him forever more, that's your right, obviously - but it doesn't mean that I have to condemn him also. I KNOW this man, intimately, and have for 8 years now. I trust my analysis of him as a person and I know how he treats me - and I'm not scared at all.

[Quiet Storm]

I have had counseling - it's a requirement for what I do. I have been found, by experts, to be mentally and emotionally sound. I don't "need" counseling about this situation - I know exactly where I stand and what I'm doing.

 

Try to step outside of your situation and look at it objectively.

 

If you printed out all your posts from this website, and took them to one of your colleagues, what do you think their opinion would be?

[2sunny]

You use a lot of words to say you aren't handing him your power - yet you couldn't possibly be emotionally available for the guy you say you now date - because you focus so much energy on what's happening/not happening with the MM.

 

I never said I was giving your power to the MM, his wife, his OOW - you give evidence of doing that all on your own.

[truthbetold]

AR,

 

I know you've mentioned you can type super fast and just have a lot of thoughts to put out there, which is why your posts are really long, pretty much defending the same points in different framing. If you are not trying to convince us the reader, what are you trying to do?

 

It's pretty clear you only agree with those that resonate the same exact mindset, viewpoints.

 

A true clinician in any capacity knows that's it's futile to use grandiose verbosity. It's well known that anyone if talking to a general public (these forums) should use the most simplistic terms as not everyone has an advanced education, so I'm not sure why the incessant need to talk "above".

 

Honestly if you were truly good with things, you wouldn't need to defend them. It's why "some" of us are seeing the insecurity issues. If you're truly here to understand a different viewpoint, then you would need to be open to understanding that. If you're just here to defend a blog...well that's a different story.

 

You're MM does have issues that it seems you want to defend. One of the biggest ones is his horrible boundaries of talking to you about other women. You should as a person in the healthcare profession, realize that someone who does that will do it to ANYONE. The fact that he tells you how vanilla the sex is with his wife is not only creepy, it's disrespectful not just to his wife but to YOU.

 

A woman with self esteem intact would run and not look back at a man that is capable of that. Because it shows that he has poor boundaries. You should not be his counselor. Defend it all you like but all he is doing is trying to set up a scenario where you want to "compete" to feel that you can be better.

 

If things don't work out with you two and he goes on to his next one. Realize he has shown through poor boundaries that he will talk down YOU to her too. It's how he will get that woman to sympathize with him and bond to him and think "I can give him what he needs, I can rock his world". I really think you should be open to thinking about what he would be like in a real time relationship, for YOU. Not for us. If you continue to write your defending diatribes, well I'd just ask you why you feel the need to do that?

[AnotherRound]

You use a lot of words to say you aren't handing him your power - yet you couldn't possibly be emotionally available for the guy you say you now date - because you focus so much energy on what's happening/not happening with the MM.

 

I never said I was giving your power to the MM, his wife, his OOW - you give evidence of doing that all on your own.

 

I would like for you to clarify what I am giving him power over? Because I'm interested in dating him once he is divorced? If so - then okay, he can have that "power", bc I would like to date him once he is divorced. And, I date several different guys - the one guy was just an example of how things sometimes just don't work out. I'm not investing in them bc they aren't the guy for me - it has nothing to do with exMM. I know when I click with someone, and when I don't. If I don't, I cut my losses and move on - I don't sweat it at all - why would I?

 

And, how much energy am I focusing on exMM? A few posts a day? Journaling about him? Because, that is how I process - that is well spent energy, imo. I like to think things through before I make any decisions - and this is a decision I will need to make, so I'm thinking it through. That's not giving someone "power" - it's making well thought out decisions. I spend energy on him bc I love him - I would spend the same energy thinking about anyone that I love if there was a "situation" involving that person. I think we view "power" as different things.

 

It seems that you think I'm giving him my power by simply caring about him. If that is the case, okay - if that's how you define power. It is not how I define power, but that's okay if it is how you see it. I feel that as long as I'm making my own decisions, not being forced or manipulated, then I will make my own choices and handle the consequences of those choices. That's what an adult does, imo. I'm well informed, have thought it out, and have ascertained that he is worth any "risks" that I can foresee (which are honestly no more risks than I would encounter in ANY relationship as far as I can tell from what I know of him). I'm sorry if that upsets you, but honestly, you are much more worried about me than you need to be - I am fine I am not in danger, and exMM is not trying to hurt me, nor would he ever. If he decides not to date me, or breaks up with me - I will be fine. It happens, it's life - it's not the end of the world, and I won't die from it - I will just carry on as I always have.

 

Honestly, I appreciate the concern - but I am wondering if you aren't possibly being triggered by something here as your reaction to this thread seems a bit beyond what it would maybe call for? I hope that's not the case, but it does seem probable since it appears that you are assuming a lot of things that you can't possibly know about the situation (that's what it seems like, as much of what you have said in this thread has been incorrect - like that exMM is seeking ego feeding?).

 

Anyway, again, thank you for your concern - and I think I see where you are coming from, but it does appear that you are incorrect on many of the details of the situation. It's all fine - no drama at all now that the OW is in the hospital and then will be in jail and now has 4 ROs against her, mine included. She will have legal consequences if she attempts to contact exMM, stbxw, their child, or myself.

[UpwardForward]

Try to step outside of your situation and look at it objectively.

 

If you printed out all your posts from this website, and took them to one of your colleagues, what do you think their opinion would be?

 

Are you sure you're prepared to counsel others?