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What are "fiery chariots" or "chariots of God" in the Bible?

M30USA

By M30USA
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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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Due to a previous thread getting deleted from an off-topic violation (my fault), I'm going to open this subject up again here. I really was beginning to enjoy the discussion.

 

Here are the main places where we see the idea of "chariots" in the Bible--which are clearly not ground chariots as we know them:

 

"The chariots of God are myriads, thousands upon thousands; the Lord is among them as at Sinai, in holiness." (Psalm 68:17)

 

"Behold, he comes up like clouds; his chariots like the whirlwind; his horses are swifter than eagles— woe to us, for we are ruined!" (Jeremiah 4:13)

 

"For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the whirlwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire." (Isaiah 66:5)

 

"...He [God] makes the clouds his chariot and rides on the wings of the wind." (Psalm 104:3)

 

"Again I lifted my eyes and saw, and behold, four chariots came out from between two mountains. And the mountains were mountains of bronze." (Zechariah 6:1)

 

***

 

In addition to these singular, isolated verses, we have the following accounts as a whole:

 

1) Elijah was taken up into heaven by a "fiery chariot" in 2 Kings. The proof of this not being a symbolic, spiritual, or visionary event was that Elijah's comrades searched for this PHYSICAL body for 3 days and never found it. Additionally, a group of boys came up to Elijah's associate, Elisha, and mocked him saying, "Go up, baldhead! Go up!"

 

2) Ezekiel 1 describes a craft coming down out of a terrible fire and whirlwind which had the description of being a "wheel within a wheel" and the color of "burnished bronze" and "beryl" (a glossy stone). There were angels in or around this "wheel within a wheel" which apparently direct the motion of the wheels. It says that wherever the angels went, the wheels went as well. Strange.

pie2 Established Member

pie2

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You weren't the only culprit driving the previous thread off course :o:)

 

Elijah was taken up into heaven by a "fiery chariot" in 2 Kings./QUOTE]

 

Jesus said, "No one has ascended into heaven, except for the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man".

 

The proof of this not being a symbolic, spiritual, or visionary event was that Elijah's comrades searched for this PHYSICAL body for 3 days and never found it. Additionally, a group of boys came up to Elijah's associate, Elisha, and mocked him saying, "Go up, baldhead! Go up!"

 

Seven years after Elijah's vision, Jehoram received a letter written by Elijah. I'd say that this is an equally strong argument that Elijah's life continued on earth, as not finding his body is evidence that he went to heaven in a chariot. ;)

 

Ezekiel 1 describes a craft coming down out of a terrible fire and whirlwind which had the description of being a "wheel within a wheel" and the color of "burnished bronze" and "beryl" (a glossy stone). There were angels in or around this "wheel within a wheel" which apparently direct the motion of the wheels. It says that wherever the angels went, the wheels went as well. Strange.

 

OK, Ezekiel desribed some extremely strange experiences throughout his book! But he was the first to admit that he was often experiencing visions (mental visions) of God and his kingdom...not actual visions of life in this reality.

 

I read an article that offers a biblical perspective on Ezekiel's visions. Basically, the author argues that the imagery in the passage focuses heavily on what Ezekiel described as "appearances" and "likenesses", which is evidence of the passage's symbolic nature.

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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Pie2,

 

You have actually gotten me to think seriously about certain verses. I'm currently checking out your point about how Jesus said no man ever ascended into heaven. And also how Elijah, you say, sent a letter 7 years after this event in 2 Kings.

 

Lots of times there are seeming contradictions.

 

For example, when someone argues that angels could not have sired children by human women (in Genesis 6), they quote Jesus where he said that the angels in heaven do not marry. The problems with this are many: 1) He specifies that the angels in HEAVEN do not marry--but there are angels on EARTH. 2) The Book of Jude reports that a certain amount of angels left their "proper abode" in heaven. 3) 2 Peter tells us that these same angels lusted after "strange flesh" in the same manner than the Sodomites lusted after strange flesh. It's interesting that in this very example, it not only refers to homesexuality, but more importantly there were humans that wanted to fornicate with the 2 angels that visited Sodom! This implies that the potential must have been there! (Isn't it interesting, too, how there are so many Hollywood movies, pop songs, and even ancient myths about aliens/angels coming to earth and having sex with human women?)

pie2 Established Member

pie2

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Isn't it interesting, too, how there are so many Hollywood movies, pop songs, and even ancient myths about aliens/angels coming to earth and having sex with human women?

 

M30...you are cracking me up...I can't think of one pop song that talks about this! Maybe I'm just not paying attention :)

 

For example, when someone argues that angels could not have sired children by human women (in Genesis 6)

 

Well, first we'd have to agree that that is what Genesis 6 is saying. The verse talks about the "sons of God" intermingling with the "daughters of man", which, when compared to the language used throughout the bible, is a reference to "believers" becoming unequally yoked to "non-believers". Based on other references, the verse is likely referring to descendants of Seth mixing with descendants of Cain.

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pie2 Established Member

pie2

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Of course you aren't paying attention. When you start....let me know which ones too. :laugh:

 

lol...well, I have been pretty out of touch with pop culture lately, so I guess you never know!

pie2 Established Member

pie2

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:D

 

No aliens....

 

Sooo beautiful :love:

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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M30...you are cracking me up...I can't think of one pop song that talks about this! Maybe I'm just not paying attention :)

 

Lady Gaga, just to name one.

 

There was also that famous 1960s movie about a woman giving birth to a person who was fathered by an alien.

 

 

Well, first we'd have to agree that that is what Genesis 6 is saying. The verse talks about the "sons of God" intermingling with the "daughters of man", which, when compared to the language used throughout the bible, is a reference to "believers" becoming unequally yoked to "non-believers". Based on other references, the verse is likely referring to descendants of Seth mixing with descendants of Cain.

 

My, my, my...that is not correct. The term "sons of God" is no longer understood, unfortunately.

 

Do some research. Every single use of the phrase "sons of God" in the Old Testament means angels. This is undeniable and well-established. Just do a simple study with a concordance. Even texts OUTSIDE the Bibe always call angels "sons of God". There are numerous translations of the Bible in modern English which just translate ALL uses of "sons of God" as angels.

 

NOW...

 

The only confusion comes in when the phrase "sons of God" is used in the NEW TESTAMENT. The case where you say it means "believers" is only when a person has been born again. People, in the natural-born state, are sons of Adam, not God. It's not until God re-creates us as direct creations that we are called "sons of God". The phrase "sons of God" always refers to a DIRECT CREATION OF GOD. This is why anglels are sons of God. Also, Adam was called a "son of God" because he was a direct creation.

 

This topic has been lost in modern theology. But even modern Rabbi scholars know the difference.

 

And as for your "line of Seth" theory...trust me on this one. I don't claim to be an expert on many things. But when I choose to discuss something, I know what I'm talking about. The "line of seht" theory didn't even exist until 450 AD, when it was introduced as a substitue to the universally-accepted angel theory which was starting to sound irrational and superstitious. But every early church father interetpreted it as angels having children with humen women. Additionally, if you read the research of Dr. Mike Heiser, who is a PhD in Hebrew, he shows why there are GRAMMATICAL reasons within the text why this "line of seth" theory falls apart.

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mercy Established Member

mercy

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There was also that famous 1960s movie about a woman giving birth to a person who was fathered by an alien.

 

 

 

 

Come on! Do you not have something BEFORE 1960? You New Ager you! :laugh::D

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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Come on! Do you not have something BEFORE 1960? You New Ager you! :laugh::D

 

How far do you want to go back?

 

The following ancient civilizations all have myths/records of beings from outside Earth coming down and having children with human women:

 

1) Sumer

2) Assyria

3) Egypt

4) Incas

5) Mayans

6) Persia

7) Greece

8) India

9) Bolivia

10) South Sea Islands

11) American Indians

12) Epic of Gilgamesh

13) Romans

 

Not to mention the most important one of all:

 

14) The Bible (Genesis 6, Jude, 2 Peter, etc.)

Edited by M30USA
mercy Established Member

mercy

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How far do you want to go back?

 

The following ancient civilizations all have myths/records of beings from outside Earth coming down and having children with human women:

 

1) Sumer

2) Assyria

3) Egypt

4) Incas

5) Mayans

6) Persia

7) Greece

8) India

9) Bolivia

10) South Sea Islands

11) American Indians

12) Epic of Gilgamesh

13) Romans

 

Not to mention the most important one of all:

 

14) The Bible (Genesis 6, Jude, 2 Peter, etc.)

 

My h is an angel, so is my baby girl genius. :love:

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IcedEarth Established Member

IcedEarth

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The ancient astronaut theory is way more interesting than any man made religion that's for sure.

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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The ancient astronaut theory is way more interesting than any man made religion that's for sure.

 

The ancient astronaut theory, largely started by Zecharia Sitchin, contains many partial truths, and for that reason is hard to pick apart. Read the research of Dr. Michael Heiser, a PhD in ancient Hebrew. He exposes how most of Sitchin's claims are based on faulty translation of Hebrew.

 

If you want the truth, the Bible has had this PEGGED for nearly 4000 years. It offers the most whole view of these visitors from earth. The problem with a purely scientific viewpoint is that it fails to incorporate the spiritual/religious nature of the ET phenomenon. It fails to explain why these seemingly-advanced visitors are so interested in spiritual subjects, the Bible, Christ, and numerous philosophical issues. That right there should be a tip-off that we are dealing with angels rather than biological beings as we know them.

 

My point is that, the more you research this subject, the more it blends in with religious/spiritual subjects.

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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My h is an angel, so is my baby girl genius. :love:

 

You know, that made me laugh. But there is a REASON why we started calling special people "angels": because angels truly appear human. So calling a loved one an "angel" is half endearing, and half humorous.

 

Here's a serious question to ponder:

 

If angels are on earth (as human in appearance) and, HYPOTHETICALLY, the government found out about it, what would their reaction and action be? Because I suggest to you this has already happened and, while the government doesn't necessarily view them as angels, they do know there are humans walking around that aren't from earth. Read the works of Richard Dolen, who says that the entire UFO/ET issue has become a matter of national security for these very reasons.

 

Those who laugh at this--especially my fellow Christians--how can you laugh when your very Bible says the SAME things have happened for thousands of years? Think about it. Is your Bible myth or is it REAL?

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mercy Established Member

mercy

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You know, that made me laugh.

 

Finally a laugh out of you! :p

 

If angels are on earth (as human in appearance) and, HYPOTHETICALLY, the government found out about it, what would their reaction and action be?

I see an Area 52 in our future.

 

 

^^In bold...

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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LOL, I have quite a reputation on here.

 

In my opinion, Area 51 is where they reverse engineer technology from outside earth.

 

Here are some things which happened shortly after the 1947 Roswell Incident:

 

1) The CIA was established (within weeks).

2) The Air Force became a separate entity from the government.

3) The microchip was "invented" (interesting because some self-reported witnesses of Roswell said they found small chip which looked like a "city" under a microscope).

4) The nation of Israel was established for the first time in 1900 years--as prophecied by the Bible.

mercy Established Member

mercy

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LOL, I have quite a reputation on here.

 

In my opinion, Area 51 is where they reverse engineer technology from outside earth.

 

Here are some things which happened shortly after the 1947 Roswell Incident:

 

1) The CIA was established (within weeks).

2) The Air Force became a separate entity from the government.

3) The microchip was "invented" (interesting because some self-reported witnesses of Roswell said they found small chip which looked like a "city" under a microscope).

4) The nation of Israel was established for the first time in 1900 years--as prophecied by the Bible.

 

5) And h was there.

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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5) And h was there.

 

Really? In what way?

TheFinalWord Established Member

TheFinalWord

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LOL, I have quite a reputation on here.

 

In my opinion, Area 51 is where they reverse engineer technology from outside earth.

 

Here are some things which happened shortly after the 1947 Roswell Incident:

 

1) The CIA was established (within weeks).

2) The Air Force became a separate entity from the government.

3) The microchip was "invented" (interesting because some self-reported witnesses of Roswell said they found small chip which looked like a "city" under a microscope).

4) The nation of Israel was established for the first time in 1900 years--as prophecied by the Bible.

 

Yeah, I agree with point 4 :) Really crazy when you study the re-birth of Israel.

 

All the UFO stuff doesn't do it for me, though I have been sucked into watching many of those shows on History channel. To me, I hope they never figure out UFOs, big foot, lock ness, etc. Gives some mystery to life :) Always loved "In search of..." with Spock ;)

 

In Search Of: UFO Captives (Season 3 Episode 1) - YouTube

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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Eh, UFO shows on TV are part of the misinformation problem. Better to come at it primarily from a biblical standpoint, aided by the research of qualified experts.

 

It's funny, but even experts such as Dr Mack of Harvard, Dr Jacobs of Temple, etc, aren't Christian or religious yet the admit with bewilderment that so many of the events related to UFOs have religious themes. And, regarding the sexual/genetic experimentation, they admit it sounds ridiculous but they say its too consistent to blow off and it holds up against psychological evaluation.

mercy Established Member

mercy

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Really? In what way?

 

He said if he told me he'd have to kill me. Really, that's what he said. :laugh:

 

Seriously, he's old school, he doesn't go for all the chatter about that place.

 

I told you he was an angel (not an alien)! :love:

 

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Colossians 1:16 kjv)

pie2 Established Member

pie2

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I thought of you too when I read this article...

 

Giant, Mysterious Eyeball Found in Florida!

 

 

Do some research. Every single use of the phrase "sons of God" in the Old Testament means angels.

 

[beney ha'elohim]

 

1. Genesis 6:1 "...that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful".

 

2. Genesis 6:4 "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them".

 

3. Job 1:6 "now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them".

 

4. Job 2:1 "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them".

 

 

 

[beney 'elohim]

 

Deuteronomy 32:8 "...according to the number of the sons of God".

 

Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

 

 

 

[beney 'elim]

 

Psalm 29:1 "O give the Lord you sons of God..."

 

Psalm 89:5 "...who is like the Lord among the sons of God?"

 

 

3 different words!

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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No, not different words.

 

No more than cat, cats, cat's, and cats' are different words.

pie2 Established Member

pie2

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No, not different words.

 

No more than cat, cats, cat's, and cats' are different words.

 

lol, you're probably right!

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