Inappropriate?

[Driver12]

Hi, I've read the forums for a little while but this is my first thread

 

I've had a bit of an odd situation earlier today and I'm not sure what to make of it. Two years ago I was on an evening course for work (all attendees work for the same company) and I met a man who I got along really well with. He's married with children so it was all platonic, we just clicked.

 

Anyway, after the course ended that was it. Then about 5 months ago - through work - I bumped into him again and he asked me to stay for a chat once I'd finished my business in the building. Turned out he was doing the job I want to apply for had wanted to find out more about, so he suggested I shadow him. Over the last 3 months I've seen him most weeks and we still get on really well and have become friends.

 

Fast forward to earlier and we were talking about theatre - a shared interest - and offered him a spare ticket to a play I'm going to next week. Another friend was coming with me, but then could no longer make it so told me to find someone else and not worry about the money for the ticket. I'd asked all friends who I thought might be interested but no one could make it, so I thought nothing of offering it to him...He said he'd love to go a few times, but as he's moving house next week and not started packing, it might be difficult but he'd let me know. That was fine.

 

Later I happened to mention it to two other work colleagues (who don't have anything to do with him) and their reaction has made me a bit paranoid. They essentially said that I'd asked him out and if he were their husband, he wouldn't be going. I explained that he goes for coffee on his lunch hour with female friends and his wife has no problem with it, so why would that be any different? Even my mother said it might be inappropriate. Ever since then I've felt a bit funny about it...he sent me an email this afternoon - a day after the invite - saying something about work, then thanking me for the invitation but it'd be tricky with the house 'as he said'.

 

Sorry, I've gone on a bit of a ramble, but ever since then I've felt like it's been made more of than I ever intended it to be and I thought I'd get some fresh eyes/opinions!

[veryhappy]

I can't decide how innapropriate to quantify the invite, but I can tell you that most wives, when told their H were invited to see a play with a woman who's not 90 or their mom/grandma would not react well. My reaction would be "What does she want from you? You're not going." It's hard to be friends where there's any underlying chemistry on either side, and any W will assume this stranger is after her man.

 

I think you shouldn't beat yourself up. Your intentions were good. If he's weird around you, you should apologize and explain you didn't realize it could have come across as inappropriate, but if he's behaving normally, just move on.

[standtall]

drive12...as innocent as this sounds, what you did was definitely crossing the line. I am amazed that you do not see it, as most women have a certain degree of empathy..Put yourself in his wife's shoes..how would you feel.

[mammasita]

Perception is everything. You can't plainly see intentions.

[Driver12]

Thanks for your replies

 

JAP - The female friends aren't work people, they are 'outside' friends, but fair enough on the difference between coffee and an evening thing.

 

Standtall - I don't think I'd be that bothered by it, when I was with my ex he had female friends and they'd go on nights out together and I wasn't phased. I have other male friends that I go out with alone and their wives/girlfriends don't care (and don't know me either), so it's the first time it's come up for me

[standtall]

Thanks for your replies

 

J

 

Standtall - I don't think I'd be that bothered by it, when I was with my ex he had female friends and they'd go on nights out together and I wasn't phased. I have other male friends that I go out with alone and their wives/girlfriends don't care (and don't know me either), so it's the first time it's come up for me

 

I find that hard to believe. I think your just telling yourself what you want to hear. Now, your sounding like someone who respect other people.

 

Married men do not accompany women to the theater that are not their wives unless she is female relative. I'm a happily married man and I would never, ever consider it. At least he had the respect for his wife since you didn't.

[woinlove]

It sounds like your interactions with this man have not been taking away time from his family, since they have been during times he was away from home due to work. But your new request was asking something quite different from him - isn't that obvious? Probably he'll be with his wife and children that evening, packing or otherwise.

[Driver12]

I find that hard to believe. I think your just telling yourself what you want to hear. Now, your sounding like someone who respect other people.

 

I don't understand what you mean here - you find it hard to believe that I have male friends whom I go out with etc...and now I sound like someone who respects other people ???

 

Also re telling myself what I want to hear - I have no problem with him not going, it's no big deal to go by myself, I go regularly!

 

Married men do not accompany women to the theater that are not their wives unless she is female relative.

 

Plenty of my friends do do this and none of their spouses have batted an eyelid. Perhaps it's a generational thing, we're all in our 20s. The female colleagues I mentioned are 40+

 

I'm a happily married man and I would never, ever consider it. At least he had the respect for his wife since you didn't.

 

I think that's a little harsh; I asked him to a play with hundreds of other people not a hotel room!

 

Woinlove - Yes, it is different, I do see that. We've hung out after work hours on other occassions just for a chat though, thats why I thought nothing of it. As I said, he's got other female friends, I've got other married friends, I just had no idea it would seem like that big of a deal

 

It's really interesting to see the differing perspectives though

[maybealone]

Standtall - I don't think I'd be that bothered by it, when I was with my ex he had female friends and they'd go on nights out together and I wasn't phased. I have other male friends that I go out with alone and their wives/girlfriends don't care (and don't know me either), so it's the first time it's come up for me

 

Yeah, I agree with you. I'm just not the jealous type. If a guy is going to leave me for a female friend, then let him leave me. If I have to keep him leashed to keep him faithful, then I don't really want him around anyway.

 

That said, people like us are in the minority. Most women I know are very threatened by their husbands having female friends. I have some married male friends and we occasionally do things without spouses, but we more often do things with spouses so I think that makes it less inappropriate. I did get a laugh the other day when a coworker's wife drove an hour to have lunch with us when she found out we were having lunch together -- as I am the same age as his mom.

[KraftDinner]

I don't think your intentions were shady, but it's definitely a slippery slope a married man doesn't need to go down. So many affairs start in the workplace and you youself said "we just clicked." This is just so stereotypical of how these work affairs begin - two people are spending the majority of their day together every day and then it gradually moves to a drink or coffee after work and then plays or rides in the country or whatever.

 

You need to leave your work friendship at work.

 

Trying to compare his having coffee with a few female friends from the office during the day to going out at night to some play are two completely different things.

 

You didn't mean anything wrong. But yeah, it looks kind of inappropriate...but your intentions were totally innocent, I think.

 

If I were his wife I'd be pissed if he actually went...that would not fly with me!

[woinlove]

Plenty of my friends do do this and none of their spouses have batted an eyelid. Perhaps it's a generational thing, we're all in our 20s. The female colleagues I mentioned are 40+

 

I don't know if it is a generational thing. I think it depends how involved a parent and partner one is and how close and deep the other friendship is. If he's in his 20's then his children are probably still young. When juggling a career, marriage, children, if one is an involved parent and loving spouse, one doesn't casually give up an evening with family. I know when I was in that stage, career, marriage, children, a few very close friends, and gym time left little for anything else.

 

Do your friends who do this have young children and, if so, are they away at work all day and then make heavy use of babysitters during the evening? Or do they trade off evenings with the children - in which case they are not seeing much of their spouse? Or do they only do this infrequently? If the latter, that is the choice I am referring to when one is juggling all these important factors.

[2sunny]

If you wonder - go directly to his wife and ask her what she thinks.

[Eve]

I go out with colleagues and there is a male who usually takes on the driving. Sometimes it is just me and him in the car until we all meet up. We get on really well!

 

He comes to the house to pick me up and will come in to the family home etc. My Husband trusts me completely and could imagine nothing worse than going to places we go to (classy world cinema events).

 

My Hubby has gone to lunch with women on his own too and I have trusted him. So, I don't know - context is important and intention is everything.

 

I don't think you meant any wrong and would say that that is what matters. Not everyone wants to have affairs and I don't think it is good to be over cautious about these things unless there is an indication that something else could happen. So saying, I did have a so called friend who made a play for my Husband and neither of us saw it coming. As soon as we realised we dealt with the situation together.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[maybealone]

And all of those married men, without exception, eventually hit on me.

 

Every single one of them.

 

That's kind of my point. If the only thing standing between my man and adultery is opportunity, then I'd rather he have the opportunity so that I can find out the kind of man he really is and dump him. Because if I have to keep him from having friendships with women to keep him faithful, I don't want him.

 

I have married male friends now that I could get naked and throw myself at them and they wouldn't bat an eye. Coincidence or not, these are men in happy marriages who know how good they have it at home.

[Eve]

And all of those married men, without exception, eventually hit on me.

 

Every single one of them.

 

Gosh, that is a miserable personal statistic to have hold off!

 

That is shocking! In real life I can usually tell if someone is off that 'sub culture' type mind set which consider affairs/sexual deviancy to be ok - and I simply don't bother with them. My colleague who I spoke about earlier is not like that at all, hence I will go places with him and others who I work with. It all helps with our working relationship.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[Driver12]

Dougforthewin – Thanks, I’ll take a look at that other thread. Regarding other friends – in my first post I mentioned that I’d asked all the friends that would be interested but none could make it, hence offering it to him as we were having a conversation about it. I don’t mind going alone, I just thought I’d offer so it wouldn’t go to waste, I certainly don’t need a ‘date’ lol

 

Re your ETA bit – no, none at all. I didn’t say we each spent a lot of time doing things separately, we spent plenty of time together, but we were both free to have/socialize with friends of the opposite sex without the other being uncomfortable

 

Also, I never said my mother was wrong! I’m not saying anyone who disagrees is wrong at all, I’m genuinely interested in the differing perspectives

 

Maybealone – I’m really glad you posted! I can’t believe your coworker’s wife did that though, that’s really quite saddening

 

Woinlove – I don’t know how he is as a parent as that’s not the side of him I know, so I couldn’t tell you there. He’s in his 30’s, I’m in my 20s re generational thing. I think he would have probably said yes had they not been packing, he genuinely seemed enthusiastic to go, only the next day saying a roundabout ‘no’.

 

Yep, my friends with young children do go out like this, but a mix of all the options you gave!

 

2sunny – I’ve never met his wife, so that would be a really weird thing to do

 

JAP – That’s horrendous!

 

Eve – Thanks for your post, it sounds like your situation is similar. Sorry your ‘friend’ did that to you. I feel a bit funny in case anyone that knows us now thinks that I was asking him on a ‘date’ of sorts, when all it was, was a shared interest! When we work together we’re out and about in the car just the two of us, so it might sound stupid, but I don’t see a huge difference in sitting in the car chatting for hours alone. Also, prior to my offering the seat, he’d just asked me to be in his own play that he’s doing after Christmas. It’s really interesting to see what others think though

 

Thanks for all the replies so far, sorry if I’ve forgotton anyone

Edited October 13, 2012 by Driver12

[2sunny]

If you wonder at all - err on the side of caution!

 

This IS how many affairs begin..

 

I have many male married friends - and their wives know me as well - but I have a VERY firm boundary and these men know not to cross it.

[whichwayisup]

I find that hard to believe. I think your just telling yourself what you want to hear. Now, your sounding like someone who respect other people.

 

Married men do not accompany women to the theater that are not their wives unless she is female relative. I'm a happily married man and I would never, ever consider it. At least he had the respect for his wife since you didn't.

 

I agree. If your husband knew him and you socialized in a group with him and his wife, then that's different. But, your H doesn't know him and going to the theatre is just inappropriate. I wouldn't like it much if my H did that with some woman I'd never met, let alone only known for a few months (Ok, 3 months).

 

Why didn't you bring your husband to this event?

 

And, have you told your husband that it's possible this man is joining you? how does he feel about this?

[Driver12]

Whichwayisup - You've misinterpreted my post, I have no husband! We've known also each other 2 years, not 3 months - thats the time we've been working together

[woinlove]

Whichwayisup - You've misinterpreted my post, I have no husband! We've known also each other 2 years, not 3 months - thats the time we've been working together

 

I think what wwiu was picking up is that you met 2 years ago with work, then didn't have contact, then said you met again and became friends over the last 3 months. The point is do you feel like you are really best friends, one of a only a few? The reason this is relevant is because as I mention, any one who values their marriage and their children and works full time is juggling a lot of balls and there are only so many hours of the day, some of which are devoted to one's best friend or few best friends. There is not a whole lot left over.

 

I've been married for 25 years, we and our children are happy, and I really doubt we would all be in this happy state if my H and I didn't focus on the highest priorities - our R with each other, our young children, and careers, one 1 or 2 best friends each when our children were young. You suggest your friends in the 20's with young children and spouses go out with more casual friends, but I have to wonder where they will be in another decade. Each of these relationships - the one with children and the one with one's spouse and the one with one's best friends that may continue through your lifetime (mine have) takes time and effort. Most couples struggle with finding enough time to nuture their most intimate and important R - that with their spouse - during these years. It is a different matter when you remove children from this mix, literally freeing up many hours a day. So many marriages fail after couples have children, and I can't help thinking that what you describe of you and your friend's attitude, making time for casual evenings out on mutliple occasions, is an attitude which will eventually lead to their M decaying.

 

Of course, if you are thinking of their very best friends, it is a different matter, because those friends are close enough to understand all the demands and are willing to work with the constraints, often spending time together with the children or spouse present, to make sure the friendship gets nourished as well. That is what our best friends did.

 

It doesn't sound like you are best friends, but if you are then meeting when him and his children and/or wife is a good way to find time for the friendship and allow his role as father to thrive and respect his most important and intimate connection. I did that and my friends did that and it works well. Best friends will also have some alone time, but definitely not as much while there are young children to be raised.

Edited October 14, 2012 by woinlove

[Driver12]

Sorry, I wasn't clear - we initially met 2 years ago, but the course was for 6 months so we saw each other more frequently than the once perhaps implied.

 

And no, definitely not best friends!

[Sauron]

Well, here's another thought to ponder, kiddies.

 

Being extremely honest, over the years I've had quite a few married male friends through work or various associations of which I was a member. Not all at once, but over the last 30 years, I've befriended married men and been their buddies from time to time.

 

And all of those married men, without exception, eventually hit on me.

 

Every single one of them.

 

All of them were following natures intended plan. Didn't mean they didn't love wifey, just wanted to love you for an evening. And I suppose being extremely honest you never felt flattered, never took them up on the offer and reported them all to their wife?

[whichwayisup]

Whichwayisup - You've misinterpreted my post, I have no husband! We've known also each other 2 years, not 3 months - thats the time we've been working together

 

Okay but it's still inappropriate. If you were married and your husband befriended someone you didn't know, never met and that woman invited YOUR husband to the theatre, I'm sure it would bother you and make you wonder.

 

You're going to do what you're going to do, but you shouldn't be 'bestfriends' with a MM. His wife or a male friend should be his bestfriend.

 

It's a selfish, self serving friendship. You're not included in his daily life, with his wife and kids.

 

If you want friendship with him, then you need to invite him and his family out for dinner, or have them all over to your house. become friends with them both. If you don't, then the friendship is on shaky ground and you'll become too emotionally attached to him..Rely on him more than you should on an emotional level.

[Driver12]

Whichwayisup - woahh, that's a little heavy. Nobody said I was 'best friends' with him or ever wanted to be, Woinlove just used that term in an analogy.

 

And 'selfish, self serving friendship' - excuse me? We work together and are friends, it was never some elaborate plan to go to the theatre together and me poach him away from his family...we were talking about theatre, my friends couldn't go, so I made a casual offer of a ticket

 

'If you want friendship with him, then you need to invite him and his family out for dinner, or have them all over to your house. '

 

I really don't lol I have plenty of married and single friends of the opposite sex that I'm friends with individually - I don't need to be friends with the entire family. That said, I have no aversion to meeting his wife or anything like that

[AnotherRound]

I don't see a problem with it unless his wife is just really insecure about it. If that is the case, I would respect that - but I'm not sure how you would know that if he doesn't tell you what his wife thinks about it. I do know that there are married people (or even just in a LT relationship) though that see any kind of socializing alone with the opposite gender as a threat or crossing a boundary. If his wife is of that mind, she will not be okay with it.

 

I never put restrictions on my exH - but he did cheat on me, so, lol. Some people thought I gave him too much freedom - but honestly, I agree with the other poster in that if I have to leash someone to keep them faithful, then I don't want to be with them. I have been in LT relationships with people who abhor plays, while I LOVE them - so, they never wanted to go (just as I hate fishing, and just would rather do something else with my time). So, I went to plays with friends, male or female, and he went fishing with friends, male or female. It didn't bother me a bit - but I'm also very secure and accept that I can't stop someone from cheating if that's what they want to do. So, there's that...

 

If I was you, I would ask him if his wife is okay with it (if he decides to go). If he says no, then I wouldn't go as it's just going to bring drama from her. If he says she is okay with it, I would take him at his word (unless you KNOW differently) and go with him. Like you said, you aren't going to a hotel room - it's a play with hundreds (thousands?) of people present. I would drive separately, meet there, and enjoy the play - then part ways. Easy peasy - and you get to experience the play with a good friend that also appreciates it. It's better, imo, then dragging your SO along when they would rather tear out their own eyes than watch a play (my ex, lol!).