Inappropriate?

[angie2443]

 

Angie – I don’t need anyone to ‘tell me it’s okay’, I genuinely don’t see the issue with it, I was just interested in other peoples point of view after my colleagues reaction. I certainly don’t have ‘very weak boundaries’, I’m more than capable of having friendships with men, married and single and have done for many years. As I said in one of my first posts, I asked as this is the first time it’s come up for me.

 

Regarding responding favourably to some – of course I agree with their posts, as we are from the same school of thought! The ‘boundary’ is that is he married, there should be no need for any other stated boundary as it’s obvious from the above!

 

 

I thought you wanted some "fresh" opinions, or something like that. I don't see the point in asking for opinions if you're going to disagree with the ones that weren't yours to begin with. Maybe you were just seing how many people have a simular line of thinking as you, I don't know. You do seem very intent on defending going out with this guy. There's no law saying you can't. Really, I don't see what you're getting out of posting about this.

[standtall]

OP, you asked for the opinions, now you have them. Obviously not everyone agrees with yours..the question is, what are you going to do for future situations?

[Driver12]

Angie - please read my posts more thoroughly, we aren't going anywhere together. I do want fresh opinions, that's exactly why I posted, just out of interest/debate purposes. I didn't post for people to change my mind, I was genuinely curious as to others' thoughts on that kind of situation.

 

Standtall - I've no idea, I'm not adverse to seeing him socially obviously, but it depends entirely on the context and situation.

[Janesays]

Yes, it is wildly inappropriate to ask a married man on a date. I can't believe you actually have to ask this, it just seems so obvious. But kudos to the guy for saying 'no.'

[Driver12]

Cb3657 - Thank you for your well wishes And no, I haven't really, I don't think. However, I've maintained friendships (married people) for 10+ years and not had any issues

[Janesays]

Cb3657 - Thank you for your well wishes And no, I haven't really, I don't think. However, I've maintained friendships (married people) for 10+ years and not had any issues

 

Well, of course not. You're the single one. What issues could YOU possibly had. Doesn't mean your 'friends' haven't had issues. You likely just aren't privy to them.

 

I know, I know. You're just more secure and modern and progressive than all us old hags. You're also.....single.

[Driver12]

Janesays - For the last time, it's not, has never been and will never be a 'date' *sigh*. Of course that would be inappropriate, nobody in their right mind would ask a married person on a date, though going out for an evening with a friend is not a date, unless you count a married woman and I going out for an evening a date, of course

[Janesays]

Janesays - For the last time, it's not, has never been and will never be a 'date' *sigh*. Of course that would be inappropriate, nobody in their right mind would ask a married person on a date, though going out for an evening with a friend is not a date, unless you count a married woman and I going out for an evening a date, of course

 

Yes, it is a date. What is the difference between what you asked and what some other woman asks a guy she just met online? A man and a woman going out alone is a DATE. Most married women do not like their husbands dating other women.

 

Maybe when you're married you'll understand. *shrugs

[Driver12]

That's a reaching statement, and I find the inverted commas around friend offensive. They are my friends, I'm godmother to one of the guys' children, there has never been anything in a friendship other than exactly that.

 

I'm certainly not calling anyone an old hag or anything (those paraphrased words aren't mine to begin with), I think it's perfectly fine to have a different view point. If his or any of their wives had a problem with it, then of course that would be respected. Also, if I'm not privy to them, how on earth would I be supposed to know/change any behaviour??

[Driver12]

'Maybe when you're married you'll understand. *shrugs*'

 

Oh dear Lord lol. The difference between your scenario is that a woman meeting a man online - presumably on a dating website or something? - is the intent. In those circumstances, they are strangers getting to know each other and to develop a romantic relationship. I already know my friend, and my intent was to see a play with someone I know in a theatre with hundreds of other people and go home. Oh, and I date people with families #tongueincheek

[Janesays]

If his or any of their wives had a problem with it, then of course that would be respected. Also, if I'm not privy to them, how on earth would I be supposed to know/change any behaviour??

 

I know most men don't like to say things like, "I can't go out on dates with you because my wife wouldn't like it." Ever consider that perhaps they don't want to make their wives look like controlling shrews that keep them on a leash? Maybe the love and respect them more than that?

 

Further, a man isn't likely to say, "Hey, I'm married and therefore have no interest in going on a date with you." because they are smart enough to know that a statement like that, while true, will likely cause drama and every guy I know how a STRONG aversion to drama.

 

Instead, they will likely do what this guy did, make up some excuse.

 

How do you know you should change your behavior? Well, if you ask a married man on a date and he says 'no,' FOR ANY REASON, quit asking. He doesn't want to date you. If you persist, my guess is he will probably start 'casually' avoiding you.

 

The only married men who have interest in going on dates with you are one that ALSO have interest in seeing you naked. If you think otherwise, then you are quite naive. But you'll learn.

[Janesays]

The difference between your scenario is that a woman meeting a man online - presumably on a dating website or something? - is the intent.

 

Intent is subjective. Intent can also change after a few drinks. But regardless, I'm a scientist by profession. I don't deal with 'intentions.' I deal with facts. And the fact is a man and a woman going out alone is a date. Leave your 'intent' in your head where it belongs and look at your ACTIONS. You tried to date this man. Quit trying to talk your way out of it.

[Driver12]

Wow. I really would hate to be that cynical. Also, my friends are all grown ups so they could say they didn't fancy doing something without 'blaming' their wife or whoever, if someone doesn't want to do something, they say no. No problem, no big deal. Also, my friend didn't make up an excuse, again, read my posts more carefully.

 

For the last time - I asked, he responded, end of - I DON'T WANT TO DATE HIM OR ANY OTHER ALREADY MARRIED MAN.

[Janesays]

 

For the last time - I asked, he responded, end of - I DON'T WANT TO DATE HIM OR ANY OTHER ALREADY MARRIED MAN.

 

 

If that's true, then quit asking married men out on dates. Easy peasy. Why did this subject need a thread again?

[Driver12]

Janesays - I think you may have come into this thread with a certain predisposed position to how you read what I said. My ACTIONS were offering a friend with a shared interest a spare ticket that wasn't initially intended for him so it wouldn't go to waste. If that's a date, it must be the crappiest one in existence!

[Driver12]

If you don't like it, don't respond, nobody asked you to. Plenty of others responded - although disagreeing with my viewpoint - in a far less judgemental/rigid way, and I've appreciated all responses so far.

 

The intent of this thread wasn't for my life to be disected, just to engage a debate/opinions on what people thought of a situation that had surprised me

[Janesays]

Janesays - I think you may have come into this thread with a certain predisposed position to how you read what I said. My ACTIONS were offering a friend with a shared interest a spare ticket that wasn't initially intended for him so it wouldn't go to waste. If that's a date, it must be the crappiest one in existence!

 

Hey, I never said you invited him on a well planned date. I just said it was a date. And I personally think you started this thread with a little predisposition yourself. I think you want to hear that you're totally innocent and it's OK to ask married men out, alone, at night, without their wives, taking away from time they could have spent with their families, to....go 'hang out' with a single girl from work?

 

You SERIOUSLY don't see anything inappropriate with your actions?

 

Seriously?

 

If you're that....hate to be insulting, but 'dense' is the only word I can think of, then I (nor anyone else in this thread) can help you. Sorry.

 

Good luck dating your other married, but soon to be single 'friends.'

[Driver12]

Thanks, I'm sure my 10+ year friendships will be pleased with the well wishes

[standtall]

Jane...wow..way to cut through the smoke and mirrors and get right to it. From a married man's perspective, I agree, it was a date.

 

driver12..don't get defensive now. You did happen to ask for her opinion..see right here in your own words

 

Sorry, I've gone on a bit of a ramble, but ever since then I've felt like it's been made more of than I ever intended it to be and I thought I'd get some fresh eyes/opinions!

 

just because some posters are telling you what you don't want to hear doesn't mean they are disrespecting you etc..

 

If you don't want to hear the answer, then don't ask the question.

[Eve]

 

Take care,

Eve x

[woinlove]

Cb3657 - Thank you for your well wishes And no, I haven't really, I don't think. However, I've maintained friendships (married people) for 10+ years and not had any issues

 

I've maintained platonic friendships with a couple married men for over 20 years. Of course, I know their wives and children too. But I never asked them out for an evening alone when their children were young. Our alone time came from time when they would be away from home in any case, or they offered (usually because their wife and children would be away).

 

I did that because, as I said I have great respect for the amount of time needed to be an involved parent and a caring spouse while working. I really cared about them, and so by extension cared about their families who mean so much to them, and so it was natural not to ask them to take away an evening that had a high probability of being spent with the wife and/or children. This worked well, as all of us, decades later, are still happily married with great children.

 

Maybe if you have a close friendship with a working father who is really involved with his children and puts a high priority on maintaining a close, intimate connection with his W, you can use that experience to guide you with this man who you know less well.

[Janesays]

Thanks, I'm sure my 10+ year friendships will be pleased with the well wishes

 

You mean the friends you made in high school, I'm assuming, since you claim to be in your 20's? Give it another 5, tops, then come back here and tell me how many of your old high school buddies are still married. I'd also be interested to see if you managed to get married yourself, without changing your behavior, or if you stay the single girl who dates her married chums from 9th grade biology.

[Driver12]

Standtall - I'm getting defensive in terms of things that aren't in direct relation to the OP and my other friendships. It IS offensive to suggest that I'm not genuinely friends - by using the inverted commas around the word - with men i've known 10+ years, without issue.

 

As I've already said, I don't mind people disagreeing with what I think, as you said, it's why I started the thread. It's the insistence that Janesays IS right in the absolute that I take umbridge over. It's a discussion, she can be a scienctist and 'deal in fact' all she wants, but clearly by the other posts, these things are all subjective.

 

And just to issue a fact, from the online dictionary:

a. An engagement to go out socially with another personb. One's companion on such an outing.

b. An engagement for a performance:

[Driver12]

Standtall - no way can anyone day that this, from Janesays, isn't disrespectful:

 

' I'd also be interested to see if you managed to get married yourself, without changing your behavior, or if you stay the single girl who dates her married chums from 9th grade biology. '

[woinlove]

driver, one thing that stands out is you said you had married male friends and didn't know their wives or children and now you say you've had married male friends for over 10 years. How can you possibly be a good friend to someone and not even know the person who they share their lives with, spend almost all their time with?

 

For me, it has always been completely natural to meet my friends families - as I said with young children, this is about the only way you can spend time outside of work, is to spend it with them and their families. Aslo, being friends, they wanted me to meet their wives and children. How can one maintain a 10+ year friendship and not have this happen? Not want this to happen? When I have a good friend, I really care about them and care about the most important connections in their life.

 

Maybe you are just describing some casual more like acquaintances? In which case, I would question how involved they are as fathers and spouses if they are finding much alone time with acquaintances in the evenings.

Edited October 15, 2012 by woinlove