Inappropriate?

[2sunny]

Each partner needs to respect their own boundaries. It isn't about controlling another person, or your spouse. It's about being aware that slippery slopes exist and protecting yourself from behaving badly. People without boundaries, or who think " it could never happen to me" often end up, head in hands later, saying " why did I do this?".

 

As a mental health professional, you should read up on Glass. It might prove helpful to you on understanding what people are stating by boundaries, and how no one is either browbeating or trying to coerce their spouse into behavior against their will.

 

Dr. Shirley Glass - About the Book - NOT "Just Friends"

 

 

WHEN the BOUNDARY is agreed upon by the TWO people in the marriage - it is either respected and honored or its not.

 

The one who disrespects that agreement is the one that's changing that boundary and agreement without discussing exactly what's changed with he PRSON they made THAT agreement with/to.

 

That IS a type of CONTROL - a passive angry control.one based on dishonesty.

 

IF he WANTS to be your friend - it should be an agreement between him and his wife - and IF he intends to change THAT agreement - he should be brutally honest about that too!

 

Friends is much different than lovers. We don't know yet if we are trying to discuss the apple or the ornate or both - because his WIFE is the one who needs to be consulted about how SHE FEELS about this "friendship".

[2sunny]

You are the longterm OW in someone else's marriage. Of course you value personal freedom over marital ties.

 

And again- stop assuming that all spouses "force" their partners to have boundaries. You have been told repeatedly that isn't so, so I am not sure why you keep writing of it.

 

Could be that she's unfamiliar about what a healthy boundary looks like - one that doesn't involve being FORCED to do or not do anything...

 

Healthy doesn't involve "control" or being controlled or having controlling tendencies.

 

Healthy boundaries just are...with no effort...

 

I watch it and experience it every day...

[Decorative]

That's an excellent point.

[woinlove]

Could be that she's unfamiliar about what a healthy boundary looks like - one that doesn't involve being FORCED to do or not do anything...

 

Healthy doesn't involve "control" or being controlled or having controlling tendencies.

 

Healthy boundaries just are...with no effort...

 

I watch it and experience it every day...

 

Yes, I'm surprised at the language of "not allowed" and "forced" too - that would be unhealthy in any relationship between adults (excluding prison wardens and prisoners and such).

 

In my experience, when one is happily married, one is living how one wants and personal freedom and enjoying and respecting each other and the marital relationship are not at odds, but rather it all melds together to make life even better than it would be for each one alone as an individual. I don't think one has to have experienced a long and happy M to understand this, but perhaps it helps.

[AnotherRound]

Nothing inappropriate here. Everyone move along.....Nothing to see...

come on AR!

Call me insecure if you like, but if these male friends of yours are married, or in a relationship, that's just not cool.

 

What's not cool about it? Two grown people, lounging and watching a movie together hardly seems erotic to me. ????

 

What do you imagine we were doing? When I say "watching a movie together", there is no subtext - we were literally watching a movie together, in the same room of the same house. How you get that it is not cool is beyond me.

 

And this guy actually happens to be single - but even if he WAS in a relationship, I don't see why we shouldn't be allowed to carry on with our friendship. It is 100% platonic, we've been friends for about 11 years now, have never dated, never had anything sexual between us - but have often watched movies together as we like the same kind of movies and most of our friends don't - so it ends up being just me and him. If he has a SO and she wants to watch the movies with us, in her jammies, she is more than welcome! If she doesn't - why should he and I be denied our hanging out - the way we always have?

 

Some of this just sounds REALLY old fashioned - and like I said, to each his own - but I'm REALLY glad that I'm a GenXer bc some of those "rules" just seem really silly to me (no offense, I just don't see the value or the point of all the rules that are being tossed about ?). I mean - what are you trying to prevent? If something is happening, you are fooling yourself if you think you can stop it, imo. If nothing is happening, what are you afraid of? Why does it make YOU uncomfortable? Honestly - why?

[Eve]

You are the longterm OW in someone else's marriage. Of course you value personal freedom over marital ties.

 

And again- stop assuming that all spouses "force" their partners to have boundaries. You have been told repeatedly that isn't so, so I am not sure why you keep writing of it.

 

What? Really? AnotherRound! ... Gosh! Oh, I am talking about something else entirely.

 

Well, I will follow common sense. I can't stop my Husband having affairs and if I thought for one second that I had to be all over him to prevent him from doing so he would be out that door like a shot. Who has time for that?

 

.. but he is not that sort. He didn't even like it when my so called friend made a play for him. It creeped him out... especially as she came around (uninvited) whlist he was trying to watch a football match. That really pissed him off. Even I know not to bother him when he is watching football.

 

However I will say that I am sorry for you guys on here who have been cheated on. I did not mean to add to any pain or whatever that you have gone through.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[AnotherRound]

Could be that she's unfamiliar about what a healthy boundary looks like - one that doesn't involve being FORCED to do or not do anything...

 

Healthy doesn't involve "control" or being controlled or having controlling tendencies.

 

Healthy boundaries just are...with no effort...

 

I watch it and experience it every day...

 

Nah, I'm perfectly aware of what a healthy boundary is - I literally just presented about them a few days ago! lol I said, if both people agree, and nobody is being forced, then it is healthy for both involved. However, some of the posts don't sound like it is a mutual agreement - but one person enforcing their own boundaries onto someone else.

 

Healthy does not involve control - exactly - therefore, attempting to control someone elses boundaries bc your boundaries are more rigid IS controlling, and therefore not healthy. If that isn't happening in any of the poster's relationships - it doesn't apply to you. I wasn't insinuating it did - as I thought I was clear about that by saying "to each his own" and "if all parties are in agreement" etc ad nauseam. So, if someone is taking it personally, I think maybe they are being triggered or something - bc I wasn't implying that anyone responding is doing that - I was simply pointing out what I know to be healthy and not healthy regarding boundaries and how that works in the context of a relationship.

[eleanorrigby]

What's not cool about it? Two grown people, lounging and watching a movie together hardly seems erotic to me. ????

 

What do you imagine we were doing? When I say "watching a movie together", there is no subtext - we were literally watching a movie together, in the same room of the same house. How you get that it is not cool is beyond me.

 

And this guy actually happens to be single - but even if he WAS in a relationship, I don't see why we shouldn't be allowed to carry on with our friendship. It is 100% platonic, we've been friends for about 11 years now, have never dated, never had anything sexual between us - but have often watched movies together as we like the same kind of movies and most of our friends don't - so it ends up being just me and him. If he has a SO and she wants to watch the movies with us, in her jammies, she is more than welcome! If she doesn't - why should he and I be denied our hanging out - the way we always have?

 

Some of this just sounds REALLY old fashioned - and like I said, to each his own - but I'm REALLY glad that I'm a GenXer bc some of those "rules" just seem really silly to me (no offense, I just don't see the value or the point of all the rules that are being tossed about ?). I mean - what are you trying to prevent? If something is happening, you are fooling yourself if you think you can stop it, imo. If nothing is happening, what are you afraid of? Why does it make YOU uncomfortable? Honestly - why?

 

I've said many times why it makes me uncomfortable, I feel as if you are not getting it and I can't figure out any other way to explain it to you.

 

I'm not that much older then you and I'm not an old fashioned corset wearing prude. Trust.

[woinlove]

Nah, I'm perfectly aware of what a healthy boundary is - I literally just presented about them a few days ago! lol I said, if both people agree, and nobody is being forced, then it is healthy for both involved. However, some of the posts don't sound like it is a mutual agreement - but one person enforcing their own boundaries onto someone else.

 

Healthy does not involve control - exactly - therefore, attempting to control someone elses boundaries bc your boundaries are more rigid IS controlling, and therefore not healthy. If that isn't happening in any of the poster's relationships - it doesn't apply to you. I wasn't insinuating it did - as I thought I was clear about that by saying "to each his own" and "if all parties are in agreement" etc ad nauseam. So, if someone is taking it personally, I think maybe they are being triggered or something - bc I wasn't implying that anyone responding is doing that - I was simply pointing out what I know to be healthy and not healthy regarding boundaries and how that works in the context of a relationship.

 

You throw up another straw man. How does one adult control another? Are you talking abuse? No one has brought up abuse here. Each person is responsible for their own decisions. If one person makes a request and the other decides to comply, that is their choice. Similarly, if they decide not to comply that is their choice. It seems like you are off an a tangent with "not allowed", "forced to", "controlled" by another,.... Not sure what you are talking about, but it sounds more like a prison situation than a marriage between two mentally functioning adults, both responsible for their own decisions and actions. Do you feel controlled in your R's or A or do you control others? Where does all this come from, as it seems off-topic to this thread.

[Janesays]

I wonder what MM would say if his wife came home and informed him that SHE were going out on a "date" with some guy from work.

 

Yeah, I can totally imagine it!

 

"Hey sweetie? Do you mind watching the kids tonight? Because I plan to get all dolled up, put on my little black dress, heels, hair, make up, etc....so I can go to the theater with a single guy from work. You don't mind, do you?"

 

I don't 'control' or 'force' my boyfriend to do anything. (And, for the record, I'm a GenXer too, so PLEASE quit blaming your poor judgement and boundaries on the year you were born.) I simply say, "Hey this is what I expect out of a relationship. You either agree or disagree. If you disagree, then you don't HAVE to be in a relationship with me. Which means you can date the single girl from work." Am *I* not allowed to be in the type of relationship *I* want?

 

If it makes me 'old fashioned' to be in a relationship where my man doesn't go out on dates with other women, I guess I'm just old freaking fashioned.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

Well, I am truly shocked by the responses here. Men and women can be friends without owt happening.

 

I suppose the ladies here aren't taking any chances, at all, lol.

 

I have asked family members what they think to this discussion and they all think the same as what I have proposed. Shared interests are just that. If anything is getting a bit fruity then it is for the spouse to back off but with some people that just is not on the agenda. If there is sexual tension or something, don't go if you value your marriage - but really that is so obvious it is patronising.

 

Gosh, marriage isn't a trap! Then again, I don't feel threatened by other women.

 

My Husband would not propose anything outlandish but occassionally he will go out with others without me and there will be other women present. He has also taken an old friend to lunch. He asked me if I wanted to come but I declined because she is HIS friend.

 

I don't get how a meeting as proposed by the OP of three potential people going out can be deemed a date?

 

Take care,

Eve x

 

Eve,

 

I re-read the OP and don't see where the "three potential people going out" is mentioned or inferred. I read the situation as two tickets. The other friend could not make it, hence asking the MM.

 

Your scenarios above involves your husband going out in a group, which is much more appropriate than what the OP is proposing.

 

Would you be okay with your husband going to the theater with a single 20-something woman that you've never met?

[Cb3657]

I am a gen x person, I really don't understand the obsession folks have about having friends of the opposite sex, its like the thinking is "I'm such a good person i can have friends across the gender divide"

I would say the most important thing about boudaries are they are for you, they are not imposed, they are a voluntary thing you do to control your worst impulses. The old saying ethics are not something you do because someone is watching they are what you do because no one is watching.

Me and my wife are completely transparent, no secret passwords, no nothing, she is free to read anything I write here or anywhere, and that is the friendship I value most. Also I 100% do not think this is about gender, I would never ask a married or unmarried lady to go with me to a show. Especially if she did not know my wife, hell my wife would be very upset if she was not my first choice for something like this.

I know none of this will change any minds, the most stubborn issue I have come across is people believing they have all these great friends of the opposite sex, I don't even argue anymore, I just have NEVER seen it be true.

[Decorative]

Almost every BS on the Infidelity forum could have written those exact same words of confidence.

 

BTW, there are many straying husbands who attempt to throw the scent off themselves by claiming to be turned off by so and so. If I had a dollar for every WS I've read about who says, "I can't stand her" or "She grosses me out" . . . and was having an affair with said person.

 

He's not that sort? I hate to burst your bubble, but you have no idea what your husband does behind your back. Even the ones who don't appear to be "that sort" are serial cheaters.

 

Yup. My best friend, one of my other good friends and myself? We are all married to "not that sort". In all three sitches- if you knew the spouse that cheated? You would be shocked that they cheated.

[Cb3657]

Whoa, every one is a serial cheater, boy that is one jaundiced view of life you got going on. I am cynical about certain things, namely men and women friendships, this is mostly just from seeing how men talk about these friendships when said lady is not around, but calling everyone a serial cheater is just as poison to yourself as calling all women liars.

I think the OP got her opinions she can read them as she likes, let's not start another gender war here not every thread should rehash this battle.

[Decorative]

Whoa, every one is a serial cheater, boy that is one jaundiced view of life you got going on. I am cynical about certain things, namely men and women friendships, this is mostly just from seeing how men talk about these friendships when said lady is not around, but calling everyone a serial cheater is just as poison to yourself as calling all women liars.

I think the OP got her opinions she can read them as she likes, let's not start another gender war here not every thread should rehash this battle.

 

Nobody said everyone is a serial cheater.

 

None of the three men I mentioned above are.

 

Read the posts again- you'll see you missed what was said.

[Cb3657]

Have not read them all, sorry if I insulted. I started on the one that said even the ones who appear good are serial cheaters, I may not be a good one, but be dammed if I am a serial cheater. Again apologies

[AnotherRound]

Yeah, I can totally imagine it!

 

"Hey sweetie? Do you mind watching the kids tonight? Because I plan to get all dolled up, put on my little black dress, heels, hair, make up, etc....so I can go to the theater with a single guy from work. You don't mind, do you?"

 

I don't 'control' or 'force' my boyfriend to do anything. (And, for the record, I'm a GenXer too, so PLEASE quit blaming your poor judgement and boundaries on the year you were born.) I simply say, "Hey this is what I expect out of a relationship. You either agree or disagree. If you disagree, then you don't HAVE to be in a relationship with me. Which means you can date the single girl from work." Am *I* not allowed to be in the type of relationship *I* want?

 

If it makes me 'old fashioned' to be in a relationship where my man doesn't go out on dates with other women, I guess I'm just old freaking fashioned.

 

I appreciate you thinking that I have poor boundaries - but you're wrong. I have different boundaries than you, and yours might be considered a bit - rigid - controlling even. Okay - I will say it again. If both people in the relationship agree on the boundaries, it's fine. If one person is enforcing their boundaries on someone else - good luck with that, bc it's going to cause resentment. If you and your SO agree - I wasn't talking about YOU.

 

I'm not sure why you didn't understand that - I said it very clearly. Yes, you sound old fashioned if you don't want your SO to have friends that are female and sometimes go out with them. If your SO agrees to be old fashioned too, then knock yourselves out. (I don't think that works well, not having outside relationships that don't involve your SO, but whatever, to each his own).

[AnotherRound]

I am a gen x person, I really don't understand the obsession folks have about having friends of the opposite sex, its like the thinking is "I'm such a good person i can have friends across the gender divide"

I would say the most important thing about boudaries are they are for you, they are not imposed, they are a voluntary thing you do to control your worst impulses. The old saying ethics are not something you do because someone is watching they are what you do because no one is watching.

Me and my wife are completely transparent, no secret passwords, no nothing, she is free to read anything I write here or anywhere, and that is the friendship I value most. Also I 100% do not think this is about gender, I would never ask a married or unmarried lady to go with me to a show. Especially if she did not know my wife, hell my wife would be very upset if she was not my first choice for something like this.

I know none of this will change any minds, the most stubborn issue I have come across is people believing they have all these great friends of the opposite sex, I don't even argue anymore, I just have NEVER seen it be true.

 

I agree - if everyone agrees, it's not a problem. But, what if one person is expecting another person to follow THEIR own boundaries? Not allowing the other partner to define their own boundaries?

 

And let me ask you this - what if the event was something that your wife had absolutely zero interest in? Something that she HATED to attend, but you LOVED to attend? Would she still be "upset" if you went with someone else? Would it matter if it was a male or a female? And if so, why?

 

I don't have to have friends of the opposite sex - but I do, bc I like them. And I would not give them up for an intimate relationship - they have been there for me through thick and thin - they are like family to me. I wouldn't expect my SO to give up his friends either, female or male. Unless something weird happened on the part of a friend, as in, they were nasty to me or hitting on my SO - why would I?

 

As for not having any privacy - well, I don't think that's good either. We all need a little privacy in our lives. If my SO was snooping around, I would be offended. If they read my journals, I would be livid - they are personal. Now, if they asked me to see something, I would want to know why they want to see it. Not bc I have something to hide, but bc if they can't trust me to talk to them about anything I'm feeling or thinking or having an issue with - well then, the relationship is pretty much over imo. There is NO reason that I shouldn't be able to talk to my SO about anything, therefore no reason for them to have to read my emails, my journals, have my passwords, etc.

 

Boundaries. We all have them - we all have different ones, obviously. As long as both people agree, and one person isn't being forced to follow someone else's boundaries, all is well. When these don't match up, and someone feels like they have to deny themselves things that they want to do or friends that they want to have for a SO - resentment IS going to build.

[2sunny]

Nah, I'm perfectly aware of what a healthy boundary is - I literally just presented about them a few days ago! lol I said, if both people agree, and nobody is being forced, then it is healthy for both involved. However, some of the posts don't sound like it is a mutual agreement - but one person enforcing their own boundaries onto someone else.

 

Healthy does not involve control - exactly - therefore, attempting to control someone elses boundaries bc your boundaries are more rigid IS controlling, and therefore not healthy. If that isn't happening in any of the poster's relationships - it doesn't apply to you. I wasn't insinuating it did - as I thought I was clear about that by saying "to each his own" and "if all parties are in agreement" etc ad nauseam. So, if someone is taking it personally, I think maybe they are being triggered or something - bc I wasn't implying that anyone responding is doing that - I was simply pointing out what I know to be healthy and not healthy regarding boundaries and how that works in the context of a relationship.

 

And it's not healthy if someone may be harmed... Mainly his wife - that's why I stated to simply ask for her permission.

 

Then know where to draw the line between "friends" and intimate partner.

 

IF she doesn't intend to ask his wife - her motive isn't o just be friends. A true friend honors and respects their friends' marriages by never crossing the line of what's appropriate.

[2sunny]

Hi, I've read the forums for a little while but this is my first thread

 

I've had a bit of an odd situation earlier today and I'm not sure what to make of it. Two years ago I was on an evening course for work (all attendees work for the same company) and I met a man who I got along really well with. He's married with children so it was all platonic, we just clicked.

 

Anyway, after the course ended that was it. Then about 5 months ago - through work - I bumped into him again and he asked me to stay for a chat once I'd finished my business in the building. Turned out he was doing the job I want to apply for had wanted to find out more about, so he suggested I shadow him. Over the last 3 months I've seen him most weeks and we still get on really well and have become friends.

 

Fast forward to earlier and we were talking about theatre - a shared interest - and offered him a spare ticket to a play I'm going to next week. Another friend was coming with me, but then could no longer make it so told me to find someone else and not worry about the money for the ticket. I'd asked all friends who I thought might be interested but no one could make it, so I thought nothing of offering it to him...He said he'd love to go a few times, but as he's moving house next week and not started packing, it might be difficult but he'd let me know. That was fine.

 

Later I happened to mention it to two other work colleagues (who don't have anything to do with him) and their reaction has made me a bit paranoid. They essentially said that I'd asked him out and if he were their husband, he wouldn't be going. I explained that he goes for coffee on his lunch hour with female friends and his wife has no problem with it, so why would that be any different? Even my mother said it might be inappropriate. Ever since then I've felt a bit funny about it...he sent me an email this afternoon - a day after the invite - saying something about work, then thanking me for the invitation but it'd be tricky with the house 'as he said'.

 

Sorry, I've gone on a bit of a ramble, but ever since then I've felt like it's been made more of than I ever intended it to be and I thought I'd get some fresh eyes/opinions!

 

How do you KNOW his wife doesn't have a problem with him doing coffee/lunch with other women - have you asked his wife directly?

 

Don't make assumptions... Ask her!

[Cb3657]

AR

My wife does not like to ski, I was at one time a ski patrol. After we married we went skiing a few times my wife went but mostly stayed in the chalet and read books. Now I could have kept dragging her skiing or just found other people to go with but instead I found other things to do that we could both do.

Had I kept skiing I could envision a time when I had a choice to take a woman I knew from work and I sincerely hope I would not have, anyone can rationalize any behaviour but if you don't put yourself at risk, you are not at risk, by putting myself in a spot where cheating is possible I put myself at risk.

Not to say you cannot do things but they should be with other couples or with others of your gender or at least with someone where I know the husband and my wife knows the wife and we are ok. This is not the case here.

As for the privacy thing, you sound like a strong independent person, that is good, I feel I am strong also, I don't need to read anything my wife writes but it is important to me that I could without her trying to hide it. This goes for me also, she does not read this site but she could, I have kept nothing from her. If you value you independence and privacy more than anything else then independence and privacy is what you will get and likely not a long term pair bond.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Cb3657

[waterwoman]

To be honest if you had posted this a year or so ago I'd have said 'go for it! Nothing wrong with it at all' but since H started an affair with a coworker who got too close I would say it's a little inappropriate. I'ev become more cautious. Ask his wife to come along too perhaps.

[Cb3657]

Alice

I apologized to you already, but I will say this, I don't often read your posts and I reacted poorly to a end piece on one. I don't read them because I am not a fan of your style it seems too confrontational and one sided, it feels unbalanced to me, not like your crazy, just very sure your right without really listening.

I read posts when I believe people are thinking about a problem and trying to help using constructive communication. I understand why you communicate in your manner and I am not sure I would be much better in your shoes but it bothers me to read.

Still on me for reading a small piece and reacting won't do that again.

Sorry for the thread jack

[Eve]

Eve,

 

I re-read the OP and don't see where the "three potential people going out" is mentioned or inferred. I read the situation as two tickets. The other friend could not make it, hence asking the MM.

 

Your scenarios above involves your husband going out in a group, which is much more appropriate than what the OP is proposing.

 

Would you be okay with your husband going to the theater with a single 20-something woman that you've never met?

 

I went back over the posts and you are completely right! I thought one person had dropped out only. I was beginning to think you had all lost your minds from heartache or something.

 

No, my husband would not entertain going out as such without me. He wouldn't ask.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[Eve]

Almost every BS on the Infidelity forum could have written those exact same words of confidence.

 

BTW, there are many straying husbands who attempt to throw the scent off themselves by claiming to be turned off by so and so. If I had a dollar for every WS I've read about who says, "I can't stand her" or "She grosses me out" . . . and was having an affair with said person.

 

He's not that sort? I hate to burst your bubble, but you have no idea what your husband does behind your back. Even the ones who don't appear to be "that sort" are serial cheaters.

 

Nah.. looking long term there are people who never cheat for the whole of their lives. Not saying I am any better than anyone or anything but I would say that people who are cheaters are simply cheaters.

 

Hence, I don't bother with the infidelity and OW/OM forum.

 

Take care,

Eve x