How do parents raise kids like this....

[Fayebelle]

I saw this article and wondered how kids like this are raised. What would you do if these were your children?

 

Teens arrested in homeless man homicide

San Francesco police say three teenagers have admitted

beating a homeless man to death July 17 as he slept near

an abandoned factory. "Basically, they said they did this

because they were bored and they didn't have anything to

do," said Sgt. Bruce Brock of the homicide squad. "It

ended up that their fun was harassing this homeless guy,

and things just escalated." The San Francisco Chronicle

reported Tuesday the unidentified teenagers -- two 16 year

olds and a 15 year old - are in custody and are expected

to be charged with murder. "They were going to shoot some

windows out of an old factory," Brock alleged. "Then they

were going to shoot some cans. They came upon this homeless

man, and they decided to harass him. They started hitting

him, kicking him, and then he was shot with a BB gun."

 

 

 

This is SUCH a heinous violent crime against Such a defenseless victim- Do you think they were all on drugs, mental disturbed, or just raised wrong? What does it take to transform infants into monsters?

[Wellnowuknow]

They had to be on drugs or something I'm praying because it would be so sad to believe that someone sober could do such a heartless crime.

 

They will get whats coming to them and I do believe its the parents fault for not knowing where their kids were and what they were doing.

 

That story really had me upset now lol but i'll be ok the homeless guy is in a better place if anything they did him a favor but still he didnt have to go like that.........

[Fayebelle]

Do you think there should be a punishment for parents when their children commit violent crimes?

[Wellnowuknow]

No I don't believe the parent should be punished.

The parent will be punished regardless watching their children go to jail and being charged with murder and having to life with the questions

 

Why? and

What could I have done to prevent it? and

Am I a bad parent?

 

They also have to deal with how the whole world will look at them now.

 

I don't believe they should be punished by the law however because it was not their hnds that struck the homeless man nor their fingers that pulled the trigger of the BB gun.

[YellowLioness]

That's just evil. They killed a man because they were bored. I hope that they get tried as adults, but since they are so young, I'm not sure if that will happen. Whether their age is technically too young, they are old enough to know what they did.

[moimeme]

I don't think anyone is teaching kids empathy. I think empathy is going out of style. If adults don't have the capacity for empathy and are all about "I, me, mine" then you can hardly expect the kids to be better. And, from what I read on this board even, people aren't really concerned about whether they are sufficiently empathic to others at all. So expect this to only get worse as virtues such as empathy are considered too 'moralist' for people to subscribe to and as people continue to assert their 'right' to have what they want when they want it (which, by the way, is not a genuine right).

[Fayebelle]

Originally posted by Wellnowuknow

Why? and

What could I have done to prevent it? and

Am I a bad parent?

 

 

 

I agree w/ Moi- it seems to me that a responsible parent would have been asking themselves these ?'s all along and taken measures to avoid this situation before a crime occured. I'll even lay $ that the parents are more concerned about how this is going to effect them more than their kids. Why me? What will people say about me? How much is this going to cost me? What am I going to do if they take my child from me?

[Olivia_19742004]

Children aren't raised anymore. Many parents are too busy having their own lives to spend time raising their children. Parents think it's the responsibility of the schools to raise a child and schools think it's the responsibility of the parents to raise a child. However, what is happening is our youth is growing up learning how to behave in society by emulating what they see on TV, in movies, and in video games.

[Wellnowuknow]

It's so scary how the world is today.

 

The children don't care about anything only having sex drinking and partying.

 

8 years old are having sex!!! They cannot possibly understand what they are doing or the risks they are taking. Kids are stabbing kids in bathrooms and writing hit lists. Somethings not right!

You know I always heard my grandfather saying "what a wasted youth."

I always thought he doesnt understand what is he talking about. Well now I understand and I sound just like him.

I'm really scared for the future of my future children.

I know I will try my hardest to raise them right and instill all my good morals into them and try to teach them to have a heart and compassion for others.

I just pray they will listen.

[YellowLioness]

You know, our parents' parents thought the same things about their generation. My parents say the same thing about my generation.

 

I think that the portrayal of violence, whether it comes from the 11:00 News, their favorite rap group, cartoons, or T.V. show, has impacted the youth of our time. It seems that children now do not flinch at the things that used to send me screaming into my parents bedroom at night with bad dreams.

 

Because of the increasing level of violence being used to propagate popularity on these mediums, children are being conditioned to be cold and violent . After all, when you listen to rap songs about killing someone who angered you, why would you even bat an eye at killing a homeless man? This is not only true for hip hop, it is also true for the sports industry, the radio industry, T.V., Video games, Movies, music... you name it. Everything is about sex and violent death.

 

Just look at "Nip and Tuck." It's a hit show, but look how violent, sexual, and remorseless it is.

 

It is partially the parents fault, I'm sure. It's important to teach your kids to be kind and respectful. It's good to make them learn that respecting life is one of the best lessons they'll learn. However, parents can't protect their kids from everything.

 

In most households, parents have to BOTH work in order to give their kids the "life they never had." American values are changing. Parents aren't HOME to raise their children anymore.

[Wellnowuknow]

Your absolutely right.

What happened to fiday game night?

Every friday at my house when I was younger no matter what we had game night with my family where we went and bought a game and played a new game. It brought us closer.

And what happened to eating at the table with your family with the TV off!

Now a days they eat at the couch, watching TV, or in their rooms?

 

Life is so different now.

I see parents so different now. It's like they look at children as another job. Or as an obligation instead of their children.

They aren't home to raise the kids and so the kids learn about life through the internet, TV, or songs.

And the parents arent there to explain what they are listening to or watching.

 

Also parents now a days are very young. Babies having babies.

Not giving the children the attention and nurturing that they need.

I know a kid who's mother gets home from work (strippping) cooks him a TV dinner sits him in front of the tv and then goes a downs a bottle of tequila and locks herself in the room with her boyfriend.

It's sad.

[Fayebelle]

It's also important to teach the difference between reality and fantasy. We had violent cartoon (i.e. He Man and She Ra) But I was taught that cartoons are pretend and can't be hurt like real people can. Therefore I never tried to impale anyone w/ a sword. On the news they can at least see how bad guys are the ones who hurt people and there is a consequence. I think kids should watch the news W/ their parents b/c it can be a learning experience in more ways than one. Empathy can be learned at a young age - so by the time they are teenagers- realizing that songs and shows are entertainment not reality should come naturally. Children have no place listening to music or watching shows like that. I think an attetentive parent should be monitering this not the public. Those shows come on late at night for a reason- Children should be in bed by then.

[Samson]

I don't think anyone is teaching kids empathy.

 

Moimeme, what you meant, I think, was to say many Parents are not teaching empathy. The fact is, I (as you but not all know) teach empathy, and other social skill lessons as part of our required regular cirriculum (KEYSS).

 

Which is ample evidence to support Olivia's opinion that Parents do not teach empathy, self respect, respect for others and their property, citizenship, and a host of other basic social skills. School systems have only recently begun to "blame parents" (to use the popular, negative filled anti-Cosbyesque venacular). Actually the great effort is to involve parents in any way: Why is this?

 

Because like so many things, this is something that is difficult to do, (does anyone have any suggestions about how to teach empathy?) and when difficulty arises our modern reaction is to look to the state (government) for answers.

 

What did we do before the state decided that it must get into the empathy teaching business. Frankly, I don't think the decline in empathy is as serious as everyone believes it is. There has always been a certain number of sociopathic misanthropes and there always will be but now there activity is much more visible.

 

The state knows this, but has used the greater visability of this social problem to grow itself (the main focus of any government).

[moimeme]

It seems that children now do not flinch at the things that used to send me screaming into my parents bedroom at night with bad dreams.

 

Because of the increasing level of violence being used to propagate popularity on these mediums, children are being conditioned to be cold and violent . After all, when you listen to rap songs about killing someone who angered you, why would you even bat an eye at killing a homeless man? This is not only true for hip hop, it is also true for the sports industry, the radio industry, T.V., Video games, Movies, music... you name it. Everything is about sex and violent death.

 

Exactly. I still cannot watch any film where there's blood, gore, or violence. My folks would not let me watch horror movies or that sort of stuff and, as a result, I did not become inured to it. It still bothers me *very* much. That kids play games involving killing people (video) is just sick, sick, sick. I'd prefer that they watch porn 24/7 than all this violence.

[HokeyReligions]

As a parent of teenagers: It is impossible to know where they are and what they are doing all the time, unless you keep them locked up.

 

As a teenager: They want their independence and freedom and to not be watched constantly.

 

 

The blame goes to those who committed the crime. No one knows what kind of parenting the kids had---their parents may be terrific. They may have taught them right from wrong and had no idea that their children had within them the capability to commit such an atrocity. It happens all the time. It is not always the parents fault. No one thing triggerd or caused them to do this---their individual environments contributed to the people they became.

 

How many 15 & 16 year olds do you know who don't want to be treated like adults? Have adult pleasures? Adult toys? Adult freedoms?

 

Parents do the best they can to teach their children their morals and responsibility and the difference between right and wrong. Sometimes the kids don't get it. People, especially children, will do things in a group that they would never do alone. We can't keep our kids from having friends. We have to trust to hope that we have taught them properly and that we reached them. Sometimes we don't. Especially with teenagers!

[moimeme]

Not all parents have the morals to teach - or care to.

[YellowLioness]

I think that Faye made a good point by saying that there is a problem in the younger generations of kids not knowing what's real and what's not.

 

Our special effects have become so realistic that sometimes its hard to tell the difference. LOTRs, for example.

 

And, if parents aren't around to guide children, who will? Samson was right in saying that the school is put in a parenting position.

 

Otherwise, why would we be taught Sex Education, Home Ec, Parenting, or KEYSS?

 

Back in the day, issues such as these stayed in the family. I remember my grandmother getting VERY offended that I was being taught about sex in a class room with boys around.

 

Do I think the parents should be blamed? No, I don't. It wasn't the parents who beat the man to death. The 16 and 15 year olds did the deed, and THEY have to be punished for it.

 

If they were not taught morals by their parents, then the State of California will have to take over as disciplanarian.

 

I think it's a very sad state of affairs. I think that Americans are way too focused on making that almighty dollar to acquire the picket fence around their perfect houses.

 

That's not even close to what's important, IMHO.

 

I mean really, what's worth while? Working over time to afford that new cell phone, or coming home to spend time with your children, bonding with them, and teaching the new generation what reality is, and how to love and forgive eachother.

[YellowLioness]

How would you propose to teach empathy?

 

How can you teach some one to feel something?

 

By being empathetic yourself, as a parent or a teacher. Children learn well by example.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by moimeme

Not all parents have the morals to teach - or care to.

 

True, and everyone's morals are different. But automatically blaming the parents and jumping to conclusions about the parents thought processes right now is silly. Someone said that the parents are paying for the crimes now is spot-on correct. As a parent we hold ourselves responsible for our children all the time and we wonder what we could have done, why we didn't see a behavior, where we failed. We think about that stuff every time our kids are hurt, or hurt others.

 

I can't imagine any parent sitting around wondering if their kid will grow up to murder someone! That thought usually doesn't enter a parents mind. They teach that killing is wrong and they teach why its wrong (whether its a moral/religous thing, or just because its the law) and that is also taught in schools today. Killing is wrong. Parents don't plot out "how can I prevent junior from murdering someone?" because most parents (good, bad, or indifferent) never would believe that their child is capable of that. It's a natural human trait to think that something really bad won't happen to our family. That tornado won't hit MY house kind of thinking.

 

I think that if we didn't have that feeling or faith in events or karma or whatever you want to call it, we would spend all of our time in a constant state of anxiety and worry and be miserable human beings.

[YellowLioness]

I would like to clarify before I post what I was going to post:

If children are falling through the cracks, who is going to catch them if their parents don't?

 

Who is supposed to dicipline them and teach them right from wrong?

[Kizzyfur]

Hmm.. this is kinda the point I was trying to make on another thread...

 

.. and yet we continue to overlook the signs when there is still time to get the children back on the right path.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by YellowLioness

Who is supposed to dicipline them and teach them right from wrong?

 

What do you mean "supposed" ? Are you talking social laws? Religion? The village it takes to raise a child? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just wondering because there are no laws that govern what parents are responsible for. If a parent doesn't potty train their kid, is that a crime? (visualizing John Kerry at the podium making a face as he dumps in his diaper! ) There are no checks and balances or laws on this.

 

I think, and this is my opinion and view, that there is a joint responsibility and that too many liberal laws are in place which prevent schools and communities from doing what it takes to raise good kids. I'm not talking liberal in a political sense.

 

An example. My friend teaches 8th grade history. If he tells his class to set their pencils down and one kid refuses, the teacher can't do anything. He can't physically take the pencil away from the student because the student (or his/her parents) can come after the teacher for intimidation and abuse. He can't send the student to the principle's office because the student could leave campus instead and if something happens to the student, the teacher is held responsible. He can't have the student stay after class because he can't allow the student to be late for the next class, a bus, or anything else. Teachers can't even fail students the way they used to do because of the laws governing passing students on to the next level.

 

If we return some authority to the teachers and back them up with laws that protect them and support their disciplinarian measures, then we might get somewhere. If I were teaching and told students to put their pencils down and one refused, I want the authority to physically remove the pencil, paddle the kid, keep the kid after class and force them to read Goofus and Gallant stories, or any one of a dozen other disciplines that I would have had thrust upon me when I was in school. Including a note home to the parents and a parent-teacher meeting. And all of this knowing that I would not be in any way punished even if the parents complained.

 

It used to be that if a kid was misbehaving and a neighbor saw it, the neighbor could spank or detain the kid until the parents got home---because the morality was pretty much the same in the community. There were no confusing laws about what constitutes child abuse or fears of law-suits. I was paddled by a neighbor, and my mom paddled other kids. No big deal. But today---if I touched a child I could be sued.

 

It's all part of the evolution of our society. I think it will get worse before it gets better. It won't always be like this though.

[YellowLioness]

I see what you're saying.

 

It's not just one factor that is causing the problem; it's like a wide spread disease.

 

My mother teaches elementary school, and one of their slogans used to be, "It takes a whole village to raise a child."

[Samson]

If I were teaching and told students to put their pencils down and one refused, I want the authority to physically remove the pencil, paddle the kid, keep the kid after class and force them to read Goofus and Gallant stories, or any one of a dozen other disciplines that I would have had thrust upon me when I was in school.

 

Oh, Hokey, Hokey, Hokey...............I'm not sure what's more amusing: Your picture of yourself as a teacher or John Kerry going Boom-boom in his Depends whilst accepting a presidential nomination!

 

First of all, a 14 year old kid that refuses to put a pencil DOWN is probably the least offensive of behaviors we can run into, possibly only worth a little discussion themed "Defiance: Why it is WORSE for YOU than it is for ME!" And then, if necessary, a phone call home should do the trick. If not they are on their way to being on the first rung of the "discipline ladder;" detentions afterschool, suspension in school, suspension out of school (most inconvienient for parents) and finally an alternative campus (parents hate having to drive their kids to school). This process takes about 3 months or less, depending on how cooperative the kid is, or more accurately, how many times the kid's been through it (saavy kids know how to walk the line almost indefinitely).