Affairs and Narcissism?

[Spark1111]

I just googled that phrase and tons of sites came up.

 

Even if your spouse was not narcissistic before the affair, one article said many people in affairs will exhibit narcissistic behavior during the affair.

 

I know my fWS did.

 

Another article said how anger at unspoken unmet needs fuels the affair.

 

They just need to notice the new supply of attention and flattery and off they go. Harmless flirting is not harmless....they are trying to find a willing recipient; someone vulnerable to their advances.

 

One article went on to state that many APs are made vulnerable by early childhood abuse.

 

So, during the affair (and maybe before and after it) did your spouse exhibit signs of narcissism and all about me-ism?

 

That they deserved to be happy, despite the pain they were causing you, and often, their AP?

 

In retrospect, I didn't recognize my H during the affair.

 

Did you? Out of character is putting a shine on it. Grandiosity, devaluing, spending money I did not know we had....is just a few items off the top of my head.

 

Thoughts?

[mammasita]

I dated a narcissist.

 

His famous words were "Is it wrong to want to be loved?"

 

Well, yes....yes it is if you want to be loved by EVERY woman in the universe.

[Artie Lang]

it seems to me, MM/OM are more prone to displaying narcissistic tendencies.

[StormySeas]

I don't think narcism effectively describes my H during his affair. Selfish? Yes. But a narcissist? No. The differences between the two are subtle, but I don't think my H was more in love with himself during that period (ie a narcissist) than he was just acting on selfish impulses (making decisions based on his wants versus thinking about the impact on anyone else).

[96nole]

I just googled that phrase and tons of sites came up.

 

Even if your spouse was not narcissistic before the affair, one article said many people in affairs will exhibit narcissistic behavior during the affair.

 

I know my fWS did.

 

Another article said how anger at unspoken unmet needs fuels the affair.

 

They just need to notice the new supply of attention and flattery and off they go. Harmless flirting is not harmless....they are trying to find a willing recipient; someone vulnerable to their advances.

 

One article went on to state that many APs are made vulnerable by early childhood abuse.

 

So, during the affair (and maybe before and after it) did your spouse exhibit signs of narcissism and all about me-ism?

 

That they deserved to be happy, despite the pain they were causing you, and often, their AP?

 

In retrospect, I didn't recognize my H during the affair.

 

Did you? Out of character is putting a shine on it. Grandiosity, devaluing, spending money I did not know we had....is just a few items off the top of my head.

 

Thoughts?

 

Oh dear God yes! Here are some quotes from her:

 

as I was throwing her out the first time: "I only want what's best for me"

 

during a conversation after I threw her out the second time: "You didn't make me feel special every day. You didn't make me feel like queen every day, you didn't make me feel like I was on a pedestal everyday!"

 

another conversation after the second time I threw her out:

Her: "What did you do to make my life easier?"

Me: "You mean other than make most of the dinners, do all the laundry, do most of the cleaning around the house, and help you study for your teaching certificates?" (she didn't get any of the math or logic questions. I should also throw in that I was also maintaining my own full time job and was studying for my own computer certifications)

Her: "OK fine, but then why didn't you ask me if there was anything else you could do to make my life easier?"

[Minnie09]

I honestly think that it's all a childhood/low-self-esteem/unhappy-with-myself kind of issue. Call it narcissism or whatever personality disorder. It is the all about me me me idea that they all share. They're like toddlers, emotionally weak and insecure, stuck in an adult's body. It's not pretty. They are self-centered like preschoolers. I truly do not believe a cheater can change. They thrive on secrecy. The double life is actually the fun-part, almost more fun than hanging out/banging the OM/OW. Let them have the double life officially, make it their ONLY life, and guess what - it's no longer FUN!

 

So no....not necessarily narcissists, but sure stuck in early childhood development, and not curable. If there's no other occasion after dday, sure, they're "faithful", but hey, given the opportunity, they'll so jump at it. There will be exceptions, as everywhere and always, of course, but I'm just giving my opinion on the "common" cheater/liar/hider/deceiver. They all play house with their spouse. Catch me if you can. Discipline me, if you can. Oh yes, and the PA-behavior (as mentioned above) is big in those guys.

[HisGraceisSufficient]

Affairs are all about pride, self centeredness and ego. Its about MY needs, MY wants, MY rights.

 

There is little respect for others/themselves, boundaries, oaths, obligations, commitments.

 

Selfishness and pride stirs people to take unnecessary risks and perceive a wrong as justifiable.

[Charlie Harper]

Blame all you want about narcissism or early child abuse or the tooth fairy convinced me to have a fling with...... Bottom line is that some people should not marry, others marry the wrong person and last a lot of spouses took everything for granted...so in a few years anything look better than what you have = recipe for disaster.

[threebyfate]

Blame all you want about narcissism or early child abuse or the tooth fairy convinced me to have a fling with...... Bottom line is that some people should not marry, others marry the wrong person and last a lot of spouses took everything for granted...so in a few years anything look better than what you have = recipe for disaster.

The ex-husband who cheated was also clinically diagnosed with NPD. Coincidentally, of course. It's most likely something I did to force him to cheat.

[Spark1111]

I really don't mean to threadjack but along with narcissism there often seems to be a passive aggressive element, agreed?

 

Actually I would think passive aggressive is more an issue that narcissism in most affairs.

 

Well, in some of the articles it would read ......"narcissistic/emotionally immature."

 

Passive aggression is also conflict avoidant: another trait of many a cheater.

 

Because they avoid conflict, they often do NOT express which needs of their's you are failing to meet.....but grow very angry about it anyway.

 

Lose lose for the spouse.

[Spark1111]

it seems to me, MM/OM are more prone to displaying narcissistic tendencies.

 

That may be as they too often adopt the "I deserve to be happy at the expense of all others.

 

Yet, someone HAS to provide the endless amount of attention a narcissist needs......

 

Hard to imagine two narcissists would last too long. They would be exhausting each other in tht regard.

[Steen719]

My XH definitely has narcissistic personality traits, specifically the following:

 

• He always blamed me for anything that went wrong, way before the 2 affairs and the divorce and when I think about it and I am honest, he always did and I looked the other way, only raising an objection when it was either ridiculous or I just could not take it anymore.
  
• He exaggerated his accomplishments and a lot of other things, to include lying to people about where he had traveled to, etc.
  
• Pretended to be much more important than he was.
  
• Basically, denies responsibility for anything and even if he says he should not have done what he did, does not show much remorse.
  
• He is arrogant and feels entitled.
  

He did have what I think is empathy for people and he has some other non-narcissistic qualities, and I don't think he is totally narcissistic, but he certainly trends that way. He told me, after I discovered his last months of stupidity, that he had just lost the "spark" for me. I assured him that I still had the spark, even though I cleaned him up and cared for him while he was rotting waiting for a transplant. I mean, who wouldn't think that was sexy? LOL I would say that is pretty self-involved. Not sure if it was all narcissism, but it definitely smacked of it. I think it is immaturity, also, to not realize that love ebbs and flows in relationships and of course, you are going to have times that your partner doesn't adore you. And, as 96Nole said, I was just trying to do everything else and well, umm....it was hard to just work all of the time to keep us going.

 

Aye yie yie.....I don't know. I still scratch my head as he blames me for divorcing him even though he readily says he would have left me after the 1st time.

[Spark1111]

Oh dear God yes! Here are some quotes from her:

 

as I was throwing her out the first time: "I only want what's best for me"

 

during a conversation after I threw her out the second time: "You didn't make me feel special every day. You didn't make me feel like queen every day, you didn't make me feel like I was on a pedestal everyday!"

 

another conversation after the second time I threw her out:

Her: "What did you do to make my life easier?"

Me: "You mean other than make most of the dinners, do all the laundry, do most of the cleaning around the house, and help you study for your teaching certificates?" (she didn't get any of the math or logic questions. I should also throw in that I was also maintaining my own full time job and was studying for my own computer certifications)

Her: "OK fine, but then why didn't you ask me if there was anything else you could do to make my life easier?"

 

Ha! It would be interesting to find out if her OM was a very vulnerable guy who lavished her with attention (not necessarily acts of service) because he didn't know how to have boundaries himself!

 

True narcissists BURN through relationships as they need an inexhausitble amount of adoration.

 

They are often quite successful career-wise, but socially? No, not at all.

 

They CANNOT take criticism of any kind, feel personally threatened, and can rage at others when you perceive them as less than perfect.

[Spark1111]

My XH definitely has narcissistic personality traits, specifically the following:

 

• He always blamed me for anything that went wrong, way before the 2 affairs and the divorce and when I think about it and I am honest, he always did and I looked the other way, only raising an objection when it was either ridiculous or I just could not take it anymore.
  
• He exaggerated his accomplishments and a lot of other things, to include lying to people about where he had traveled to, etc.
  
• Pretended to be much more important than he was.
  
• Basically, denies responsibility for anything and even if he says he should not have done what he did, does not show much remorse.
  
• He is arrogant and feels entitled.
  

He did have what I think is empathy for people and he has some other non-narcissistic qualities, and I don't think he is totally narcissistic, but he certainly trends that way. He told me, after I discovered his last months of stupidity, that he had just lost the "spark" for me. I assured him that I still had the spark, even though I cleaned him up and cared for him while he was rotting waiting for a transplant. I mean, who wouldn't think that was sexy? LOL I would say that is pretty self-involved. Not sure if it was all narcissism, but it definitely smacked of it. I think it is immaturity, also, to not realize that love ebbs and flows in relationships and of course, you are going to have times that your partner doesn't adore you. And, as 96Nole said, I was just trying to do everything else and well, umm....it was hard to just work all of the time to keep us going.

 

Aye yie yie.....I don't know. I still scratch my head as he blames me for divorcing him even though he readily says he would have left me after the 1st time.

 

Go figure!

 

I'd be scratching my head too!

 

Steen, they do tend to charm and marry very kind, self-sacrificing spouses if they do marry.

 

Few are faithful.

 

And yes, they always blame others because they could never blame themselves.

 

It is ALWAYS someone else's fault.

[Spark1111]

Blame all you want about narcissism or early child abuse or the tooth fairy convinced me to have a fling with...... Bottom line is that some people should not marry, others marry the wrong person and last a lot of spouses took everything for granted...so in a few years anything look better than what you have = recipe for disaster.

 

One article did say that it would be more likely for a spouse to stray IF they had an emotionally unstable and quarrelsome spouse.

 

This was unrelated to narcissism.

 

This was a study of scientists trying to decipher who would be married and divorced 8 years later after having been surveyed during the first year of marriage.

 

Those identified with narcissitic traits, yes, their infidelity and divorce rate jumped.

 

Emotionally unstable and bickering picky? yes, their spouse was more prone to an affair.

 

No! Not everyone should marry and I think all should have some sort of training, as we are starting to do with parents.

[Steen719]

Oh, and when it didn't work out between him and the woman he was trying to marry (while we were married and she was married - just a small impediment, I guess), he immediately went on to another woman. He tried to get me to stay (not very convincing or contrite) and when I said no, he got on facebook, started talking to an old friend and immediately started seeing her. He is now, for all intents and purposes, living in her home 4 hours away, coming home only to mow the grass of the house he refused to let me stay in and make the payment while we sold it.

[Steen719]

Go figure!

 

I'd be scratching my head too!

 

Steen, they do tend to charm and marry very kind, self-sacrificing spouses if they do marry.

 

Few are faithful.

 

And yes, they always blame others because they could never blame themselves.

 

It is ALWAYS someone else's fault.

 

Yep, his latest thing is to blame me for our 22 year old son not talking to him much. He said I had succeeded in taking him away, too. I don't know what the too was referring to, but I assured him that I never have said anything to my son like don't call your dad, don't feel a certain way and in fact, we talk very little about his dad. He is old enough to decide. I did check with my son to make sure he didn't think I was in any way trying to get him to not see his dad or talk to him - that it was not a betrayal to me and he assured me that his feelings about his dad were totally his, not mine.

 

Another example of how XH blames me. I just texted him after this and said to grow up and take responsibility for what he did. Good grief, I mean, really. I am sick of being blamed for everything. Thankfully, I don't talk to him and ignore phone calls, only answering texts or emails when I have to.

[Snowflower]

 

Another example of how XH blames me. I just texted him after this and said to grow up and take responsibility for what he did. Good grief, I mean, really. I am sick of being blamed for everything. Thankfully, I don't talk to him and ignore phone calls, only answering texts or emails when I have to.

 

I think this type of behavior/attitude is so common from former cheating - turned - ex spouses, once the divorce is long over and they now have their coveted freedom. I've run across it a lot lately with a few of my friends IRL...their ex-husbands are now miserable as single men. Not that these men are trying to get back together with their exes or anything but they are just p*ssed at the world. They blame everyone else for their unhappiness and dumping their marriage-after cheating of course-didn't help them.

 

Sounds like your XH is one of these.

[Steen719]

I think this type of behavior/attitude is so common from former cheating - turned - ex spouses, once the divorce is long over and they now have their coveted freedom. I've run across it a lot lately with a few of my friends IRL...their ex-husbands are now miserable as single men. Not that these men are trying to get back together with their exes or anything but they are just p*ssed at the world. They blame everyone else for their unhappiness and dumping their marriage-after cheating of course-didn't help them.

 

Sounds like your XH is one of these.

 

But he has a girlfriend is living with her! Shouldn't he be happy?

 

However, I can see what you mean. I feel that he has lost a lot - home, long-term marriage with a faithful partner who loved him and took care of him in his worst times, a son who respected him and a life he knew and was fairly comfortable. Surely, on some level, he feels the same. And, another way you are right is that he is generally a p*ssed off person; always making mountains out of molehills - unlike me who tends to minimize to smooth it out. A flat tire for me was an irritation, but I have triple A so I call them. For him, he would cuss and fuss and eventually call triple A.

[beenburned]

Although my H was definitely immature in his actions and thoughts in the early years of our marriage, he has always been definitely passive-aggressive.

 

I think he was never allowed his own opinions when growing up, especially when he disagreed with someone in his FOO. Therefore he felt a lot of hidden rage that he could not express. He started acting out badly as a teenager.

 

He will not express what he wants to other people, even when asked directly.

 

For example, when we eat out with other people, they will ask where we want to go or what we are hungry for dinner. He always says it doesn't matter to him. Then all the way home in the car, he complains about either the restaurant or the food.

 

I'm almost certain his affairs were some hidden revenge thing to get back at me because I can't be a mind reader of his thoughts and wishes.

 

After years of living with this, I have learned to turn things around on him.(evil grin)

 

I make him pick the restaurant, the movie, where we go on vacation, etc, then if he is unhappy he knows he made the choice!

 

Thank goodness he is mellowing in his old age!

[Snowflower]

But he has a girlfriend is living with her! Shouldn't he be happy?

 

 

No, he is likely not happy because he isn't happy with himself. Sure, the new girlfriend was a temporary fix but he is still unhappy with himself (of course, I'm just guessing here). He may or may not realize that he is the root of all his own problems.

 

Unfortunately, like so many other selfish people in the world, he had to hurt you and your son in his quest to find the happiness which it doesn't appear-from what you write-he has been able to find. (bad grammar but I can't think how to fix it at the moment )

 

Some people are just perpetually unhappy deep within themselves and I think that was what Spark was getting at it in this thread.

[Steen719]

No, he is likely not happy because he isn't happy with himself. Sure, the new girlfriend was a temporary fix but he is still unhappy with himself (of course, I'm just guessing here). He may or may not realize that he is the root of all his own problems.

 

Unfortunately, like so many other selfish people in the world, he had to hurt you and your son in his quest to find the happiness which it doesn't appear-from what you write-he has been able to find. (bad grammar but I can't think how to fix it at the moment )

 

Some people are just perpetually unhappy deep within themselves and I think that was what Spark was getting at it in this thread.

 

I suspect you are right. While I would be lying if I said I wouldn't care if he ever realizes he is responsible for his own bad choices (just as I am), I mostly attempt every single day to leave that to his future, not mine. Some days I am more successful than others, but my trend is that way. Thank you -

[Steen719]

Mr. Messy is also clinically diagnosed. Plus I took his penis off the leash and thought it would remain in his own yard to play. It did not so he no longer is allowed in my yard. He can doody somewhere else. :rolleyes:

 

LOL:lmao::lmao:

 

Good topic, Spark!

[Spark1111]

Although my H was definitely immature in his actions and thoughts in the early years of our marriage, he has always been definitely passive-aggressive.

 

I think he was never allowed his own opinions when growing up, especially when he disagreed with someone in his FOO. Therefore he felt a lot of hidden rage that he could not express. He started acting out badly as a teenager.

 

He will not express what he wants to other people, even when asked directly.

 

For example, when we eat out with other people, they will ask where we want to go or what we are hungry for dinner. He always says it doesn't matter to him. Then all the way home in the car, he complains about either the restaurant or the food.

 

I'm almost certain his affairs were some hidden revenge thing to get back at me because I can't be a mind reader of his thoughts and wishes.

 

After years of living with this, I have learned to turn things around on him.(evil grin)

 

I make him pick the restaurant, the movie, where we go on vacation, etc, then if he is unhappy he knows he made the choice!

 

Thank goodness he is mellowing in his old age!

 

No! His hidden affairs were not a revenge thing to get back at you.....though you were the target his issues were projected upon.

 

His issues were with his parent(s) who never allowed him to successfully communicate negative emotions....THAT is where passive aggression originates.....and you became the adult target they were projected upon!

 

I had a friend, a child psychologist, who told me of course a child, when angry, will scream out "I hate you!" We have total control over their world. He said it was completely normal. But they should never scream out FU! I hate you! Why? Because that was disrespectful.

 

One of the greatest gifts you can give a child is to help them identify negative emotions.....and to listen with understanding, so that one day they can express negative emotions and NOT AVOID THEM!

 

In my house as a child? Rarely happened. In my fWS? NEVER happened.

 

Passive-aggression stems from having you negative emotions suppressed by a bossy, authoritarian parent.

 

Spouses live with the residual lifelong bs of this.

[Spark1111]

But he has a girlfriend is living with her! Shouldn't he be happy?

 

However, I can see what you mean. I feel that he has lost a lot - home, long-term marriage with a faithful partner who loved him and took care of him in his worst times, a son who respected him and a life he knew and was fairly comfortable. Surely, on some level, he feels the same. And, another way you are right is that he is generally a p*ssed off person; always making mountains out of molehills - unlike me who tends to minimize to smooth it out. A flat tire for me was an irritation, but I have triple A so I call them. For him, he would cuss and fuss and eventually call triple A.

 

No, he will blame you for his unhappiness. Then, he will grow disenchanted with the girlfriend within three years.....unless she is a total doormat who continues to...a) agree with his anger no matter what, b) agree he was totally victimized by you and life circumstances and c) never render an independent opinion or emotion that could be contrary to his victim mentality.

 

I suggest calling her up! Let her know you are a sweet, devoted woman who is not ATTILLA the HUN. Plant a seed of doubt her head that you are not the DEVIL INCARNATE.

 

But that's me....

 

Devaluing a past partner while elevating the new partner is not only a characteristic of affairs.....it is a characteristic of narcissism.