Why men are opting out of marriage

[Janesays]

Men who "opt out" of marriage remind me a little of the cricket who rested and played all summer while the ant built his abode.

 

We all get old eventually. I'll be glad to have someone to share the winter with. Risky? Yes, for both partners. But worth it? God yes, for all concerned.

 

Very good point. Where is a man going to be at 70 with no wife and no children/family? Probably rotting in a home for the last 20-30 years of his life, alone.

 

Compare that to the elderly who were fortunate enough to raise and nurture my husband's very close nit family. They live at home, are cared for by their loving children and grandchildren, and have a place of honor and respect even in their golden years.

[Woggle]

With the divorce rate the way it is these days most men will end up alone anyway regardless of whether they marry at one point in their life or not.

[Shepp]

I can't even hope to write something better than Grumps has!!

 

All I can say is you don't get the best rewards without risk!! The guys who choose to live in bubble wrap and opt out of marriage.....rather them than me all day long!!

 

 

 

Men who "opt out" of marriage remind me a little of the cricket who rested and played all summer while the ant built his abode.

We all get old eventually. I'll be glad to have someone to share the winter with. Risky? Yes, for both partners. But worth it? God yes, for all concerned.

 

Couldn't agree more!!

When im old I want my wife right beside me, and I want family all around me, even all lifes little dramas that go with that, I want grandkids to spoil, maybe great grandkids if im lucky!

I want a life!! I don't want to end up some 70yr old man with nothing, no one and no reason to get out of bed in the morning!!

[nescafe1982]

All I can say is you don't get the best rewards without risk!!

...

I want a life!! I don't want to end up some 70yr old man with nothing, no one and no reason to get out of bed in the morning!!

 

Right, I agree. Now, I'm not saying EVERY man should marry... nor that a man who doesn't want or value a marriage/family should consider marriage. If a man values his career, his independence, or other things to be gained solo, those are good reasons to avoid marriage.

 

But to avoid getting married out of fear of a divorce? That's not wise. Fear is never a good reason to avoid living life, IMO.

[Anela]

Men need to approach marriage like buying a house. It is a major investment that can be a great thing but can ruin you if you choose wrongly. Really get to know a woman before you marry her and make sure you get a prenup and have it looked at by a lawyer that knows what they are doing. Also try to avoid being pushed into a provider role.

 

The same can be said for anyone. What if I asked for a pre-nup before getting married? Would that make me a gold-digging wh0re? Some women don't want to date a man with children, let alone marry them - but that makes them insensitive and selfish, right?

 

I doubt I'll bother to say anything more. I've posted I don't know how many times in this sort of thread, as have many other good, honest, intelligent, loving women, and where does it get us? Any man like the OP can stay the hell away from me - I know that I'll be the happier for it.

[Treasa]

I definitely don't think Keith should marry me. I make more than he does by two figures, and if we were to marry and divorce, I'd have to pay him alimony (I assume), and then I'd lose the person who washes my dishes, takes out the garbage, starts the laundry, and cleans up after the bunnies!

 

Damn, that would suck.

[ChooseTruth]

That's right. Women are starting to realize this as well and feel as the OP does. Not every woman is 'chomping at the bit' to get married. For alot of women it's too much work involved being a wife and mom.

 

Marriage is a giant risk for both sexes. Both get taken advantage of.

 

My case: My exwife's career never "stopped" for me, she never started it. She got pregnant 4 years into the marriage and when my daughter was older for her to have time for work, she still didn't do it. She admitted that I did most of the laundry and dishes. I also was constantly picking up after her. The week she started her affair at a MA conference I remember being relieved she was gone because I didn't have to constantly pick up the crap she would leave everywhere. She's just now working again, because we are divorced and she has 2.5 more years before she needs to make her own living. She's free to F other men while I pay for the roof over her head. I guess that's better than me sharing the roof while she does it anyway. I hate thinking about telling future women I date about my alimony and the fact that my mother moved in to help pay the rent and take care of daughter while I work full time. Meanwhile my ex picked a third career to go to school for, the promising career of substitute teaching... Who's free here?

 

Do most women work? I don't know, but when I get a chance to go to the mall during the day it's amazing how many women I see walking around shopping, not at work. It's also amazing to me how many women divorce or cheat because they like the guy who makes more money than their husband...inspite of them saying the money doesn't matter.

 

Also there is a such thing as paternity leave and I know many guys who have done it. I also know guys who have "stopped" their career to be a full time father.

 

My father has continued to help my mother decade after their divorce. He doesn't have to but he does. Why? Because he knows that the easier he can make her life, the easier it makes his kid's lives. And that is why he has no qualms in helping to support her. I really appreciate it though we have all said he doesn't need to. But we appreciate that since he makes substantially more than her (years after the divorce) he continues to want to spread the wealth. The company I work for, the Owner was previously married and he had three of his kids with her. He and his wife have continued to support the ex wife because they have been successful and helping her helps their kids. My fiance pays his ex alimony and child support well above what the courts would mandate. He is also paying child support while the kids are in college and living at home. Why? Because it helps the kids. If his ex benefits as well, well that is good for her, but he knows it goes to the kids and makes their lifestyle better.

 

That is an awesome way to be.

Alimony and child support is to help the parent that is the main childcare provider. Alimony is to help the spouse that took a cut in pay, advancement, etc. to support the family and now needs time to try and get up to speed and try and make things parable again.

 

You do see who a person is during a divorce so yes I think both sides can get ugly. I do think prenups are good ideas. Things should be as reasonably struck down the middle as much as possible.

 

When I divorced I took nothing from my ex. I didn't want anything outside my few items. We had an amicable divorce. Actually one of the easiest divorces most have heard of. We didn't hate each other. Did want to hurt the other person, we were just politely dissolving us and moving on.

 

I agree with most of your post, but one part it turns out is not always true. I'm happy to pay expenses for my child. No problem.

 

In my case the alimony/child support is not about supporting the one who has primary care of the child. We have a 50/50 parenting plan. For us alimony/child support is about supporting the unfaithful woman who is selfish enough to take everything she can get because she was already supported for 14 years during our marriage. The longer you take, the more you are entitled to take for longer. Honestly I don't know what the solution is. I loved having her at home to take care of my daughter well beyond when most women would have gone back to work. I was proud that I made enough to enable that. No good deed goes unpunished If I got married again, I might expect her to work just so I wouldn't get screwed as bad if we were to divorce...

 

Interesting thing I heard on the radio this morning; they said that the percentage of deadbeat mothers is much higher than the percentage of deadbeat fathers (talking childsupport). Door doesn't swing both ways I guess.

 

How does marriage benefit men? Please explain this? And men who get married are not dumb - they are most certainly un/misinformed and possibly manipulated. Anyone who reads the divorce laws in their states - the most recent iterations of which can be found out in divorce court - would be foolish to sign such a contract.

 

This does not make these men bad - just guilty of a bad judgment call. A VERY bad judgment call.

 

If that were a business contract, the male signing it would be a sucker and would get taken for a fool. In business you lose money. In Marriage your children lose, you lose, your family loses, and society loses.

 

How can one possibly argue against this? This is a nearly unassailable unless you have no children or family.

 

I can speak from experience and much research here, but do not believe me. Keep getting married. Men who do this deserve everything they get. Experience is the best teacher. I just feel bad for all those kids.

 

How about we just leave it THERE - at reality. Fairytales are for little girls. The topic of Marriage is a grownup discussion not the best place for name-callers and political wingnuts.

 

 

Putting my obvious anger aside, I will turn around and defend marriage inspite of my horrible experience.

 

People keep talking about what marriage offers them or doesn't offer...the real point is family and children. Someone argued that marriage is bad for children...wwWWhattt?? As opposed to? I think the fact that having a healthy single household is good for children has been proven a thousand time over has it not? If you can preserve that, and glass half full, many people do! It's also about two extended families being united, grandparents, aunts uncles, etc. I not only grieve over my failed relationship with my ex, but I grief for all the relationships with her family that have been destroyed (parents, sister, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc) I do agree that splitting up is better than staying in an abusive relationship that damages the kids. This is why I'm now divorced. I don't need to be worrying about who the father of my next child is (another advantage women have, at least they know).

 

Also yes, having someone to grow old with would be nice and extends your lifespan. It sucks when another human being randomly tears down what you spent 18 years building up in the middle of your life. Now I'm caught in that leftover pool of people who either never had the courage to marry or couldn't make their marriage work.

Edited December 3, 2013 by ChooseTruth

[Shepp]

Right, I agree. Now, I'm not saying EVERY man should marry... nor that a man who doesn't want or value a marriage/family should consider marriage. If a man values his career, his independence, or other things to be gained solo, those are good reasons to avoid marriage.

 

But to avoid getting married out of fear of a divorce? That's not wise. Fear is never a good reason to avoid living life, IMO.

 

Of course not! Men who can't stay faithful or sticki it out when the going gets tough shouldn't bother or there just playing with someone else's life!

 

But I totally agree fear is not a good reason! You only live once and no one gets out alive anyway!!

[Iguanna]

I agree that it isn't smart for a woman to be a SAHM forever. Most women shout "FEMINISM IS ABOUT CHOICES!" in defense of SAHMs. What they are forgetting is that a woman with no income of her own has no choices.

If a SAHM has a husband who is abusive, all she has to depend on is social assistance and the kindness of family and friends. Both of those safety nets are precarious at best.

 

So the solution you suggest is that all women push themselves to work + take care of the household + take care of the kids + be good wives instead of getting to know the man they plan to have kids with and marry better before they do this? I suggest we should stay with a man long enough (at least one year) so we know if he has some really disturbing habits and if he has, we got to leave him. When you are 20 you can lose your time with a bad guy who makes you suffer, but it's only you and you can go at any time. But when you are considering having a kid then things change. Your priority should be to find a good father for your future to be baby. So if you want to stay at home and put all your attention to your kid, you will be able to do this without the constant fear that the H will abuse you or leave you helpless.

 

What they are forgetting is that a woman with no income of her own has no choices.

 

What the men are forgetting is that if the woman was not at home 24/7 to take care of the baby, they would not be able to have an income themselves.

[DaisyLeigh1967]

If a man wants a SAHM as a wife, he should look for someone who doesn't have career aspirations or education. Women who have high flying careers are often VERY unhappy as SAHMs.

 

 

I agree that it isn't smart for a woman to be a SAHM forever. Most women shout "FEMINISM IS ABOUT CHOICES!" in defense of SAHMs. What they are forgetting is that a woman with no income of her own has no choices.

If a SAHM has a husband who is abusive, all she has to depend on is social assistance and the kindness of family and friends. Both of those safety nets are precarious at best.

 

You know, some women are educated and still choose to SAHM. Just because they choose that does not mean they have no education or aspirations. You paint them as stupid and unmotivated. That is bull****.

 

You are correct that some asshat husband are abusive, causing the woman to scramble. So you are right in saying no woman should be dependent upon any man. Because I guess you cannot trust men.

 

Painting with a broad brush is a dangerous thing.

[xxoo]

If I could not depend on my husband, and he could not depend on me, we'd have a very sad marriage indeed.

 

I've supported him while he was in college. He's supported me as a SAHM. At any point in the unknown future, one of us could be called upon to support the other in sickness or disability. That's marriage. That's love. That's a life together.

 

And that's exactly what we signed up for.

[LostMother]

These are just a few. Take the few minutes and learn something important:

 

Why Men Are Choosing Not To Get Married, Pt. 1 - YouTube

 

DON'T GET MARRIED!!! - YouTube

 

 

 

Men I have to take some of the responsibility for what happens to their wealth. When my husband divorced me he could have lost millions of dollars but he didn’t why because he took action. He didn’t sit around waiting for things to happen. If a man’s that worried about losing his wealth he should take better care of it. My Ex-husband and I come from a different culture and that’s does play a part.

 

I have seen happen many times with men from the western culture. Main reason why they lose everything isn’t necessary the laws but the way they go about it. The women in many case goes after what she thinks she entailed too. Many times the man does nothing but complain about it. I have always believed things happen because we let them happen.

[M30USA]

Before you debate this, you have to determine whether you are referring to the LEGAL aspects of marriage or merely the idea of committing to a woman. Many men are fine with commitment, but they don't accept the blatantly biased LEGAL ramifications.

[LostMother]

Before you debate this, you have to determine whether you are referring to the LEGAL aspects of marriage or merely the idea of committing to a woman. Many men are fine with commitment, but they don't accept the blatantly biased LEGAL ramifications.

 

 

I don’t believe that at all. To me that all excuse why they don’t want to commit. No should go into a marriage thinking what could happen in case of divorce you shouldn’t even be thinking about divorce. One of the main reasons why I believe divorce is at an all-time high is because people are more concerned about them self’s and not the marriage.

[nescafe1982]

Before you debate this, you have to determine whether you are referring to the LEGAL aspects of marriage or merely the idea of committing to a woman. Many men are fine with commitment, but they don't accept the blatantly biased LEGAL ramifications.

 

So forgive this question if it's been raised elsewhere, but exactly what biases appear in the law? E.g. which ones are you referring to? Because while this is a calling-card of the anti-marriage men's brigade, I STILL have no earthly idea what aspects of marriage are so "prejudiced" against men in particular.... you know, on the basis of gender.

 

And no: child support is not "biased against men". Neither is alimony. So what, then?

 

I agree there are fiscal risks to getting married. A very real one is that the house a couple can afford together can't be maintained by one or the other spouse alone. That's a problem, for sure.

 

But I'm just not buying that marriage (and if it comes to it, divorce) is inherently biased against men. Unless you're speaking about who gets custody most of the time (there might be a case for bias there, but in divorce cases I've personally seen, the father did not contest the mother's custody).

[Elliotte]

Those videos are obviously very biased, you cannot summarize each of these subjects with a few news clippings and lines of text.

 

The sad fact is if you are on the wrong side of a social norm, you're going to have to fight harder to get equality and fight for change. But in my experience, the longer you play the victim, the more effort you take away from making the change you want.

 

When my son's mother and I separated, things quickly turned ugly with custodial and child support arrangements for our son. She tried to take him out of my life completely, but still wanted child support. I wanted to get equal time with him, and figure out fair child support. It ended up costing me a lot of time and money to fight to get what I wanted. Then when she decided to move across the country with her rich boyfriend of 3 months, I fought to get full custody so our son could have stability. Then when I was tight on money I had to fight on my own to get her to pay child support where the law said that I'd end up paying more for her to fly to our son.

 

Washington state is notoriously in favor of the mother when it comes to child custody, they have a protocol set in place and in order to get what is fair, I had to fight for years, but my son is worth it. I am sure people often face similar struggles when facing unfair social norms that do not favor equality, but personally I choose to fight for change and tell my story, not listen to fear mongering videos like this one. I used to be into this sort of biased material, listening to filth like Tom Leykis, but when you listen to nothing but one side with negative things to say, you become fearful and biased yourself. If you choose that marriage isn't for you, that's your choice, but don't make that choice based on fear!

[jphcbpa]

 

Whomever ends up with the children after a divorce should receive child support payments. Isn't that only fair?

 

agree that is fair.

 

what is not fair is having to split 1/2 of all you earn during that marriage when say one party makes twice as much as the other. it is robbery.

[Keenly]

So forgive this question if it's been raised elsewhere, but exactly what biases appear in the law? E.g. which ones are you referring to? Because while this is a calling-card of the anti-marriage men's brigade, I STILL have no earthly idea what aspects of marriage are so "prejudiced" against men in particular.... you know, on the basis of gender.

 

And no: child support is not "biased against men". Neither is alimony. So what, then?

 

I agree there are fiscal risks to getting married. A very real one is that the house a couple can afford together can't be maintained by one or the other spouse alone. That's a problem, for sure.

 

But I'm just not buying that marriage (and if it comes to it, divorce) is inherently biased against men. Unless you're speaking about who gets custody most of the time (there might be a case for bias there, but in divorce cases I've personally seen, the father did not contest the mother's custody).

 

You are certainly muddying up one point that you made.

 

 

" there are financial risks to getting married " and what you should have said is that the risk is ONLY for men. Women are risking absolutely nothing but their time and their hearts when they get married.

 

And yes, the courts are biased. You can say they are not until you are blue in the face, of doesn't make it so.

 

When a wife cheats on her husband, gets caught, and then the husband files for divorce on the grounds of infidelity and then is ordered to pay the cheater 5 years of alimony ? That's fair to you ? Really ?

[Anela]

You are certainly muddying up one point that you made.

 

 

" there are financial risks to getting married " and what you should have said is that the risk is ONLY for men. Women are risking absolutely nothing but their time and their hearts when they get married.

 

And yes, the courts are biased. You can say they are not until you are blue in the face, of doesn't make it so.

 

When a wife cheats on her husband, gets caught, and then the husband files for divorce on the grounds of infidelity and then is ordered to pay the cheater 5 years of alimony ? That's fair to you ? Really ?

 

This isn't true, we had a woman here who was paying alimony to her ex-husband who cheated on her, and I've heard of others. Also, time and hearts are extremely important. Why do you put a higher value on money, than on other things? How many women are there out there, who had babies, and supported their husbands whilst they built up their careers, only to be dumped for a younger woman once they were raking in the money?

[Janesays]

You are certainly muddying up one point that you made.

 

 

" there are financial risks to getting married " and what you should have said is that the risk is ONLY for men. Women are risking absolutely nothing but their time and their hearts when they get married.

 

 

Fact is, divorce is most risky for the highest wage earners. Doesn't matter if you're male or female. I was the highest wage earner in my last marriage. The fact that I was a WOMAN made no difference whatsoever to the courts. I made most of the money. Therefore, I lost most of the money. That's how it goes.

 

Quite a few of my female friends, who are ALSO high wage earners in their marriages, when divorced, lost similarly. Some even had to pay spousal support.

 

Outside of of child custody issues (In which their IS some bias), the courts are NOT biased towards women when it comes to divorce when there are no children involved. If you make buckets of money and your spouse makes very little, obviously the one who makes buckets of money will lose out. But that is not always the man. Very often, ESPECIALLY in this day and age, it is the WOMAN who makes more.

 

Yet...you don't see US whining about the EVIL INSTITUTION OF MARRIAGE, do you?

 

Heck, I lost EVERYTHING I had spent a decade building....and I just remarried again this year. I don't blame 'society' for my last poor marriage. I blame MYSELF for picking a lousy, no good partner. This time around, I picked more wisely.

 

If only more people had that sort of personal accountability when it comes to their failed relationships....I bet there would be a lot less threads like THESE on this board.

Edited December 5, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[jphcbpa]

 

Fact is, divorce is most risky for the highest wage earners. Doesn't matter if you're male or female. I was the highest wage earner in my last marriage. The fact that I was a WOMAN made no difference whatsoever to the courts. I made most of the money. Therefore, I lost most of the money. .

 

it is robbery and the main reason I do not want to get married again unless my s/o would be willing to sign a prenup and keep everything separate.

[Janesays]

it is robbery and the main reason I do not want to get married again unless my s/o would be willing to sign a prenup and keep everything separate.

 

Then don't. It's no skin off of my nose. *shrugs

[Grumpybutfun]

 

If only more people had that sort of personal accountability when it comes to their failed relationships....I bet there would be a lot less threads like THESE on this board.

 

Hi Janesays:

Personal responsibility? ...but that is old fashioned and not cool anymore. People are so sensitive and thin skinned that they will completely stop trying things in order to not hurt anymore. Adversity is an asset in my book. I am sure it made you choose a better life's partner this time around because you probably learned a lot from that catastrophe. I value my hard knock life because I don't expect things to be easy or to be fair all the time. People can have great lives without marriage, but to opt out or bash it due to perceived slights due to their own failed experiences is irresponsible and not helpful.

Best,

G

[elbe]

Let's not pretend an incredibly unprofessional youtube video is a scholarly reference.

[Janesays]

Hi Janesays:

Personal responsibility? ...but that is old fashioned and not cool anymore. People are so sensitive and thin skinned that they will completely stop trying things in order to not hurt anymore. Adversity is an asset in my book. I am sure it made you choose a better life's partner this time around because you probably learned a lot from that catastrophe. I value my hard knock life because I don't expect things to be easy or to be fair all the time. People can have great lives without marriage, but to opt out or bash it due to perceived slights due to their own failed experiences is irresponsible and not helpful.

Best,

G

 

Couldn't agree more. That divorce, and losing everything, ended up being the best thing that ever happened to me. I learned a lot about myself, my values, what I wanted (and didn't want) in a partner, and how I wanted my future to play out after that divorce. I learned how to set boundaries, be smarter with my personal choices, and...I could go on and on.

 

Did I lose a BIG OL' chunk of change in the learning process? Oh yeah. Sure. And at the time, it was devastating. But I also learned that I'm smart and capable and have the ability to build myself back up. Which I did. And the life I built from myself, learning those lessons I GAINED from experiencing a horrible divorce, only set me up for a life that was 100 times better than the one I lost.

 

What people need to realize is that even tragedy can be a positive, wonderful thing. It really just depends on what type of person YOU are inside. If you're a loser and a wallower, you will always be a loser and wallower. If you are a champion, you will spin tragedy into triumph every time. People have that choice and ability....if only they had the guts and perseverance to pursue it.