Why men are opting out of marriage

[Got it]

While I don't agree with the views of the OP I do believe we need to change the courts so that people don't get screwed over just because a marriage ends. Just because you were married to somebody at one point should not entitle you to their stuff.

 

I agree, the courts needs to be updated on their decisions, one area is child care, visitation, and custody. It does lean more to the mother's still and I think we see more and more men who are becoming primary care givers or definite joint. It is, generally, in the children's best interest to be with their parents equally.

 

In regards to "entitled to one's stuff" how is it decided who has what and when? How are you defining that?

 

And a good direction to go into for this is, one marry later in life after one has acquired most of their things and marry in a state that differentiates what assets are brought into the marriage and what are acquired during the marriage, have a pre-nup, and a clearly defined will and last testament.

 

But at the end of the day we are just talking about stuff. And how much does stuff matter? What should matter, in my eyes, is an even division of household goods, joint custody, neither parent should stop working and if they do or cut back they are investing in their education, and keep income the same. Then it stays on an even kiln. Not sure how realistic that is but it would keep it easier.

[M30USA]

Ah yes, the attempted shaming of those men intelligent enough to not sign a contract forfeiting their assets based solely on the long term emotions of another person.

 

Wow...wow...wow...wow...wow...

[Janesays]

Why, THIS story doesn't fall in line at ALL with the OP's bitter agenda! In fact, it MUST not be true because only women are evil and only women rape guys financially, and only women benefit from marriage! WHERE that benefit for women is, however, is beyond me. Usually most women have to work a full time job PLUS spit out 2.5 kids, PLUS do 99% of the housework, PLUS do all the childrearing and cooking and cleaning while that poor, victimized hapless guy is sitting on his lazy ass watching TV or jerking off to computer porn. Yeah, the woman gains SO much from being an indentured slave and brood mare to some jack-off.

 

OP, you should be glad anyone gave your bitter ass the time of day.

 

It's funny because I have another female friend who got stuck paying spousal support (no children) for 10 years after divorcing her ex. She's very 'meh' about it. Nothing even CLOSE to as furious as a lot of males seem to get when they're asked to pay spousal or child support. My friend just got remarried, too, so that decade long payment didn't turn her off towards marriage, nor did it poison her attitude towards men. I don't understand why a woman, when ordered to pay spousal or child support, can say, "Eh, what's fair is fair or that's life or my bad, shouldn't have married a jerk," but men when asked to do the same scream, "OMG THOSE EVIL FEMINAZIS AND THE HORRIBLE COURTS ARE OUT TO VICTIMIZE US ALL, ARGHHHHH!"

[Woggle]

It's funny because I have another female friend who got stuck paying spousal support (no children) for 10 years after divorcing her ex. She's very 'meh' about it. Nothing even CLOSE to as furious as a lot of males seem to get when they're asked to pay spousal or child support. My friend just got remarried, too, so that decade long payment didn't turn her off towards marriage, nor did it poison her attitude towards men. I don't understand why a woman, when ordered to pay spousal or child support, can say, "Eh, what's fair is fair or that's life or my bad, shouldn't have married a jerk," but men when asked to do the same scream, "OMG THOSE EVIL FEMINAZIS AND THE HORRIBLE COURTS ARE OUT TO VICTIMIZE US ALL, ARGHHHHH!"

 

Because one of the most offensive things you can do to a man is mess with his wallet. Men kill each other over money so that is why we get so angry about it. I would never be violent over it but I admit that I do not tolerate people trying to take my resources very easily. I work hard for my money.

 

When it starts happening more and more like I think it will women will probably be angry about it as well. That is why I think alimony is an outdated relic.

[Janesays]

Because one of the most offensive things you can do to a man is mess with his wallet. Men kill each other over money so that is why we get so angry about it. I would never be violent over it but I admit that I do not tolerate people trying to take my resources very easily. I work hard for my money.

 

When it starts happening more and more like I think it will women will probably be angry about it as well. That is why I think alimony is an outdated relic.

 

I work hard for my money, too. But I'm also smart enough to know there are more important things in life and I'm confident enough that I know I'll be able to earn more in the future and build myself back up.

 

Personally, I don't think it's a compliment to men to say that they're so superficial that they'll murder over cash. That seems pretty unstable to me. Not a value I'd like to pass onto my future sons, that's for sure.

[Woggle]

I work hard for my money, too. But I'm also smart enough to know there are more important things in life and I'm confident enough that I know I'll be able to earn more in the future and build myself back up.

 

Personally, I don't think it's a compliment to men to say that they're so superficial that they'll murder over cash. That seems pretty unstable to me. Not a value I'd like to pass onto my future sons, that's for sure.

 

If you work hard you should be offended at the prospect of having to hand it over to somebody just because a marriage didn't work out. I know you are getting married so I hope both of you have a prenup.

 

In this world money is power and it gets you a better life so it is no surprise people kill over it. Women are going to do the same thing the more power they get. When you have nothing a person will do anything rather than lay down and die. There are female criminals who make blood money as well.

[musemaj11]

Why, THIS story doesn't fall in line at ALL with the OP's bitter agenda! In fact, it MUST not be true because only women are evil and only women rape guys financially, and only women benefit from marriage! WHERE that benefit for women is, however, is beyond me. Usually most women have to work a full time job PLUS spit out 2.5 kids, PLUS do 99% of the housework, PLUS do all the childrearing and cooking and cleaning while that poor, victimized hapless guy is sitting on his lazy ass watching TV or jerking off to computer porn. Yeah, the woman gains SO much from being an indentured slave and brood mare to some jack-off.

 

OP, you should be glad anyone gave your bitter ass the time of day.

Women like Janesays makes up probably 1% of all women, and you are not one of them anyway. So save us your crap.

[carhill]

Here's an anecdote about a local lady which can both rebut Janesay's posting as well as illustrate why men are opting out of marriage. It's a true story and I lived here during that period. The link is from TruTV because they did a national TV series on it:

 

Larissa Schuster — A joyful married life — Crime Library on truTV.com

 

My personal experiences going through divorce and with women in general over the decades underscore a similar, if not as violent and deadly, focus on their 'pile'. I'm not saying that's wrong, but let's not ignore it and stereotype women as the kind and generous old ladies like our grandmothers appeared to be when we were children. They're not, at least not when it comes to their money. Accepted.

[BetheButterfly]

Because one of the most offensive things you can do to a man is mess with his wallet. Men kill each other over money so that is why we get so angry about it. I would never be violent over it but I admit that I do not tolerate people trying to take my resources very easily. I work hard for my money.

 

When it starts happening more and more like I think it will women will probably be angry about it as well. That is why I think alimony is an outdated relic.

 

I agree. When I divorced my first husband, my desire was NOT to get alimony from him, even though he's a perfectionist, highly talented, driven, and successful man. Since I no longer was going to be his wife, it was not right of me to take anything from him, including his money. Now, if we had had a child together, I do believe the Daddy needs to contribute financially and emotionally in raising our child. However, we don't have any kids. He is no longer in my life and it would not be reasonable for me to have taken his money he was earning. He was no longer responsible for me as soon as I sent him the divorce papers. My family helped me financially and I worked too.

 

As a very happily married lady, my husband works for us. Now, I have a part part-time job, but will be working after Christmas in a full-time position, God willing. However, if we ever divorce (which I don't at all think is going to happen!!!) then I would not ask for him to provide for me either. He is also a perfectionist (though very kind about it!), highly talented, driven, and successful in what he does. One thing we do though is we don't use the "D word" in our marriage... that's one thing we decided and made a pact not to do. We don't want to divorce. However, we do know that any infidelity will automatically mean divorce. If (which I believe is extremely unlikely) he cheats on me, I don't think that gives me a right to his money if I decide to divorce him...

 

So, I completely agree with you. Unless the spouse is not able to work and relies on assistance, I don't see the reason for alimony. I do see the reason for child support though, but child support should be reasonable, not extravagant.

[123321]

A smarter man would protect his assets, and I'm speaking about more air-tight legalese than highly contestable prenuptial.

 

Agreed, however a divorce can be worse than the bad marriage, its only saving grace is that it has an end to it.

 

If people have real assets to speak of, they'll not only be using prenups, they'll also have some assets held in trusts that don't fuel their current lifestyle.

 

What I find amusing, is that guy who yells "prenup" or "no way, no how, I'm getting married since I fear the loss of my nickels and dimes" with less than $50K in assets.

 

I disagree, a guy who earns less will care about a lesser amount, it's not just the number of zeros he feels it's the amount of his life he gave up to earn that money that counts too.

 

 

its no problem with me that some men don't want to be married. If i ever get married remind me not to do it with one of these nonmarriage types!

 

Excellent plan and I endorse it. Also, you remind me of a girl I used to know who also used Kiwi in her online handle. Coincidence, or North Carolina?

[stillafool]

I think men get a better deal. You don't have to lose or stop your Career to have children. Men don't do maternity leave. Women still do most of the housework AND plus go out and work. Men do hardly any housework.

 

That's right. Women are starting to realize this as well and feel as the OP does. Not every woman is 'chomping at the bit' to get married. For alot of women it's too much work involved being a wife and mom.

[Got it]

If you work hard you should be offended at the prospect of having to hand it over to somebody just because a marriage didn't work out. I know you are getting married so I hope both of you have a prenup.

 

In this world money is power and it gets you a better life so it is no surprise people kill over it. Women are going to do the same thing the more power they get. When you have nothing a person will do anything rather than lay down and die. There are female criminals who make blood money as well.

 

My father has continued to help my mother decade after their divorce. He doesn't have to but he does. Why? Because he knows that the easier he can make her life, the easier it makes his kid's lives. And that is why he has no qualms in helping to support her. I really appreciate it though we have all said he doesn't need to. But we appreciate that since he makes substantially more than her (years after the divorce) he continues to want to spread the wealth. The company I work for, the Owner was previously married and he had three of his kids with her. He and his wife have continued to support the ex wife because they have been successful and helping her helps their kids. My fiance pays his ex alimony and child support well above what the courts would mandate. He is also paying child support while the kids are in college and living at home. Why? Because it helps the kids. If his ex benefits as well, well that is good for her, but he knows it goes to the kids and makes their lifestyle better.

 

That is an awesome way to be.

 

Alimony and child support is to help the parent that is the main childcare provider. Alimony is to help the spouse that took a cut in pay, advancement, etc. to support the family and now needs time to try and get up to speed and try and make things parable again.

 

You do see who a person is during a divorce so yes I think both sides can get ugly. I do think prenups are good ideas. Things should be as reasonably struck down the middle as much as possible.

 

When I divorced I took nothing from my ex. I didn't want anything outside my few items. We had an amicable divorce. Actually one of the easiest divorces most have heard of. We didn't hate each other. Did want to hurt the other person, we were just politely dissolving us and moving on.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Got it

[strongnrelaxed]

Some people can't just leave it at that. They have to also throw in that marriage only benefits women and that any guy who gets married is dumb.

 

How does marriage benefit men? Please explain this? And men who get married are not dumb - they are most certainly un/misinformed and possibly manipulated. Anyone who reads the divorce laws in their states - the most recent iterations of which can be found out in divorce court - would be foolish to sign such a contract.

 

This does not make these men bad - just guilty of a bad judgment call. A VERY bad judgment call.

 

If that were a business contract, the male signing it would be a sucker and would get taken for a fool. In business you lose money. In Marriage your children lose, you lose, your family loses, and society loses.

 

How can one possibly argue against this? This is a nearly unassailable unless you have no children or family.

 

I can speak from experience and much research here, but do not believe me. Keep getting married. Men who do this deserve everything they get. Experience is the best teacher. I just feel bad for all those kids.

 

How about we just leave it THERE - at reality. Fairytales are for little girls. The topic of Marriage is a grownup discussion not the best place for name-callers and political wingnuts.

[stillafool]

I completely agree Nyla. Marriage with kids is damn near slave work for women. I watched my mom and knew I wanted no part of what she did. She was a stay at home mom and her work never ended. At least my fathers work was done once he got home.

[Ninjainpajamas]

There aren't any reasons for men to get married....they're either beta males, naive, idealistic or traditionalist.

 

And furthermore, I could even make the argument for women...however I think there is clearly more benefit for women to get married than men...mainly because of the system and also because of human nature...the way we're both wired as a species...males and females.

 

And ask a woman in a bad marriage if she wants out...can just about guarantee you she wants to be in it and make it work...whatever "making it work" means...which to me means delusion/unrealistic. If a woman wants to be in a bad marriage, then what does that tell you about that woman? that she doesn't WANT to be married?

 

Because unless there's some reason, some benefit to you...what's the point? what do you stand to gain? It's like you just bought what you already had for free. Ain't no damn reason to get married...what? just because you looove her and want to make the ultimate commitment? you poor bastard.

 

You think she's marrying you because of what you want? HAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

I PITY THE FOOL!

 

Seriously, there's just NOTHING in it for you that you don't already got right now...but go ahead twinkle toes, give in to the pressure, give into the "ideal", let me know what improves or what you gained four or five years into marriage...keep telling yourself you got something out of it, keep convincing yourself it was for the best while you're in your little honeymoon/denial phase...because women are smart, they don't unleash it all at once on you, they gradually and ever so slowly start giving you more and more and more responsibilities/expectations and start to turn their dreams and this vision in their minds that they have into a reality...it's not because of YOU as an individual man...you are just simply THE MAN who happened to take the bait. She already wanted to get married before you, you're just the sucker I mean guy who fell into it...if it wasn't you, it'd have been somebody else and if it doesn't work it'll likely be somebody else after you all the same.

 

And let's face it, for some men that are married...some guys go to jail, and when they get out of jail....they want to go back...not because jail is "good" but because someone wakes them up every morning, tells when to eat and shower, and everything else...they can't handle the freedom, function or the power, they can't take advantage of it...they are less without more because they're so unsuccessful at being happy alone that the better alternative would be something seen as a negative to another man who could take advantage of it...and that's the truth, no reason a man NEEDS to get married if he's got a good supply of sex and success, and not even for women. A lot of these men who are married are dependent and simply are like big children...congratulations ladies, what a catch!

 

But hey, if you want to put your socks in the bin, rearrange your bathroom with pink flowers and fluffy seat covers, or get checked in on every where you go, have a curfew on the weekends cause everything you do will be critiqued and "fixed", not be able to have any female friends that aren't fat, ugly or retarded...or without the "social group" because that shet might fly for now but eventually she'll get you cut off....rest assured that woman is going to do what she can more often than not to secure her relationship and put you into a box where you do A, B and C...unless you're a pussy because she's not even worried about you because you're a good little boy and do it all on your own...and if you're the douchebag, like you're the @sshole controlling dude that abuses your wife emotionally or physically and represses her and all that...then you'll still be unhappy, even with your temper tantrums and your pathetic sexual performance, that's if you're even having sex..you're still going to be unhappy and pissed because you won't want to be married anymore so you'll just resent her and take it out on her.

 

Otherwise you "nice guys", good luck being the fixer, good look being mr therapist who will inherit all of your woman's personal issues and problems...after all, that's why she's with you, she needs your SUPPORT.

 

Too fat? = you fix it, make her feel sexy, better

Issues with daddy? = you make her feel better, reassure her that its going to be ok

Issues all the men she banged before meeting you? = you show her how to love and be loved because all she was doing in the past was trying to feel loved...but then again she probably has more passion and feelings for one of those guys then she'll ever have for you...but you're there for her now, so it's nice, plus you stuck around, they didn't or she'd probably be with him

Issues at work? = you sit there and listen to her, let her vent about her day and don't offer any solutions of course, nobody wants your advice on how to fix it...you're just supposed to deal

 

So it's a lose, lose! but by all means...go ahead, take it for a test spin....take a look around you though and all those married men all around you, ask them how they're doing, whether they were happier single or married and watch the garbled watered down balanced pre-scripted version of what a married mans version of the truth is, watch the face of that man...unless he's just had it and trying to save your soul from his destiny.

 

Both sexes have so much more to lose being married because relationships are draining enough when things go wrong or bad you don't need some added contract that suddenly changes the entire dynamic of what is supposed to be simply genuine and respectful...at best at least make sure it's with a woman you can trust and communicate with, then maybe she won't drill in the butt too hard if you've got something worth having...because if you do she's probably taking half of it anyway because she'll convince herself that it's worth it, and honestly you don't know a woman until you come to point where she can actually screw you over...you never know what a woman would do to you, she's not that nice little innocent princess you think she is, in that mind there's a psychotic that could be dwelling and if you cross her in just the wrong way...she's taking you down with her!

 

Oh and if you have kids the hammer is going to come down on you real hard, think real hard about having kids with that woman and you might actually survive...otherwise put your balls on the cutting board so mr sushi can take a chop at it with his cleaver.

 

I laugh at these poor guys who have no clue about women making big life decisions with them, they're all happy and naive, gullible to the fact that the woman is going to get what she wants whether you want it or not...and thinks she's going to be all good and the same and it'll last forever...then years later they're down miserly and lame, looking like they're dying of a slow painful disease.

 

So good luck guys, I'm rooting for ya...as women will say "man-up", be responsible and do what a real man should do, be a family man and what she thinks you're supposed to be...the less you struggle the easier it will be for you once you're in it and hopefully you'll never see the fog creeping over you over time...some of you are being played like fiddles and don't even realize it...it's quite entertaining indeed at the gullibility of some men.

 

No independent, self-sufficient person should greatly desire marriage...there's nothing to gain with the title, it's just a name with an obligation, not a mutual commitment. You can only hope to come out unscathed if things go south...both partners, I don't know how that is a positive thing if you don't end up losing out or as screwed as you could have been...what a wonderful world we live in.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Ninjainpajamas

[xxoo]

It's great that men are feeling empowered to opt out of marriage. No one benefits when a man marries because he feels pressured or doesn't understand the implications.

 

A man who marries with full understanding of the implications, because he WANTS that legal bond and responsibility, is a far better choice for husband. The same goes for women and better wives. And that kind of marriage is a huge blessing for both spouses.

[NGC1300]

You can laugh but 50K is a massive amount of money to many. They are the ones that have to be the most careful as they can't afford any kind of financial hit in life.

 

No kidding.

 

I can't believe someone would claim that a man having less assets means he should be less careful with them.

[Lauriebell82]

Didn't read the whole thread, but WOW. OP, you have a serious aversion to marriage, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But does it really make you feel better about yourself to try to convince other HAPPILY MARRIED individuals on this forum to feel as though you do?

[Iguanna]

Why Men Are Choosing Not To Get Married, Pt. 1 - YouTube

 

I find this video extremely propagandistic and hateful towards women, showing them ALL as bitches who just want to make a man spend for them, make them give HER a baby and then leave with her new boyfriend and the baby, having the ex husband paying for life. Yes SOME women are like this. I'm no feminist, in fact I believe deeply that feminism has destroyed women than made them any good in some cases. But making something that is partial into general is not a great way of approaching things. The women who are like this show their faces early. Men have to be aware and read the signs. If you meet a woman who wants you to pay EVERY time for her food, later clothes, bills, shoes, jewelry, trips etc (and she gives you the feeling she finds all this natural cause you are the man and you have to pay for her company), THIS woman will take advantage of you before, during and after marriage. A woman who has some dignity and she believes that you are a human being as well and not a money machine will insist on paying many if not half the times, she won't ask for gifts, she will respect your money as she respects hers. She will be honest, it's hard to recognize when someone is lying, but there are the signs, learn to read them! You will feel SAFE with her, you will feel that she really loves you, that she hasn't used anything against you even though she had the chance sometimes, she won't just get pregnant "by mistake" but you will both discuss about it and decide when it's the right time. The more you fall for manipulators the more the good girls will vanish cause they will see that they can only survive from being bad after all. Don't do this. Not all women are like this. Learn to keep your mind open, and THINK. Nobody is such a great actor to pretend for long time, they will show eventually their true faces.

[John-Dough]

I've been married for, I think 23 years. I will admit that in many conversations I have had with friends who are also married men, the comment has been made, 'I'm not sure exactly what we get out of this', and it is pretty much unanimously agreed upon.

 

It's not true for all, but it is for many.

[Woggle]

Men need to approach marriage like buying a house. It is a major investment that can be a great thing but can ruin you if you choose wrongly. Really get to know a woman before you marry her and make sure you get a prenup and have it looked at by a lawyer that knows what they are doing. Also try to avoid being pushed into a provider role.

[lollipopspot]

Married men are obviously getting something out of it, since they're healthier and live longer than unmarried men:

A major survey of 127,545 American adults found that married men are healthier than men who were never married or whose marriages ended in divorce or widowhood. Men who have marital partners also live longer than men without spouses; men who marry after age 25 get more protection than those who tie the knot at a younger age, and the longer a man stays married, the greater his survival advantage over his unmarried peers. But is marriage itself responsible for better health and longer life?

 

Although it's hard to be sure, marriage seems to deserve at least part of the credit.

Marriage and Men's Health - Harvard Health Publications

[Grumpybutfun]

OP:

What I am reading here is that men are supposed to opt out of marriage due to the aftermath of a bitter and painful divorce because the courts will be on the woman's side regardless of who gets the children because she has a vagina. If someone goes into a commitment with an eye on divorce, this may be good advice because no marriage/commitment can stay solid if a divorce is the perceived outcome.

 

Marriage is beneficial to me because I have someone who supports me, shares my life and home, and makes me generally a happier man. Ninjainpajamas had a thread close to this one which stated that only divorced/single men had any idea on reality since married men are manipulated and cowed, and have no idea of the dangers imposed by the evilness of women. Therefore no other opinion is valid to men who believe this tripe and have been divorced once or several times. Their ideas stem on the perceived notion that they have little responsibility and that courts and laws are enacted against them for being male. I live in the deepest of the south (USA) and I can tell you that even in Bible thumping, ultra conservative places, laws are usually across the board of the division of property and assets. Bringing emotional baggage into that division usually doesn't matter to the courts or the laws in place which are usually there to protect the children. Usually if laws do favor the woman it is because she takes the sole custody or primary custody of children. I have known many divorced men and women (military is a hard place for a marriage) and alimony is usually only given in the most extreme of circumstances, for a limited time period, and I have seen it given to men who are SAHD.

 

I suppose perception is your reality, and that is fine, but I wouldn't be poisoning the minds of young men and women with your vitriolic rhetoric without honestly evaluating if you did everything you could to have a healthy/happy marriage and if the aftermath of your divorce will be the aftermath of everyone's marriages. I don't know this reality first hand because I actually acknowledge that people can be flawed and not evil. I also don't believe that men have no responsibilities for the decline of their marriages, or that they are anthroplogically flawed for participating in this traditional union. Also, if I did have this type of attitude that all women are out to get men and marriage isn't healthy for men, I usually would acknowledge I have a hand in my own drama in my life either by allowing it or by attracting it. We make our own reality by the choices we make.

 

If my union with the love of my life is falling apart, money will be the last of my worries, but perhaps this shows that what people value is a reflection of how well they relate to another person in a relationship. Maybe look inward to see if perhaps you have a distorted view because of your own shortcomings and then consider that marriage is like everything else in life, only successful if it is nurtured and maintained.

 

I also completely support the idea that some people will be happier without getting married or even being in a LTR. However, to pollute the boards with more of this marriage bashing rhetoric is irresponsible. Marriage and divorce in the same sentence concerning this topic isn't the reality for all of us, and we aren't old shriveled up men who have lost their balls or are easily manipulated by the "enemy." I am in the prime of my life and have had an excellent life with an excellent woman.You are choosing to be in a gender war that some of us find trite, unnecessary and pedantic.

Perhaps, a better discussion would be "Is marriage for everyone? If not, why?" Or, "Why marriage and divorce wrecked my soul and started my gender wars." Claiming that marriage is bad for an entire gender is hubris.

Happily Married, Gender War Free,

Grumps

[Woggle]

What happens if a man wants a wife who is a SAHM? Who would provide for the family in that case? Most men take pride in being a provider, even when their wives make more than them.

 

 

Whomever ends up with the children after a divorce should receive child support payments. Isn't that only fair?

 

I very much do understand where you are coming from but that is not the kind of marriage I would want and I think it is risky in this day and age.

 

I think of the men on here go too far with how they act like all women are out to get men and take their money but the system does need some serious changes to how divorced men get treated in family court. Things are slowly starting to change but until they do I just don't think it is smart for a man to make himself the sole financial provider in a marriage. It's not really smart for anybody actually.

[nescafe1982]

Men who "opt out" of marriage remind me a little of the cricket who rested and played all summer while the ant built his abode.

 

We all get old eventually. I'll be glad to have someone to share the winter with. Risky? Yes, for both partners. But worth it? God yes, for all concerned.