Confidence is overrated

[threebyfate]

You need an

[Necris]

You need an

 

A little cheesy but kind of funny.

 

Nah I don't need an Angela. I like being at least somewhat sane now:lmao:.

 

Anyway on the subject of confidence, what benefit does confidence give someone? Confidence is just the belief that you will succeed, I find rather I believe I'll be successful or not has no real bearing on the outcome. Though in dating I can think of one benefit of confidence the more confident you are the more likely you are to approach someone with zero confidence will be unlikely to approach anyone, but really that's the only benefit confidence gives you.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Necris

[hinatticus]

Necris. Your analogy doesn't work. Tiger woods is confident playing golf. Through years of practice and believing in himself. If you took all of tiger woods' confidence away, do you still think he will play a good game of golf?

 

You need to do what tiger did. Practice, fail, practice some more, fail some more, to a point where you are confident in your capabilities.

 

I think that not caring can help build confidence. Not caring=not having fear

[Necris]

Necris. Your analogy doesn't work. Tiger woods is confident playing golf. Through years of practice and believing in himself. If you took all of tiger woods' confidence away, do you still think he will play a good game of golf?

 

You need to do what tiger did. Practice, fail, practice some more, fail some more, to a point where you are confident in your capabilities.

 

I think that not caring can help build confidence. Not caring=not having fear

 

If you took Tiger's success and skill away do you think he'll be confident in his abilities? Tiger got his confidence from winning not losing, constant failure won't make someone confident. Honestly how did you become confident in anything? Was it through constant failure with no signs of any success?

 

Anyway are you guys confusing confidence with self-esteem as they are quite different self-esteem is your feeling of overall self-worth, confidence is how you feel about your ability to do something in particular. Confidence won't produce results the only thing it would allow you to do is to keep playing the game in the hopes that you will succeed.

 

Perhaps I do need to stop caring about all of this. Not caring won't build confidence but then again you won't care one way or another.

[Revolver]

Almost as overrated as "be yourself". Confidence can work in all aspects of life but its easy to be confident when your positively reinforced of that by other people. There's only so long you can feed yourself BS if you don't see results.

[Nomad]

Now why do you say that?

 

I was just pointing out being confident in one thing doesn't make you confident in everything, in my example Tiger Woods is known for being a world class top of the world golfer if you pit him against a boxer in a golfing tournament he'd probably feel quite confident that he can kick his a**, if you pit Tiger Woods against a boxer in a boxing match, well... his confidence is probably going to be gone, and I don't see him doing anything except getting beat unconscious. Same thing with dating I may feel confident in other things I'm knowledgeable at like playing video games, computer skills, history, hiking, religious studies, various sciences, I'm like an encyclopedia but women? I have literally zero success so I'm not too confident.

I hate to say it, but if you're having "zero success" with women, then you're probably just not good-looking, in which case you're going to have a much tougher time of it.

 

Forget about "confidence" - it's baloney. It's one of those things people like to say matters in the dating world, but in truth plays a very small role, perhaps because people are uncomfortable just saying that it's mostly about looks. People like to pretend that we don't live in a "shallow" society, but we do. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

[Nomad]

Almost as overrated as "be yourself".

Totally agree. For some people, "being themselves" is the worst thing they can do.

[hinatticus]

If you took Tiger's success and skill away do you think he'll be confident in his abilities? Tiger got his confidence from winning not losing, constant failure won't make someone confident. Honestly how did you become confident in anything? Was it through constant failure with no signs of any success?

 

obviously if you took his success and skill away he wouldn't be confident. I'm saying he gained confidence through practice, failing to hit the ball straight, practicing again, failing to drop it in the cup and then practicing some more. He practiced to a point where he was confident in his abilities to enter a tournament. Good thing tiger woods doesn't have your confidence level, otherwise he would've quit a long time ago. I'm pretty sure tiger woods was confident BEFORE he won his first tournament. Through winning his confidence grew which led to more winning.

 

So for you, practice equals grooming yourself, smelling good, having manners, treating women with respect, not being arrogant, not being a doormat, hitting on chicks that are within your playing field, having a decent work ethic, having hobbies and interests to show girls you can be interesting etc. Practice those things and you may start winning. Unless of course you are ugly as f*ck, but even then I've seen ugly people get married.

 

The key is to play within your playing field. Don't hit on supermodels if you're ugly, hit on ugly girls if you're ugly. Ugly to me may be beauty to another, so it can get complicated.

[ThaWholigan]

[Emilia]

 

:laugh:

 

you've finally come over to the dark side

[InJest]

I have no idea. I also have no idea how stopping "trying so hard" demonstrates confidence. Are you good-looking?

 

If confidence is such an important factor, why is it that couples assort so strongly on the basis of looks? Are there simply no ugly but confident men?

 

Yes, I am good looking, but I didn't always do so well with women. It wasn't until I gained confidence and pride from what I was doing with the rest of my life that women started lining up. You also have to learn how to talk to women and more importantly, listen. When I talk about not trying so hard, I just mean putting in equal effort, instead of trying to sweep her off her feet. Suggest free dates, or easy,fun activities, instead of taking her to an expensive dinner for a first date. Keep it light and fun until things start to get heavier naturally. That's what "be yourself" means. Girls(or anyone) can tell when someone is trying too hard. Trying too hard shows a lack of confidence, because it basically shouts, "I don't think I deserve you."

 

Even if couples do assort strongly on the basis of looks, that doesn't mean an ugly guy can't get with an ugly or even average looking girl. Whether you're going after a dime, a nickel, or a penny on the looks scale of 1-10, you're not going to get far, if you come off as a meek little mouse, that beats around the bush instead of firmly suggesting a date.

 

Anyway when you guys say confidence are you perhaps confusing confidence with self-esteem?

 

You can play semantics all you want, but contorting words to try and fit your point doesn't change anything. Confidence and self-esteem go hand in hand. If you really believe you are the ish(with or without a chick), then it will show. To really believe you are the ish, you need to do things that make you proud of yourself. Can you follow that logic? It's pretty simple, and I don't think I can make it any more linear than that.

[carhill]

The appearance of confidence and the obvious (to others) projection of it is, IME, highly rated. The key is in the projection and perception of it, regardless of basis. Unobserved/unperceived confidence is like a tree falling in a forest with no one to hear it fall. It's good wood but no one noticed so it's never discovered.

[Meatballsmom]

You constant complainers, just don't get it, yes a handsome man probably will get a second look, but it will not get him very far. We are looking at a man;s manliness.

 

From a woman's point a view, a man's self confidence does not stand alone, rather it is only one of many charcteristics that a woman looks for in a mate. It all blends in with his playfulness, his self worth, his out look for the future, etc, that makes a woman decide that she would like to get to know a man better. That is what attracts a woman to a man

[colombiana28]

There's nothing more unattractive than a man who is desperate for a relationship.

 

There was this one guy I worked with a few years ago. Had terrible rosacea, overweight, bald, ginger dude around 28. Just looked like the biggest dork. But the longer I worked with him, he just seemed to draw me in. And MAN he dated the hottest freaking women! Thing is, he always had stuff going on...was always going to a beer festival, or ski trip, or hiking a mountain. He was insanely adventurous - JUST FOR THE SAKE OF BEING ADVENTUROUS and ENJOYING life. Always excited about something, always passionate about his hobbies & trips. Whenever we'd be at a bar in a group, he'd never pay attention to the prettiest girls. The dude wasn't good looking, but he never came off as if he was TRYING to hook up with a girl, if he was talking to her he'd be fiddling on his phone every now and then, smiling slyly at whatever on the screen. You never felt like you had his full attention. And it was totally alluring.

 

Girls want to think they're COMPETING for your attention. If you don't care AT ALL, if you don't WANT us, we're like putty in your hands. Playing games? Sure. But attraction and dating are funny. Learn and know how to interact with women and eventually you'll have a girlfriend.

 

Pretty much everything InJest said is spot on.

Edited October 23, 2012 by colombiana28

[Necris]

I'm pretty sure tiger woods was confident BEFORE he won his first tournament. Through winning his confidence grew which led to more winning.

 

Before he won his first tournament he was also winning against other people he played golf with. If he couldn't even beat average joe in golf would he be confident enough to try to enter a tournament?

 

So for you, practice equals grooming yourself, smelling good, having manners, treating women with respect, not being arrogant, not being a doormat, hitting on chicks that are within your playing field, having a decent work ethic, having hobbies and interests to show girls you can be interesting etc. Practice those things and you may start winning. Unless of course you are ugly as f*ck, but even then I've seen ugly people get married.

 

The key is to play within your playing field. Don't hit on supermodels if you're ugly, hit on ugly girls if you're ugly. Ugly to me may be beauty to another, so it can get complicated.

 

I do all of those things except for perhaps having hobbies that girls find interesting. Also when I say I get rejected by women I'm not just approaching the hot ones but the girls who aren't even that good looking reject me as well.

 

Personally what I really need to do is to stop caring, stop trying and just do something else (tips on learning to not care about women, relationships, sex, etc. would be much appreciated), I may or may not have more success that way but if I don't care that won't matter in the slightest. Or keep going on that infinite search finding a girl who likes me for who I am.

[InJest]

There aren't really tips to stop caring. You need to find something to focus on(hobby, activity, whatever). Fill your idle time, so that you're not thinking about it all the time. Talk to every girl like you don't care if you ever see her again. That doesn't mean be a dick necessarily, it means you don't bite your tongue when you think something might offend someone, you just say what you're thinking. That's the type of thing people mean when they say, "be yourself".

 

I have no filter between brain and mouth, and frequently with women and people in general, I say something that I think will probably be offensive, and they other person/people actually start laughing or just agree with me.

[espec10001]

Before he won his first tournament he was also winning against other people he played golf with. If he couldn't even beat average joe in golf would he be confident enough to try to enter a tournament?

 

Dude, are you on drugs? No one gets good at anything without insane amounts of practice. Tiger Woods eats, breathes, sleeps golf. That's why he's better. Who wins in a 1v1 fighting match? The guy who lives, breathes, and sleeps fighting more than his opponent. The best musicians and artists? Yep, it's the ones who devote the most time to it.

 

I can tell from your posts that you aren't attractive to women because you place too much importance on them and what they think of you. As a guy, you have a lot of freedom to do things which have nothing to do with women. Even if you aren't the best looking guy, women are not the be all end all of the world. Having a girlfriend or a wife is not going to magically make you a better person or a happier man. That has to come from within your own soul.

 

Women should be seen as an accessory, something that is nice to have but you aren't going to shrivel up and die if you don't have one. Even if you think every guy who has a hot girlfriend is so lucky, you can't judge outward appearances because the girl might be a major headache or she's just rotten on the inside, in which case the guy would probably be happier WITHOUT her. Keep that it mind!

[Necris]

Dude, are you on drugs? No one gets good at anything without insane amounts of practice. Tiger Woods eats, breathes, sleeps golf. That's why he's better. Who wins in a 1v1 fighting match? The guy who lives, breathes, and sleeps fighting more than his opponent. The best musicians and artists? Yep, it's the ones who devote the most time to it.

 

I'm definitely not saying he didn't practice, but practice doesn't create confidence, it is the results after practice that create the confidence. I can practice for a test or a sport but if I get my a** handed to me afterwards I won't feel confident. Its that feeling of triumphing over your opponents that get your confidence going, not being beaten. Confidence is that feeling that you know you can win. As for practice, practice can help confidence if you know the answers or you know your practice has given you abilities beyond your opponent but in dating you are playing a sport where there are no right answers, no rules, your victory is dependent on the whims of another.

 

As for the rest of your post you're right I need to stop caring, stop trying, stop thinking about it just do something else more rewarding. If I somehow get a girlfriend, fine. If I don't? Who cares? I won't if I stop caring.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Necris

[Nomad]

You know, I met a guy from my dating site who (to me, anyway) really wasn't that attractive. Not ugly, just not my cup of tea. But he was very confident and very much the Alpha male.

 

It should be mentioned that there's a HUGE difference between confidence and arrogance. The man was not arrogant.

 

We met and I found I enjoyed his company very much. He was successful, confident, highly intelligent, and knew what he wanted in life and where he was going. That's a very attractive trait in a man and I found myself becoming increasingly attracted to him the more I got to know him, even though I wasn't overly attracted to his looks. He became more attractive to me over time, but initially, it was his confidence and manner that drew me to him.

What prompted you to meet him in the first place (or even reply to his overture from the dating site) if you weren't interested in his looks?

[Nomad]

Dude, are you on drugs? No one gets good at anything without insane amounts of practice. Tiger Woods eats, breathes, sleeps golf. That's why he's better. Who wins in a 1v1 fighting match? The guy who lives, breathes, and sleeps fighting more than his opponent. The best musicians and artists? Yep, it's the ones who devote the most time to it.

Perhaps. But, keep in mind that Tiger Wood was also gifted with natural talent which he developed through practice. If there's no talent base to build upon, practice is probably not going to get you too far.

 

And plenty of guys don't need to "practice" picking up women: they do it effortlessly because they have a knack for it, they're good looking, or women just come on to them. Most people probably begin dating in high school. Sixteen-year-olds don't have "insane amounts of practice" in picking up women, and yet (some of them) are able to land girlfriends, get laid, etc.

 

If landing women took an "insane amount of practice" very much fewer guys would be in a relationship, and yet, most adults are in a relationship of some sort.

[Nomad]

There's nothing more unattractive than a man who is desperate for a relationship.

 

There was this one guy I worked with a few years ago. Had terrible rosacea, overweight, bald, ginger dude around 28. Just looked like the biggest dork. But the longer I worked with him, he just seemed to draw me in. And MAN he dated the hottest freaking women! Thing is, he always had stuff going on...was always going to a beer festival, or ski trip, or hiking a mountain. He was insanely adventurous - JUST FOR THE SAKE OF BEING ADVENTUROUS and ENJOYING life. Always excited about something, always passionate about his hobbies & trips. Whenever we'd be at a bar in a group, he'd never pay attention to the prettiest girls. The dude wasn't good looking, but he never came off as if he was TRYING to hook up with a girl, if he was talking to her he'd be fiddling on his phone every now and then, smiling slyly at whatever on the screen. You never felt like you had his full attention. And it was totally alluring.

That is an interesting story. I wonder how this guy even got the pretty girls talking to him in the first place, given his physical appearance. Nevertheless, we must face the fact that he is a statistical anomaly: most people who are overweight, bald, and with a skin condition, etc aren't going to be landing many women, especially "hot" ones.

 

I think I'm a pretty interesting guy (I'm well-read, I've done some traveling, etc), and it doesn't mean jack-sh*t with women.

 

Girls want to think they're COMPETING for your attention. If you don't care AT ALL, if you don't WANT us, we're like putty in your hands. Playing games? Sure. But attraction and dating are funny. Learn and know how to interact with women and eventually you'll have a girlfriend.

By that logic, girls in high school should have been swarming all over me because I showed no apparent interest in them.

[espec10001]

I'm definitely not saying he didn't practice, but practice doesn't create confidence, it is the results after practice that create the confidence. I can practice for a test or a sport but if I get my a** handed to me afterwards I won't feel confident. Its that feeling of triumphing over your opponents that get your confidence going, not being beaten. Confidence is that feeling that you know you can win. As for practice, practice can help confidence if you know the answers or you know your practice has given you abilities beyond your opponent but in dating you are playing a sport where there are no right answers, no rules, your victory is dependent on the whims of another.

 

As for the rest of your post you're right I need to stop caring, stop trying, stop thinking about it just do something else more rewarding. If I somehow get a girlfriend, fine. If I don't? Who cares? I won't if I stop caring.

 

Yeah, and if you get your ass handed to you after practicing, guess what? You gotta practice more! There is inherent talent in certain skills, but someone who is just naturally gifted at something but doesn't put in the work will be put to shame by someone who does. Natural talent is like a plant if you don't water it and give it sunlight on a regular basis, it won't grow to it's full potential. That's part of being a man, through determination and perseverance you can overcome someone who doesn't put in as much effort.

 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying women are bad or you should think of them as lesser people, but honestly relationships are not all sunshine and roses. There's ups and there are downs; the ups feel unbelievable but the downs can get get pretty brutal. That's why when you're with a special person it feels like nothing else exists in the world, and yet if they break up with you or leave you it feels like they ripped out your heart. Kind of like a roller coaster of emotions. As a man, you have an advantage in that your natural state is more moderate and even keeled; not swaying to extreme highs or extreme lows but finding a central balance.

[InJest]

Nomad, you're right. If you are ugly, broke, and boring, you won't have much dating success. You also won't have much success if you are trying to impress someone and make yourself sound interesting, instead of just talking naturally about yourself, which is a mistake a lot of people make. You should actually be interesting, and it will naturally show. Instead of sticking to one or two fringe interests, branch out and try new things. Instead of suggesting some lame, cliche date, suggest something that you have never done before. Taking a girl to dinner is nice, but there won't be a whole lot of interesting conversation since you don't know each other, and it will just feel weird being at a nice intimate restaurant with someone you hardly know. Instead do an activity, so there is something else to focus on. Even if its something you've never done before and you suck at it, it will give you both some laughs and she'll see you as a fun guy.

 

Reread my last couple posts in this thread, and try to twist you flawed logic to rebutt what I've said.

 

I really don't know though. You have a defeatist attitude, and it's obvious. Your interactions with women probably scream, "I don't deserve you", as I stated before.

[Nomad]

Nomad, you're right. If you are ugly, broke, and boring, you won't have much dating success. You also won't have much success if you are trying to impress someone and make yourself sound interesting, instead of just talking naturally about yourself, which is a mistake a lot of people make. You should actually be interesting, and it will naturally show. Instead of sticking to one or two fringe interests, branch out and try new things. Instead of suggesting some lame, cliche date, suggest something that you have never done before. Taking a girl to dinner is nice, but there won't be a whole lot of interesting conversation since you don't know each other, and it will just feel weird being at a nice intimate restaurant with someone you hardly know. Instead do an activity, so there is something else to focus on. Even if its something you've never done before and you suck at it, it will give you both some laughs and she'll see you as a fun guy.

 

Reread my last couple posts in this thread, and try to twist you flawed logic to rebutt what I've said.

I disagree that my logic is "flawed". You are missing the point that if a guy isn't attractive to a woman he's not even in the position of suggesting date locations! You yourself say that if a guy's ugly (among other things), he won't have much success with women. Well, I am ugly (and I would wager a bet that the OP'er is ugly, too).

 

And I've in fact had a number of perfectly pleasant dinner dates with women.

 

I really don't know though. You have a defeatist attitude, and it's obvious. Your interactions with women probably scream, "I don't deserve you", as I stated before.

Perhaps I do have a defeatist attitude. Probably because I've been thoroughly defeated by life in my 30+ years on this Earth. Finding nothing but rejection in life will do that to you.

[Necris]

Yeah, and if you get your ass handed to you after practicing, guess what? You gotta practice more! There is inherent talent in certain skills, but someone who is just naturally gifted at something but doesn't put in the work will be put to shame by someone who does. Natural talent is like a plant if you don't water it and give it sunlight on a regular basis, it won't grow to it's full potential. That's part of being a man, through determination and perseverance you can overcome someone who doesn't put in as much effort.

 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying women are bad or you should think of them as lesser people, but honestly relationships are not all sunshine and roses. There's ups and there are downs; the ups feel unbelievable but the downs can get get pretty brutal. That's why when you're with a special person it feels like nothing else exists in the world, and yet if they break up with you or leave you it feels like they ripped out your heart. Kind of like a roller coaster of emotions. As a man, you have an advantage in that your natural state is more moderate and even keeled; not swaying to extreme highs or extreme lows but finding a central balance.

 

Hold up first you're saying stop caring now you're saying practice more? Besides showing extreme determination to get the girl will probably just come off as extreme desperation. Also again my point still stands while you may want to practice more to get better practicing isn't going to raise your confidence is the eventual winning that gets that confidence going not all those losses.

 

As for practicing you can't really practice being more attractive to women it just doesn't work that way dating and relationships aren't like tests or sports there are no right answers or rules your success is entirely dependent on the whims of another, besides normal average guys don't have to do insane amounts of practicing to get a girlfriend it just happens for them if extreme practice was needed relationships would be a rare thing but instead its very common.

 

Anyway yeah stop caring, stop trying, and doing something else does seem like the thing that I should be doing.