Confidence is overrated

[InJest]

I disagree that my logic is "flawed". You are missing the point that if a guy isn't attractive to a woman he's not even in the position of suggesting date locations! You yourself say that if a guy's ugly (among other things), he won't have much success with women. Well, I am ugly (and I would wager a bet that the OP'er is ugly, too).

 

And I've in fact had a number of perfectly pleasant dinner dates with women.

 

 

Perhaps I do have a defeatist attitude. Probably because I've been thoroughly defeated by life in my 30+ years on this Earth. Finding nothing but rejection in life will do that to you.

 

There you go twisting. What I meant is, if you are ugly, in conjunction with other negative traits, then you won't have much of a shot, even though you can still get a girl even if you have 1 ratings across the board. If you're ugly, then you should rely more on your success in other areas. You have to have some attractive quality, whether it's your smarts, your career success, some other talent that you have. If you bring nothing to the table, then of course few or no people are going to want to date you.

 

Okay, so you have gotten dates before, so you're not too ugly, since some women have given you a chance. Problem is, you did exactly what I suggested against. You took a girl you don't know that well to dinner, where all you can really do is talk about yourself, and if that's not interesting then you're screwed. Women don't want 'perfectly pleasant' dates. Women want to have fun, and you should to. Anyone can be perfectly pleasant, all they have to do is not say much. What do you do for fun? What are your hobbies? What are your interests? What do you do for work?

[Nomad]

There you go twisting. What I meant is, if you are ugly, in conjunction with other negative traits, then you won't have much of a shot, even though you can still get a girl even if you have 1 ratings across the board. If you're ugly, then you should rely more on your success in other areas. You have to have some attractive quality, whether it's your smarts, your career success, some other talent that you have. If you bring nothing to the table, then of course few or no people are going to want to date you.

I'm not trying to "twist" what you're saying; I'm making an honest effort to engage in dialogue. But we have a fundamental disagreement: I don't believe that those other traits matter much in the absence of looks. If they did, then people would most strongly sort by how "interesting" they are, rather than how physically attractive they are.

 

Okay, so you have gotten dates before, so you're not too ugly, since some women have given you a chance. Problem is, you did exactly what I suggested against. You took a girl you don't know that well to dinner, where all you can really do is talk about yourself, and if that's not interesting then you're screwed.

Again, not true. I don't just talk about myself: I've showed great interest in some women's lives (and I've even been actually interested, in some cases ), but it makes no difference. And yes, while I have gotten some dates in my life, 1) they are few and far between, and 2) women don't show much interest in a second date, much less a relationship.

 

I would also suggest that most people go to a bar and/or restaurant on dates, and it doesn't seem to impede their ability to form a relationship.

[InJest]

I'm not trying to "twist" what you're saying; I'm making an honest effort to engage in dialogue. But we have a fundamental disagreement: I don't believe that those other traits matter much in the absence of looks. If they did, then people would most strongly sort by how "interesting" they are, rather than how physically attractive they are.

 

 

Again, not true. I don't just talk about myself: I've showed great interest in some women's lives (and I've even been actually interested, in some cases ), but it makes no difference. And yes, while I have gotten some dates in my life, 1) they are few and far between, and 2) women don't show much interest in a second date, much less a relationship.

 

I would also suggest that most people go to a bar and/or restaurant on dates, and it doesn't seem to impede their ability to form a relationship.

 

What I'm saying is that you're attractive enough for women to at least give you a shot. It doesn't matter how few and far between, you can't say that you are so ugly that no one would date you. You are still missing the point about dinner dates. Listening and being interested is good, but just talking to each other can still be boring, and it just gets awkward with a formal date like dinner because there's always expectations attached, perceived or real. Have you ever taken a girl on a fun date, where there was something to do besides talk?

 

You also answered zero of the questions I asked you, so I will ask again. What do you do for fun? What are your hobbies? What are your interests? What do you do for work?

[espec10001]

Perhaps. But, keep in mind that Tiger Wood was also gifted with natural talent which he developed through practice. If there's no talent base to build upon, practice is probably not going to get you too far.

 

And plenty of guys don't need to "practice" picking up women: they do it effortlessly because they have a knack for it, they're good looking, or women just come on to them. Most people probably begin dating in high school. Sixteen-year-olds don't have "insane amounts of practice" in picking up women, and yet (some of them) are able to land girlfriends, get laid, etc.

 

If landing women took an "insane amount of practice" very much fewer guys would be in a relationship, and yet, most adults are in a relationship of some sort.

 

I will agree in the case of Tiger Woods, but if he did not develop it and put in the time, natural talent means nothing. He's got to keep his game up or someone else with less inherent talent but wants it more will overtake him.

 

In terms of relationships, this can go either way. A good looking girl will attract more guys and the same goes for guys too. At a young age usually its more about physical attraction but as you get older other things about the person becomes just as important. You can differentiate between skills outside of dating and relationships and I think that is what the OP needs to focus more on, not dating but other things he can practice and get good at. Then he'll be in a better position to meet someone who's right for him.

[Nomad]

What I'm saying is that you're attractive enough for women to at least give you a shot. It doesn't matter how few and far between, you can't say that you are so ugly that no one would date you.

I'm attractive enough that women on occasion are willing to go on a date with me. And given that most of them were from women I met online, I half-believe that they just didn't check my height before meeting me, and were somewhat disappointed at how short I am (pure speculation, I know, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of it...)

 

You are still missing the point about dinner dates. Listening and being interested is good, but just talking to each other can still be boring, and it just gets awkward with a formal date like dinner because there's always expectations attached, perceived or real. Have you ever taken a girl on a fun date, where there was something to do besides talk?

I'm not "missing the point": I simply disagree. Actually, I'm a pretty shy/introverted person, and I've never had an awkward dinner and drinks date. I think it's a great way to get to know each other.

 

Yes, I have done non-dinner dates (at least once - and it was one of the women I never heard from again).

 

You also answered zero of the questions I asked you, so I will ask again. What do you do for fun? What are your hobbies? What are your interests? What do you do for work?

I didn't refrain from answering because I'm trying to ignore you: I refrained because I'd rather not give out that personal information on an internet forum (and I'm not trying to date you ).

[espec10001]

Hold up first you're saying stop caring now you're saying practice more? Besides showing extreme determination to get the girl will probably just come off as extreme desperation. Also again my point still stands while you may want to practice more to get better practicing isn't going to raise your confidence is the eventual winning that gets that confidence going not all those losses.

 

As for practicing you can't really practice being more attractive to women it just doesn't work that way dating and relationships aren't like tests or sports there are no right answers or rules your success is entirely dependent on the whims of another, besides normal average guys don't have to do insane amounts of practicing to get a girlfriend it just happens for them if extreme practice was needed relationships would be a rare thing but instead its very common.

 

Anyway yeah stop caring, stop trying, and doing something else does seem like the thing that I should be doing.

 

No, no. I'm not saying practice picking up girls, I'm saying practice something that has nothing to do with them. Give yourself more value, work on your strengths. No one is perfect, we all have our strengths and our weaknesses.

 

Don't listen to this alpha male bull****. FYI, alpha comes from Aleph, the first letter in the Hebrew ALPHAbet. Aleph (alpha) corresponds to air. There are "top dogs" in the male sphere, but the real alpha males are the likes of rulers, kings, leaders of countries, people who are in charge of whole nations or whose face is printed on money. THOSE are the "alpha" males; not someone you'll likely encounter or even be able to get close to anyway. Likening an alpha male to simply a man who has a lot of sex with different women is childish and immature.

 

I think your viewpoint about confidence and loses is somewhat a defeatist attitude, though. More practice = more confidence. The more you do something, the better you get at it. If you're good at something outside of dating, this is a selling point you can be proud of.

[threebyfate]

Well, I am ugly (and I would wager a bet that the OP'er is ugly, too).

 

And I've in fact had a number of perfectly pleasant dinner dates with women.

The OP fessed up in another thread that he's average looking. With this in mind and based on his beliefs that it's all about looks, he should be able to do better in the dating arena than you. For some strange reason, his logic doesn't hold true since you're dating and he's getting rejected. Nah, couldn't have anything to do with confidence, right?

[Nomad]

The OP fessed up in another thread that he's average looking. With this in mind and based on his beliefs that it's all about looks, he should be able to do better in the dating arena than you. For some strange reason, his logic doesn't hold true since you're dating and he's getting rejected. Nah, couldn't have anything to do with confidence, right?

I'm not dating. As I explained above, I have gotten a very limited number of dates in my life, but none of them turned into relationships (and most of them didn't even turn into a second date). I haven't had a date in years, actually (where it was unambiguously a date, and not merely going out with a member of the opposite sex).

 

And, I'm not denying that confidence may play a role in attraction. I just don't believe that it can overcome below-average looks.

[Hawaii50]

I just don't believe that it can overcome below-average looks.

 

Not with that attitude...

 

 

OP

Honestly... 100% serious. go to bar get drunk and talk to some guys there for some realworld advice, in reality. take this forum and shove it for now. You've been stuck since you got out the gate, and it's time to get moving. A lot of people have taken the time to help you, but you over analyzing or replying rhetorically isn't helping and is rather annoying to a lot us. I hesitate enter your threads, but I usually do because I'm sick find entertainment in weird stuff.

 

You don't heed advice, nor seemingly put your self out there enough for life to even happen.

 

And yeah.. I think your #1 problem is you're shooting too high, and I don't even know what you look like. But, you have a crappy personality, and I can't understand that. I've been in a friggin warzone since 08' and only get my wiener touched twice a year, on vacationships BUT I'm still the happiest go-lucky person on here, maybe annoyingly so.

 

You gotta be more positive, BECAUSE NEGATIVITY DOES NOTHING.

 

Go get drunk, embarrass yourself in front of some female strangers. who cares. But don't be negative. You might as well let everyone know you don't have a penis, cause they'll have the same exact response as your negativity.. they won't want anything to do with you.

[threebyfate]

I'm not dating. As I explained above, I have gotten a very limited number of dates in my life, but none of them turned into relationships (and most of them didn't even turn into a second date). I haven't had a date in years, actually (where it was unambiguously a date, and not merely going out with a member of the opposite sex).

 

And, I'm not denying that confidence may play a role in attraction. I just don't believe that it can overcome below-average looks.

This isn't logical. Had it been about your looks, why would they have dated you even once?

[Hawaii50]

This isn't logical. Had it been about your looks, why would they have dated you even once?

 

Point proven^^ he has a bad attitude a poor personality.

[threebyfate]

Point proven^^ he has a bad attitude a poor personality.

Don't know enough about this member to comment but it's not about his looks if they're willing to go on the first date. Something's off and pinning the issue on looks or anything that people can't help, gives them a free pass to not change whatever is turning women off.

[Hawaii50]

Don't know enough about this member to comment but it's not about his looks if they're willing to go on the first date. Something's off and pinning the issue on looks or anything that people can't help, gives them a free pass to not change whatever is turning women off.

 

You're 100% correct, they're dating him.. just not long. Bam, analytically troubleshot that to hell. You're a smart, Lady, yet again.

 

I did just notice a post about asbergers* syndrome, and depending on the severity of his case can effect him a lot... but I'm pretty sure he's playing that card too.

[Nomad]

This isn't logical. Had it been about your looks, why would they have dated you even once?

As I noted above, most of my dates in my life have been from women I've met online, and I suspect that not all of them realize how short I am until they meet me in person (even though it was posted on my profile). Again, though, this is pure speculation on my part.

 

Secondly, while my looks may not have been at issue with the tiny handful of women who have gone on a date with me, they most likely were an issue with the far, far greater number of women who never went on a date with me, either because they rejected me, or because they simply showed no interest in me whatsoever. From the fact that I have gotten a few dates in my life, it doesn't follow that I'm not unattractive or that (most) women find my looks repugnant.

[Nomad]

You're 100% correct, they're dating him.. just not long. Bam, analytically troubleshot that to hell. You're a smart, Lady, yet again.

 

I did just notice a post about asbergers* syndrome, and depending on the severity of his case can effect him a lot... but I'm pretty sure he's playing that card too.

You clearly have amazing powers. Not only can you assess what's wrong with my attitude, you can diagnosis me with neurodevelopmental disorders over the internet! Surely your talents are wasted here?

[threebyfate]

As I noted above, most of my dates in my life have been from women I've met online, and I suspect that not all of them realize how short I am until they meet me in person (even though it was posted on my profile). Again, though, this is pure speculation on my part.

Do you not disclose your height in your online profile?

[Nomad]

Not with that attitude...

No, not with any attitude.

[Nomad]

Do you not disclose your height in your online profile?

Yes, I said it was posted. Doesn't mean that all women necessarily check it. I have no idea, though: maybe it's the first thing women look at in a profile.

[Hawaii50]

You clearly have amazing powers. Not only can you assess what's wrong with my attitude, you can diagnosis me with neurodevelopmental disorders over the internet! Surely your talents are wasted here?

 

I concur, but I do it for the warm~n~fuzzies.

 

 

I've just known a handful of people who have asbergers*, and some of those rationalize acting however they want, on their disease.. is all. Even play into it when they get emotional etc..

[threebyfate]

Yes, I said it was posted. Doesn't mean that all women necessarily check it. I have no idea, though: maybe it's the first thing women look at in a profile.

According to people who use the online dating venues regularly, they won't even get matched if height is an issue.

[Hawaii50]

Yes, I said it was posted. Doesn't mean that all women necessarily check it. I have no idea, though: maybe it's the first thing women look at in a profile.

 

From now on, before you meet someone, with in the first few communications make sure they know that you come a in smaller package. For your own time and sanctity.

[ThaWholigan]

As I said recently, the amount of energy people dispel denouncing confidence, they could actually start building it up. But no......

[threebyfate]

So, if it's not looks or height, what might it be?

[Necris]

Not with that attitude...

 

 

OP

Honestly... 100% serious. go to bar get drunk and talk to some guys there for some realworld advice, in reality. take this forum and shove it for now. You've been stuck since you got out the gate, and it's time to get moving. A lot of people have taken the time to help you, but you over analyzing or replying rhetorically isn't helping and is rather annoying to a lot us. I hesitate enter your threads, but I usually do because I'm sick find entertainment in weird stuff.

 

You don't heed advice, nor seemingly put your self out there enough for life to even happen.

 

And yeah.. I think your #1 problem is you're shooting too high, and I don't even know what you look like. But, you have a crappy personality, and I can't understand that. I've been in a friggin warzone since 08' and only get my wiener touched twice a year, on vacationships BUT I'm still the happiest go-lucky person on here, maybe annoyingly so.

 

You gotta be more positive, BECAUSE NEGATIVITY DOES NOTHING.

 

Go get drunk, embarrass yourself in front of some female strangers. who cares. But don't be negative. You might as well let everyone know you don't have a penis, cause they'll have the same exact response as your negativity.. they won't want anything to do with you.

 

I'm actually not negative in public I try to be the cool funny guy when around women and friends, this forum is just a place to vent my frustrations. I'm not looking for sex or anything like that but I do want to be capable of dating, and perhaps one day get a girlfriend. The best thing for me to do right now though is to just forget about all that and just stop caring and do something else.

 

I also abhor drinking its not that I think its evil, but it does seem to cause more issues than is solves in people, besides alcohol tastes terrible to me, and I'm not the club, bar, party kind of guy. I prefer other venues not as loud and crazy.

[Nomad]

According to people who use the online dating venues regularly, they won't even get matched if height is an issue.

The OLD sites I used don't automatically match people.