Feel like there is no hope left

[somedude81]

Do you play the game "Fallout"?

I played Fallout 3.

 

*Waits to see how this is connected*

[ThaWholigan]

I played Fallout 3.

 

*Waits to see how this is connected*

Great f*cking game that. And the Vegas one too. Was hooked on both, and I'm certainly not much of a gamer nowadays. I digress......

 

Do you remember the vast amount of attributes that were meant to be improved? And how they were done? Some of them were in side-quests?

 

Well, real-life in some ways is just like that. I look at life like Fallout in a way. I have a series of things I'm good at, things I'm OK at, things I'm terrible at. And I can choose to improve upon those things, should they benefit my survival, my progression, my mission.

 

I'm reminded of the Bartering & Speech parts, which were the ones I neglected on the game in the beginning because I liked to shoot first, talk later at times. But those are important skills in the game. They're very important in real life too. And you up them every where you talk to people. Don't treat it as the quest - especially with girls. Treat it like the side-quest. It becomes easier to deal with, almost quicker even to up your skills that way.

 

Just like lockpicking. And you could also use books to up your game too - information of all kinds can help in any given instance, but of course action will get you forward. The results don't matter. Because just like in Fallout, you can start again and go talk to somebody else.

[Els]

But don't try to lockpick IRL. For realz.

[Els]

Just want to stop and say that I'm reading everything.

 

Right now I'm trying to get myself noticed by the girls. It is going to definitely require me to become more outgoing.

 

Also there are four girls I want to get to know better and two of them are close friends with each other. Not sure how I can work that out.

 

You can get to know then in group settings, but when it comes time to ask one out, you should not ask her friend if she says no. So you'd have to pick when the time comes.

[BubblyBeth]

SD,

Beth with Meeks here. We feel saddened to read through this thread together, but we're also not shocked. You seem to be repeating the same life cycle and mistakes over and over again. Making mistakes aren't the issue here. After all, we learn from our failures.

 

Or, at least we SHOULD.

 

Your problem is you've been too narrow-minded for far too long now... that you simply don't know how to approach life any other way. It's unhealthy, and you are only hurting yourself in the short and long run.

 

There is nothing any of us here can say to help you make a change. It's going to have to be an internal switch that goes on for you at some point after a real life experience. Right now, as Meeks just said to me, all you're doing is adding to your mental masturbation and that constant single-minded overly obsessive goal of yours to get a GF is only ACTUALLY hurting your chances greatly of getting one.

 

You are too analytical, and too down on yourself.

 

If you keep this up, you will not find a girl who will want to be your girlfriend, ever. Take it from me... I know about these things and how girls think. You may claim all you want that you can 'mask' your lack of self-confidence in real life but trust me, we ladies can sense it soon enough. The mind is a powerful thing...

 

Good luck, SD.

We are sad to see this thread, and hope to read a "success thread" from you in the near future. However, to be realistic, a success thread from you won't happen unless you start making some key changes in your life and in your ways of thinking/operating. Because what you've been trying thus far since 13 years old has not served you well -- AT ALL.

 

Again, making mistakes is not the issue.

 

The issue is NOT learning from one's mistakes and making the necessary strategy changes for success.

 

Good luck, SD.

 

PS- If you had all these LS people rooting for you here IN REAL LIFE, how much better off would you be. I'm not saying US specifically, but people like us. Who support you and offer you an ear.

 

I know it's scary, and not easy, but having some real life people you can call up and say "Hey man, here's my situation..." is often times so huge. You don't have to hang out with that person on a weekly basis, but it's nice to have a few people you can truly be vulnerable with, and they can just listen and be there for you. Do you even have one person that you can call on in a pinch to listen to you?

 

It helps tremendously, trust me. It goes back to Maslow's hierarchy, and how we all want love and to be loved. Remember, love doesn't have to be opposite sex nor physical.

 

It seems you're so isolated and you just use LS in a way that is not very healthy. We're all rooting for you but truth is only you can dictate which direction your life heads in.

[Tiera D]

have you considered plastic surgery OP ,not to say your ugly (i never seen your face before) .. since you believe appearance is so important and your character cannot be changed much at this point? just saying..

 

TD

[somedude81]

SD,

Beth with Meeks here. We feel saddened to read through this thread together, but we're also not shocked. You seem to be repeating the same life cycle and mistakes over and over again. Making mistakes aren't the issue here. After all, we learn from our failures.

It feels that I've made the same mistakes so many times, I can no longer tell what the mistakes actually are.

 

All I'm doing is playing this stupid game of chance. Maybe she'll like me, maybe she won't. The only control I have of the game and it's outcome is if I want to play or not. I put in my chips and see what happens. So far the house always wins. The fact that I don't even fully understand how to even play the game doesn't help. I'm also stuck with a sh*tty game piece.

have you considered plastic surgery OP ,not to say your ugly (i never seen your face before) .. since you believe appearance is so important and your character cannot be changed much at this point? just saying..

 

TD

Plastic surgery won't change anything. The only cosmetic surgery that would have any effect is making me 4 or more inches taller. At least then I'd be average height.

 

I'm not saying I'm very good looking, but plastic surgery is more effective when it it can turn an ugly face into normal. Turning average into handsome is more difficult. Last thing I want to do is end up looking like Michael Jackson.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with my character. The problem is that when I'm around girls, I'm basically sexually retarded. I don't have a clue what to do or say that would let them start liking me.

 

To put it more eloquently.

 

When I'm around women, I don't know what the fu*k I'm doing.

[iris219]

It feels that I've made the same mistakes so many times, I can no longer tell what the mistakes actually are.

 

You've been told over and over again what you need to do differently, but you don't want to hear it or try it.

 

You got mad at me when I said you weren't doing anything to get dates, meaning you aren't doing anything that is going to work.

 

Look back at past threads you've made and will see where people have told what you're doing wrong (i.e, what has a very slim chance of working) and what you need to be doing.

[somedude81]

You've been told over and over again what you need to do differently, but you don't want to hear it or try it.

 

You got mad at me when I said you weren't doing anything to get dates, meaning you aren't doing anything that is going to work.

 

Look back at past threads you've made and will see where people have told what you're doing wrong (i.e, what has a very slim chance of working) and what you need to be doing.

Meeting more girls, trying to make make friends, etc, etc isn't going to change anything for me.

[iris219]

Meeting more girls, trying to make make friends, etc, etc isn't going to change anything for me.

 

Why wouldn't it?

[Anela]

I saw someone mention a woman inviting you to a group dance? I need to reread, but I could have sworn I saw that. She might have been trying to set you up with someone.

[somedude81]

Why wouldn't it?

The last part of post #66 covers what my problem is.

 

None of those things would help that.

I saw someone mention a woman inviting you to a group dance? I need to reread, but I could have sworn I saw that. She might have been trying to set you up with someone.

One person misread and said something then another heard that and passed on it. That's how rumors start.

 

No, I've never been invited to a group dance. If that ever happened I would go.

 

What really happened, one of the women in a salsa class I crash sometimes, expressed an interest in going dancing with me. I put together the plans for us to go out dancing one night, just the two of us. Later I find out that she is married. For some reason she still wants to go out. Not wanting to be direct and tell her "no, I don't want to go out with you because you are married," I suggest that we go with some people in the class.

 

That still places all the burden of trying to organize a class outing on me. Even then we aren't even in the same salsa class. If I were to put together an event, it would be one with the people from my class.

[iris219]

 

When I'm around women, I don't know what the fu*k I'm doing.

 

1. Widening your social circle will help you in many, many ways (which have already been outlined for you).

 

2. It wouldn’t matter if you were the most suave dude around. You are setting yourself up to fail by only interacting with very young girls. A 20 year old college girl has no interest in a 31 year old man who's still in college. We’ve explained to you before why a young girl might be willing to date an older guy. There are very few of these girls around and you fill none of the criteria they are looking for in an older man.

 

3. It doesn’t really matter if you know what you are doing or not. Honestly, there's not much to do. I've liked several guys who were quiet and awkward, and I've had to take the reins. When a girl likes you, she helps you out. It’s not your job to somehow convince her to go out with you or make her like you. When there's mutual interest, it all becomes surprisingly easy. I'm sure some guys on here will disagree, but there's no magical way to create this mutual interest. It happens when two people meet, are attracted to each other, and find each other interesting. That's it.

[Mrlonelyone]

Reading your posting I get what you wanted out of it. You wanted people to just listen and understand what you are feeling.

 

I do. I have felt just what you have felt from time to time.

 

You kind of wish the part of you that even wants a relationship would just realize it isn't going to happen and stop bothering you. Sometimes so do I.

 

What is the point of feeling loving feelings if other people are just going to write you off without even a single date? Or in my case, use me to satisfy their curiosities or fantasies about being with someone like me etc (Which I assure you is not a good experience no matter the gender of the person doing that to one.)

[Mrlonelyone]

Listen to this song and read this because as sappy as it is there is a mathematical 100% probability this is true*.

 

 

There is some woman out there, perhaps not even in the same country or continent right now who is wishing to meet you, and will meet you, but dosen't know it yet. The "game" really is about finding those people...sifting through all the people who will write you off, and people you will write off.

 

Think of my father. He met my mother when he was 30. They did not marry until ten years latter. They are now married for 30+ years. He got me and my little sister out of it. He had to go through 10 years of drama with her, not to mention the women who he had before her to get to someone who would take care of him when he was old and blinded.

 

 

* Proof: With 6 to 7 Billion humans and 3-3.5 Billion biological women on earth if there is a 0.0000001% chance one will like you that means there are at least 3 such women in the whole world. To find them you will have to go through allot of it not working out. I am probably being overly pessimistic too.

[somedude81]

1. Widening your social circle will help you in many, many ways (which have already been outlined for you).

Widening it is more difficult than it sounds.

 

2. It wouldn’t matter if you were the most suave dude around. You are setting yourself up to fail by only interacting with very young girls. A 20 year old college girl has no interest in a 31 year old man who's still in college. We’ve explained to you before why a young girl might be willing to date an older guy. There are very few of these girls around and you fill none of the criteria they are looking for in an older man.

I really don't care.

 

Age is something that just never crosses my mind. My age is irrelevant to me.

3. It doesn’t really matter if you know what you are doing or not. Honestly, there's not much to do.

Lady, if that was the case, I would have gotten a girlfriend many years ago.

I've liked several guys who were quiet and awkward, and I've had to take the reins. When a girl likes you, she helps you out.

I'm well aware of the concept.

 

Problem is, I've never had the luck for a girl to like me me just because.

 

If a guy doesn't know how to talk to and flirt with girls, luck is the only way something will happen.

 

It’s not your job to somehow convince her to go out with you or make her like you. When there's mutual interest, it all becomes surprisingly easy. I'm sure some guys on here will disagree, but there's no magical way to create this mutual interest. It happens when two people meet, are attracted to each other, and find each other interesting. That's it.

It's just not that simple.

 

From my understanding, by default, women are not interested in most guys. They just aren't. So men need to convince the women otherwise. That's why the concepts of wooing, courting and seduction exist. To open up the frigid woman.

 

Yes there are lucky guys who are blessed with very good looks and they don't have to do anything to get women. Some other guys get lucky and women like them for one reason or another. Everybody else needs to go hunting if they hope to get a woman.

[iris219]

Widening it is more difficult than it sounds.

 

I agree. It is difficult. I like that you didn't shoot down the idea though.

 

I really don't care.

 

Age is something that just never crosses my mind. My age is irrelevant to me.

 

It doesn't matter if YOU care. A young girl will care. Age is not irrelevant to them.

 

Here's an anecdote to illustrate what I mean: I was having dinner the other night with my friend and her 19 year old daughter. The waiter was very flirty. We started teasing her daughter about the waiter liking her and she responded by looking at us like we were crazy and replying, "Eww, gross, he's like 40 :sick:" He was probably 27. And very good looking. Anything over 24 is old to a young college student.

 

From my understanding, by default, women are not interested in most guys. They just aren't. So men need to convince the women otherwise. That's why the concepts of wooing, courting and seduction exist. To open up the frigid woman.

 

Granted, many women don't look at strange men and want to f-- them. It CAN happen, but generally we need an emotional connection. So, yes, you will have to have a personality that we like on top of us finding you attractive.

 

Women are not, by and large, frigid. The courting thing is done in order for two people to get to know each. It's also done to prove that the man wants that one girl, rather than lots of other women. You shouldn't be convincing a woman to like you. It doesn't work that way. One has to like you than you work on convincing her you aren't going to hurt her by just being after sex or by sleeping with others while you're with her or by being a douche in other ways.

Edited November 4, 2012 by iris219

[BubblyBeth]

It doesn't matter if YOU care. A young girl will care. Age is not irrelevant to them.

 

100% correct.

 

SD, you may not care, but reality is, girls DO. And to cast that aside would be foolish. By going after girls in their early 20s, you are basically not even giving yourself a realistic shot, being 31, admittedly socially awkward (you've admitted this many times before), still in college and not yet with a blooming career. It just won't happen.

 

It seems you are quick to shoot down any idea that will increase your % of success by however little. Maybe it's time to consider joining an online dating site and looking for girls closer to your age and life experience.

[somedude81]

What is the point of telling me that young women will not be interested in me?

 

Seriously?

 

Do you guys think I need more discouragement in my life? That I don't think things are hopeless enough already?

 

I'm not saying I want to be patronized, that all the young girls are going to love me, but if you only have negative things to tell me, then keep it to yourselves.

[Mrlonelyone]

What is the point of telling me that young women will not be interested in me?

 

Seriously?

 

Do you guys think I need more discouragement in my life? That I don't think things are hopeless enough already?

 

I'm not saying I want to be patronized, that all the young girls are going to love me, but if you only have negative things to tell me, then keep it to yourselves.

 

What they say is only partly true. Some young women will think an older man is nasty and pervy for wanting to be with them. They aren't for you, and honestly if they think that they are probably so immature you would feel pervy for liking them.

 

Read this whenever a college age woman thinks a man your age is undateable and consider the source of the rejection (not in a bitter way though).

 

The #1 Dating Mistake College Girls Make | The College Crush

 

What Older Guys Really Think About Dating College Girls | Her Campus

 

Many younger women will think a 31 year old is about perfect for them. They will see someone who has their $hit way more together. They will see someone who knows the value of pleasing a woman in bed etc. All things being equal they will see that your age is an advantage to them compared to younger men.

 

Think of it this way. Your competition is people who are just like you but younger, stupider and broker.

[Imajerk17]

As someone who was horrible with women for ABOUT ALL of this entire 20's and who is having more than his fair share of success with women now, I feel the need to chime in again.

 

(1) I've taken issue with the "make friends first" advice because I feel that it misses some things. How exactly do you do that anyway? Ask random people in your environment to hang out?? Become a Nice Guy Mr Rogers and tell everyone It's A Beautiful Day In The Neighborhood? Beth, look at that advice from SD's perspective and why he rejects it. He's been "making friends" with women for a long long time already!

 

I can see where that advice comes from though--a guy whom others want to be friends with is typically a guy women want to date, and a guy no one wants to be friends with is typically a guy who can't get women interested. That said though, I do think it would be better for any guy who wants to become better with women to instead focusing on developing a more attractive personality and lifestyle. This is what makes you a cool attractive guy. And yes, SD, this comes BEFORE getting a girlfriend (sorry). Asking a girl out who isn't into you is as lame as asking dudes who don't like you to hang out.

 

If you have an attractive personality though, you will know that by how others treat you and girls will be friendly to you (NOT to be confused with the Friend Zone). And then when the right girl comes along, you will attract her. The $100,000 question is, how do you develop a more attractive personality and lifestyle. I have some ideas but meanwhile I'd like you to think about this.

 

 

(2) SD, I think the "younger women don't go for guys your age" was partially meant for you to not take rejection so personally. One big reason why that girl ignored you to talk to the other guy is that he is probably much closer in age to her. So don't take it as necessarily a referendum on your personality.

 

Beth/Meeks and others, I would be interested in your thoughts on this.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Imajerk17

[iris219]

What is the point of telling me that young women will not be interested in me?

 

Seriously?

 

Do you guys think I need more discouragement in my life? That I don't think things are hopeless enough already?

 

I'm not saying I want to be patronized, that all the young girls are going to love me, but if you only have negative things to tell me, then keep it to yourselves.

 

We're not trying to be negative or discouraging. We're being honest and realistic. It's painful to hear you trying the same things over and over, when it's obvious to us why it's not working.

 

So what if one subset of women won’t date you? What do you have against maximizing your chances by talking to older women?

 

 

What they say is only partly true. Some young women will think an older man is nasty and pervy for wanting to be with them. They aren't for you, and honestly if they think that they are probably so immature you would feel pervy for liking them.

 

Read this whenever a college age woman thinks a man your age is undateable and consider the source of the rejection (not in a bitter way though).

 

The #1 Dating Mistake College Girls Make | The College Crush

 

What Older Guys Really Think About Dating College Girls | Her Campus

 

Many younger women will think a 31 year old is about perfect for them. They will see someone who has their $hit way more together. They will see someone who knows the value of pleasing a woman in bed etc. All things being equal they will see that your age is an advantage to them compared to younger men.

 

Think of it this way. Your competition is people who are just like you but younger, stupider and broker.

 

The second article was amusing when it quoted a couple of “older” men, ages 23 and 24.

 

I do not disagree that some older men will be attractive to young women. I dated older men when I was in college. They were done with school, had good careers, and I saw them as mature and sophisticated. Some young women will date older men who have what young college guys lack—status, money, stability, excitement, life experience, etc. I will say that I was in the minority though. My friends thought I was weird for liking older men.

 

2) SD, I think the "younger women don't go for guys your age" was partially meant for you to not take rejection so personally. One big reason why that girl ignored you to talk to the other guy is that he is probably much closer in age to her. So don't take it as necessarily a referendum on your personality.

 

Absolutely. This is a great way to put it.

[Mrlonelyone]

If you have an attractive personality though, you will know that by how others treat you and girls will be friendly to you (NOT to be confused with the Friend Zone). And then when the right girl comes along, you will attract her. The $100,000 question is, how do you develop a more attractive personality and lifestyle. I have some ideas but meanwhile I'd like you to think about this.

 

Friendzone: Someone you have never or almost never met and have no connection to says they want to be friends. Friendzone.

 

Real friend: Someone you know through your developed social networks (School, work, hobbies, hangout spots etc.) wants to hang out with you, and shares a non sexual* friendly level of intimacy.

 

In the "friendzone" that person has looked at and rejected you. While genuine friendship has real intimacy. You share real interest and feelings etc.

 

*At least at first.

 

 

The second article was amusing when it quoted a couple of “older” men, ages 23 and 24.

 

I do not disagree that some older men will be attractive to young women. I dated older men when I was in college. They were done with school, had good careers, and I saw them as mature and sophisticated. Some young women will date older men who have what young college guys lack—status, money, stability, excitement, life experience, etc. I will say that I was in the minority though.

 

Yeah me too. 23 and 24 are hardly "older". To me the older people who might date a younger woman are MS and PHd students, post docs and younger faculty (people in their late 20's or early 30's who are instructors or even profs.) We get a thread here and there about just that. Sumdude will fit somewhere in that if he has some good life experience.

 

I have been with older men and women at times. Younger people are often confused about what good lovin and good livin really are.

 

My friends thought I was weird for liking older men.

 

Yeah, that's why sumdude needs to focus on women mature enough to know that their friends opinions shouldn't dictate who they date...most of the time anyway.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Mrlonelyone

[Anela]

What is the point of telling me that young women will not be interested in me?

 

Seriously?

 

Do you guys think I need more discouragement in my life? That I don't think things are hopeless enough already?

 

I'm not saying I want to be patronized, that all the young girls are going to love me, but if you only have negative things to tell me, then keep it to yourselves.

 

I was empathizing with you here, until I saw that you'd called women like me "frigid."

 

I'm feeling at the end of my rope, too, but I'm supposed to keep your hope alive, for a young college student to love you, and you say things like that about women? Try women your own age!

[Pirouette]

If you have an attractive personality though, you will know that by how others treat you and girls will be friendly to you (NOT to be confused with the Friend Zone). And then when the right girl comes along, you will attract her. The $100,000 question is, how do you develop a more attractive personality and lifestyle. I have some ideas but meanwhile I'd like you to think about this.

 

Beth/Meeks and others, I would be interested in your thoughts on this.

 

On the age thing not being personal? In general absolutely, as age obviously isn't a personal factor you can control, and doesn't reflect anything about one's personality. But specifically, if I were 20 again, and I found out that a 30+ year old person was hitting on me knowing that I was 20, I would be turned off by that and I would wonder why they aren't interested in someone their own age. There should be a difference in the mindset between a 20 and 30 year old, and if there isn't I would question why and probably not be attracted to the answers.

 

As for the developing an attractive personality and lifestyle, again I absolutely agree. Several of us delved into it at the end of the dating/sex thread that somedude posted before, but didn't receive any response.

 

These were the qualities that I suggested were considered almost universally attractive by men and women. Intelligence and wit. Passion. Humour. Generosity. Strength, of will and of body. Self-awareness. Social intelligence. Class. Power and mastery. So if one can demonstrate any one, or more, of these qualities to a great degree, someone is likely to find you attractive, providing you don't have overwhelming negatives.