I can believe it

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

And thus the main problem with my situation littleflowerpot. How bad DO I feel for this? If I don't feel that bad, why not?

 

I may sound emotionally distant but in person I'm not. Anyone who could hear me ranting when I first found this forum could at least recognize my hurt. I don't think I need therapy. I'm not sure if that falls under "denial" but I'm pretty in tune with reality, and I'm not destructive.

 

I certainly don't like being rejected, or hurt-I am certainly going to handle this MUCH differently than I did the last time. There is no unf*cking.

 

I would feel AWFUL for his SO and children. But I would completely deny it.

 

why don't you feel bad? i don't know, hon. if you were looking in from the outside, what would you think of another woman who said she messed around with a married man although it could cause his wife and children a buttload of pain? and all because it was fun? does that sound rational to you?

 

i don't think you are a bad person and i don't mean to sound patronizing but i truly believe you are deeply in need of therapy. you have admitted you don't understand why you are in this relationship except that it's fun. i'm sure you are in tune with reality and i in no way meant to imply that you are delusional but all of us can get confused and hung up on emotional issues we don't understand. as for what you are doing being destructive, i don't see how you can say this isn't. it is destructive for his wife. it is destructive for his children. it is even destructive for him. most of all and what should concern you a lot is how destructive it is for you. you simply can't say you aren't hurting anyone. and for what? for a bit of fun? single men can give you the same fun and you don't have to fall in love with them either if you don't want to be in love. at least with single men, you are not hurting their SO or children if they have them.

 

so i'm saying if you want sex without love, go for it! i see no problem with that (and i've been known to have a few flings with friends based on fun and friendship).

 

but i still get the feeling you are emotionally distant because you are afraid to be hurt. when i say emotionally distant i mean you choose to be in relationships with people that you don't care for and you like it that way. that way, there is no danger of being hurt.

[HoldOn]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I'm still looking for the single, attractive man that makes it click in my headspace...

 

Are you really? Seems like you are spending a lot of time and energy on this attached man... HOW are you looking for a single man? I mean, are you taking any steps to find him?

 

someone define "emotionally distant" for me please.

 

Meaning that you have a physical relationship with someone you don't love. YOu are also putting this loveless relationship above everything else. It's so important to you that you don't care about the kids and the real woman in his life.

 

I don't think I need therapy.

 

Then why did you mention it? You said it was too bad that therapy is so expensive. You are obviously in a pattern of falling for unavailable men. Is this a good thing that you want to keep doing forever?

[Mr Spock]

I can't be too cerebral I had to go look up how to use it in a sentence. Then again, I did only manage 3 hours of sleep before pulling a day shift. I have an incredibly low brow sense of humour-humour is a BIG thing with me. It's very attractive. And I'm loud, fairly obnoxious as some of you have found out-I'm attracted to like minds I suppose.

 

I don't think I'm deeply in need of therapy-but I thank you for your concern....it does help everyone to talk about things. I don't believe I have any more deep seated emotional issues then the next person...

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by HoldOn

Are you really? Seems like you are spending a lot of time and energy on this attached man... HOW are you looking for a single man? I mean, are you taking any steps to find him?

 

 

 

Meaning that you have a physical relationship with someone you don't love. YOu are also putting this loveless relationship above everything else. It's so important to you that you don't care about the kids and the real woman in his life.

 

 

 

Then why did you mention it? You said it was too bad that therapy is so expensive. You are obviously in a pattern of falling for unavailable men. Is this a good thing that you want to keep doing forever?

 

I am always on the lookout hold on.

 

And I didn't mention it. Moimeme did. I never said it it was too bad it was so expensive, I asked who can afford it?

[Olivia_19742004]

Well then..what are you going to do about your little fascination with unavailable men?

[kkat]

Spock,

 

You clearly have a heart - and one that is hurting. That's why you are posting on here. Do you agree with that?

 

If so, are you hurting because this man, like the one before, isn't available? If not, what do you think could be causing your pain? Any ideas at all?

 

Would you agree that you've gotten into two painful relationships, with a common thread - the men are unavailable? Would you like to break the pattern? Why or why not?

 

I know the help I have gotten on LS and from therapy has gotten me a long way. I understand you're not as messed up as I am/was - but back in January I literally couldn't get myself up and showered I was such a mess over my MM situation. I'm not out of the woods yet but I see the clearing many days and am hiking towards it. Can I help you in some way?

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I can't be too cerebral I had to go look up how to use it in a sentence. Then again, I did only manage 3 hours of sleep before pulling a day shift. I have an incredibly low brow sense of humour-humour is a BIG thing with me. It's very attractive. And I'm loud, fairly obnoxious as some of you have found out-I'm attracted to like minds I suppose.

 

I don't think I'm deeply in need of therapy-but I thank you for your concern....it does help everyone to talk about things. I don't believe I have any more deep seated emotional issues then the next person...

 

well, i didn't mean to offend you. for myself, i am a very sane person but i recognized some patterns in myself that caused me concern. i think you might also have a negative view of therapy because maybe you think only people that are really messed up need it.

 

bottom line: why are you resistant to letting go of a relationship that has no meaning for you other than fun in light of the fact that it may deeply hurt other people? you say you are a nice person but is that what a good person would do?

[Olivia_19742004]

Is she really hurting in this instance? I don't know the story before with the first relationship but it certainly doesn't appear like she posted because she's hurting. Seems more like a "Here I am again..why do I do this?" post. I don't see a lot of emotion behind this discussion and it seems the focus is more on why she creates these types of situations in her life as opposed to being depressed because she's having feelings for an unavailable man.

 

I think this is more introspective and less of a "how to mend my broken heart" conversation.

[Mr Spock]

Am I hurting? I was, but I'm not sure if I am. Out of sight, out of mind so to speak.

 

My "little fascination" has little to with unavailable and all to do with the individual. Single, married, regardless.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by littleflowerpot

well, i didn't mean to offend you. for myself, i am a very sane person but i recognized some patterns in myself that caused me concern. i think you might also have a negative view of therapy because maybe you think only people that are really messed up need it.

 

bottom line: why are you resistant to letting go of a relationship that has no meaning for you other than fun in light of the fact that it may deeply hurt other people? you say you are a nice person but is that what a good person would do?

 

Oh not offended in the slightest!! Please don't think so. I can be surly, but not at ALL in this instance!! As for your last question, I don't know if I can answer that. I try to do what is right. But I don't manage to do it, all of the time.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Oh not offended in the slightest!! Please don't think so. I can be surly, but not at ALL in this instance!! As for your last question, I don't know if I can answer that. I try to do what is right. But I don't manage to do it, all of the time.

 

i'm glad you weren't offended because i never meant to offend.

 

however....LOL....if you know what you are doing is wrong and it would cause you absolutely no pain at all to end it, why don't you just end it? shouldn't you think a little bit more about his wife and kids? especially as you have no emotional stuff to confuse the issues?

 

basically i guess i'm saying i think what you are doing is wrong and for all the wrong reasons and i think you should end it because it could hurt his SO and kids in an unbelievably painful way and for such an invalid reason (because it's fun for you). would it be fun to hurt them? i think you are a person with a good heart and i don't think it will be so fun for you if they find out and you cause them untold grief for selfish reasons. i think then you will be in terrible pain for doing that and i think it would be much smarter for you to prevent that at all costs.

[kkat]

OK I see what you mean - maybe she's not in the achy breaky broken heart club - I was projecting a bit. Sorry Spock.

[sinner]

Sometimes, Spock, a pen is just a pen. We have to be careful not to medicalize (is that a word?) behavior we consider inappropriate --especially for a female. You're like the female Terminator: appeals to your conscience and rational self-interest are wasted. If you fancy a man, and he likes you, let the games begin!

 

Spock, you are sexually aggressive. If someone tickles your fancy you hook up with him regardless of his relationship status and your own long term self-interest.

Your hedonism knows almost no limits.

 

What's unusual is not your behavior but your candor about behaving in ways that many would find both predatory and/or self-defeating in a middle class woman. When a lucid, smart, articulate middle class woman starts acting like many men would act, people assume she must be ill. I don't believe you're ill. You're acting selfishly, you're heedless of relationship boundaries and you're acting like a big time player. So do many, many men.

 

These supposedly committed men are doing the same thing as you. They're not ill, they're just being men. It's all about gender and behavior expectations, Spock.

 

You don't need therapy, Spock. You need lovers.

 

You're a girl who, at this stage of her life, just wants to have fun.

 

But you continue to post--as if LS was Confession. I'm afraid you won't obtain Absolution, here. This is a tough crowd.

 

What do you want from us?

[Bronzepen]

Hello Spock.

 

I am sorry to say this and I truelly hope that I am wrong but it seems like your destined to be unlucky in love for the rest of your life.

 

Let me explain.

 

From all your post you seem to be looking for "the one". But you will never know if the person your with is "the one" because you will always think that the next person might be better.

 

You are trying so hard to find "the one" that you have set no boundaries. So the person can me married, attached, with or without children.

 

You especially hold people that are attached as very good potentials because, as someone mentioned on this thread, you see them as possibly giving up everthing to be with you.

 

The thing is, even if the person gave up everything to be with you, that will not be enough because you will still wonder if they are not "the one" and there might be someone better out there

 

It's a vicious and never ending cycle.\

 

I hope I am wrong and you do find the one.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by sinner

Sometimes, Spock, a pen is just a pen. We have to be careful not to medicalize (is that a word?) behavior we consider inappropriate --especially for a female. You're like the female Terminator: appeals to your conscience and rational self-interest are wasted. If you fancy a man, and he likes you, let the games begin!

 

Spock, you are sexually aggressive. If someone tickles your fancy you hook up with him regardless of his relationship status and your own long term self-interest.

Your hedonism knows almost no limits.

 

What's unusual is not your behavior but your candor about behaving in ways that many would find both predatory and/or self-defeating in a middle class woman. When a lucid, smart, articulate middle class woman starts acting like many men would act, people assume she must be ill. I don't believe you're ill. You're acting selfishly, you're heedless of relationship boundaries and you're acting like a big time player. So do many, many men.

 

These supposedly committed men are doing the same thing as you. They're not ill, they're just being men. It's all about gender and behavior expectations, Spock.

 

You don't need therapy, Spock. You need lovers.

 

You're a girl who, at this stage of her life, just wants to have fun.

 

But you continue to post--as if LS was Confession. I'm afraid you won't obtain Absolution, here. This is a tough crowd.

 

What do you want from us?

 

if, as you say, she needs lovers and not help then maybe she could choose lovers that don't have families so as to not hurt other people needlessly.

 

also, i don't buy the boys will be boys argument. boys that use that excuse are selfish and behaving in ways that are hurtful to other people that love them and that is wrong.

 

no one said she was ill because we opined she might could use a bit of therapy.

[moimeme]

You need lovers

 

Yes, there are some people that believe that you should get every goodie you want, no matter who else it hurts. I have absolutely no respect for them because they have made it clear to the world that 'me' is the only thing they care about. Some people think that that sort of person is admirable - heaven only knows why. Oh, right - because unselfishness is a 'virtue' and Satan is anti 'virtue' because it cramps his style. After all, why bother about the effects of your actions on others as long as you get everything YOU want.

 

If you admire these sorts of people, Spock, and like certain individuals here, think they are worthy of cheering on, then there's your answer. Your moral compass has been plunked down near a magnet and has gotten pointed at 'me - first and only'. For whatever reason, you're getting yours and you feel no reason not to.

 

Could be you are totally without empathy. Could be that you have managed to successfully depersonalize every other human (meaning you refuse to think that they actually could be hurt as badly as you can be) or maybe you're a sociopath. But lack of remorse for doing stuff like this is not a sign of a healthy mind usually. Maybe you are totally self-destructive. It seems to me that might be the case because, no matter how much you want to persuade yourself you're having fun, what you are having is a series of shallow substitutes for a genuine relationship.

[sinner]

no one said she was ill because we opined she might could use a bit of therapy.

 

That's a distinction without a difference. If complete strangers tell me I need therapy, I would infer, reasonably at that, that they thought I was ill/dysfunctional/had problems, etc.

 

Sometimes a bad moral choice is just that: a bad moral choice--not an illness.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by sinner

That's a distinction without a difference. If complete strangers tell me I need therapy, I would infer, reasonably at that, that they thought I was ill/dysfunctional/had problems, etc.

 

Sometimes a bad moral choice is just that: a bad moral choice--not an illness.

 

we are not close personal friends but she has opened discussion with us about the nature of her relationship. i don't think we are quite the strangers off the street with no knowledge of her.

 

perhaps you believe that only deeply ill people benefit from therapy. not true.

 

here's a question for you: why do some people keep making bad moral choices? you don't think that just MIGHT be a problem?

[Mr Spock]

What do I want from LS? I'm not sure. I always enjoy reading other people's perspectives into situations-mine included. Feedback. Definetly feedback. I suppose I want to also see if there are others out there like me.

 

Sheesh Bronzepen, I hope you're wrong too!! I agree so much with Olivia's statements because I have had someone give it all away to be with me. It was an ultimate comittment. Now, even after two years I could call him back to me if I so wished. I'm not being vain, but I feel that I could.

 

I almost feel like I need to go boink a single person this week (or at least schmekle) and say "See!! See!! Look what I did!!"

 

 

Maybe I'm masochistic-I post my actions here LOOKING for disapproval. I know well enough not to expect anything else.

 

I'm not completely without lack of guilt. But it's entirely handleable. And it makes it easier to do that kind of thing. To me, sociopath suggests violent tendancies, and I have none of those. I don't deny my own culpability in this situation but I did not track this one down, club him, and drag him off to my bedroom. I never do.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I did not track this one down, club him, and drag him off to my bedroom. I never do.

 

no, but you are a party to his hurting other people and for completely selfish reasons.

 

and if you don't need help (therapy) to gain insight into your behavior, why on earth do you want a guy to want you so much that he's willing to risk it all for you when you don't even love him? you don't think that is problematic thinking and behavior?

[Mr Spock]

Would we be suggesting therapy for my lack of remorse for humping men in relationships? Or because I'm humping a man in a relationship (again)

 

I just don't see what a therapist would be able to tell me that I don't already know myself....

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Would we be suggesting therapy for my lack of remorse for humping men in relationships? Or because I'm humping a man in a relationship (again)

 

I just don't see what a therapist would be able to tell me that I don't already know myself....

 

if you don't think what you are doing is wrong, selfish and hurtful, then by all means continue doing it.

 

if you know why you have these types of relationships and you feel perfectly happy with it, then by all means continue doing it.

 

i just think you are going to end up hurting someone and then you are going to do a little hurting yourself for it.

[Mr Spock]

Slow down hoss, when I was discussing that I was more referring to my last relationship more than the situation I'm in now. Olivia's post struch a chord with me that's all.

 

Could I love this man? Yes. Will I bandy the word about? No. I personally don't like to toss that word around.

[HoldOn]

Would we be suggesting therapy for my lack of remorse for humping men in relationships? Or because I'm humping a man in a relationship (again)

 

How about both?

 

 

I just don't see what a therapist would be able to tell me that I don't already know myself....

 

Exactly, You don't see. That's why you need a therapist to tell you. Don't knock it until you've tried it. I have tried it because I have issues trusting people. Maybe I should stop reading this website because it just puts ideas in my head about what my bf could be doing!

[HoldOn]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Could I love this man? Yes. Will I bandy the word about? No. I personally don't like to toss that word around.

 

Well, I, for one, am releived that you are not trying to use "love" as an excuse for your actions. I hate all these posts where women claim they are soooooooo in love with their f*ck buddies. At least you're honest and realistic.