I can believe it

[Olivia_19742004]

Now I am starting to feel kind of bad that YOU all think I'm a sociopathic vampire who can't keep her legs shut....I think you'd like me if you ever met me.

 

Heh. Do you truly have an emotional attachment to this man? Sure you're not trying to have morality inflicted upon you in order for you to "feel" something? Trying to even the score in life by seeing just how far you can influence the emotions of someone that's not quite available?

 

On a side note..

 

Sacrificing everything one has to be with someone else isn't necessarily love. Sometimes it's just plain old infatuation. If this is what you're looking for as a sign that you've found the real thing you may find yourself disappointed in the future. Didn't you say that you had this before? Someone that would sacrifice it all to be with you? But..he's not with you? I'm assuming it was your choice since you said you could call him now and he'd be back (or something to that affect).

 

I'm being a little saucy with you. I don't see you the same as others do. I see an intelligent, cunning and aggressive woman and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. What I do think is it may be time to recognize the "not so nice" aspects of your personality in order to realize exactly what you're doing. We all have our "not so nice" aspects...

[Grinning Maniac]

Wow. What a thing to come back from vacation to. Haha.

 

I would never think such a seemingly intelligent woman would again do something so stupid. So much for female logic. On one hand, it's good that you aren't madly "in love" with this guy. That's such an old hat excuse, that I'm tired to death of hearing it. That, and the term "soulmate".

 

On the other hand, it DOES seem slightly sociopathic that you're completely willing to hurt this guy's SO and his kids just because you "like" him and think he's funny. Why exactly do you feel entitled to being able to sleep with this guy even though he is attached, and with kids no less(that it seems you have met)? Your motivation seems to solely be:

 

"...Because I want it, and if I want it, it should be MINE no matter what, because I am the prettiest princess. Tee hee."

 

Does that sort of mindset seem right to you? Me, me, me... I know it's cliche, but wouldn't you be a bit miffed if someone cheated on you, and that was the other person's only reason? Because they wanted to? As littleflowerpot said earlier, when people are in that b.s. cloud of "love" you can at least understand(though NOT condone) their actions, because "love" seems to make women, even the most rational ones, do some absolutely stupid ****. So, you can put the behavior in the same box as someone who is retarded peeing on your rug. It's wrong, but you grudgingly understand. You, on the other hand, do not have such excuses(as lame of an excuse as "love" is). So why exactly is this worth it to you?

 

Spock, from what it seems, you're smarter than this. Get out of this relationship. Stop putting out. He will move on. If you're some sort of attention whore, go and casually date a few single guys. Have fun. But this relationship is NOT healthy and I think you know it. Why in the world would you want to risk hurting other people over this? Because "you want it"?

 

 

PS: How great of a guy is your f*ck buddy anyway if he's willing to screw over his SO and kids over you anyway?

[jmargel]

I'm going to make some observations here and if you don't agree, then fine.. BTW you never answered my questions of the 'true' reason why you think you do this, except for your childhood:

 

- Maybe you like the competition, maybe you like the thrill of it all?

 

- Perhaps you know it'll never work out in the end and you like feeling the pity, or need to have that hurt done to you?

 

- Maybe your scared of a commitment, but like the feeling of being 'wanted' so you go this route.

 

But what I really think this is about is your desire to be in 'control'. You mentioned before how your hated your ex-mm in that he had this control over you. So perhaps you don't have much control in your life, which in your love-life you don't. When it comes to a OM, he has all the say on what happens. Whether he stays with his wife or goes with you, and even if he goes with you, how long would it take before you lose him to another woman?

 

Perhaps you were hurt really bad in the past by a non-married lover and you feel you need to be owed something. You don't. No one owes you anything. Answer me this, what if you were the married one, and having this done to you? What would you think of the OW? Be honest with your answer, not defensive.

 

Perhaps you like the attention and the drama. If you do, realize that you will & have been living a very lonely life. Why put yourself in the situation where you will be hurt once again? When you are 80 years old, living alone & realizing all the time wasted on these married men you will live in a world of regret. You really need to start doing positive things in your life. For your own well being.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Anyone? I'd really like to NOT become a serial husband f*cker here-I'm still looking for ANYTHING appealing that's single out there.....

 

Human beings are peculiar creatures. We are attracted by that which has become familiar. For whatever reason we can become perversely fixated on situations and/or personality types which remind us of past traumatic events in our lives. It's as if we are drawn subconsciously towards reliving the unpleasantness, or re-engaging with certain people who remind us of those others in our lives who may have withheld their love from us and/or caused emotional turmoil in the past. Sometimes, we become addicted to the drama…only feeling "alive" when we are challenged and pushed to the edge. And other times it’s a subconscious, yet futile attempt to relive some past event in hopes of resolving it…always fooling ourselves into believing that: "this time, I'll make it work. This time, I can control the outcome. This time, things will turn out differently."

 

For instance, a woman who has been physically abused and been lucky enough to escape her situation will often end up with another abuser in spite of her efforts to avoid the same type of man. Often, she's not even aware that her new Mr. Wonderful is as abusive as the last guy until some time down the road. She's confused about how she ended up in the same situation as before. After all, she was soooooo careful this time. She starts to think that fate is against her and chalks it up to her own bad luck. She becomes depressed, loses her self-esteem and begins to believe that she can't achieve anything better. That THIS is all life has in store for her. But what she doesn't realize, is that there was some underlying character trait that she was initially attracted to…something familiar about both men that subconsciously drew her.

 

Quite similarly, my therapist told me that I was at high risk of ending up with yet another alcoholic and/or drug user even after leaving my fifteen-year marriage. I grew up around alcoholics, my husband was chemically addicted as was my daughter and some of the friends in our social circle. I told him he was crazy…that after what I've been through, I knew what signs to look for and would NEVER end up in a relationship with anyone who was chemically addicted again. He told me that being "aware" and "knowing what to look for" wouldn't matter. That because I was attracted to a certain personality type that I could land another alcoholic; or someone who had the potential for addictive behavior without even realizing it.. Again…"Familiarity."

 

I was scared, and asked him how I was suppose to "avoid" ending up in the same kind of relationship if being conscious and aware of my choices wasn't enough. He explained; that while I may not be able control who I was attracted to…and may not be aware initially of any underlying problems…if and when I discovered them, I would have to exercise self-discipline and remove myself immediately if I was to avoid repeating the same unhealthy cycles over and over again. But learning to let go is something that doesn't come easy once one has become emotionally attached; or for those lacking will power or self-discipline to begin with. For me, my saving grace so far has been my renewed sense of self-preservation. My happiness, well-being and SANITY has become my new priority. But I don't suppose it would surprise my therapist at all to learn that I spent two years after our final session counseling other youths and their families who were dealing with similar problems. Just another way to relive my own past traumas and "fix" what I was never able to fix before? My inability to "let go" or stubborn determination to "make it right" once and for all?? …In retrospect, I think so, as embarrassing as it is to admit to myself. Indeed, my therapist was right. Old habits die hard, and once they become engrained, they can be impossible to break.

 

I don't think your situation is any different, Spock. You are attracted to a certain character of person, whether you are consciously aware of it or not. You may not even know the next guy you come across is married until it is too late and you are emotionally invested. But there is absolutely something "familiar" about each one that keeps drawling you back again and again. It's ALL YOU, whether you realize it or not. If you are genuinely happy and content reliving these situations, and have reconciled it with your conscious, then there is no need for rescue. But if you ever grow weary and frustrated rehashing the same ol' scenarios, and decide you want something different out of your life, then the only way to change the outcome is to exercise some self-discipline and remove yourself the moment you discover you have accidentally triggered that pesky re-wind button. No one else will ever be able to do that for you, or say anything that will help you finally reach an epiphany.

 

Again, it's ALL YOU.

[Mr Spock]

I AM attracted to confidence, and all of my lovers/SO's have always been extremely confident, or at least projected an air of it. Sometimes bordering on chauvanistic pig headedness. I like confrontation-not violence, but I'm certainly not afraid to speak my mind. I need someone who challenges me, I suppose in terms of dominance.

 

You keep asking how I would feel if the situations were reversed-I've BEEN on ALL sides of the triangle. Oddly enough, I'm NOT willing to hurt his SO and the kids. At all. As for control issues, I hated the control that I gave him-he had no idea how I'd obsess about the whole damn thing. At least, not until the end. I simply don't want to give anyone that kind of control again if they're not planning on reciprocating my feelings. Hence my refusual to be pegged into the "I can't help it I LOVE him" category. I do like him. I'll admit that. I don't think he's a "great" guy at ALL for sleeping with me, but I won't do the "How can I trust him if he's boinking ME " bit because it's tired, and overworn.

 

I don't feel I'm owed anything, I may be a bit of a princess but I'm not the prettiest princess....Yes I've met his kids, and his SO, many times. It was a new exercise in emotional control the first time I saw them after our first encounter. Those are some good words of advice Enigma-I will keep it in mind.

 

 

Olivia-I strive too, to recognize my own weaknesses and compensate for them. I used to try and change my behaviour to mainstream with the norm, but I felt I was sacrificing my personality so I stopped. I am myself, and I'm honest about it.

[Olivia_19742004]

I need someone who challenges me, I suppose in terms of dominance.

 

You're a strong woman. You need a strong man. I don't see any problem with this. The only issue I really see is that you seem to be equating attachment with challenge. The ultimate challenge for someone is to see if they can get the married/attached person. The ultimate test of one's power is to see if they can consume someone so much that they'd walk away from everything. But in the end would you want this? You would not be dominated at this point. You would not have your equal. You would have someone that was weaker than you because they were controlled by your influence.

 

It's like you need the challenge of getting someone that isn't available but once you have them you don't want them because that changes the dynamics. Once someone gives it all to be with you they are no longer as strong as you. They are at your whim and impossible to be your equal.

 

More guessing..who really knows what goes on in our mind

[Mr Spock]

It's like you need the challenge of getting someone that isn't available but once you have them you don't want them because that changes the dynamics. Once someone gives it all to be with you they are no longer as strong as you. They are at your whim and impossible to be your equal.

 

Oh not at all!! I was with my ex for over four years, and was truly in love-there were other factors that weren't apparent when we first met that I couldn't overcome, as well as mistakes that were made on both parts. The fact that he did choose me didn't make him weak in my eyes at all.

[Olivia_19742004]

Okay well then I guess it's safe to say you're just ****ed up. Welcome to the club

[Mr Spock]

ROTHFLMAO-I guess I am......

[Mr Spock]

Well, a bit of an update-I'm feeling pretty down today, not because of his spouse, or children, but because I think I've gone and become attached AGAIN. Dammit. I'm not sure....I think it just may be dissapointment that we didn't hook up again. Probably. It's for the best anyways, I'm sure others were becoming suspicious but I still feel dissapointed that an invitation was extended and he couldn't accept (consisted of I'm going home-are you coming?).

 

That's how my thought pattern works, I know!! Messed up. I'm dissapointed because he HAD TO GO HOME TO HIS FAMILY. And he had stopped to ask me what I was doing with that look on his face.

[RowanRavyn]

My head is spinning from reading this posting.

 

Who am I to read this and pass judgment on you? No one. I have been the "wife" and I have been the "other woman."

 

I have tried to do the casual sex thing, and in my brain it just didn't compute. I ended up hurting a really nice guy just because I was looking for a way to prove that I was worth while. I had just ended a relationship, I was hurting, nothing in my life was going right, and I needed to be found desirable. Well, we made it all the way to his bedroom, and I couldn't follow through. It died a quiet and painful death and I learned something valuable about myself.

 

I have had therapy. I got it on a sliding scale. What's nice is that there is a trained professional sitting across from you who is not going to judge you, who is going to help you figure out your options, and the hows and why of what's happening.

 

Let me tell you, I am with a wonderful man now, and as much as he loves me, no one loves me as much as I do. I am not a self-centered person. I have found my balance.

 

You can too. But you have to make the first steps toward doing it. There is a rush in being the chosen one. The one that he would turn to instead of "her". Its a real power trip.

 

The real power is in saying. This is MY body, MY sexuality, Mine mine mine, and I am not going to share it with anyone who isn't deserving.

[meanon]

I think I've gone and become attached AGAIN

 

You may have, you won't have been the first to think they can separate sex and love and discover they are wrong. The heart rarely listens to the head. It seems a little sudden, though. Maybe it is that you have lost the feeling that you are in control of the relationship and that is what you need to get the rush that Rowan described so well.

 

I think you'll sort this out soon, Spock. You have learned your OW lessons well. You won't let yourself go back to those dark, dependent days. You'll continue the relationship if it brings you mainly pleasure and end it if you can see the signs that grief is on the cards.

[kiababy]

Somehow I missed your posting about the new guy. Welcome back to the club.

[Mr Spock]

Yeah, it's definetly dissapointment from lack of contact, so it would be that I get no "rush" I suppose. It's not like I was turned down really-so what's bothering me so much? Not sure. Will have to think about it for a bit.....

[Gillian]

Just maybe you should seek some psychotherapy. Maybe you're a lesbian in disguise and what you really want is the woman this men live with and you have them through their husbands. Or maybe you need to work in your secret desire to always lose and not be "the chosen" for any man. Or just a bad ass bad bad Mr Spock up to no good. But if you wish it was different... Not judging you, not my thing the judging thing.

[Mr Spock]

No, I'm not sexually attracted to women-I feel a bit better. I think I also enjoy torturing myself, just a teensy bit. Got over the dissapointment-just bothers me he would stop and ASK me with that look what I planned on doing next. For the best anyways-I can't have him.

[sinner]

Just maybe you should seek some psychotherapy. Maybe you're a lesbian in disguise and what you really want is the woman this men live with and you have them through their husbands.

 

 

 

 

Not judging you, not my thing the judging thing.

 

 

Spock, I'm not judging you, but you're a psycho slut bitch from Hell. Now, I'm not judging, mind you.

 

Why are sexually assertive women always in need of psychotherapy? Sexually assertive men are lauded; sexually assertive women are treated. Quick, someone develop that morality pill...

[EnigmaXOXO]

Why are sexually assertive women always in need of psychotherapy?

 

I don't think its Spock's assertiveness or promiscuity that is in question here. There is nothing wrong with sexually aggressive women.

 

From what I've been able to gather, its more about her disastrous relationship choices and the type of men she's attracted to. I think if Spock were truly "happy" with the way things were going for her, she wouldn't be asking these questions of herself and others on this forum.

 

She doesn't need a "morality pill"…she needs some self-discovery and introspection before she can sort it all out for herself.

[moimeme]

but your statement of me jumping off the cliff and then come crawling back seems almost like a taunt

 

moderator's note: quotes w/o attributions are hard to follow in long threads!

 

 

I think a couple of people have hit a few points. You've been controlled before and you're damn well not going to be again, so you seem maybe to be hooked on 'control'. I still think you're trying to live up to a 'Sex & The City' image of a Samantha - a '**** 'em and dump 'em' sassy lass that everybody thinks is hot as hell and that Statler would give his eye teeth to worship. However, that show was fiction, as is this image of the devil-may-care woman who can screw without attachment. Everybody pays and you're paying again by getting attached. Because, despite your attempts to pretend otherwise, you do have a heart which will attempt to hook itself to another's heart.

 

Sexually assertive men are lauded

 

Only by frustrated, embittered married men who have persuaded themselves that 'sexually assertive' men are living high and fine. The rest of us figure that one of these days, they'll grow up. Or not.

[Matilda]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

....I think you'd like me if you ever met me.

 

I like you and I haven't ever met you.

 

Since you keep ignoring jmargel I"ll give it a try.

 

What are your goals for your life? What do you see yourself doing in 5 years, 10 years?

[Gillian]

Originally posted by sinner

Spock, I'm not judging you, but you're a psycho slut bitch from Hell. Now, I'm not judging,

 

Bc you think I consider being a psycho slut bitch from Hell a bad thing and I don't. It's just a psychological explanation, most likely unlikely since we don't really know each other too well.

[Mr Spock]

Spock, I'm not judging you, but you're a psycho slut bitch from Hell. Now, I'm not judging, mind you

 

 

Hey!!! That's a pretty funny label. I'm going to get that put on a flipping T shirt. Right along with "My body is a temple. On your knees...." I laugh at it too sinner-

"I'm not judging you, but you need therapy. Hardi har har..."

 

 

Matilda, I can barely think about tomorrow. Long term planning has never been my strong point.

 

 

Moimeme, I've only seen about 3 episodes of sex in the city-I probably WOULD identify most with Samantha, but I do remember she DID put herself out there...and found love in the end...

 

 

Anyways, it doesn't matter for the moment-dude is towing the line right now and focusing on his girlfriend and children, as he should be-I'm sure she's suspicious-how many times can someone come home after 2 and not be?

 

I won't mope. I'm simply going to keep moving forward to different things.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by sinner

Spock, I'm not judging you, but you're a psycho slut bitch from Hell. Now, I'm not judging, mind you.

 

Why are sexually assertive women always in need of psychotherapy? Sexually assertive men are lauded; sexually assertive women are treated. Quick, someone develop that morality pill...

 

you are mistaking being sexually assertive with being a selfish person that doesn't care who she hurts as long as she's having some fun. they are two vastly different people. i'm sorry that you are reading into this that it's just about being judgemental and overly moralistic because that's not where i am coming from. what bothers me is that spock is so adament to let us know that she's not feeling any guilt or bad feelings over his wife and kids at all. i find that discomforting and perhaps a little sadistic. and i get the feeling she thinks it's cute because she's being the "bad" girl. it is actually just being self-involved.

 

i'm extremely sexual and i'm very assertive with it. hell, i'll even admit to being bisexual and feel not one iota of shame about it.

 

spock, you might think i'm being too harsh or you might think i'm being a bitch. i hope you don't. i've interacted with you before and i think you are bright and funny. i just can't pat you on the back about this. no wonder so many of the wives out there think that all we women that have been the other women are devil-women bedecked in fredericks of hollywood sans a heart.

[sinner]

you are mistaking being sexually assertive with being a selfish person that doesn't care who she hurts as long as she's having some fun. they are two vastly different people.

 

I concede your point as valid, flowerpot. Excellent rejoinder.

[Mr Spock]

The thing is littleflowerpot, is that I'm NOT generally a selfish person-and I'm certainly not out to hurt anyone. As was told to me by someone I consider wise, if I connect with someone, I'm going to pursue that no matter what the status of said person is.

 

You seem to want me to have some kind of epiphany-it's not going to happen. I don't have guilt for the wife and kids because they're not hurting. There is a tremendous POTENTIAL for it, yes. Not once was I asking for pats on the back. You may get the feeling I think it's cute being the bad girl-I'm just ME. I don't posture, or pretend. As for self involvement, it would be fallacy for anyone to think their world doesn't revolve around themselves.

 

 

I'd also like to point out once more that the term wife is incorrect. I'm certainly not a "devil woman" with evil on my mind (points for naming the guy who sang that) I am VERY sexually assertive, but I was not the initiator in this situation. You want me to admit that what I'm doing is wrong, and ask for forgiveness. Today, I have no regrets. I have no problems admitting affairs are generally wrong, and that sneaking around behind your SO's back is hurtful. There is a difference between feeling guilt for hurting others and feeling guilt for one's actions, even when the two are directly related.