I can believe it

[EnigmaXOXO]

are you suggesting Spock is exaggerating or that she will end up being the type of person that tells tall tales? I believe her totally, in fact I think all of the OW on this forum are honest about their/our activities. We have no need to lie here, we're all anonymous. If I'm wrong let me know.

 

Kia, it goes much deeper than becoming someone "who tells tall tales." If ONLY it were that simple.

 

My fear for Spock is that she will become so good at shutting off her emotions, that she'll loose the ability to connect to that aspect of herself again. On one hand, we can view her ability to walk away from one affair after another (with little or no emotional fallout) as a "strength". Something many people in similar situations may admire. But in time, practice makes perfect and soon her "strengths" could become her greatest downfall.

 

Will she become totally incapable of sustaining a healthy, emotionally-invested relationship for the long haul?…Or unable to even recognize (or appreciate) a GOOD relationship partner even if he bit her on the ars?

 

And how about Spock's relationship with herself? Is she truly the secure, confident and happy-go-lucky person that she projects? Or might that be a smoke screen to compensate for the fact that she feels something is lacking in her life ---some internal void she is trying to fill --- a self-esteem boost that can only be fueled by pursuing relationships with unavailable men. Could her thought process be: "I am only as strong as my greatest challenge?" And if so --- what will this do to her self-esteem over time if she continues to invest herself in relationships where she is already predestined to end up the loser?

 

Someone on this forum once quoted: "The definition of insanity is when we keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again, expecting different results."

 

I concur!

[sinner]

Except from those males who look to justify their affairs by the old saw horse: "boys will be boys" … or would rather engage in debates pitting "morality" against "hedonism" as a means to avoid personal accountability for the lack of self-control regarding their own actions.

 

Your opinions, Enigma, allow no debate. They are absolute. In your world, no healthy, loving, well adjusted, emotionally mature individual can ever have an affair. Healthies don't cheat. To cheat is to compensate for something missing. To give love or the desire for fun as a reason is simply an excuse for an immature lack of self-control. That's not argument, my friend, that's an indictment.

 

The interesting thing about Spock's posts is that she does not apologize. Nor does she passively accept being judged. She rejects the bedrock beliefs and biases that most have about people in affairs. She refuses to subscribe to an absolutist moral paradigm that condemns as sick or evil all who have affairs. And you know what? Spock is fu#cking right.

 

This is not a discussion, debate or argument. Your side, Enigma, will tolerate none of that. In real life, ouside of this message board, there exist real people who have love affairs and enjoy every damn moment. Love is not always cabined. Nor do all people in affairs have self-esteem or ego issues. Dime store psychologizing is not argument.

 

If Spock has taught us anything it is that healthy people can, without the need to apologize, have affairs and enjoy them, too. It's Spock's attitude, more than her behavior, that so inflames LoveShack conventional thinking. For that, I am grateful.

[EnigmaXOXO]

To cheat is to compensate for something missing.

 

So, you are trying to say that you disagree with the obvious?

 

What exactly did you feel was "missing" in your marriage (or in yourself) when you chose to step outside of your relationship to have an affair? Do you honestly feel you were in a good frame of mind at the time? Or did you "choose" to do what you did simply for the pursuit of personal pleasure?

 

And what was "gained" or "lost" after the dust finally settled? Did you finally find whatever it was you felt you were missing? Are you any happier now with yourself…or your married life than you were then?

 

I know you admire Spock. You see in her a resemblance of yourself. But would you advocate that she follow in your footsteps and join you in your marital discontent?

 

Or might you do the UN-selfless thing and wish something a little better for her?

 

If Spock has taught us anything it is that healthy people can, without the need to apologize, have affairs and enjoy them, too. It's Spock's attitude, more than her behavior, that so inflames LoveShack conventional thinking. For that, I am grateful.

 

Of course you are grateful! To have another echo your views means you are one less person short of remaining the minority. None of us want to feel as if we are alone. But only time will tell whether Spock's outlook will prove beneficial or detrimental to her emotional well-being. It is my personal belief that if she continues on this path she will become as embittered and cynical about relationships and "love" as those who walked down that road before her.

[EnigmaXOXO]

 

Oh…and I would also like to add that I am grateful for the challenging points of view which you add to this forum. Particularly when singing the praises of the many women would enter into affairs with married men without apology or regret.

 

I only hope, Sinner, that if/when your own wife reveals that she has also engaged in an unapologetic affair…that you would applaud her "sexual assertiveness" as well. I would be sorely disappointed if your staunch point of view suddenly changed and you did not rally the cause of your own wife (or daughter) as you have so selflessly done for the other females on this forum.

 

As you're already aware…I just hate those double-standards!

[kiababy]

Enigma, I beg to differ with one of your statements:

 

On one hand, we can view her ability to walk away from one affair after another (with little or no emotional fallout) as a "strength".

 

Spock did not walk away from her last MM 'with little or no emotional fallout' - she was DEVASTATED!!! Did you guys not read her posts back in June? She was a basket case after the end of that relationship. Right or wrong - I can't afford to make any moral judgements - Spock needs to feel good about this relationship whatever her motives seem to be.

 

Sinner - I love your unique perspective on people that have affairs.

[kiababy]

By the way....Spock is not like a lot of the other OW - I believe she had a happy upbringing, no abandonment issues.

[sinner]

Sinner - I love your unique perspective on people that have affairs.

 

 

Thanks, kia. Needless to say my "unique perspective" has endeared me to many on this site.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by sinner

Your opinions, Enigma, allow no debate. They are absolute. In your world, no healthy, loving, well adjusted, emotionally mature individual can ever have an affair. Healthies don't cheat. To cheat is to compensate for something missing. To give love or the desire for fun as a reason is simply an excuse for an immature lack of self-control. That's not argument, my friend, that's an indictment.

 

The interesting thing about Spock's posts is that she does not apologize. Nor does she passively accept being judged. She rejects the bedrock beliefs and biases that most have about people in affairs. She refuses to subscribe to an absolutist moral paradigm that condemns as sick or evil all who have affairs. And you know what? Spock is fu#cking right.

 

This is not a discussion, debate or argument. Your side, Enigma, will tolerate none of that. In real life, ouside of this message board, there exist real people who have love affairs and enjoy every damn moment. Love is not always cabined. Nor do all people in affairs have self-esteem or ego issues. Dime store psychologizing is not argument.

 

If Spock has taught us anything it is that healthy people can, without the need to apologize, have affairs and enjoy them, too. It's Spock's attitude, more than her behavior, that so inflames LoveShack conventional thinking. For that, I am grateful.

 

do you ever stop making things "us against them"? it's not about overally moralistic people versus free-love folks. there are no absolutes. we all makes mistakes. i make 'em. until recently, i was the OW and i'm still freaking heart broken and crying about it. (BUT THERE WERE NO KIDS IN THE EQUATION)

 

btw, you rejected the idea that "to cheat is to compensate for something missing," but you're wrong. to cheat is to compensate for something that's missing. there is no noble reason for cheating and "to give love or the desire for fun" is a piss poor reason to cheat on your significant other. give love to your partner. have fun in other ways that isn't cheating your partner out of something that is hers/his. if you don't feel that monogamy is for you, get out of your relationship and don't subject your partner to crap she isn't even aware of. even though i made all kinds of excuses for being with the guy when he had a gf, it never made it okay. he was still a cheat who cheated a person that had every right to expect some loyalty from him and it was a lack of integrity on my part to be a party to it. but assigning blame doesn't really anyone and i know it doesn't help spock. however, she came here to talk about it and i'm talking about my thoughts on it. when we come here and tell our stories we are opening ourselves up to other's opinions (and it's what we seek if we are honest unless we just want someone to tell us it's okay to validate it for us). sometimes honest opinions will not be the validation we might be seeking.

 

yeah, it's her attitude that shocks me. would i be as shocked if it were a man? no, you're right. i wouldn't. because i am a bit cynical (hey, i'm working on it). i kinda expect a lot of men to have this attitude because it's been accepted for so freaking long that a lot of guys don't even think they're betraying people they promised to be loyal to. see, a lot of men do this because they've been told for so damn long that they can. somehow for them, that excuses them and they don't even give it a second thought. but it's still ****ing selfish. it's still pretty heinous. yeah, it bugs me that a woman is allowing herself the same excuses that men have been using for years. it's steps BACK for women not steps FORWARD. because whether you like it or not, in life there are things that are morally reprehensible. to cheat without conscience seems a bit sociopathic in the textbook term of the word. and to get off on thinking it's somehow more modern and chic to "act like a guy" is not a good excuse at all!

 

i cheat because it's fun? what the hell is that? does that mean no one can expect anyone to be loyal anymore? can no one trust anyone anymore to be honest? hey, you know what? i like the manolo blahniks i saw in the window yesterday but i don't have the money. can i just TAKE them because it would be fun to have those shoes? do i bear no responsibility at all?

 

you can say all you want that it's healthy to cheat on people but it will never make it so. and you know who cheaters cheat the most? themselves. your robbing your integrity, your honesty, your loyalty to people you claim you love. no matter what excuses you wanna make for it, it will never make it healthy. and some of us maybe jumped too quickly on the therapy thing because therapy sure as hell helps us when we find ourselves repeatedly caught up in the same negative patterns. and some of us jump on the therapy thing too quickly because we would rather see a person as needing help to discover the roots of why they cheat (or keep getting involved with people that are unavailble over and over) rather than to think they do so just because they have no conscience or compassion for other people.

 

hey, y'all can say i come on too strong but i'm telling you it's because i'm a very passionate woman. i'm also very headstrong. the fact that she sleeps with a guy that cheats on his family isn't the part that bothers me about her so much as it is that she doesn't care who might get hurt in the process. THAT is the part that seems borderline sociopathic to me. so you're right about me as regards to her attitude vs. her behavior, it's the attitude that sucks so bad.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by kiababy

Enigma, I beg to differ with one of your statements:

 

 

 

Spock did not walk away from her last MM 'with little or no emotional fallout' - she was DEVASTATED!!! Did you guys not read her posts back in June? She was a basket case after the end of that relationship. Right or wrong - I can't afford to make any moral judgements - Spock needs to feel good about this relationship whatever her motives seem to be.

 

Sinner - I love your unique perspective on people that have affairs.

 

kia, why does she need to feel good about it? particularly if she eventually becomes as devastated again as she was before? that makes absolutely no sense! i know she may be your friend but is that the advice you wanna give a friend you care about? at least now she says there is no emotional attachement. why get deeper and deeper into something that if it continues much longer will CERTAINLY devastate someone (if not her than the gf and the kids)?

 

sinner's unique perspective isn't very unique when you consider all the people that have affairs and then tell themselves it's not messed up to cheat on a spouse or partner just because it's pleasurable to them. how do you find that unique. and i'm seriously not trying to be a bitch here but i honestly don't understand how you think his perspective on it is any different than most other cheaters.

[kiababy]

Littleflowerpot - I guess I wanted to say that Spock needs to feel good right now, she's been hurting for a while. I know she picked an inappropriate partner, she knows it too . I haven't even offered her any advice - actually I did but that was in a private message. You guys can debate the rights and wrongs, this is the situation she is IN.

 

I like Sinner's perspective because he's saying everyone isn't necessarily suffering from some mental disorder! In this Oprah/Dr. Phil society, everyone seems to be suffering from something.

 

Yes, I acknowledge my own behaviour is probably a product of a truly awful childhood, but that's just me.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by kiababy

Littleflowerpot - I guess I wanted to say that Spock needs to feel good right now, she's been hurting for a while. I know she picked an inappropriate partner, she knows it too . I haven't even offered her any advice - actually I did but that was in a private message. You guys can debate the rights and wrongs, this is the situation she is IN.

 

I like Sinner's perspective because he's saying everyone isn't necessarily suffering from some mental disorder! In this Oprah/Dr. Phil society, everyone seems to be suffering from something.

 

Yes, I acknowledge my own behaviour is probably a product of a truly awful childhood, but that's just me.

 

okay, here's another misconception i'd LOVE to clear up. therapy is not primarily for people with mental disorders although many people with mental disorders go to therapy in conjunction with psychiatry and medication for their disorders. i attend therapy and i assure you i have no mental disorder other than a desire to better understand my own behavior and the choices i make that effect my life. i am not mentally ill because i attend therapy. i'd like to say i don't understand why you and sinner think that seeking therapy implies insanity but unfortunately it's such a common misconception that a lot of misinformed people still believe it. it sure as hell chaps my hide though.

 

as for oprah and phil? what the hell is wrong with them? i don't hear either one of them suggesting that anyone with problems must be insane. i think you're listening to other people say that. have you ever watched dr. phil? that man is a hard ass! he would probably tell you that too many people use the whole mental disorders thing as a cop out. he advocates getting to know yourself better and personal responsibility more than suggestions of mental insanity for anyone that behaves badly or stupidly.

 

you see, therapy offers INSIGHT. it is not a cure for INSANITY.

 

btw, i had a horrendously dysfunctional childhood too. you name it, it's probably there. molestations, neglect, abandonment, abuse, witnessing crazy people that called themselves my parents acting like stupid little kids. and for most of my life i thought i handled it just fine. i was the go-getter in my family. i coped and carried on like a trooper. i was the parental figure for my parents! in the meantime, i lost ME. i never realized how it all effected me until it came crashing down on me two years ago and i had to step back and say what the f**k happened here? so for me, therapy is just a way for me to go back and look at the mess that was my childhood and figure out how it effected me all my life and then try to make steps to change it. hell, sometimes i WISH i could claim insanity so i could take the easy way out and NOT work on the problem that was my life. but i have a responsibility to me. see that's what therapy is for me.

 

i think i know what you mean about spock. you don't want her to feel hurt. no one really wants that. not unless they are sadistic sob's, that is. but just as we don't want her to be hurt (and she probably WILL be eventually because there are very few good outcomes for affairs), we don't want the kids and the other woman to be hurt either. we are just trying to ask her to take a look at this situation a little more and perhaps avoid needless pain. hey, i know that sounds preachy of me and i re-read and re-read it again to be sure i meant it absolutely and i do so i'm just gonna post it and say devil may care and hit "submit reply."

 

ha ha! devil may care my ass! i edited because i mispelled and it made me look like a retard!

[EnigmaXOXO]

Enigma, I beg to differ with one of your statements:

 

Spock did not walk away from her last MM 'with little or no emotional fallout' - she was DEVASTATED!!! Did you guys not read her posts back in June? She was a basket case after the end of that relationship.

 

Yep. She was a basket case the first time. Seems she got a little better at disconnecting from her emotions the second time. What will happen after the third time? The fourth? Will she finally become more proficient at building her walls of denial and snuffing out her own emotional wants and needs? Is she destined to become "second"… even to herself?

 

Right or wrong - I can't afford to make any moral judgements - Spock needs to feel good about this relationship whatever her motives seem to be.

 

Here we go with that "morality" and "judgment" thing again.

 

It isn't about Spock finding a way to "feel good" about her failing relationships with unavailable married men. It's about Spock finding a way to be happy with "herself" outside the confines of a relationship. Once she discovers the key to that…she won't have to worry about becoming immune to the pain, because "surviving" pain will no longer be her motive or objective. It's self-destructive. Instead, she'll seek fulfillment and contentment from more fulfilling friendships and relationships…and avoid those people and situations who would disrupt her emotional well-being as if her very life depended on it.

 

It's about "emotional maturity" and has nothing at all to do with one's age, personal philosophy or level of intelligence.

[kiababy]

Littleflowerpot, I don't know where you got the idea that I think therapy is strictly for curing insanity - I've been to therapy myself. I ironically I didn't stay long enough to find out about my deeper issues so it didn't help me. I'm sure if I had time to shop around I could find a therapist that I can relate to. But I don't

 

 

Enigma, obviously emotional maturity is not my striong point - I'm all about feeling good right now.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by kiababy

Littleflowerpot, I don't know where you got the idea that I think therapy is strictly for curing insanity - I've been to therapy myself. I ironically I didn't stay long enough to find out about my deeper issues so it didn't help me. I'm sure if I had time to shop around I could find a therapist that I can relate to. But I don't

 

 

Enigma, obviously emotional maturity is not my striong point - I'm all about feeling good right now.

 

i apologize if you didn't suggest it but here is where i got the idea you thought that:

 

you said, "I like Sinner's perspective because he's saying everyone isn't necessarily suffering from some mental disorder! In this Oprah/Dr. Phil society, everyone seems to be suffering from something." sinner has indicated several times that he admires spock because she can have affairs without guilt and that any suggestions we might have given her to try therapy was us just calling her ill. he's wrong, of course. i don't think anyone called her mentally ill because we suggested she might benefit from therapy.

 

i wish you would try again on the therapy thing. i think it might really be a good for you. i know you don't think you have time to find a therapist you could relate to but i just think of it as time lost when it's something that will be beneficial for you, ya know? well, maybe for myself i should say. i look at it as all the time i lost because i thought i didn't have time to find a therapist i could relate to when i should have just made myself important enough to MAKE the time. btw, it helped me a lot when i decided that i would no longer see male therapists (and no i'm not gender biased). it was just impossible for me to feel comfortable talking to a man about some of my molest issues.

[kiababy]

For the record, I really don't see Spock as someone who needs a therapist....I figured she just needs time to get over the MM who caused her so much pain, and move on to the next thing. The 'next thing' could be anything, not necessarily a relationship.

 

Enigma, when I mention morality, what I mean is - isn't the WHOLE issue with extramarital relationships wrapped up in concepts of right and wrong?

 

Littleflowerpot,I personally have no interest in seeing a therapist right now. I don't want to revisit my childhood anymore.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by kiababy

For the record, I really don't see Spock as someone who needs a therapist....I figured she just needs time to get over the MM who caused her so much pain, and move on to the next thing. The 'next thing' could be anything, not necessarily a relationship.

 

Enigma, when I mention morality, what I mean is - isn't the WHOLE issue with extramarital relationships wrapped up in concepts of right and wrong?

 

Littleflowerpot,I personally have no interest in seeing a therapist right now. I don't want to revisit my childhood anymore.

 

to each his own. i didn't want to revisit my childhood for a long time either but then i realized it was revisiting me over and over again but i just couldn't see it for the fog.

 

and hell yes she needs to get over the MM that caused her so much pain but do you really think jumping from the kettle to the flame is gonna work out better for this time?

[kiababy]

and hell yes she needs to get over the MM that caused her so much pain but do you really think jumping from the kettle to the flame is gonna work out better for this time?

 

Of course I hoped she would not be back in the same situation, if she's happy - she says she is - then let her feel happy. What do I hope will happen? I hope she makes the decision that this relationship is not for her and ends it on her own terms. That's all.

 

The childhood thing is terrible and keeps coming up like .....like....acid reflux....but I'm about to be laid off, my alimony ends in January (in other words I have to replace not one - but essentially TWO jobs), and I have a mortgage to pay. I can't deal with my crappy childhood right now, and I sure as hell am not going to leave my MM now. I need him more than ever. I don't need to be 'fixed' right this second.

[littleflowerpot]

if she's really happy, i certainly don't believe what i think about it will affect her in the least. she's already said she doesn't care.

 

if you don't think you want or need therapy then i wish you luck and i'm sure you know what's best for you. i don't think, however, that i'm gonna get "fixed" so much as i might gain a little insight which might just bring me a little peace.

[overseas2004]

Its really interesting to me that you understand yourself really really well Spock yet you just refuse to control yourself. I know you can but you wont because in reality it feels sooooooooooo good doesn't it. And you don't want that feeling to go away now do you. NOt ready to give up the quick fix for the endless high??

 

You will keep hitting the wall until you do. I did until I finally had the courage to stop being so selfish and to actually start looking after my interests and not my momentary passions.

 

Good luck.

[overseas2004]

And to all of YOU out there who think therapy is SO GREAT....

 

All Spock needs is a backbone. The last thing she needs is a expensive therapist who is probably ten times crazier than she is.

 

Regards to all you therapy loving people

 

Overseas2004

[EnigmaXOXO]

Of course I hoped she would not be back in the same situation, if she's happy - she says she is - then let her feel happy.

 

Where, in ANY of Spock's posts did you get the idea that she was "happy?"

 

Go back Kia, and read the first post that started this thread. Particularly the part that reads:

 

I can feel myself starting to slide into the same downward spiral I did last time.

 

Then, go back and re-read Spock's very first posts on this forum. The one's filled with so much anger, rage, jealousy and hurt over the first married man who used her up then tossed her to the side.

 

Do yourself a favor and go back and re-read your own posts, Kia. THEN try to convince me, once more, that this is just one big love fest and that everyone involved is genuinely "happy."

 

please help me....I should have ended it ages ago but I feel helpless and totally out of control…

 

I want to be in a relationship but don't know how to love anybody…

 

I want a normal life, I want to actually be able to go out with a man that I care about and not have to hide. I hate sneaking around…

 

My life is still so very, very complicated…

 

This is crazy. I'm crazy…

 

This morning my MM said to me: "I've just accepted the fact that my wife and I have a terrible sex life, I'm so happy I have you..." Gee, isn't that great for me? I've just made things so much easier for him…

 

I've figured out how to be the perfect mistress...but in doing so I've given all of my power over to him...

 

I want to say goodbye and have about 100 goodbye speeches in my head -I feel like the biggest fool, all this time I was so very careful, doing everything in my power to make sure that he wouldn't get into any trouble because of me. And what does he do? He goes out and picks up a stranger! GRRRRRRRR! He's careless and stupid and he WILL be caught again. This time I'm not sticking around to be his shoulder to cry on. I'm so ready to kick him out of my life....I just don't have the strength or the will to do it…

 

…and there's MORE! Perhaps my interpretation of "happiness" is just different than some folks?

 

You know, you two gals remind me so much of my old friend. Trying so hard to convince the world that everything's "okay" in a desperate attempt to hide what's really going on. Thinking, "if I can somehow convince everyone else that I'm holding it together, than maybe I'll believe it too." The problem is, you're not fooling anyone. Not even yourself. It's one thing to put on a happy face for other people…especially when you're trying so hard to prove a point. But lying to yourself?

 

In my book, self-deception has to be the biggest betrayal of all. If you can't even be honest with yourself, than how will you ever learn to live your life honestly, or even accept honesty from those who care enough to give it to you?

 

Look---I really like you two ladies. Perhaps because you remind me so much of some of my own sad, but once loveable friends. But if you honestly don't "want" or "need" any help or feedback (although you keep asking for it…LOL), than it would be pointless for any of us to waste any more time and energy trying force-feed it to you.

 

However, I absolutely wish you the very best and hope that one day you finally rediscover what it truly means to be "happy," content and at total peace with your lives. You only get one…ONE single chance to leave your lasting impression upon the world and all those in it who you touch. So try and make it count for something!

[meanon]

Spock:

Oh Meanon, the things I will tell you when I'm ready to.....

 

I can't wait

[Mr Spock]

Spock, what I am most curious about is why and how you have become a married-man magnet. There has to be something about the way you present yourself (whether intentional or not) that tells them that you are open to these kinds of advances. Do these men travel in the same social circle?...Are they all employees where you work? Do you think it may have anything to do with the reputation you have inadvertently created for yourself??

 

I think it's wonderful that you take pride in your sexuality. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a sexy, vivacious and confidant woman. But my worry is that sexuality is ALL you are projecting about yourself. That is all fine and dandy if your self-worth is all wrapped up in how "desirable" the opposite sex finds you. But unless you portray some genuine "substance" or depth of character; unless you demand "respect" from yourself and those around you, none of these men will ever see the potential of the real human-being hiding behind the lusty façade.

 

Oh sure, they'll be HAPPY to take (or use) what you offer up for free. You'll attract hordes of desperate, embittered unhappily married men looking for validation and an ego boost by the droves. But you may find that single men, who are looking for something more permanent and "solid"…are avoiding you like the plague. If "sex" and a brief "connection" is ALL you want out of your romantic trysts, than that's exactly what you'll get! But these men will never respect you. They will never "love" you in the way you deserve to be loved, and they will never consider you someone worthy of dedicating the rest of their lives to. Men like to f*ck the "bad girls"…but they don't want to bring them home to the family, marry them, or raise children with them. Their sexual "openness" becomes a liability when one is seeking a loyal and stable partner…and few men would want to risk their own reputations by wedding the gal that all their buddies and work colleagues have already tapped.

 

I'd like to hear from any male (married or single) on this forum who might argue otherwise.

 

As unfair as these gender bias double-standards are…they still exist. You'll be hard pressed to remove it from the equation even in this day and age. Similarly, you can not remove "married" from the relationship equation no matter how much you "wish" it were so. Whether you are the married spouse, or the secret lover on the side, the MARRIGE is the nucleolus by which everyone else's lives revolve. You can't close your eyes and ignore its existence, or "wish" it away by declarations of emotional emancipation. Unlike "love" and "lust"…it is not just a fleeting emotion that dissolves on a whim every time we experience a bad day or a mood swing. It is REAL; it is tangible and survives even without "love" or "lust." To rely on fantasy or "wishful thinking"…to convince ourselves otherwise…can result in disastrous consequence. The loss of family. The loss of home. The loss of reputation with family, friends and children. The loss of security and financial stability.

 

You may be the best lay he's ever had. You may be the new caring confidant he can talk to because the other people in his life have grown weary of his whining. You may be the "fun" party girl he always wanted to hook up with when he was young, but was never "kool" enough to land. You may remind him of his youth…those player days gone by and stroke his fading male ego. But what man would gladly sacrifice all those things it took him a lifetime to earn so he could gallop off into the sunset with you? Particularly when you are already meeting all of his expectations without having any of your own.

 

I had a friend much like you, Spock. She was witty, intelligent, COMPULSIVE and portrayed to those around her an image of a woman who confidant and capable. She was a hoot to be around, I admit! I called her a friend for over 20 years. But as we grew up together, I watched something happen to Bridget. Inside, she was not as "confident" as she portrayed. She was a few pounds overweight, and in spite of her efforts to improve her outside appearance, she was never happy with her "outer" image.

 

She overcompensated for this by over exaggerating…even "lying" about her accomplishments and the people in her life. She could blow a story out of proportion like you wouldn't believe!! Over time, she began to believe her own lies, and in a desperate attempt to get attention…ANY kind of attention…she became a serial adulterous in spite of being married THREE times. If any man so much as "smiled" at her, she was all over him like a pizza at a weight-watchers convention. She took pride in bragging about how "she was able to think like a man…Love em and leave em." She would enter into one affair after another…one marriage after another…and was never, ever happy.

 

Eventually, she got so good at turning off her emotions that she became "hard" and uncaring. I watched the person I grew up with turn cold, calculating, dishonest and selfish. Incapable of expressing a genuine emotion or kind deed unless it served some benefit to her. She began to systematically make casualties of all the lives around her---work colleges, families, friends. It was all about "HER." In short, she became toxic to both herself and everyone around her. No sympathy, no empathy, a complete inability to see anyone or anything beyond "herself." She justified and made excuses for her behavior with as much imagination and flair as she used when reciting one of her "tall tales." Convinced, if SHE believed it, than so would everyone else. Until I finally convinced her to seek therapy, we were BOTH miserable!!

 

Live you life as you see fit, Spock. It's yours alone. But please, please don't be like my old friend and destroy whatever's left of the genuine person beneath in your desperate attempt to make a worthy place for yourself in this life. Hang onto your integrity, your values, your virtue, and your ability to FEEL (for others as well). It's the only thing of any real value in this life…the only memory that's left of you when you're gone…and the ONLY thing that makes you uniquely "human."

 

Holy crap. Take a couple of days off loveshack and I've got VOLUMES to read. I'm at work, and hungover, so forgive my typos.

 

Enigma, I understand your POV and your concerns-I'm not a big fan of pathological liars myself, and I don't feel the need to invent tales.

 

This MM and myself are VERY similar in terms of personality, modus operandi (is that right?)sense of humour. I do think you have a valid point about not wanting to take the "bad girls" home to family and have kids with them-contrary to popular belief I am not a "bad girl". I'm myself. I make no excuses for my behaviour. I actually ended up with him last night-his idea.

 

I have vast amounts of compassion. Vast. I'm too tired to spell out a list of my recent good deeds-maybe later. I'm in no danger of turning into an empty shell of a person.

 

Whether you are the married spouse, or the secret lover on the side, the MARRIGE is the nucleolus by which everyone else's lives revolve. You can't close your eyes and ignore its existence, or "wish" it away by declarations of emotional emancipation. Unlike "love" and "lust"…it is not just a fleeting emotion that dissolves on a whim every time we experience a bad day or a mood swing. It is REAL; it is tangible and survives even without "love" or "lust."

 

Marriage is not an emotion. It is a contract. And by the amount of people that are getting in and out of that contract every year, I'd say it doesn't survive well without love, or lust.

 

I also don't fall over every tom dick and harry who throws a lurid glance my way. I have to connect with that person.

[kiababy]

Enigma, OWWWWWWW!!!!! I'm still pulling the thorns out. I forgot about all that stuff Well....in the meantime I've gotten over his 'incident'....I'm at the point where I'm actually picking him up in the middle of the night from wherever he calls me from (read my last posts in my thread 'This might be nothing but...) and for all intents and purposes.....I'm happy. O.K. I'm not 'happy' but I love him and I'm not ready to leave.

 

I have picked up my dating life where I left off, but having to go rescue my lover in the middle of the night definitely cramps my style!!!! (my kids have been away so relax ladies)

 

I acknowledge I started off wanting help. But I'm not ready to use it. Sometimes we OW want help and advice, but maybe more often than not we just want.....support. This is like group therapy, no?

[Pocky]

I have to connect with that person

 

Think a connection is the missing puzzle piece? Makes me think of when people say someone else completes them...